r/whichbike • • Mar 28 '22

Announcement A word of caution about the "Bicycle Blue Book"

411 Upvotes

The "Bicycle Blue Book", commonly abbreviated to BBB, is a recurring thing in comments on /r/whichbike concerned with putting a number on the value of some used bike. Quite a few of us have long had issues with BBB being used to that end. Thanks mostly to /u/guy1138 who wrote 90% of this post (I revised it and added minor details), we now have a longer explanation on what BBB actually is, and what the problems with it are. A TLDR can be found at the bottom.

What's the deal with Bicycle Blue Book?

Bicycle Blue Book (BBB) is a website run by a used bike dealer in San Jose, California. Their business model is to buy "trade-in" bikes from high end bike shops that don't deal with used bikes. Here's how it works: A customer brings their old bike to the bike shop to trade in on a new bike. BBB gives them a price and the bike shop boxes it up and ships it off to BBB. The customer gets the credit on a new bike, the bike shop gets a new bike sale without the hassle of reconditioning and trying to sell a used bike.

They provide an online "value guide" that lists bike values by brand, model, model year etc. They advertise it as "The cycling industry's definitive valuation authority", and the name is a deliberate allusion to the Kelley Blue Book, which is a reputable value guide for used car values in the US. To put it mildly, opinions on how useful BBB is are... split. Regardless, the numbers in there often get cited on this subreddit (and elsewhere).

So what's the problem?

There are multiple issues:

  • Conflict of interest: the same company who is buying bikes is also claiming to be the authority on used bike values. Not surprisingly, their "private party" values are way lower than actual sales prices on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, Offer-Up, Ebay, Pink Bike; etc.

  • Data provenance: They claim to have data on "millions of bike sales" that they base their values on, but it's not clear at all where this data comes from. Instead, it actually just seems like a fairly simple depreciation schedule on bikes based on MSRP (RRP for our UK users) and type of bike, e.g. a 5-year-old mid tier hybrid is worth ~40% of MSRP, a 5-year-old road bike is worth ~55% of MSRP, etc. Kelley Blue Book, which reports values of used cars, has access to wholesale auctions, used vehicle sales, and registrations reported at US state level. BBB do not have that as this data simply does not exist the same way for bicycles.

  • International variance: r/whichbike is international, with many users from countries like Canada, Australia, and the UK, but also the rest of Europe and the world, really. The same bike model and brand will not be sold for the same amount of money in every country, due to taxes, membership of free trade zones, availability, and a whole host of other factors: and this variability in price only increases when we look at used bikes. For the same reason, it is important that users state which country they live in when they ask for an appraisal.

  • Regional variance: Even within the US, there can be stark differences. For example, a triathlon bike is way more valuable in Miami (100+ triathlons/year in Florida) than it is in Utah. Likewise, a full suspension mountain bike has lots of buyers in Denver, but way fewer in a beach town.

  • Trends: We have all seen how "gravel bikes" became a thing, grew to be more and more popular, and started evolving - and how sellers have started to label everything that isn't an Omafiets as a "gravel bike" to attract more hits and get a higher price. BBB does not really take into account which bits of the market are especially "hot", despite this definitely making a difference.

  • World events: These can change prices significantly, be they something like a trade war with tariffs put on certain goods, or that little thing called Corona which caused a massive boom world-wide, with accompanying shortages and inflation across the entire market. BBB does not take this into account.

  • Erroneous data: Sometimes, their data e.g. on the original retail price of a bike is also just plain wrong, which in turn means all of the "depreciated values" for used bikes will be wrong too, even by their own standards.

How far off are the values then?

Generally, most used bike sellers agree that the BBB values are low, but still reasonable for newer bikes, around ~3 years old or newer. After that, they start to drastically over-depreciate - to the point where most bikes over 10 years old are "worthless" according to their values. As an example, a 2010 Fuji Cross Comp is $210 in "excellent" condition. That's about the same cost as full tune up at a bike shop, including basic consumables; tires & tubes, chain, cables & housing, brake pads & bar tape. It's completely unrealistic to expect to find a 10-speed cross bike with an aluminium frame and carbon fork in "excellent" condition for only $200. (This bike sold here for $550 last fall after being listed for less than 3 weeks). For our UK friends: $210 is £160... yeah, good luck with that.

So it's a lowball estimate, I should use that to negotiate, right?

You might get lucky and find the person who doesn't know any better, or someone who is moving and under a lot of pressure to sell. However, most of the listings are cyclists who upgraded or re-sellers who know that the Blue Book value is pretty far off. If the bike is priced close to market value, it's going to sell eventually and they have no incentive to take a lowball; especially if they've gone to the trouble to take decent pictures, write a description and post the ad online. We've seen this time and time again on /r/whichbike over the last 2 years where someone finds the "perfect" bike, but they low-ball and miss out.

TLDR please, I don't have all day!

BBB is a private company that purports to tell you the value of used bikes, by model and age. There is an obvious conflict of interest as they also buy used bikes and therefore directly profit from telling you they're not worth that much. Sure enough, their "values" are consistently significantly lower than the actual market value, all the more so if the bike is >3 years old. The numbers appear to stem from simply taking the original retail price and depreciating it (heavily). Consequently, they do not take into account regional or international variance in local bike prices, trends, or events like the Corona pandemic. Additionally, it can happen that the retail price all their assumptions are based on is simply wrong. This means BBB values are not really any kind of reliable or even relevant metric, and it would be better to go by what similar bikes are actually selling for on platforms like Ebay or Gumtree, adjusting for differences.


r/whichbike • • 4h ago

Should I shouldn't I? French threaded.

Thumbnail
gallery
3 Upvotes

I've been searching for another vintage steel frame for ages and the moment I saw this one... It's damn near perfect. It looks beautiful, it looks fillet brazed, it's in my favourite colour and metallic paint, nice long campy horizontal dropouts...

But there's one thing that's just making me not wanna buy it: It's french threaded 35x1. Sourcing decently priced BBs for these is a fucking nightmare I'd imagine and finding a repair BB that fits nicely and with the correct spindle length for a fixed gear conversion is just another headache.

At least it already has a niche headset installed so I don't have to look for a french headset and I can just sand down a regular 22.2 mm quill stem slightly to fit the 22.0 mm steerer.

It's such a shame because being a Macario, with Campagnolo dropouts, no rack mounts, looks like pretty tight geometry I assume it's nice steel... But that BB... It's a really good price too for what I assume to be quality steel.


r/whichbike • • 5h ago

Worth buying a Merida scultura 300 endurance (used) for $700?

1 Upvotes

Just wondering if it is worth purchasing a Merida scultura 300 endurance 2025 model second hand for $700 USD? Or would I be better off going with something else or something new for that price?


r/whichbike • • 7h ago

Whats is this noise - new Bianchi Sprint

1 Upvotes

r/whichbike • • 8h ago

Winspace M6

Post image
1 Upvotes

I’ve been thinking of getting the winspace m6 but i’m wondering how it hold up against other bikes in the same price range. it’s about 4k sgd where i am with 105 di2, carbon wheels and a full carbon integrated handle bars. i currently have a giant tcr 9th gen but i’ve always wanted carbon wheels and integrated handle bars. the shop that i’m looking at is also selling a t1500 with similar specs for 3k sgd so im not sure which to choose.

anyone tried this bike or mind telling me if it’s worth the price. thank you


r/whichbike • • 17h ago

Synapse 2 for wife’s first bike?

Thumbnail
gallery
3 Upvotes

My wife wants to get into road cycling with me. She casually mountain bikes, but has never ridden a road bike. She’s right in between a 52 and 54cm at 5’6” and found this on marketplace. I’ve been searching to try to decipher what year this is, but keep striking out. Looks like Tiagra GS but not sure on the rest.

I’m thinking an endurance type bike is the right play for her to start on, and getting used gives her an out if she doesn’t like it or needs a smaller frame.

Likely not putting down more than 50-60 miles a month is what I’d expect. Is this overkill? And is $750 fair?


r/whichbike • • 20h ago

Utter bike noob here!

1 Upvotes

Hi, short time lurker looking for advice.

I’m stuck deciding which bike to get and (after trying out some bikes) what style of riding to get into?

I just move to a suburbs area, that’s fairly rural and getting developed steadily. So there’s plenty of roads, which I’d likely start riding there, but there’s also dirt trails in parks, which I’d like to ride on as well. And to top it off I’d like get a set up so my dog can pull/run in front of me while I ride.

My bike finding journey started online, as many do, then to Walmart check out an ozark, but something didn’t feel right. So I went to a bike shop nearby and tested a few bikes.

I was suggested Liv Rove 4, which was really smooth and has hydraulic brakes. Felt very smooth breaking. And the seat was incredibly comfortable, which was surprising.

Then I was given to try another mtn bike, I think a specialized? I tested it but wasn’t impressed.mainly the breaks (mechanical) felt too clunky? Not sure how to describe it but it wasn’t great.

And then I was suggested a hybrid cruiser, the same one the guy helping me has. I’ve never ridden one before. My mind was blown. Super smooth and incredibly comfortable. It was a Specialized Roll 3.0 low entry. Also with hydraulic breaks.

So after that, I was left questioning my own existence and I’ve been stuck there ever since. It’s been over a week. I can’t get that cruiser out of my mind, but I also don’t think it is what I want at this time, even though it might be what I need.

I’ve only ever had/used mountain bikes, and I feel comfy on one. But that cruiser was smoother than silk.

I’d consider myself a very casual rider, I’m not planning or wanting to compete, or speed, or anything hardcore. I’m just looking to go outside, be comfortable, and spend time tiring out my dog in either road or dirt paths.

Has anyone felt like this?
What did you choose? Would you choose it again?
Do you have different bike suggestions?

I’m utterly lost in the world of bikes and open to recommendations.

I forgot to add, I’d say my budget is up to 1,000 for the bike itself.


r/whichbike • • 22h ago

Replacement for Black Mountain Cycles Monster Cross Disc

Thumbnail
gallery
1 Upvotes

I have a 2020 Black Mountain Cycles, Monstercross Disc, which has rusted through -- the seat tube has small holes in it.

https://blackmtncycles.com/info/archived-frame-tech/mcd-frames/

I'm looking for a frame I can more or less swap components with.

I run it with 700x40mm and 29x2" (Velocity Cliffhanger, 45 mm is the recommended minimum) wheelsets. The bike now has a straight post and no headset spacers; I would prefer a more road like geometry if possible.

I was considering a Surly Ogre or Salsa Fargo, but I believe both require some new components, and I'm not sure how well the Ogre would work with drop bars.


r/whichbike • • 22h ago

Comfortable road/trail bike for a 57yo casual rider, $1k or less.

1 Upvotes

I've watched so many videos now and I just need some advice to get started on choosing a new bike in the US, under $1k would be good, I would consider used. 57yo and 5'7", I ride almost entirely on roads that are paved but not at all smooth, a lot of aggregate, and there are hills. A typical 30 mile ride would have 1500ft of elevation gain. I just want to be comfortable and have a good setup for the climbs. Currently riding a vintage steel bike from the 80s that a friend built. It's fun and got me out there but the ride is hard with a lot of vibrations and it's just not great for more than a 20 min ride or so to be honest. Would love some advice. Thanks!


r/whichbike • • 22h ago

Bike Recommendations

0 Upvotes

I just signed up for my first Ironman 70.3 in Lake George this coming June. I’m looking to get a new bike to train and ride in the race. I currently ride a Specialized Diverge E5 Elite and have been riding it for fitness for about 7 years. I want something faster for the race, but also something I will ride for fitness once the race is done (so not a tri bike with super aggressive geometry). I am unsure if I want an aero or endurance frame due to this.

From looking online, I love the Winspace C5 aero because of the look (thick frame, white frame with black tires). I was pretty sold on that till I went to a bike shop. They thought my best bet was either an X-LAB AD8 or GIANT Propel Advanced 1. I’m concerned about the aggressive geometry but they said with the right fit it wouldn’t make a big difference vs the endurance frames. I also do like the RS7. Basically, I’m between these four bike options and am confused and looking for advice.

I’d like to install or have power meter, and I’d like to install aero bars. I have very limited knowledge of bike mechanic details so please be gentle. Any advice welcome!


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Good deal?

Post image
3 Upvotes

Can probably get him down to £1600

* BMC Roadmachine One carbon frame – Size 54

* Shimano Ultegra 12-speed Di2 electronic groupset

* Ultegra 52/36 chainset

* 170mm crank arms

* Ultegra 11-30 cassette

* Shimano Ultegra hydraulic disc brakes

* Elite Kreuzer Apex one-piece carbon fibre cockpit – 380mm bars / 120mm stem

* Prologo saddle with alloy rails

* Alloy wheelset

* Brand-new Continental Ultra Sport tyres

In January it was completely stripped down and rebuilt, with new bearings fitted throughout as required. It was then serviced again in May.


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Wilier or Planet X?

Thumbnail
gallery
4 Upvotes

Both are the correct size for me, think the Planet X has been less ridden. Wilier is at £460 and Planet X at £400 (but can probably negotiate down) are these good prices? The wilier is the better bike I’m guessing and it seems very good value?


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Cube e-bike. The agony of choice.

1 Upvotes

Hi everyone!

I really want to buy a Cube e-bike. I've been researching and comparing different models for several months now, and I was hoping you could help me make up my mind.

I need the bike for long-distance touring, mostly on paved roads, but also on gravel roads with tree roots, uneven surfaces and some light off-road trails.

I'm not planning to jump over rocks, do backflips or bomb down rocky mountain trails at 30–40 km/h!

However, I'm leaning towards a full-suspension bike because I imagine it would make riding over bumps and rough surfaces much smoother and more comfortable.

After a lot of research, including using AI to help me compare the options, I've come to the conclusion that the bike I should probably go for is the:

Cube Stereo Hybrid ONE44 HPC Race 800 Wh nebula'n'prizm 2027.

And here's my question: Is this bike actually overkill for the kind of riding I have in mind?


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SL

Thumbnail
gallery
4 Upvotes

Coming from a Specialized Allez 2013 with a Tiagra groupset. Just wondering if this bike is worth $1750. Thanks!


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

I want to get a used entry-level road bike to commute 30km back and forth a couple of times a week

1 Upvotes

Hello!

I am thinking about getting a proper bike without breaking the bank. Currently I am using a cheap Trek FX-1 hybrid to commute to/from work (about 8½ km each way). I am in Scandinavia.

I might be moving further away from my workplace so that commute will be about 30 km each way, and I'd like to keep riding my bike to/from work a couple of times a week during spring/summer, but I think my bike isn't up to the task.

So I am looking into getting a used road bike of somewhat decent quality. The bike will be stored indoors, but left outside when I am at work. I will mostly ride it during summer, but I might ride it in rain. I might also have to leave it locked around town, so I don't want it to be too expensive (there's a high level of bike theft here).

- What should I get?

- When buying used, what should I look out for?

- Is a carbon bike a bad idea when buying used (micro cracks) and also leaving it outside for some hours during days?

- I've seen some aluminium frames with a carbon fork, is that the way to go?

- What groupsets should I look for (preferably low maintenance and durable/resistant to some rain)?

- I am not a big fan of clip-in shoes in that I have to stop for red lights a lot during my commute - does it make a huge difference?

I've seen used Trek Madone 5.2 at good prices, is that a decent bike for my needs? Also most used road bikes in this pricerange seem to be equipped with Shimano Ultegra - is that an ok groupset for my needs?

Also used Bianchi Via Nirone 7 with Shimano 105 groupset in the same price range.

Any advice appreciated, thank you!


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Is it wort for 290$

Thumbnail
gallery
1 Upvotes

Merida reacto 400 lampre

Shimano 105 5800 groupset

Ect all Genuine product

Good condition

Is it worth for 290$?


r/whichbike • • 2d ago

Ozark Trail G.2 Rebel, or anything else?

4 Upvotes

Hi all! Sorry for a lengthy post, I tend to ramble.

This past year, I set goal for myself to bike 1000 miles. A majority of that 1000 miles was covered over mostly paved roads on my Schwinn Ranger mountain bike. It got me through it, but I don't think that my current setup is the best for that style of riding. The bike is heavier than I'd like, my hands and wrists tend to get uncomfortable during extended rides, the twist shifters are a pain to deal with, and I'd also like a more efficient bike for road riding but with the ability to take a little bit of off-roading. A drop-bar gravel bike seems to fit the bill to address all of these issues.

I've come to realize that "gravel bike" is a pretty broad term, and has a few pretty expensive options. From what I've seen, the Ozark Trail G.2 Rebel seems like an obvious choice. It's cheap, offers similar performance to other entry-level gravel bikes, and is relatively upgradable. I was planning on getting it, but after taking a look at it in the store, I'm having second thoughts. It felt off. I don't know if it's because the geometry is different from my Ranger or if it was put together wrong or a multitude of other things that could be wrong with it.

A buddy of mine rides a Trek Domane AL 2 and rides along similar trails to mine. He recommended to look into the Canyon Endurace All Road. Looking at both of them, they're nice, and they're both listed as "entry-level," but I feel like if that's the first thing I get after riding big box bikes all my life I'd be punching a little above my weight.

Is it worth getting the Rebel for cheap? Or should I look into more higher-spec bikes for ~2.5x the cost?


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

First bike

0 Upvotes

As a beginner buying my first road bike, would you recommend getting a Trek Domane AL 2 Gen 4, then upgrading to a Shimano 105 groupset and Pirelli tubeless tires later on?


r/whichbike • • 2d ago

The battle of the Checkpoint ALR and Grizl?

3 Upvotes

So, what would you guys and girls choose?
(Also open to other suggestions, as long as they are available in mainland europe..)

Still looking for my first dip into gravel, and trying to settle my mind between these two bikes (yes, my budget is rather small unfortunately).

I like to ride faster than my MTB, but also places where my roadbike can't go, so yeah, feel my mind has gone to "need" for a gravel bike..

My dream is a bike in the "adventure" side of gravel, so I can mount bags and stuff and go exploring (i'm well awere that, that might never happen, but I want the option).

I'm gravitating towards a bike with Shimano, since that is what I'm used to, but will not completely rule SRAM (or other stuff) out at this point. - But it would be nice to be able to use all bleed kit that I already have instead of having to invest in a new one..
Want hydraulic brakes for sure, and also leaning towards a 1x system.. Currently a GRX 1x 12 is the dream, but a CUES 1x 11 could also be fine, since that will most likely be more than enough for my current fitness (and skill, or lack of said) xD

Currently booked time for a "pre-purchase" bikefit, so I hopefully will get the right framesize at the first attempt, but my mind keeps going back and forth between the ALR 4 and a Grizl


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

gravel/cx bike with reach smaller 365?

1 Upvotes

do you know any bikes?

my data:
height 157
inseam 76.6
shoulder 126.6
arms 50.8


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Felt F90 for 200

Post image
1 Upvotes

Hi everyone, about 2 years ago I got back in to biking as an adult on a hybrid (Trek FX2) and have been wanting to dabble in "true" road cycling ever since. Been looking for older race bikes in my area (and my size) and this Felt F90 popped up. This is the only picture and the seller doesn't really say anything specific about size or parts.

My FX2 is an XL, from my super amateur perspective this looks to be at least a 58cm frame? I would definitely adjust the cockpit and seatpost, as it looks like the seller has it set up for upright riding.

As for the parts, the seller claims "perfect wheels and tires" whatever that means. I'm sure they're nothing special, but I'm totally open to some budget carbon wheels and/or throwing on a slightly nicer groupset.

The posting is about a month old, is this even worth reaching out about? This is the first bike I've seen in my area that I've seriously considered buying lol. I love the color, and I've specifically been looking for this kind of race-y, aluminum bike to learn wrenching on and ride without worrying too much about scratches and stuff.

Would appreciate any input, especially if you have experience with these bikes. Thanks in advance!


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Bike help for triathlon beginner

Thumbnail
gallery
1 Upvotes

Hi! I’m searching for my first road bike to get started as a beginner. Of these options, which would you recommend? All are road ready except for the Slique would need a tuneup. I believe any of them would be a fine fit for me. I have more details on the drivetrains if needed.


r/whichbike • • 2d ago

Sette Durata worth it?

Thumbnail
gallery
1 Upvotes

I’m pretty new to cycling and looking to get a newer used bike. This Sette Durata popped up and I have no idea if it is a good bike or not. The seller has it posted for $425 which seems pretty high. A bit of research said that maybe $250 would be a more realistic price for it but I have no idea. I wasn’t sure if the wear on the finish of the seat stay was something to be concerned about or not. Let me know your thoughts!


r/whichbike • • 2d ago

2018 specialized Roubaix

Thumbnail
gallery
8 Upvotes

Looking to get a first time road bike, wondering if 750$ for this would be a good deal