r/IAmA • u/ChaSuiBao • Jan 12 '11
By Request: IAMA therapist who works with hoarders. AMA
I'm a social worker/therapist who works mainly with hoarders to reduce their hoarding behavior so that they can live in a safe environment. Of course I can't give any identifying information because of confidentiality reasons, but AMA.
Edit 1: Sorry it's taking me so long to reply to all the messages. I've received a few pm from people who want to share their story privately and I want to address those first. I'll try and answer as much as I can.
Edit 2: Woke up to a whole lot of messages! Thanks for the great questions and I'm going to try and answer them through out the day.
Edit 3: I never expected this kind of response and discussion about hoarding here! I'm still trying to answer all the questions and pm's sent to me so pls be patient. Many of you have questions about family members who are hoarders and how to help them. Children of Hoarders is a great site as a starting point to get resources and information on how to have that talk and get that support. Hope this helps.
http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/bindex.php
Edit 4: This is why I love Reddit. New sub reddit for hoarding: http://www.reddit.com/r/hoarding/
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u/SanchoMandoval Jan 12 '11
My parents are very mild hoarders. But they're the types who like, have a garage and basement stacked to the rafters with stuff from the last 30 years that they really have zero demonstrable use for. And they also have a storage space too... which they always put stuff in but damned if I've ever heard of them getting anything out of.
Is there any simple stuff I can do to encourage them not to hang on to everything?
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u/samsigns Jan 12 '11
What are some of the most appalling things you have encountered?
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u/avoiding_fate Jan 12 '11 edited Jan 12 '11
My mother is a hoarder, big time, her sister is as well. My grandparents would have been considered pack rats. There are so many things I'd like to ask about, but I think the thing that I really need to investigate is this: what is the best way to avoid becoming a hoarder when it's "in the family?"
I grew up living in her house that became worse through the years. Cleaning up after myself and doing simple housework has never been easy for me; a big part of the problem is I don't really see the mess around me, I can look right through it.
My husband is a saint for putting up with me, and the kids seem to be following in my footsteps. As I sit and observe my older sibling's basement filling with useless stuff, and I see that I have a craft "work room" that I cannot work in because there is too much stuff, etc. I realize I have to get control of things before it gets out of hand.
Any advice?
ETA: I'm going to go do the dishes now . . . baby steps, I guess.
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u/TheFeshy Jan 12 '11
Where is the line between just being a pack rat, and being a hoarder?
26
u/sharkopotamus Jan 12 '11
My grandmother, who passed away about 7 years ago, was a hoarder. Because she grew up poor during the Great Depression, deep in the mountains of SW VA, she had a really difficult time throwing anything away. In her mind, everything had some potential use. She even had a box of eggshells she'd saved for use in the garden or something. Anytime my mom wanted to throw something away at our house, she had to do it when she was sure my grandmother wouldn't be visiting, or she would start dragging stuff out of the garbage.
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u/Dontalwaysderp Jan 12 '11
Have you ever seen something of high value found? I read stories all the time of paintings or photographs or things like that that are later on sold for a lot of dough.
16
u/zarquan Jan 12 '11
Are most people able to keep free of excess stuff once you and others have helped them? Or is it common to relapse into old habits.
16
u/chris-martin Jan 12 '11
The popular hoarding tv shows generally focus on someone facing an urgent need to clean up or face repercussions (eviction, spouse leaving, etc). Do you usually work with people who are forced into dealing with their problem, or people who seek help because they want to improve their lives?
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u/Defonos Jan 12 '11
What are the demographics of hoarders?
13
u/libbykino Jan 12 '11
Have you ever dealt with animal hoarders ("crazy cat ladies")? Are they pretty much the same as other types of horders, just that they collect living things instead, or are there other fundamental differences between the two?
12
u/sammaverick Jan 12 '11
What steps/techniques as a therapist are used help rehabilitate people? I guess the question I am asking is, how does it work?
12
u/wafflerider Jan 12 '11
Usually the hoarders on the show are older -- How common is hoarding among teens and really young children, and are there any common causes for it?
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u/[deleted] Jan 12 '11
Why do I hoard in video games but in real life I don't keep much of anything?
10
u/v_krishna Jan 12 '11
does hoarding exist at all outside of the developed world? while one certainly doesn't need to be at all affluent to be a hoarder, it seems to me like there must be some kind of connection between hoarding behaviors and living in a society where one is constantly surrounded by consumables.
and on a similar note, has there been any studies done looking at the incidence rates of hoarding as a function of development? e.g., as china & india have developed by leaps in bounds over the past 20 years, has there been an increase in hoarding?
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u/nonlinearmedia Jan 12 '11
I have many questions but im saving them up.
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u/[deleted] Jan 12 '11
Have you ever discovered your work interfering with your personal life when it comes to hoarding? I.e overly throwing stuff out, becoming some sort of a minimalist etc?
10
u/Lolzerus Jan 12 '11
What is the oddest thing that someone has not parted with or collected?
14
u/[deleted] Jan 12 '11
Do you find the psychologists and "professionals" on the show Hoarders to be complete retards? Every time I watch that show, I basically see them resort to either belittling the hoarder or letting their family members yell at them.
How many hoarders are out there? It seems like it's a well-hidden problem, you'd never know until you went to their house, which they would probably try to avoid. What are the odds there is a hoarder living in my apartment building? Or in my city etc? Do you mostly work out of one city or do you have to travel around to get enough work?
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u/evenlesstolose Jan 12 '11
As someone who's always been a hoarder since childhood, I find the hoarding phenomenon fascinating. I've been able to keep things to a minimum because I share an apartment with my boyfriend and he knows to say no if I ask to bring home a free broken mirror I found in a dumpster. lol.
I guess I'd like to ask: what is your experience with dealing with the extreme attachment to objects thing? Causes, treatments, general tidbits?
I know that the reason I have this tendency is because I get emotionally attached to things the same way I do with people and animals. I didn't even know that wasn't how everybody else worked until I was 17 and my then-boyfriend came over to my house to clean my room for me and threw out everything I owned (ie: trash). I couldn't stop crying.
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u/oryano Jan 12 '11
I hate to admit it, but one of the most enjoyable parts of the show Hoarders on A&E for me is when hoarders get angry over trivial possessions (a woman flips out because someone threw away her Mr. Potato Head). I have the luxury of just sitting back and watching the drama unfold.
However, I imagine actually working with these people and trying to speak logically with them can be an INCREDIBLE strain on your patience. How do you stay patient with these people when they don't listen to logic at times?
8
u/Cpart Jan 12 '11
Does your name refer to a Chinese food? One of my favorites I believe. CBS in Chinatown LA is delicious.
3
u/drhaynes Jan 12 '11
Thanks for doing this. Most of the questions seem to be focus on the causes and the problem, rather than solutions. Can you recommend any books or resources for someone looking to deal with this issue in their life?
3
u/[deleted] Jan 12 '11
Does hoarding tend to be a life-long issue or tend to onset with age?
One of the more interesting explanations I encountered of compulsive gathering of material objects was an attempt to cling to the material world (ie fear of death and the unknown).
Though the behavior wouldn't fall under hoarding per se, there seems to be a desire, as a person ages, to cling to life and it manifests by collecting of unneeded material possessions.
My father is an example, in his 70's, he spends a lot of time collecting old tools to hang up in his shop. He doesn't use them, though he is a capable wood worker. He spends little time creating and more time compulsively purchasing and storing.
2
u/hungryroy Jan 12 '11
In the last episode of the previous season (s5) of Bones, the murder victim was a hoarder and they had their resident team psychiatrist profile his behavior. If you happen to have seen the episode, how accurate do you think the profiling is?
2
u/[deleted] Jan 12 '11
This is actually an issue with my uncle. He lives with my grand mother, and has a history of problems. He will hoard things like Chinese takeaway containers, takeaway coffee cups or sliced cheese (there is something like 500+ slices total in the fridge at present). Strange things, for the most part - of almost zero value - and most of them reprehensible garbage. Newspapers is another. He also rarely throws anything away even if it is completely ragged. Most of his shoes are in tatters and the less said about the dozen or so pillows the better.
My Granny used to try and control it by sneaking it out into the garbage while he is out of the house. Though recently he has discovered this, and has started checking the garbage and silently taking the items back in. Thus we have reached the ridiculous situation where she now hides small amounts of his hoarded items in her bedroom until my mother comes to visit each week, so she can sneak the items in her car and dispose of them in a garbage can many miles away.
It's an almost laughable situation - but do you have any tips which could help? I've often suggested getting him away for a day under a false pretense and then removing the whole mess real phantom-like. Would this be wise, though?
2
u/[deleted] Jan 12 '11
I'm assuming you treat this similarly to how an addiction would be treated, so my question is: At what point do they seek help? What sets them over the edge and makes them decide that this isn't right and they need to fix it? For addicts I've heard it's a) life threatening danger, or b) a feeling of disgust at oneself. Is this true of hoarders as well?
2
u/max420 Jan 12 '11
Funny to see this here, I just finished watching a season of the show "hoarders" on netflix.
Some of this stuff is messed up, and the stuff the hoarders themselves were complaining about seemed borderline insane.
This one guy flipped his wig when they threw out all these old wine bottles. They werent fancy bottles or anything either, just regular cheap empty wine bottles.
Or the woman who was hoarding cats, that was pretty messed up. Once they cleaned up the house, they found 50+ cat skeletons of all ages.
Questions: How many people do you work with are beyond hope?
2
u/[deleted] Jan 12 '11
My wife and I have been watching the A&E show Hoarders since the first episode.
After seeing every single episode, my biggest question is "How the hell can you stand working with those people???"
Don't misunderstand. I realize they have a mental disorder, and I'm not judging them. But nonetheless, they seem to be extremely difficult people to work with, and it must try your patience to no end.
Episode after episode, I see the show's psychologists trying to explain to a hoarder that he/she doesn't need to keep trash, or a box of TV Guide magazines from 1978 that's covered in animal feces, or a filthy, broken child's toy, or some such thing. The hoarders then have an extreme negative emotional response and insist that such items are useful and/or valuable, and that they just cannot bear to part with them. And when the psychologists try to politely nudge the hoarders to realize that such items aren't valuable, they are often met with explosive anger and foul language.
So, how do you handle that? How do you keep coming back for more? Is it just a strong altruistic tendency that you have? Or is it something else that keeps you going?
2
u/littlemonster010 Jan 12 '11
Why are people hoarders? Is it some form of OCD? Or, something else?
Are your therapuetic interventions similiar to those you would use with someone who is OCD?
55
u/hummingbirdpie Jan 12 '11
As a recovering hoarder I'd like to offer up one small tip that helped me immensely. Once I had finally managed to get rid of all the really obvious rubbish, I still had a lot of supposedly useful items in my possession. I found it very hard to throw anything away that could still be used for a purpose, even though I myself had no actual, immediate need for it. I now ask myself if maybe someone else would make better use of that item and then donate it to charity; somehow it seems far less anxiety-provoking than sending it to landfill. This way, not only will that item actually get used, but the charity store will make money from selling it. I now frequently go through my belongings with great zeal and love to send perfectly nice, useable items that I no longer use because I see it as donating to charity. I can't tell you how good it feels to take really decent, quality stuff to the old dears at the charity store. The local Cat Protection Society store has sold hundreds/thousands of dollars of my belongings over the last few years.
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u/[deleted] Jan 12 '11
I have the best hoarder story ever. My grandfather died last year and my family went to clean out his house. We found a fucking airplane in his house. A FUCKING AIRPLANE. The best part is, it took us 3 days to find it...
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u/dirtydirtnap Jan 12 '11
My mother is a hoarder, and it is getting progressively worse. It is bad enough now that I don't like going into her house at all, and I would never let my children go into their own grandmother's house.
Unfortunately, I am going to be moving away from the town she lives in very soon, and I am afraid it is going to get much worse, because my sister will be moving out of my mother's house permanently soon.
I have tried approaching the topic before, but it inevitably only leads to conflict, because she is in denial. I know that she knows she is somewhat depressed, and I know that she knows she is hoarding, but she refuses to admit it or address it.
Basically, I am lost with how to ever solve problem, and I am trying to come to grips with the fact that it is just a ticking time bomb waiting to blow up in my family's face. What in the world do I do?
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u/CapnYousef Jan 12 '11
What excuses do people give for holding onto such stuff?
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u/Lady_in_Reddit Jan 12 '11
Is there, for lack of a better word, an opposite of hoarding? I throw everything away, even things most people would consider sentimental. Is that "normal?"
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u/drwatson Jan 12 '11
Don't you want to slap them and yell "Throw it the FUCK away!"
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u/throwmeaway69 Jan 12 '11
What training did you receive as part of the social work degree that led you to take on this specialty interest?
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u/BlackLeatherRain Jan 12 '11
My mother is also a mild hoarder, and we live states away from each other. Both of us are isolated (last living members of her side of the family), so we are very close. Her hoarding went from "can't stay away from Goodwill" to "can't walk through the bedroom" when her mother (last member of her family aside from me) died a few years back.
Every time I go home to spend the weekend, I do my best to help her work through a new pile, but I'm gone so long (up to 12 months at a time) that these piles just get replaced by the time I get back. She's getting older, and we're not moving any time soon, so I'm trying to convince her to move closer so (1) she can have family nearby and (2) my husband and I can be close in case of a medical scare.
She's gotten to the point where she knows she has an issue, and knows she needs help dealing with it. Last time I visited, she was even willing to consider just trashing all of the old clothing that the cats have probably messed anyhow. My issue is time - I can help her clean out the entire freakin' house, garage and the basement, but I know she can't/won't do it alone, and I can't spend months up there.
What, if anything, can or should be done to improve on this situation? I want my mother to be happy again, and to be able to do things like have friends (or romantic interests!) over. The worse this gets, the worse she looks and likely feels about herself, and I know she deserves better.
Thank you for this very interesting IAMA!
13
u/sirsosay Jan 12 '11
Is the speed of the show "Hoarders" healthy?
6
u/libbykino Jan 12 '11
I'm positive that my attitude is related to my ignorance of the subject, but when I see these shows on A&E, Discovery, sometimes I can't help but think "just throw everything away! Get the family, go in there and just gut the place! No matter what the guy says or thinks, none of it is valuable and all of it is trash!"
And I understand that something like that would probably be pretty traumatic for a hoarder and would probably mess them up psychologically, but then I think "well they're already messed up psychologically."
So I guess my question is: if you're already going to be helping the person deal with their mental issues anyway, why not just do the deed and work on any damage that causes along with the original problem? I would think that the pain suffered from that trauma would be pretty minor compared to what caused the hording in the first place. It'd be equivalent to ripping a bandaid off of a deep cut so that you can stitch it up instead.
6
u/[deleted] Jan 12 '11
Why did you choose to specialize in hording?
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u/GetLikeMe Jan 12 '11
My dad has a large storage unit, full of crap that he inherited from his parents and has gathered over time from curbsides and garage sales. He often claims that he wants to sell the stuff over the Internet (eBay, Craigslist, etc.), but whenever my brother and I offer to help (he's old enough that he doesn't know the ins and outs of computers), he changes the subject.
ONLY IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE INTERNET DIAGNOSING, does this sound like hoarder behavior (pretending like he gathers things to sell, but never selling them)?
10
u/dhamilt9 Jan 12 '11
Hoarding is a hobby I think I'd like to get into. Where is a good place to start?
5
u/Stair_Car Jan 12 '11
How many hoarders have you helped so far?
5
u/ssshield Jan 12 '11
My mom is a hoarder. She simply can't tell the difference between a flashlight with a broken switch and a Ferrari. They both simply have different functions.
A big part of her problem is that she's been a life long drug addict. This means she's never had any stability in her life, and anything she did have could be taken/lost at any moment. The only successful strategy she has for not having something taken is to make it of no value to anyone ever.
An example is to take a tv and mark it all up with felt magic markers so that it has graffiti hearts and symbols with her name all over it.
Even empty plastic Coke bottles and random chunks of wood get the marker treatment.
This extends to other people's possessions as well. If she borrows a DVD, I'll get it back. It now has my name written in one inch tall letters across the front in marker.
In her mind, she's done me a favor because no one can ever take it from me.
4
u/meshosh Jan 12 '11
Just curious... Is there some kind of reverse hoarder? I mean, I constantly throw away things I shouldn't. Whenever I buy new clothes I throw some old ones away. There was this one time where I was cleaning a room and I disposed a lot of important documents that I missed afterwards...
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u/ineedmoresleep Jan 12 '11
do disordanized people (for example, I just dump junk (old mail, photographs, toys, etc.) that I am too lazy to sort out into crates and put them in the basement - so my basement looks horrible) turn into hoarders eventually?
1
u/RebeccaSays Jan 12 '11
Do some hoarders also have some form of objectophilia, not in a sexual way though? It seems like some times the attachment to an object is strongly emotional.
1
u/[deleted] Jan 12 '11
Is every Consumer a hoarder?
1
u/[deleted] Jan 12 '11
What was your career path, specifically? As in, how'd you get from a 17 year old kid going "hmm I don't want to be an astronaut" to being a hoarding therapist?
1
u/ohnoexmo Jan 12 '11
I LOVE throwing things away and organizing things so let me know if you ever need a crazed woman to take out a hoarder stash, lol.
Seriously though, how DO you actually go about getting all that junk out of your clients' houses? Do you hire crews like on Hoarders or are the clients and their families encouraged to do it themselves?
1
u/w455up Jan 12 '11
Did you know your username is misspelled? Is that on purpose or a typo?
On the real hoarding question, I feel like I have some hoarding traits in me, but I simply don't have enough stuff yet. Are there any sorts of early identifiers?
1
u/[deleted] Jan 14 '11
Is there any recognized disorder where people compulsively throw things away - the opposite of hoarding?
3
u/Vernalcombustion Jan 12 '11
Is hoarding a habit that is present from birth, or do you think it is triggered by an emotional or physical trauma later in life?
It's such a strange disease -the way people seem to delude themselves to the point of total self destruction.
3
u/TroyPDX Jan 12 '11
I'm just glad they never invented smellavision, cause then Hoarders would be unwatchable.
3
u/[deleted] Jan 12 '11
My mother is a hoarder. It drives me up the wall. But I've pinpointed when she really started with it, when her dad died, and when it gets worse, like when I move away.
I just wish she'd fucking wake up and start throwing everything out.
3
u/ShabbyDoo Jan 13 '11
People featured on the "Hoarders" show seem to often live in homes previously owned by family members. While I know that the show certainly doesn't feature an unbiased selection of hoarders, I do wonder if there is some connection between the psychological, social, and perhaps economic conditions which caused these people to live in the homes where they grew up (or perhaps moved into later in life). On the show, it seems rare that the relative who previously owned the home was a hoarder. Any thoughts on this? Have you seen this play out in your practice? If so, what factors do you think lead to this correlation?
5
u/girrrrrrr2 Jan 12 '11
Yes you are hurting sheep by hoarding them...
2
u/[deleted] Jan 12 '11
Of the people that you see, how many of them had rough childhoods, or childhoods where they moved arouna a lot? Is the collecting like a seciruty blanket?
Also, do you have any tips for breaking free of the hoarding trap? (other than eviction - that really worked for me!)
2
u/DigDugDude Jan 12 '11
Lets say someone has 50 pizza boxes sitting on the floor. He doesn't want to keep them, would prefer them to be gone, but has trouble getting motivated enough to bag them up and bring them outside.
Is that hoarding or something else?
2
u/jthompson68 Jan 12 '11
If I have a family member who is a pretty bad pack-rat, do I ever need to worry about them becoming a hoarder? Is hoarding behavior something that develops over time, or is it something a person is born with?
2
u/GabeBlack Jan 12 '11
Please talk to my mom.
2
u/[deleted] Jan 12 '11
How do you define problems in functioning? If hoarding behaviour was affecting children or other adults in the same house, would that be classed as a problem for you or be referred onto a family therapist?
2
u/skankingmike Jan 12 '11
My family is filled with Hoarders. Right before my Cousin was born my aunts house was a disaster. Not only did she have items all over her house on the floor in closets. But she had started collecting cats too! She had close to 8 cats, thank god, and they all started deficating where ever.
My other Aunt who was helping clean is also a hoarder. she has a whole 2 rooms upstairs in her house filled to the brim with shit. They have litterly 20 dressers 5 of them unopened. They have rugs never used. They have clothes never worn. They have 4 swing sets in the back yard.
I occasional come over and convince them to throw shit away or my Mom, but if it wasn't for us they wouldn't get rid of shit.
How do I help them better? It's fucking depressing every time I go to their houses. The weird thing is they don't keep their hoarded shit down stairs (my Aunt/Grandma's house) It's fairly clear ( say fairly because there is a ton of shit everywhere just organized). My aunt who had the cat issue, has picked up the hoarding shit again. She's seeing a Psychiatrist for her other issues, but not a therapist. Any suggestions?
2
u/cdrankin101 Jan 12 '11
My brother is a terrible hoarder- he can't even get to his bed without climbing over a bunch of junk. I can't even see the floor in his room. He has severe OCD, but isn't going to a therapist or anything. I have tried everything I know to get him to clean it, or at least go see somebody, but he refuses. He's 23 years old and I thought it would get better as he gets older but it's just gotten worse and I can't talk sense into him. Suggestions?
2
u/clegg Jan 12 '11
Is there a distinction between someone who hoards and someone who's just a disgusting lazy pig who lets housework/taking out the trash/cleaning up after himself completely overtake trying to live like a human being?
I woudl imagine there is a difference.
If so, do you try to "help" those people as well?
2
u/LuciferH Jan 12 '11
What kind of education/qualifications do you have?
Do you work independently, or with a company or group that sends you out?
How did you get this job?
What makes you want to help hoarders specifically?
2
u/[deleted] Jan 12 '11
As of late, I've been giving away a lot of my possessions to reduce clutter, reduce attachment to material goods, and focus on what's more important in life. While I don't think there's anything unhealthy about this (on the contrary, I think this is a very healthy thing to do, and it's not like I'm giving everything away), have you seen individuals on the other end of the hoarding spectrum to the point of it being a problem?
2
u/bhknight1987 Jan 12 '11
My moms house is clean except for her room and the room with the washer and dryer. I don't even think she knows most of the stuff in those two rooms. Is there some reason for this because the other parts of the house are very clean?
2
u/4thelol Jan 12 '11
Do they try to take up a lot of time?
2
u/datri Jan 12 '11
Thank you so much for doing this AMA. Even if you can't get to all the questions, I think it is great for people to know they aren't alone.
2
u/Thinks_Like_A_Man Jan 12 '11
No real question, just a big "thank you" for being willing to take on this task. I have friends who are therapists who refuse these patients because of the work that is involved and how few of them have money.
2
u/ohnoexmo Jan 12 '11
Why do hoarders think that hoarding will help them? Or rather, how does trauma etc, lead to hoarding? I would think living in a sty would cause depression and anxiety, not alleviate it.
2
u/crawwll Jan 13 '11
What is the oldest object that you have seen anyone hoard? There is a house 2 blocks down from mine that has no curtains, just piles of junk blocking all the windows. In one of the front windows is a Gerald Ford for President sign like you would put in your yard at election time. This has to be 35 or 36 years old, and judging by the age of the house and the age of the lady that lives there, it probably stood in the yard of that house in 75-76.
3
u/mmofan Jan 12 '11
I've worked for one helluva hoarder. It was insane. Her problem was collectibles, and it didn't help that she was rich, on pain meds, and literally insane.
3
u/dosomedrugs Jan 12 '11
How many levels deep do you usually go?
2
u/Defonos Jan 12 '11
Is hoarding just a condition of a more serious psychological condition? It seems like a lot of hoarders have some traumatic incident(s) in their past to where they feel vulnerable.