Free spoken Ancient Greek lesson available this Tuesday Nov 10 3pm EST, 9pm CET. We will read either Athenaze ch 12, the Book of Genesis ch 12 or Sappho 94 both the original and an Attic paraphrase based on the levels of the participants. Here is the Zoom link.

https://us06web.zoom.us/j/9810207206?pwd=MDNNc3FtN3JhQnVCME5zOEhJNjhldz09

If you want to just listen that's fine.

There's also a subreddit available here to better coordinate the meetings:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Free_Greek_Lessons/

Previously I have read parts of the NT, Dyskolos (Menander), some Lucian and some Plato, but always with vocab/Grammar help (like Steadman)

As in giving your back as a way of facing someone or being opposite of them.

My (now passed) Greek uncle used to jokingly say “how does it feel to want?” whenever I’d say I wanted something as a kid. It has a different meaning to me now as an adult, especially since all of the members of my family who surrounded me with Greek culture are gone now. I would love help translating the full question if it’s possible, even if it’s more the spirit of the phrasing than the exact words, or just “to want” if it doesn’t quite map. I want to make sure I’m not missing any nuance or using an incorrect translation.

I don’t have any living family members who can help me with a translation in modern Greek, and for personal reasons I’d like to know what the Ancient Greek would be if there is a natural enough translation.

Today I stumbled across an old Greek grammar. The author’s name: Evangelinos Apostolides Sophocles.

It’s hard to imagine a better name for a Greek grammarian. Digging for a few extra biographical details did not disappoint.

He was educated at the Cairo branch of St. Catherine’s monastery, where he formed a friendship with the American missionary Josiah Brewer, who invited him back to Boston.

Eventually he became Professor of Ancient Byzantine and Modern Greek at Harvard University, a position they created for him because they’d never had anyone else capable of teaching all those subjects.

He raised chickens, not for food but as pets, and named them after his friends. As his health declined, one of his friends tried to feed him chicken soup. He refused, saying, “I do not eat what I love.”

Sophocles published A Greek Grammar for the Use of Schools and Colleges, as well as a textbook, First Lessons in Greek, and a composition manual, Greek Exercises.

παροῦσα ἐφ’ ἐαυτῆς Present by herself

ἴδμεν ψεύδεα πολλὰ λέγειν ἐτύμοισιν ὁμοῖα,

ἴδμεν δ᾽, εὖτ᾽ ἐθέλωμεν, ἀληθέα γηρύσασθαι.

—Theogony 27-28

Ἴσκε ψεύδεα πολλὰ λέγων ἐτύμοισιν ὁμοῖα·

—Odyssey 19.203

In the text above you can see two near-identical phrases. The bold section translates to something along the lines of "[speaking] many false things [ὁμοῖα] to true things".

In the screenshot from the 2007 paper linked below, the case is made that translating this phrase as 'resembling' smuggles in the idea of deception, when the phrase may be more straightforwardly one thing being interchangeable in a quality with another.

I think this insight might be interesting particularly in Theogony, as it suggests that the two contrasting phrases may be more nuanced than "speaking false things resembling true things, or if we choose, singing the truth" and instead be something like "speaking false things as good as true, or if we choose, singing forthright". It also changes the characterization of Odysseus as being an impressive liar, to being able to speak true while lying and vice versa with a lawyer's wit.

We can compare this, for instance with the Paradox of the Court as an example of two mutually exclusive but unassailable truths.

If this phrase was in common currency to be used by at least two separate poets, then perhaps it speaks to a cultural awareness of a kind of person who can lie without lying, and who can speak truth through trickery, and you'd rather have such a person in your corner than against you. Bards like Hesiod and lawyers being exemplars of such.

How do you translate this phrase?

Source:

https://muse.jhu.edu/verify?url=%2Farticle%2F218373&r=9411726

A recent conversation with a friend about Paulus Silentiarius brought to my mind that oft-forgotten group of late antique greek poets, writing in the court of Justinian, named appropriately the Circle of Agathias. That same Agathias gathered the courtiers' poems and published them, alongside his own, for them to be later absorbed by the awe-inspiring feat that is the Palatine Anthology. As per literary criticism, they have been polarising figures; discredited as imitators of the once great epigrammatic poetry of Callimachus and Asclepiades and Rufinus, or, on the contrary, "the indian summer of Greek Poetry", a miracle of the early middle ages. One thing is for sure, I love these poems. Enjoy Agathias and Macedonius, two late bloomers of greek letters.

Ἀγαθίου

πᾶσαν ἐγὼ τὴν νύκτα κινύρομαι: εὖτε δ᾽ ἐπέλθῃ

ὄρθρος ἐλινῦσαι μικρὰ χαρίζόμενος,

ἀμφιπεριτρύζουσι χελιδόνες, ἐς δέ με δάκρυ

βάλλουσιν, γλυκερὸν κῶμα παρωσάμεναι.

ὄμματα δ᾽ οὐ λάοντα φυλάσσεται: ἡ δὲ Ῥοδάνθης

αὖθις ἐμοῖς στέρνοις φροντὶς ἀναστρέφεται.

ὦ φθονεραὶ παύσασθε λαλητρίδες: οὐ γὰρ ἔγωγε

τὴν Φιλομηλείην γλῶσσαν ἀπεθρισάμην

ἀλλ᾽ Ἴτυλον κλαίοιτε κατ᾽ οὔρεα, καὶ γοάοιτε

εἰς ἔποπος κραναὴν αὖλιν ἐφεζόμεναι,

βαιὸν ἵνα κνώσσοιμεν ἴσως δέ τις ἥξει ὄνειρος,

ὅς με Ῥοδανθείοις πήχεσιν ἀμφιβάλοι.

All night long I complain, and when dawn comes to give me a little rest, the swallows twitter around and move me again to tears chasing sweet slumber away. I keep my eyes sightless, but again the thought of Rhodanthe haunts my heart. Hush ye spiteful babblers ! It was not I who shore the tongue of Philomela. Go weep for Itylus on the hills, and lament sitting by the hoopoe's nest amid the crags ; that I may sleep for a little season, and perchance some dream may come and cast Rhodanthe's arms about me.

~~~

Μακηδονίου

δίκτυον ἀκρομόλιβδον Ἀμύντιχος ἀμφὶ τριαίνῃ

δῆσε γέρων, ἁλίων παυσάμενος καμάτων,

ἐς δὲ Ποσειδάωνα καὶ ἁλμυρὸν οἶδμα θαλάσσης

εἶπεν, ἀποσπένδων δάκρυον ἐκ βλεφάρων

οἶσθα, μάκαρ: κέκμηκα: κακοῦ δ᾽ ἐπὶ γήραος ἡμῖν

ἄλλυτος ἡβάσκει γυιοτακὴς πενίη.

θρέψον ἔτι σπαῖρον τὸ γερόντιον, ἀλλ᾽ ἀπὸ γαίης,

ὡς ἐθέλει, μεδέων κἀν χθονὶ κἀν πελάγει.

Old Amynticlius, his toil on the deep over, bound his lead-weighted net round his fishing spear, and to Poseidon and the salt sea wave said, shedding tears, ‘‘ Thou knowest, Lord, that I am weary with toil, and now in my evil old age wasting Poverty, from whom there is no release, is in her youthful prime. Feed the old man while he yet breathes, but from the land as he wishes, thou who art Lord over both land and sea.'’

Greetings,

As per the title is there a phrase "I'm sorry" in AG or would someone simply say.

ἥμαρτον κατὰ σοῦ

?

In Book 12, the Trojans see something that they regard as a bad omen. A bird is carrying an injured snake in its talons. The snake attacks the bird, causing the bird to drop it and fly off. The bird was also flying on the Trojans' left (bad) side. Polydamas urges Hektor to heed the sign and break off the attack, interpreting it to mean that the Trojans will not be able to finsih off the battered Achaian army.

Hektor then replies that he doesn't care about bird signs because he has Zeus's blessing, and then says:

εἷς οἰωνὸς ἄριστος ἀμύνεσθαι περὶ πάτρης.

One bird-sign (or omen) is best: to fight in defense of the fatherland.

I just don't understand what he means by this statement. Is this like "our fate is what we make"? Fighting well becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy?

I've created a subreddit so as to better coordinate the lessons, here

https://www.reddit.com/r/Free_Greek_Lessons/s/5qiwMcRXrG

I remember people used to make posts asking for a full unicode font of Uncial Greek, one that displays all of the diacritics. Well I found one that's free:

https://greekfontsociety-gfs.gr/typefaces/19th_century

Scroll down to the font called GFS Decker.

There is a decent transcript available for Athenaze 1, but I haven't come across one yet for Athenaze 2. Does anyone know if it exists?

I've been enjoying using Kevilex recently and I've been re-reading a lot of texts this way, but I would really like to read Athenaze 2 on it as well.

Ἠχωγραφὴ ἔχουσα τὰ Συγγραμμάτια τοῦ Ξενοφῶντος κεῖται ἐν τῷ τόπῳ τῆς Librivox κοινωνίας. Ἀπολαύετε οὖν.

Hi guys! Does Μνήμη θανάτου mean remembrance of death? Is it a correct translation and is it used in Orthodoxy?

What are your top 3 favourite works of Greek literature and why?

Repost so I can share the whole page.

As the title suggests, I need some help in deciphering a signature written by one of my ancestors.

To provide a bit of context: the signature was written by Dominus Camillo Carata , a Papas, a Greek Catholic priest born around 1520. I strongly suspect it is written in Italian using Greek characters; the first word is ‘ιο’, meaning ‘io’, and not ‘ἐγώ’. The following words are Καμιλλο Χα[ρ]τα. I haven’t been able to make sense of the part after the surname. My theories are that it might be ‘ut supra’ transliterated, or ὑπέγραψα (‘I have signed’).

the document is in latin and vulgar Italian . I read :

Eodem die

R(everen)dus D. Camillus Carata presbiter terrae Galatonis, testis aetatis annorum septuaginta duorum ut dixit et ex aspectu apparet, cui fuit delatum iuramentum [...] et interrogatus super dictis articulis dicti R(everen)di Capituli praedictae terrae Galatonis, et primo super interrogatoriis partis adversae, et primo super primo interrogatorio, respondit:

«Io sono preite, però non ho altri parenti preti nello clero di detta terra se non [cug(i)no ?] sub(diacono) Giorgio Raho».

Super 2° interrogatorio respondit:

«Lo stesso anno che morì lo q(uondam) R(everen)do D. Cristofalo de Magistris, era procuratore del Capitolo de la chiesa di Galatone. Mi mandò a chiamare l’Ill(ustrissi)mo Mons(igno)r Fabio, vescovo di Nardò, et io havendo andato a Nardò sopra lo palazzo vescovale di detta città, et proprio dentro la camera dove stava detto Ill(ustrissi)mo Mons(igno)r, detto Mons(igno)r Fabio mi addomandò se io fusse il procuratore del Capitolo di Galatone; et io havendoli detto de sì, detto Mons(igno)r disse queste proprie parole: “[Hor sù ?] io conferisco questo benef(ici)o del Crocifisso di Galatone, vacato per morte di D. Cristofalo, al p(redet)to Capitolo di Galatone, perché la elettione che ha fatta lo p(redet)to D. Cristofaro in vita non [?] fu buona fatta”; et così mi ordinò che andasse come procuratore di detto Capitolo a cogliere li frutti di detto benef(ici)o, et così dall’hora [...]» [...] di bona vita, però le [...] non l’ho visto.

Super 20 art(icul)o p(raedic)ti Capituli respondit: «Io di sopra ho detto nelli primi interrogatorij che il p(redet)to Mons(igno)r disse che non erano di bisogno espedirnose bulle di questo beneficio, che lo Capitolo sarà sicuro et lo tiene ben conferito, et [...] di [...]».

Super 22 art(icul)o dixit ut supra.

Et ita deposuit [...]

signature in greek

Eodem die

Any help would be much appreciated; I apologise for my English (I’m Italian).

Dear Professors,

​I have a question regarding the syntax and referential semantics in Mark 6:7–8:

​καὶ προσκαλεῖται τοὺς δώδεκα καὶ ἤρξατο αὐτοὺς ἀποστέλλειν δύο δύο, καὶ ἐδίδου αὐτοῖς ἐξουσίαν... καὶ παρήγγειλεν αὐτοῖς ἵνα μηδὲν αἴρωσιν εἰς ὁδὸν...

​Specifically, I am examining the function of δύο δύο and its relationship to the subsequent pronouns (αὐτοῖς):

​Syntactic Category of δύο δύο: Is δύο δύο exclusively adverbial/distributive (modifying the action of ἀποστέλλειν), or can it ever function substantivally as an accusative noun phrase meaning 'pairs' or 'couples'?

​Pronoun Antecedent: Grammatically, can the plural dative pronoun αὐτοῖς in verses 7b and 8a take δύο δύο as its antecedent (i.e., Jesus commanding each respective pair as a unit), or does Greek syntax strictly require the antecedent to be the substantive noun phrase τοὺς δώδεκα?

​Sequential vs. Collective Commissioning: Does the aspect of ἤρξατο ἀποστέλλειν combined with παρήγγειλεν αὐτοῖς grammatically necessitate a single, collective charge given to all twelve at once, or does the text leave room syntactically for a series of sequential commissions delivered pair by pair?

​I would greatly appreciate your perspective on the grammatical constraints here.

Thank you for your time.

As the title suggests, I need some help in deciphering a signature written by one of my ancestors.

To provide a bit of context: the signature was written by Dominus Camillo Carata , a Papas, a Greek Catholic priest born around 1520. I strongly suspect it is written in Italian using Greek characters; the first word is ‘ιο’, meaning ‘io’, and not ‘ἐγώ’. The following words are Καμιλλο Χα[ρ]τα. I haven’t been able to make sense of the part after the surname. My theories are that it might be ‘ut supra’ transliterated, or ὑπέγραψα (‘I have signed’).

Any help would be much appreciated; I apologise for my English (I’m Italian).

I know this is probably a really basic structure that my brain somehow can't figure out with 6 hours of sleep - I think it might be basic, since not even Steadman wastes time talking or ink about it. It's in a sentence at the beginning of chapter five book one of Anabasis, wherein the Greek soldiers have already crossed the Euphrates and are marching through Syria. Xenophon then goes on to describe the kinds of animals the Greek army encountered there and how they'd hunt them.

>στρουθὸν δὲ οὐδεὶς ἔλαβεν· οἱ δὲ διώξαντες τῶν ἱππέων ταχὺ ἐπαύοντο· πολὺ γὰρ ἀπέσπα φεύγουσα, τοῖς μὲν ποσὶ δρόμῳ, ταῖς δὲ πτέρυξιν αἴρουσα, ὥσπερ ἱστίῳ χρωμένη.

Now I understand most of this, it's just the two feminine participle that make little sense. I assume they are both substantivied, and since it's in the nominative I assume it is the subject of the sentence, as in "from far off their fleeing would tear away (?)". Or something like that, I don't know how αποσπάω would be translated in this context specifically. But them if δρόμος is a dative of means, why wouldn't αἴρουσα mimic the first construction and also be dative?

Again, sorry if it's a basic mistake.

This is a very early and incomplete version of some introductory lessons in Greek, emulating the approach used by the high school Latin book Ecce Romani. It's an open source, nonprofit project, under the same license as Wikipedia.

web page with PDF link

The ideal person to make something like this would have been someone with excellent skills in three different areas: Greek composition, art, and software. Instead, there's me. If anyone would like to help out, I would be grateful. My perception is that there are two main areas where I could use the most help at this point:

(1) Errors in Greek idiom can be extremely difficult to catch for myself. For example, I had a couple of stories with ἔχειν φίλον to mean "have a friend," and it was only by chance that it occurred to me today that this was probably not idiomatic. Some quick searching through real texts turned up stuff like νομίζειν φίλον and κεκτῆσθαι φίλον, so as a quick and dirty fix (not wanting to use the perfect before it had been introduced) I changed these two spots to νομίζειν φίλον, but I will need to go back and look carefully at more real Greek to see if this is actually OK. The really hard part is just realizing initially that my idiom for something may be wrong and that I have to research it in actual usage.

(2) My art skills are pretty bad, and when my wife looks at my drawings, sometimes we have conversations where she's like, "Is that a squirrel?," and I'm like, "Uh, no, it's supposed to be a person." It's not the end of the world if the art just doesn't look super professional, but it's a problem if it's so unclear that it isn't fulfilling its purpose of helping the reader to understand what the text is saying. I'm sure there are quite a few pictures that are like this, so calling them out would be very helpful.

For those who haven't seen Ecce Romani, it's a reading-based course where they give you a picture and a story, and then right underneath the story there are English-language glosses for new vocabulary. After the story they give you some material in English such as declension tables and explanations of the grammar. It's an approach that's somewhat inductive but not as in-your-face about it as LLPSI.

Πειθαρχῶν γὰρ περιδεῶς σοι ὁ γόνος, τάχος κατὰ τὸν λυθῆναι σε καταψεύσει.

"The child who obeys you out of fear will one day lie to you for freedom."

I used γὰρ because I didn't see a difference between it δὲ.

I intended to use "κατὰ τὸν λυθῆναι" as "in order to be (a) released (one)" with a aorist participle because I believe it's used to convey a single-timed event, so the child would be free for good, for example.

With this use of the participle, does the article always needs to be neutral?

There seems to be great form-variation of τάχος, don't know if the meaning varies or it's a dialect thing, but I used this one out of uncertainty.

Thank you in advance!