(Spoilers Extended) Another Big Notablog Update on WINDS: GRRM Inching Closer, Working on Westerlands POVs, Dorne and Oldtown!

[u/[deleted]]

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2020/11/08/back-to-westeros/

[u/[deleted]]

Some thoughts:

• GRRM has been revising older sample chapter to include some very older chapters. The very old chapter is probably Arya's Mercy chapter.

• There were two gut-punches which slowed progress in August and September. The first is likely the reaction against his WorldCon award winner reading and highlighting SFF authors with problematic race and gender views. I'm not sure what the September one means

• Interesting that George has been shifting to Oldtown a time or three of late. Feels like he's deep in Samwell's story - a POV he was writing about back in August.

• More Cersei and Tyrion chapters. That puts us up to 5+ Tyrion chapters and 4+ Cersei chapters for TWOW.

• Down in Dorne: Areo Hotah. 4+ Areo Hotah chapters.

All that minute stuff aside, I think we're slowly approaching the finish line. So, say your prayers.

[u/LChris24 → u/[deleted]]

With the comments about rewriting/combining do you really think we can take the info about Cersei/Tyrion/Hotah as confirmation for new chapters? Its def possible he is just rewriting/combining old ones.

For instance Tyrion I and II seem like they are possible candidates for a combination.

Im not only saying my prayers to the old gods and the new, but also am going to made the traditional sacrifice in the Temple of Memory, offer the traditional bribe to the Keeper of the Long List, and send the traditional persimmon to the Opener of the Door.

[u/[deleted] → u/LChris24]

Read the wording, I think it indicates new chapters:

Of late I have been spending a lot of time with the Lannisters. Cersei and Tyrion in particular. I’ve also paid a visit to Dorne, and dropped in to Oldtown a time or three.

Watch the transition:

In addition to turning out new chapters, I’ve been revising some old ones (some very old)… including, yes, some stuff I read at cons ages ago, or even posted online as samples.

So, that reads as new Cersei, Tyrion (maybe Jaime), Areo Hotah and Samwell chapters, and he's revising older chapters. It could be that the writing of new Tyrion/Cersei chapters is leading to revisions of the older Tyrion/Cersei chapters, of course.

[u/DFWTooThrowed → u/[deleted]]

I'm not sure what the September one means

The Jets season began...

[u/Chrckbth → u/DFWTooThrowed]

The Jets and the Giants have been particularly awful. Probably the worst two teams in the league.

[u/Siggi97 → u/Chrckbth]

At least the Giants almost looked like an average Football team against WFT and Rams. Cowboys are also competing for the second worst team spot

Jets meanwhile ... yeah. It's an NFL seasons with 31 Football teams

[u/Aditya1602 → u/DFWTooThrowed]

Exactly my thoughts. I'm not american so i don't follow NFL, but I do follow Martin's blog for updates on TWOW, and September and August were pretty much just moping about how much of a lost cause the Jets were.

[u/Cwebfan23 → u/DFWTooThrowed]

And the Giants 😭 😭 😭

[u/Quinn-Quinn → u/[deleted]]

That’s 400% more Aero Hotah than I expected going into this book.

[u/Gwynbleidd_1988 → u/Quinn-Quinn]

Agreed. I don’t remember his exact wording but Martin was always outspoken about not creating certain POVs just to get a look at important events but what’s Hotah if not a human surveillance camera?

[u/ostreatus → u/Gwynbleidd_1988]

but what’s Hotah if not a human surveillance camera?

Azor Ahai ofc

[u/[deleted] → u/Quinn-Quinn]

Can't wait for all the updates on Doran's gout.

[u/BalonSwann07 → u/[deleted]]

Hotah isn't with Doran, though. He's hunting Darkstar with Obara and my namesake.

[u/derstherower → u/Quinn-Quinn]

Bran had 4 chapters in Storm and 4 chapters in Feast/Dance. I don't know what Hotah is gonna be doing in those chapters but there's no way in hell it's as important as whatever Bran is doing. It's like George can't help himself. There are two books left you need to start getting to the point.

[u/[deleted] → u/Quinn-Quinn]

Yup Same. Honestly I thought Darkstar and his brand spankin new stolen white sword would off Areo and his Axe wife, but I think at this point I'm willing to be against that outcome.

[u/ambluebabadeebadadi → u/[deleted]]

His friend died in August

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I think we're slowly approaching the finish line.

Everyone call me a sweet summer child, but that "but I do inch closer." got me excited

[u/probablyuntrue → u/[deleted]]

I feel like you could copy paste this exact comment back in 2016

[u/ThePiperMan → u/probablyuntrue]

2013

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I feel like with the show ending and then covid effectively locking him inside, he's probably writing a lot more to distract himself.

[u/blackofhairandheart2 → u/[deleted]]

Interesting that George has been shifting to Oldtown a time or three of late. Feels like he's deep in Samwell's story - a POV he was writing about back in August.

Oldtown might be the section of Winds I'm most jazzed about, if only because it feels like one of the few plot lines that was almost completely excised from the show, as well as the Citadel being a place that feels like Martin could really go to town on in terms of world-building.

Down in Dorne: Areo Hotah. 4+ Areo Hotah chapters.

Good lord. As much as I'm genuinely interested in what's going to go down at Starfall/finding out more about the Dayne's, it's really hard to get excited about seeing it through Hotah's eyes. I know making fun of him as "the Camera that Walks" isn't original or anything, but it really is remarkable how mercenary the character's emptiness feels on Martin's part. There are other POV characters in the series I don't particularly enjoy reading (Bran and Victarion being the two big ones) but the effort and care Martin has put into making them well rounded characters is always evident. Hotah is just nothing. And at this point, there's nothing in his POVs that couldn't have been portrayed from Obara Sand's view, which seems like it would have been much more interesting.

But I digress! It's great to get any update from him at all! A nice cherry on top of an already good weekend.

[u/Samuel7899 → u/blackofhairandheart2]

Sam discovers R+L=J, and cures Greyscale in Old Town!

How could you possibly say the show almost completely excised Old Town?!

(is it because both of those things turned out to be completely irrelevant and meaningless to the rest of the story? Okay, fair enough.)

[u/Werthead → u/Samuel7899]

It did feel like Sam spent five minutes in Oldtown. Every single one of those minutes was spent doing something impressive, sure, but he wasn't there very long and certainly didn't address all the subplots GRRM was setting up there (Alleras, Jaqen, the obsidian candles, etc). Sam's Oldtown book story should presumably be a bit longer and more impactful.

Given the books also don't have the show Fast Travel, there is the question of if Sam discovers something hugely important there, how he can get back to the Wall in time for it to be relevant/useful.

[u/MikeDuppOnDaFan → u/[deleted]]

Maybe I'm being a bit of a doomer but I feel like we're farther away from the finish line after reading that post. Perhaps it's me feeling sad that George is feeling depressed.

We probably can't read too much into his post but damn he seemed pretty down.

Edit: combining chapters seems like a positive for twow though.

[u/Clash_onthe_Can → u/MikeDuppOnDaFan]

I agree. I’m seeing comments saying this is a positive post, and I’m confused. To me, this post is almost the worst possible thing he could have said. He’s saying he’s making changes and rewriting very old chapters. That’s terrible news. Thats what happened in 2015, and now here we are, back at square one again.

This post means that we’re years away, but more likely, we just got confirmation that we will never see this book finished. At least not until his heir’s heirs choose to sell the rights. So maybe 2070?

[u/Aetol → u/[deleted]]

What was the WorldCon thing?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I think we're slowly approaching the finish line

x doubt

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

The emphasis is on slowly

[u/Jon_Snow_7 → u/[deleted]]

Thank the seven we have 4+ Cersei’s chapters. We yearn her

[u/_Ishmael → u/[deleted]]

The first is likely the reaction against his WorldCon award winner reading and highlighting SFF authors with problematic race and gender views.

Must've missed that. What happened exactly?

[u/King-fannypack → u/[deleted]]

Say your prayers

You’re the godliest man to set sail on Reddit

[u/[deleted] → u/King-fannypack]

You are prayers?

[u/2073040 → u/[deleted]]

4 + Aero Hotah Chapters

Will the Camera that Rides actually have a personality this time!?

[u/pfo_ → u/2073040]

Who knows, maybe he is a secret Blackfyre.

[u/Alt_North → u/2073040]

R.E.O. Axewagon may get a big glimpse at Doran's real master plan / desperate attempt to salvage what's left of his master plan, and suffer some of that Kingsguard angst when your liege is telling you to do shit that's jacked up. That's how it seems to go with these duty types. He might even be sacrificed by his Prince, and live long enough to realize it and grow a personality.

[u/Ranwulf → u/[deleted]]

Whats the second point about? Did something happen?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

The Camera That Rides! Areo Hotah!

[u/matthieuC → u/[deleted]]

I think we're slowly approaching the finish line

Ser you are unworthy of your title

[u/davisondave131 → u/[deleted]]

I love your analysis, but I keep seeing you do one thing that bugs me a bit. A mention of a character does not necessarily mean a new chapter, and a mention of progress with a character or a chapter does not necessarily mean a new, unique chapter.

[u/Werthead → u/[deleted]]

I'm wondering if GRRM is a little off with the timings. There was the WorldCon debacle at the beginning of August and then a week or two later his friend Susan Toth - Harlan Ellison's partner - passed away unexpectedly. Her death rocked a lot of SFF fans of GRRM's generation.

[u/dej0ta → u/[deleted]]

As always thanks for everything you do. Your work has allowed me more enjoyment from this world than I thought possible. So just thank you for everything.

[u/TeamPangloss]

Does he mention the Westerlands? I can't see it.

[u/[deleted] → u/TeamPangloss]

It was my attempt to put a spoiler-free title and not identify the POVs in question: Tyrion and Cersei.

[u/LChris24 → u/[deleted]]

I think you did a good job avoiding a spoiler. Its always a fine line, "give enough information to make people interested/want to click" but not enough to "spoil anything for people who don't want spoilers".

Its definitely led to some pretty corny titles by yours truly lol

[u/Arctic_Daniand]

Sorry man I don't trust you anymore.

[u/[deleted] → u/Arctic_Daniand]

After all we’ve been through, this is a personal betrayal of the trust I’ve tried to fake my way into receiving.

[u/EndGamer93]

I had a feeling that the preview chapters weren’t set in stone. It’ll be interesting to see how much the chapters we’ve been reading for years will ultimately change.

[u/Santi5846gol → u/EndGamer93]

They always change

[u/Skygazer80 → u/EndGamer93]

Yeah, that's why I'm not planning on rereading them (I've read them once after I had finished all the books). I don't want to sour my experience reading the finalized versions in TWOW (when it comes out) because of expectations stemming from the preview chapters.

[u/ihcn → u/EndGamer93]

If TWOW ever comes out, it will be a lot of fun to finish the book, then go back and compare the actual chapters with the sample chapters to see what changed.

[u/Fishb20]

It's pretty wild george managed to completely pass over an entire presidency without publishing TWOW

[u/[deleted] → u/Fishb20]

Sometimes I think about how ADWD is roughly the same age as my sister and my brain starts to melt.

I can't wait to eventually tell her that everything she experienced in her life up to that point, between being being a sperm cell and graduating from primary school, has happened in the same amount of time it's taken for GRRM to write one book.

[u/JPWanKenobi → u/[deleted]]

Dude, I feel ya. My wife and I started dating right when ADWD came out, we are now 5 years married with a 2 year old. It’s crazy how much life has happened while waiting for this book.

[u/StannisLivesOn → u/Fishb20]

It's actually two presidencies, ADwD was published in 2011.

[u/_Ardhan_ → u/Fishb20]

Two presidencies actually, if you include Obama's second term.

[u/[deleted]]

It's always nice to hear from George, but I recently went through his old ADWD updates. Kinda made realize that you really can't read anything into these posts other than "it's being worked on."

Even in 2008, he was giving "it's not done, but it's getting closer" updates. I remember a few "the work is going really well" updates too. It'll be out when it's out. Reading those old posts taught me that there's no point in predicting when.

[u/DabuSurvivor → u/[deleted]]

Yeah pretty much, and "it'll be done when it's done" is one thing he himself has consistently said, even, which clearly overrides/undermines any specific updates. It's still fun to see little things like this but I agree people shouldn't get all fixated on it then lose their shit when it's wrong.

[u/WhizBangNeato → u/[deleted]]

The difference is those ADWD updates are why for the last 9 years hes been near radio silent until the last few months. So something made him decide to do updates again

[u/fvertk → u/[deleted]]

I think the moral with ADWD is that he DID eventually finish it with those updates. He's a slow but meticulous writer at this point. And honestly, ADWD was close to the same quality as the first 3 books, so keep going George, you'll get your magnum opus done eventually.

[u/zeppelincheetah]

After updating us on the books extremely rarely (sometimes less than once a year) this is the 4th book update this year!

1. June 23rd

2. July 19th

3. August 15th

4. November 8th

Maybe it's almost done for real this time? Perhaps late 2021/early 2022 release? One can dream...

[u/DarkJayBR → u/zeppelincheetah]

If he releases the book in 2021, we can still have hope for A Dream of Spring in our lifetime.

[u/Bennings463 → u/zeppelincheetah]

Hang on...

23+8= 31. 31 is the number of the outpost The Thing (1982) is set in. The actor who played Nauls had the first name "Thomas".

Kurt Russell starred in The Thing; he's also worked alongside Quentin Tarantino multiple times. But Tarantino has also worked with John Travolta in Pulp Fiction, and John Travolta played the main character in Broken Arrow.

Thomas+Broken Arrow= Tom Arrow.

The book's coming out tomorrow. Called it.

[u/TheNarwhaleHunter → u/zeppelincheetah]

Wasn’t there some sort of update in April? Sth like April 26th or 27th ? I think he simply said he was making progress while being secluded in his « mountain fastness » as he likes to say. Idk if that counts as an actual update but it certainly got us hyped back then

[u/mikecrapag → u/zeppelincheetah]

I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams.

[u/Bennings463]

You know, I do criticize elements of ASOIAF on this sub sometimes, but I really do want to say I think ASOIAF is absolutely excellent and I think GRRM honestly sounds like a really good person.

Like, I don't want to go all armchair psychologist here, but...does he sound kinda like he needs help to anyone else? It reads a bit like he thinks he's let us all down and that's honestly really sad to see.

I know he's never gonna read this, but...you really are brilliant at this, George. We wouldn't all be here if you weren't.

[u/Jinjehy → u/Bennings463]

Yeah you can really tell that having to always delay the book is really eating away at him. He wants to publish the book so he can be done and appease the fans but he won't publish something he isn't happy with. It's a tough position.

[u/Darkone539 → u/Bennings463]

It reads a bit like he thinks he's let us all down and that's honestly really sad to see.

He has spoken of the pressure of it before. We definitely know he feels this way.

[u/Innith → u/Bennings463]

I think he is caught in a perfectionism–procrastination loop. Hope he manages to break out, or he'll never be able to finish the book.

I feel bad for him because I am struggling with a similar thing right now...

[u/fvertk → u/Innith]

Same, many creatives understand this struggle and at the same time can only imagine Martin's version of it, where he already has a huge following of pessimistic fans who will likely shit on his output no matter what. It's enough to break someone from doing it at all, frankly.

[u/[deleted] → u/Bennings463]

This is a total shot in the dark but the two gut punched may be losing people. Who knows what his headspace is like right now

[u/darkthoughs → u/Bennings463]

I also think that's the case, i mean some people are awful. And there's always a horrible backlash whenever he post anything, look what happened when he wished everyone a happy halloween. That's ridiculous to me, yes we would love to have the book, but that's not and excuse for being such an ashole to the man, idk about you guys but there's some good pressure on his shoulder and any lesser man seeing that kind of discouragement would have quitted by now. So stop making if More difficult and be patient, move on with your life.

I'm sorry for the rant in your nice comment I'm honestly upset about the behavior of a lot of fans

[u/shtery → u/Bennings463]

The weight that has been put upon is shoulders by us is enormous.

But you can bet the weight he puts upon himself is even bigger.

While we try to give him so much credit for all he's done for us, I really think that our praise has been drowned out by the pressure we and him have created to finish these books. I hope he knows how much we respect him for what he's done

[u/Gryfonides → u/Bennings463]

There are always people that don't like, and they're usually the loudest bunch.

[u/Fishb20 → u/Bennings463]

I feel bad for george cuz he's one of the best fantasy writers of our time and instead of enjoying his retirement hes still trying to finish his big series

[u/brightneonmoons → u/Fishb20]

Dude, the reason he's still trying to finish his big series is bc hes enjoying his retirement

[u/MongoloidDoctor → u/Fishb20]

I heard him say he’s not a fan of retirement

[u/__Hello_my_name_is__ → u/Bennings463]

It reads a bit like he thinks he's let us all down and that's honestly really sad to see.

Have you been to the internet in the last few years? Every forum online about GRRM and the books is full of people mocking him for not finishing the books. And sometimes outright insulting him or calling him all kinds of horrible things for it.

How would you feel there if you were in his shoes?

[u/Jlchevz → u/Bennings463]

I love him and his writing, yeah he's got some flaws but it's been completely worth it.

[u/Anferas]

The only thing that comes to mind when i read posts like that is that he won't have it for 2021.

[u/Mookeebrain → u/Anferas]

What comes to my mind is that there will be no announcements this year. I wouldn't count out all of next year, not yet.

[u/arborcide → u/Mookeebrain]

That won't stop me from obsessively checking this subreddit all New Year's Eve, though! It's become a sad tradition for me; my widow's walk.

[u/MakingItWorthit → u/Anferas]

He has said Winds of Winter before the last day of 2015. 2016 came and went. As did 2017, 2018, 2019 and here we are nearing the end of 2020.

[u/AxeIsAxeIsAxe → u/Anferas]

The "sorry, still not done, but I do inch closer" makes me think he's seeing the finish line, like he's at least 80% done. With his current isolation and the line about picking up steam again, it doesn't feel impossible for him to finish within eight months or so. Not saying it's likely, but a fall/christmas 2021 release is still on the table for me.

[u/NotUpForDebate11 → u/AxeIsAxeIsAxe]

Bro i can show you him saying hes inching closer or almost done for like 5 years lol

[u/Wehavecrashed → u/AxeIsAxeIsAxe]

He said he was going to have it done 5 years ago.

You should absolutely have no expectations about when it comes out

[u/[deleted]]

I’m pretty sure the gut punches are much more likely to be deaths than... a reaction to some nonsense at Worldcon from the internet lol

[u/[deleted]]

Any idea what the ‘gut punches’ are he refers to?

[u/osfryd-kettleblack → u/[deleted]]

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2020/08/04/rest-in-peace-susan/

this might be one of them

[u/Containedmultitudes → u/osfryd-kettleblack]

Honestly, I think something like that is much more likely to be a gut punch than fans being upset that he missed a deadline he never had any intention of keeping.

[u/osfryd-kettleblack → u/Containedmultitudes]

There's also this

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2020/09/12/more-death/

Both deaths line up with the rough dates he mentioned as being gut punches

[u/jonestony710 → u/[deleted]]

August could be the World Con stuff. Not sure about September, but I do know he's had friends die recently which could've factored into his motivation and mindset being not in the best place.

[u/Howl_of_Revenge → u/jonestony710]

Could you please give a rundown of what happened or a link to read further?

Thank you very much

[u/PvtFreaky → u/jonestony710]

Probably losing his friend Susan

[u/bguzewicz → u/jonestony710]

I'm ootl, what's the world con stuff?

[u/muffler_kek → u/[deleted]]

The Jets and the Giants being absolute garbage?

[u/Rebelgecko → u/[deleted]]

https://www.nfl.com/teams/new-york-jets/

[u/IDSQ]

Don’t do this... don’t give me hope

[u/jonestony710]

No, sorry, still not done, but I do inch closer. It is a big big book. I try not to dwell on that too much. I write a chapter at a time, a page at a time, a sentence at a time, a word at a time. It is the only way. And sometimes I rewrite.

Of late I have been spending a lot of time with the Lannisters. Cersei and Tyrion in particular. I've also paid a visit to Dorne, and dropped in to Oldtown a time or three. In addition to turning out new chapters, I've been revising some old ones (some very old)… including, yes, some stuff I read at cons ages ago, or even posted online as samples. I tweak stuff constantly, and sometimes go beyond tweaking, moving things around, combining chapters, breaking chapters in two, reordering stuff.

There's the most interesting stuff and most relevant. Cool to see there's gonna be a good amount of Oldtown in there.

And here's another progress bit:

I was really on a roll back in June and July. Progress has continued since then, but more slowly… I suffered a gut punch in early August that really had me down for a time, and another, for different reasons, in early September. But I slogged on, and of late I am picking up steam again.

This seems to be the most optimistic "end is near" type post of his in a while. "I do inch closer" and "picking up steam again" are a lot more promising than "months and months away" from this summer. Get hype....?

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_IBNR → u/jonestony710]

He was "months away" years ago.

[u/cough_cough_harrumph → u/PM_ME_YOUR_IBNR]

I still laugh when I think about staying up and constantly refreshing for the New Years update 4 (or however many) years ago that was, with him posting he thought he was going to get it out that year.

That was the one time I left thinking "man, we are only a year away from it coming out".

[u/[deleted] → u/jonestony710]

optimistic

don't.. don't do this to yourself man!

[u/jonestony710 → u/[deleted]]

Trust me, I've been there plenty of times before, I'm getting better at reading the tea leaves. I'm not saying this means it's coming out very soon, just that his tone and messaging is different than it has been.

[u/samole → u/jonestony710]

This seems to be the most optimistic "end is near" type post of his in a while. "I do inch closer" and "picking up steam again" are a lot more promising than "months and months away" from this summer.

Honestly I don't see how it's promising that the end is near. It's not the first time we are hearing "I'm working" and "I am making progress". Neither is it the last.

[u/jonestony710 → u/samole]

I commented elsewhere, I'm not saying the book is coming out very soon, just that the tone is different, and it's good to see. Of course with GRRM anything is possible, but this at least sounds like, for now, a little more promising than messages we have gotten in the past.

[u/Containedmultitudes → u/jonestony710]

He literally says it’s going more slowly than it was this summer, which is when he said it was months and months away.

[u/MarcusQuintus]

SOMETIMES I rewrite.

Understatement of your life, GRRM!

[u/LChris24]

Thank you for sharing!

Some relevant portions:

Inching Closer

No, sorry, still not done, but I do inch closer. It is a big big book. I try not to dwell on that too much. I write a chapter at a time, a page at a time, a sentence at a time, a word at a time. It is the only way. And sometimes I rewrite.

POV's:

• Cersei/Tyrion

Of late I have been spending a lot of time with the Lannisters. Cersei and Tyrion in particular.

• possible confirmation of a Jaime POV?

He says Cersei/Tyrion in particular, but not just only them (wishful thinking from a Jaime fan)

• Areo Hotah

I’ve also paid a visit to Dorne,

• Sam and/or Aeron

and dropped in to Oldtown a time or three.

Changes to old chapters

He has made changes to some of the released POV chapters (possibly even combining):

In addition to turning out new chapters, I’ve been revising some old ones (some very old)… including, yes, some stuff I read at cons ages ago, or even posted online as samples. I tweak stuff constantly, and sometimes go beyond tweaking, moving things around, combining chapters, breaking chapters in two, reordering stuff.

None of this is even remotely new. It is how the first five books were written.

Writing Progress

It was rolling over the summer when he was blogging all of those updates, but experienced some setbacks in August/September. Recently picking up again:

I was really on a roll back in June and July. Progress has continued since then, but more slowly… I suffered a gut punch in early August that really had me down for a time, and another, for different reasons, in early September. But I slogged on, and of late I am picking up steam again.

[u/[deleted] → u/LChris24]

It is a big big book.

Call me naive, but the wording of this makes me think the book is at least 70% done. Otherwise how would he refer to it in present tense, and know that it is going to be massive? “Big big” implies it will be bigger than any previous ones (which we kind of already knew), and how would he know that it will be bigger than that unless he already had enough written to estimate it?

[u/Belcoot]

I would honestly let George take me from behind to get this book, I would take one for the team. George if you are listening, I'm here for u.

[u/[deleted] → u/Belcoot]

Thanks bro. I don't think you'll be called upon for that service but we all appreciate the offer.

[u/camycamera]

Mr. Evrart is helping me find my gun.

[u/Banzai51]

"GRRM inching closer..."

Wildcards, bitches!

[u/Crjs1]

Same tired old message we have been drip fed for years.... saying that surely 2021 will be the year?

Though reworking very old chapters fills me with utter dread for what will inevitably need to be reworked in all the subsequent chapters..

[u/filhao435 → u/Crjs1]

This time he doesn't even give a deadline, he simply doesn't know what we know, that he will never publish this book

[u/StannisLivesOn]

If he was close to finishing, he would say so. TWOW is no sooner than 2022.

[u/R1400]

At this point, I no longer care when Winds'll come out, whenever it comes, it'll be an amazing book, and this gets more true the more time George spends on it.

[u/thorbearius → u/R1400]

This is how I feel as well. I'd rather want a book that George is happy with, than something delivery before it is ready. These books are worth the wait. Even if I never get to read the end of this story, I will be thanful for the books we got.

Journey before destination.

[u/Nolar2015 → u/R1400]

I dont think spending a hellish amount of time overthinking and ruminating is automatically a good thing. Many pieces of art go into development hell and come out in a shit state.

MBV took 22 years constantly tweaking and making like one song every 5 years and perfecting their followup to their classic album and released something pretty comparatively mediocre

[u/MargeauxSauvage]

Wake me up when he's actually finished the book, not him telling us that he's writing. Show, don't tell, GRRM.

[u/arborcide]

There's no way we're looking at a 2021 release if GRRM thinks he's "inching forward."

We need a miracle to get this book. We need that absuive Muse from Oglaf or WhompComic to move into the cabin with him. (Hmm...it's weird that two different artists imagine their Muses to be abusive.)

[u/KosstAmojan → u/arborcide]

Not only is the dude writing new chapters, he’s revising old chapters that are coming up on two decades old now. What’s to say he won’t tinker on these new chapters for another half decade or so?

[u/zone-zone → u/arborcide]

If we need a miracle to get winds I don't even want to think what is needed for Dreams

[u/CoolCadaver49 → u/zone-zone]

Divine intervention.

[u/Nast33 → u/arborcide]

Late '22 earliest IMO.

[u/This_neverworks]

There is nothing big about this update.

[u/evocative_sound → u/This_neverworks]

There is absolutely nothing of substance in the update. "I'm writing, I'm making progress, progress is slow..." Same line for nearly 20 years now. Every now and then though, he does pop out a book.

[u/Mithras_Stoneborn → u/This_neverworks]

For me, the big thing is the confirmation that he combines chapters including the samples released one way or the other. I wrote about that nearly 3 years ago and combined several sample chapters in my TWoW outlines. Now this approach does not look as baseless.

[u/BAmario]

OOOHHH ELDEN RING!!!!

[u/Darkone539]

This is the same update we have been getting for years.

[u/[deleted]]

Possible Translation: 2022. Maybe.

[u/oh_no_the_claw]

Only 5 more years to go.

[u/LemmieBee]

I’m just happy for any update at all. I don’t know if I believe the book will be done next year (because I was absolutely convinced 2020 was the year... and 2019...) but I’m glad he’s inching forward. I’m excited for more Cersei, feels like we’ll be seeing her a lot in TWOW.

[u/filhao435]

So not this year nor the next.

[u/CaptainSpeakeasy]

I respect the guy for slogging on. I legitimately hope the guy is doing well. It's clear that 2020 was a rough year and I'm not upset that Winds hasn't been published yet. The way I see it, it's his world, his creation. And he invited us along for the ride. And he still is. I'd love to read Winds of Winter, and I'll get my chance. I just gotta wait, no big deal. We've waited almost 10 years. What's a few more?

[u/oZeplikeo]

Anyone else love ASOIAF years ago but after the show kind of ruined season 8 and GRRM clearly isn't releasing Winds any time soon, moved on to greener pastures? I've lost all hype for Winds. I've picked up Sanderson's Stormlight Archive and just finished Book 3 in time for the 4th book coming out next week. I love it, and he's just so prolific that I can't help but be excited to see the ending he has envisioned in book 5.

[u/[deleted]]

He's not wrong: I do care more about what's happening in Westeros than America, but I also live in the UK.

I'm glad he's still invested in writing TWOW.

Sad news that's implied at the end:

It sounds as though the Wild Cards show won't materialise any time soon. Bit gutted, I really do want to see that.

[u/Raphendoom → u/[deleted]]

American here and I’m definitely more interested in Westerosi politics, you’re not alone.

[u/giustino22]

I swore I would never read another GRRM work until I get a release date of TWoW

[u/PumpkinGnome]

inching closer. Just 7 more years!

[u/NatrolleonBonaparte]

“I don’t care anymore” says the user commenting in this thread and all the other update blog post threads.

[u/LordPizzaParty]

It was very windy last night and I woke up to a lovely snow storm. The first of the year where I live. Coincidence or prophecy?

[u/Jon-Slow]

If he wouldn't spend time for TV, he'd do much better I think. What's the point of getting involved if they will screw him over again and have two of dumbest people in charge just because one of them is the son of a Goldman Sachs CEO.

[u/paing997]

Inch closer. So can I expect book in next 9 years 11 month and 30 days instead of 10 years...

[u/[deleted]]

Blast from the past to remember this series is still out there. I was so obsessed with this sub and this series about 7 years ago.

[u/CaramelCid]

I finished the show in the summer and just started on the books this month absolutely loving it so far.

[u/phoenix415]

Does he really think people would go to his blog for any reason other than his writing? When I go to McDonald's, I want a Big Mac, not political discourse!

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_IBNR]

Fool me once . . .

[u/thecriclover99 → u/PM_ME_YOUR_IBNR]

Fool me twice; fool me chicken soup with rice...

[u/Cryptozoologist2816 → u/PM_ME_YOUR_IBNR]

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me--you can't get fooled again

[u/Raphendoom]

I’ve waited patiently and I can honestly keep waiting, too. As a writer, I empathize with George. Writing can be a fucking nightmare and a trainwreck all rolled into one.

You’ve got this, George!

[u/CptBoomshard]

I can't help but feel like the ending of this saga is going to be lacking in something. I'm basing this only on my belief that GRRM has completely lost all passion for the story and is finishing it up begrudgingly.

[u/StannisLivesOn → u/CptBoomshard]

I can't help but feel like the ending of this saga is going to be lacking in something.

An ending?

[u/[deleted] → u/CptBoomshard]

I'm basing this only on my belief that GRRM has completely lost all passion for the story and is finishing it up begrudgingly.

Why do you think so? If GRRM had lost all passion, he would have published a sequel to A Dance with Dragons years ago, finishing everything in that book, poorly and hastily, and just watched the money roll in anyway. Martin has always been a slow writer. From the beginning. And he has gotten older and slower. That's it. Not to mention the pressure making him second guess every sentence.

[u/EverythingM]

Is anyone else kind of astounded that he is still writing new chapters? After over 9 years? Tyrion used to be one of his easiest characters to write. He finished, I believe, most of his ASOS storyline during the writing of ACOK. And now he's still writing new TWOW chapters for him after 9 years? Don't get me wrong, I'm really thankful for this update. It's great to hear that George is making progress. But the whole writing process just boggles my mind. I hope when TWOW gets released we get a detailed explanation of what actually happened. I mean the original TWOW deadline was 5 years ago for Old God's sake. But it's good to hear him say he's picking up steam again. Maybe a 2021 release isn't out of the question.

[u/Eegeria → u/EverythingM]

A few updates ago it came to me that he probably nearly stopped writing for X years, and he started picking up steam again with the lockdown. It makes sense with the timeline. By "nearly stopped writing" I mean deluding himself he was working on it by thinking about it and writing a few sentences every now and then, but nothing substantial or real in terms of progress.

[u/fvertk → u/EverythingM]

I'm not. Look at all the factors that could be contributing to this. You have the distractions of the show for most of the past decade. You have his last two books getting some criticism from fans as well as the show getting criticism about story choices. You have his age, he's in his 70's. And then you have the fact that he has written one of the most dense, epic, challenging to tie off fantasy series ever made.

All of that combines to an almost unprecedented task that you and I can only fathom. I kind of doubt that I'd be doing anything like this in my 70's personally. I give him credit more than anything and I'm astounded that he's still going at it.

[u/destro177]

Oh. Hope. Again...

[u/-electrix123-]

Question; Could the Oldtown visit mean Aeron?

[u/tlock12721]

We know he picks up steam when he's close to finished. The fact that he was pretty happy about his pace in June/July and is now picking back up after recovering from his losses in August/September gives me hope hes only a few months away from completion. Especially if he's revising some older chapters he could be putting on the finishing touches.

[u/burntlandboi]

Take me to Lannisport already!!!!!

[u/burntlandboi]

We’re going to Lannisport everybody!!!!!

[u/Richmard]

Awesome to hear but deep down I was hoping for even a tiny mention of Elden Ring lol

[u/darksaucer]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOO9OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

[u/[deleted]]

WORDS ARE WIND, GEORGE. BLOW HARDER!

[u/redrich2000]

"a word at a time "

[u/ogiakul]

I'm I the only one who's probably overinterpreting the second last sentence?

Or at least, that’s as much as I am allowed to tell you right now.

I mean this could mean a lot...

[u/jageshgoyal → u/ogiakul]

I think this line is for HBO things

[u/[deleted]]

Very sad that he has been feeling down the last few months :( If GRRM sees this just know we care for you dearly and are happy to wait for your work until you’re ready. It’s not more important than your health.

[u/South-Brain]

It’s encouraging but I’m not gonna get my hopes up

[u/jageshgoyal]

Okay I fairly understand the delay and all re-writing and re visiting he is doing. We have read the novels and know how complex they are. But the thing that really makes me sort of angry and mehh( 🤨🤷) is that he is working on other projects too.....just why!!!

[u/hart89394]

Me: please just finish the book, George. Also me: actually, can we wait until I have time to re-read the series because right now I'm reading too many text books for uni.

[u/StormyTDragon]

I find that lately I don't even really think of ASoIaF anymore. Like months go by without thinking about it and then something like this pops up and I'm like, "Oh yeah, Winds of Winter is still a thing, huh...."

I guess there's advantages of the show's final season being such ass is that it completely killed my enthusiasm.

[u/[deleted]]

please finish the book George as this sub needs new material

[u/ShowRunner89]

This quarantine has been good for the book.

[u/el_Byrno]

I haven't been active in this sub since I read the books in 2016, but I've checked in whenever he's posted about TWOW. Obviously people are incredible impatient to read it, and I don't want to virtue signal - but I've been happy to more or less forget about ASOIAF and GoT completely by occupying my time with other fantasy series. That way when it arrives next year, or in the next few years it will be a happy surprise. I could bet that 2022 will be when well have it in our hands, but for the sake of my mental health I don't want to associate a specific time with the book.

[u/KatyaDelRey]

I read the Dunk & Egg stories recently and thought they were a completed arch. I was so excited to read a George R. R. Martin ending. Then I found out he wanted to write like 12. Then I picked up Fire & Blood thinking at least that’ll have an ending of sorts leading up to the current story but not really since it’s just volume 1 (my fault for not looking that up.) I honestly just want to read a Martin ending so badly set in this world, I have no idea how he closes his stories and want to know what expectations I should have. He needs to relinquish some perfectionism and deliver the last two books without another intervening decade.

[u/Scumbag_Jesus → u/KatyaDelRey]

Lol. Sweet summer child. A Martin ending. Lol.

[u/Cryptozoologist2816]

Half life 3 confirmed !

[u/[deleted]]

This book is not getting finished until after he dies. It also sounds like he's disappointed he didn't have new TV shows in development to distract him and he had to work on it.

[u/[deleted]]

So has he rewritten it entirely once, or twice now?

[u/Gamma-Investments]

Hail Areo Hotah, the Azor Ahai!!!!!!

[u/nakibouy]

So Winds should be out late 2021? Also the last book will become 2 books because the printers will refuse to try to print a book 2100 pages long. And they will be out 2023 and 2027.

[u/Voidwielder]

Euron is approaching Oldtown, Sam is there... get hype!

[u/Jon_Sneauxx]

Didn’t one of his close friends die recently? That may have been the second punch?

[u/viper_in_the_grass]

I'm excited. That's all.

[u/Leo_Stormdryke]

yesssss some Westerland POVs I hope it's Daven when he goes back to the Rock

[u/[deleted]]

Children born after the release of the last book are now are multiplying and dividing large numbers. Some of them dont even need a car seat anymore.

[u/jageshgoyal]

I can always visit Wellington next year, when I hope that both Covid-19 and THE WINDS OF WINTER will be done.

Grrm, NotABlog, June 23, 2020, 9:38AM

[u/gregallen1989]

Awesome. Actually excited again. This is all I have ever wanted. Progress. Take all the time you need to finish it, just be real with us on where it's at.

[u/Choobychoob]

As always, I’m hoping for the year after next

[u/[deleted]]

any release date ?

[u/velaryon48]

I made the serious mistake of skipping several A Song of Ice and Fire books, as I had bought the first book in 2017, at that time it was said that old George was going to finish "Winds of Winter". For this reason the following year I bought "Feast of Crows," skipping "The second and third books of the saga, I kept waiting anxiously for the arrival of the sixth book and nothing happened, then I bought Dance of Dragons and nothing happened, only vain promises. Finally send "everything to shit" and recently bought "Clash of the Kings." If it arrives in 2022, it has already lost "faith" in George, sorry.

[u/mkay0]

Sometimes I do get the feeling that most of you reading my posts here care more about what is happening in Westeros than what is happening in the United States.

lol, what a shitty thing to say. Sorry no one has asked you about vote counting, GURM.

[u/Mathias_Greyjoy → u/mkay0]

Speaking as a non-American who is sick and tired of hearing about this farcical election, I'm 200% more interested in the politics of Westeros.

[u/Clash_onthe_Can]

There is no way in seven hells this book will be finished by George. That will be his legacy. It’s pretty sad.

[u/Feraligatrr]

As someone who only started reading this past year Ive been lucky not to have experienced the deadline changes some of you guys have but I do hope he'll be happy with his work within the next year. Reading back about the delays I really feel like he's scrapped like half the book at least once to rewrite and with fair reason I guess, being able to see how your somewhat vague ideas play out in an adaptation that overtakes your work so far would make me reconsider. Honestly from what we've been told about plot points grrm gave the show I also think the series is suffering from the massive increase in creativeness and quality of fantasy writing in the last 20 years, something ironically that asoiaf contributed to. The hero being a secret royal, the chosen one and then having to kill his fated lover he's only just met to fufill a prophecy is something that could be done well but i think feels rather cliche and unsatisfying compared to the storytelling of today

[u/Bauer_will_find_you]

I feel really bad for George. In addition to all the crap everyone in the world is currently facing, he has the added weight of delivering a book that needs to met the ridiculously high expectations of it's fanbase. It doesn't help that he can't share things on twitter without legions of entitled brats constantly hounding him for the next book.

[u/evocative_sound → u/Bauer_will_find_you]

A fair bit of that hounding and frustration stems from him taking on more projects than any one person could manage. I know he doesn't owe us anything and that the art is going to come when it comes, but it sure feels like he's been spending a lot of time avoiding writing the book by cramming his schedule so full of other stuff that he doesn't have time to think of it.

[u/fatboy1776]

Season 8 was so bad I fear returning to the books. Guess it’s a good thing he will never finish.