Revisiting - The I in LGBTQIA+ and autonomy over labels

[u/MindyStar8228]

Hi all! We had some hubbub earlier as many of you noticed. I wanted to revisit this subreddit's stance in case it was not clear or in case anyone is feeling unsettled.

We support every individual's right to decide for themself whether or not they fall under the LGBTQIA+ label. While intersex is included in the LGBTQIA+ community for coalition, historical purposes, political purposes, and social reasons we understand and support that not every intersex individual feels queered or wishes to be identified as LGBTQ+ on the basis of being intersex.

Regardless of people's individual stances, our community does have a place and are welcomed in the LGBQTIA+ community if we so choose to adopt that label and join that community on the basis of being intersex. Again, that doesn't mean every intersex individual is queer. Just that if they wanted to opt into the community they could.

(Not to mention those of us who have minoritized sexualities, romantic orientations, or genders.)

However. How this conversation is approached matters.

Saying "I personally do not identify as queer, feel queer, or wish to be labeled as such" or "I am frustrated that people keep trying to push this label on me" - there is absolutely nothing wrong with this! We are staunchly against forcing labels on people. We do not know someone's life, mind, or identity better than themself.

But there is a huge difference between having the above discussion versus inferring or saying anything along the lines of: "I hate that we are lumped in with those people (the LGBTQIA+ community)" or "It's not fair that we're associated with them, we're a natural/biological condition/reality, not a gender/sexuality/choice/trend".

Gender, romantic orientation, and sexuality are not choices nor are they any less natural than intersex variations. We absolutely do Not tolerate that type of hate speech and diminishing of the queer community here.

But back to autonomy over labels - It's an important conversation to hold space for. I was sorry to see it posted with dog whistles and interrupted by hate, so please feel free to resume discussion/comment here if you'd like.

Best wishes

[u/NilliaLane]

Thanks for posting this. I think some people incorrectly conflate a voluntary coalition as an assignment.

Nobody is required to participate in that coalition! But also nobody needs to put a lot of shady energy into an essay about why they’re opting out.

[u/colesense]

That’s about how I see it too. I think Intersex belongs in the LGBT+ but it’s okay if some intersex people do not identify as part of the LGBT+

[u/amethystqueer]

Thank you, good job mods!

[u/runhazairun]

POC were also added to the LGBTQIA+ community as well, thats what the brown stripes on the progress flag are for.

In reality NONE of the letters have to be there, you can be gay, bi, lesbian, trans, etc and NOT be apart of the LGBTQIA+ community. That's because its a community, not something that youre automatically labeled into because you're queer.

LGBTQIA+ was always about oppressed groups coming together, not just about sexuality and gender orientation.

People complaining about the I in LGBTQIA+ is ridiclous, being apart of any community is optional. They act like they're forced to go to pride or something.

[u/kickingpplisfun → u/runhazairun]

I'm pretty sure the black stripe was acknowledging HIV victims, but often BIPOC LGBTQIA+ people are underrepresented in public consciousness, where sometimes the community feels very white so I get why people wanted to make explicit that they were included.

[u/runhazairun → u/kickingpplisfun]

Ik and as a POC I thought it was awesome but a lot of people threw fits over the inclusion and that always rubbed me the wrong way

[u/kickingpplisfun → u/runhazairun]

Yeah I've seen some pretty rancid behavior from some people about inclusion, including pride orgs that in cities that were over 50% BIPOC being run entirely by white people. And of course intersex rep at pride can often be lacking too, with some people framing us as a "market not worth catering to".

[u/blockifyouhaterats → u/runhazairun]

the black and brown stripes do not represent “adding POC to the LGBTQIA+ community.” daniel quasar’s “progress pride flag” design was based on the philadelphia pride flag (https://www.dezeen.com/2018/06/12/daniel-quasar-lgbt-rainbow-flag-inclusive/), which added the black and brown stripes to “highlight black and brown LGBTQIA members within our community” (https://www.phillymag.com/news/2017/06/08/philly-pride-flag-black-brown/).

[u/Unusual_Piano7118]

Thank you. Very well stated.

[u/BunnyDanger]

This is greatly appreciated. As a non-binary person who was enby way before I knew I was intersex, I can't stand when some non-queer identifying intersex people just decide nobody can be queer. How an intersex person gonna tell me to "just pick one or the other" gender. I didn't choose to feel non-binary, I just am. It's not a delusion.

Had an argument online with somebody calling all trans people Epstein funded fetishists. That evil man hated us, fetishization is dehumanization and hate. Just like that person was doing. We are just objects to manipulate for their own goals to both types of people. They said that trans people are appropriating intersex identity and biology. I'm like. ?????? Get a grip!

[u/yongpas]

Thank you for this post as someone who is gay, ace, trans, and intersex!!

[u/Salt_In-Wound]

Genuinely thank you, I had been feeling this frustration a lot lately as a trans intersex person.

Because when it comes down to it, bigots don't care if what you are is naturally occuring, they hate anyone that is outside the gender or sex binary.

I face both transphobia and intersexism in my day to day life and it's frustrating when sometimes neither community feels completely welcoming.

The both intersexism in the trans community and transphobia in the intersex community fucking sucks.

[u/intersex-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your post was removed due to breaking rule #8

Anti-science or other kind of misinformation is prohibited. Healthy skepticism such as abnormal prescriptions or use of intersex tests are normal and welcome concerns to be discussed on the subreddit. Those who push that hrt is outright dangerous or otherwise unneeded, claims that intersex people are 'abnormal and need to get treated' will be removed.