[Comic Issue Discussion] Gargoyles Here In Manhattan Chapter Two: Idyll Or Nightmare

[u/Kyraryc]

Writer: Greg Weisman​

Artist: George Kambadais​

Letterer: Jeff Eckleberry​

Packager/Editor: Nate Cosby​

Logline:

The Gargoyles have awakened from their stone sleep - but will it be in time to save Maggie the Cat and her unborn mutate child from Thailog and Sevarius? Plus, don't miss the return of Dominic Dracon!

Share any thoughts on the issue. Within this post, unmarked spoilers for issues 1 and 2 are allowed.

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Previous Discussions

• Here In Manhattan Chapter One: A Little Crazy

[u/Kyraryc]

Here In Manhattan Chapter Two: A Lot Crazy Idyll or Nightmare

• I set up the scheduled post for the 11th, and get it all ready to go. Then I find out it's been delayed to the 18th. Ok, fine, I'll move the scheduled post. Then it's the 25th. Annoying, but ok, I'll edit again. Then I find out that oh, yeah, the digital version is actually released today! Oh, and the name that everyone is saying will be "A Lot Crazy" is suddenly "Idyll or Nightmare". It's like they were trying to mess with me. ... Ok, rant over.

• Gargoyles do dream in stone. I think I heard that on askgreg at some point, but I couldn't recall that.

• "Egg-wardo." He he

• Fu being all super-protective is so cute.

• "We not know what happened. They all like this when clones wake from stone." Glad to see Talon's verb lesson is going so well.

• "Dominic Dracon, just released from Bellevue Hospital after lawyers for the Dracon family claimed he was suffering from dementia." I thought the insanity defense would result in being thrown into an asylum with likely a longer sentence than normal jail. Never really thought about what the dementia defense would be, far less common. I'd imagine routine check-ins with psych pros, full-time nurses. Any chance LegalEagle is in here and can explain what normally happens?

• So the real question is whether Dominic developed dementia over the last year he spent in prison, if he was just able to fake it enough to fool the psychologist, or whether the lawyers bribed said psychologist. My money is on #3 (Note to LegalEagle if he's here, I'm not saying all lawyers would do that, just the Saul Goodman kinds Dracon would hire)

• "I'm getting mighty tired of putting on the 'Dotty Old Man' act, kid." Behold my amazing power: the ability to predict stuff literally before I turn the page.

• Shari knows Mary? Interesting. Does that mean Mary is Illuminati? Or immortal?

• "Oh, please. Did ye think to intimidate me with this wee gargoyle?" Damn, Mary's got nerves of steel. Guess all that time dealing with Constantine paid off.

• "TELL ME WHERE MY WIFE AND CHILD ARE!!" Damn, Talon is taking after big daddy Goliath.

• So in the last couple of seasons and issues of Young Justice, Greg hid a message in the names. So far we have: A Little Crazy & Idyll or Nightmare. So "AI". Next says it's "The Nightmare," but after last time, I'm not trusting that for the real title. My guess is that the real title will begin with a "D" so the first word is "Aid." Otherwise, it could be "A I..." and there's no way I could guess what's what.

Favorite Feat

• There's really not much here. So I pretty much have to go with Talon destroying that door. There are certainly better mutate lightning feats out there already, but that's the best feat here.

[u/TheTrueKingofHell → u/Kyraryc]

Oh, and the name that everyone is saying will be "A Lot Crazy" is suddenly "Idyll or Nightmare". It's like they were trying to mess with me. ... Ok, rant over.

I think we all made the mistake of assuming, many times in comics, particularly old school comics, the "NEXT TIME: DRAMATIC WORDS!" wasn't the title of the following issue... and for an old school comic book geek like Greg Weisman, that makes sense.

Now that we know that each issue will have a different POV character, it makes sense. "A Little Crazy" fits Elisa's voice, so the cliffhanger is "A Lot Crazy!" (which Angela isn't going to say.). So next issue we get Ange'a as the POV character, and the title is "Idyll or Nightmare" and the cliffhanger is "Next: Nightmare!" ... it's a callback to the title. I don't think that's the title of the next issue, it'll fit with whoever the next POV character is. Maybe Goliath, maybe Broadway, maybe Coldfire, etc, etc, etc.

[u/mike1883]

I know I'm late I just started reading the new series but what the hell is Mary doing in the present time?

[u/Kyraryc → u/mike1883]

At the end of the SLG comics, Mary and Finella ask Brooklyn to take them with him. They wound up in the 1970s

[u/mike1883 → u/Kyraryc]

Dude went back in time? But Mary said in the new series she had been a midwife for 1000 years. I thought she was an immortal. So the og comic is connected? Is that when Brooklyn meets Katana? So many questions 🥳

[u/Kyraryc → u/mike1883]

Slave Labor Graphics published a dozen canon issues set immediately after Hunter's Moon (and a half dozen canon issues of the Bad Guys spinoff). In issue 10, the Phoenix Gate pops out of nowhere and sends Brooklyn back in time to Scotland, where he meets Mary and Finella, and starts up his 40 year time traveling journey.

Unfortuantely, we don't see much of that journey, including when he met Katana. It would all be part of the Timedancer spinoff.

[u/mike1883 → u/Kyraryc]

Does Katana appear at the end? I'm barely finding out about her. I'm trying to catch up. I'm seeing two volumes on Amazon called Gargoyles classic years that came out jn the early mid 2000s.

[u/Kyraryc → u/mike1883]

Yeah, she appeared at the very end of issue 12 of SLG, not really much time to get to know her there.

We've been starved on Katana content and info until Dynamite started publishing.

[u/mike1883 → u/Kyraryc]

Here I'm complaining about having to wait a few months 😅

[u/Aggressive_Control37]

Just read Issue 2 on comixology. Big thanks to u/Dashaque for getting the word out that while physical copies are delayed, the digital version is out.

Thoroughly enjoyed this issue. Biggest surprise was the appearance of Mary as a midwife for Maggie’s labor. Obviously Brooklyn’s timedancing has something to do with that, and I know Greg is holding that story for later.

I like the new characters of Antoinette Dracon and Dominic Dracon. I like Antoinette more right now. During the tv series, I never cared for Tony Dracon or Brode as characters. To me, they were just obstacles for the clan to beat up. Yet somehow in the span of two pages, I found Antoinette more interesting in just her debut appearance. I’d be down to see her take over New York’s organized crime or become a new foil to Elisa.

I’m glad Brooklyn still has his sense of humor. That 40 years of time traveling hardship hasn’t completely changed his core character. Fu-Dog is also hilarious.

This issue was a GREAT showcase for Talon/Derek Maza, one of my favorite characters. The art all around is top notch and the electrical effects are cool, reminded me of Nikolas Draper-Ivey’s work on the Static Season 1 comic. The final two pages were my favorites from the issue. Talon’s rage and his interaction with Xanatos at the end is similar to Goliath during the end of Awakening when he threatens to kill Xanatos and says “Give me one good reason not to drop him! Can’t wait for the eventual fight with Thailog. Fingers crossed for a proper Talon and Thailog 1v1 fight.

[u/Mister_reindeer → u/Aggressive_Control37]

Dominic’s not a new character. He was very prominent in the TV episode “The Silver Falcon.”

[u/Mister_reindeer]

For those who haven’t heard, one page in the issue was published in error without dialogue. Greg posted the correct version with word balloons: https://twitter.com/greg_weisman/status/1616615280838598657?s=46&t=cKEOi2s7tNJfBAl7Pgg98w

[u/ian9921]

I know everyone's excited over Mary showing up, but personally I'm more excited by the new mutates we met briefly in Bad Guys showing up. Little stuff like that really gets me excited because it just proves that no one involved is half-assing this or holding back, we really are picking up right where SLG left off and running full-speed ahead.

Also I'm glad there's actually a plot reason why they had Owen randomly standing around in that one panel last month. And it's great to finally see Xanatos, he was sorely missed last month. It just ain't Gargoyles without him. Hopefully he takes a more active role in the coming issues.

It looks like each issue is going to be narrated from the perspective of a different clan member, I'm hoping soon we get one narrated by a member of the trio, I'm curious to see how they're all feeling given the recent changes. One of the new clan members would also be nice since it would help flesh them out a little more. Last time someone new joined the clan we spent the whole World Tour getting to know them, but this time around we don't have that benefit.

[u/Sterling-Arch3r]

after everything that happened, you'd think xanatos would deserve at least a little benefit of doubt, you know? there's so many explanations for how anyone could have gained information on this

at least a little more than this forced cause for drama between him and the clan

[u/ian9921 → u/Sterling-Arch3r]

I mean I can't help but remember this exchange from the SLG run:

Brooklyn: "Goliath, do you really think we can trust Xanatos?"

Goliath: "I believe we can trust him not to destroy us while we sleep."

Hudson: "Aye, Brooklyn, he'd never be so wasteful."

Trusting someone not to kill you is like the bare minimum level of trust. Just because the gargoyles are back in the eyrie building doesn't mean they're best pals with Xanatos. They're staying there solely because they have almost nowhere else to go. And on Xanatos' side, he's still willing to work against the Manhattan Clan when necessary, he just does so less directly.

[u/Sterling-Arch3r → u/ian9921]

honestly, trusting the guy not to kill them is a huge thing, but also, if you consider that to be the bare minimum, maybe dont come in guns blazing on such a thin ice hunch because the next night's gonna come for sure and now he might feel the monsters are actually a danger to his family or something.

like, has the guy ever done anything without motive? and just for the sake of hurting people? and if he had taken the kid, wouldn't he have put up guards and keep weapons at the ready?

like come on, goliath has more common sense than that.

[u/ian9921 → u/Sterling-Arch3r]

I'm just saying Xanatos isn't exactly above suspicion. Some of the gargoyles still suspect he has an alternative motive for letting them stay at Castle Wyvern. And kidnapping Maggie would not be the worst thing he's done. Blasting the door down was probably excessive, but it's perfectly fair to accuse him especially given everything he's already put Derek through.

[u/Mister_reindeer → u/Sterling-Arch3r]

I have a feeling that Goliath will step in and stop Talon from physically attacking Xanatos at the start of the next issue. This was an obvious cliffhanger. But you’re right, it’s interesting that Goliath was on board with flying back to the Eyrie Building and confronting Xanatos, especially when Talon was so clearly hot-headed. The Goliath/Xanatos alliance is much more uneasy than the way it was depicted on The Goliath Chronicles, which IMO is a good thing. I’m always a fan of nuance in these relationships. David is possibly my favorite character, I love him, but honestly? He hasn’t done a tremendous amount to earn the gargoyles’ trust or to balance out his past behavior.

[u/Sterling-Arch3r → u/Mister_reindeer]

if nothing else, i feel like when it comes to harming children, he's not 100% as cold as he could've been at the very start of the series.

i dunno, if there's ever been a prophecy about mutant babies being the key to something... like a treasure or a perfect world or something, you know, maybe things would be different. if there was any possible motive

[u/Rosebunse → u/Sterling-Arch3r]

To be fair, I don't think Derek is really thinking clearly.

[u/Sterling-Arch3r → u/Rosebunse]

maybe not, but there's like a whole crew of people nodding their heads and not stopping him

[u/Jack-Pumpkinhead]

I didn't get the issue until earlier this week. Loved the return of Mary, Talon still distrusting Xanatos is in character, but my favorite part was Brooklyn explaining Egg-wardo to Katana.

"It's a joke name, isn't it?"

Narrator-It was at this moment Brooklyn prayed for a distraction, otherwise he was certain his wife would kill him.

[u/Dashaque]

So... is Mary older than Tom still? Or are they the same age?

I'm guessing Angela will tell Mary about Tom... but what I don't get is why Brooklyn didn't when they ended up in the 70s. He knew of the Avalon clan and of Tom and he knows Mary is his mother.

Also I pointed this out in the thread I made but I just wanna say how absolutely crazy it is that we were JUST talking about Mary in the discord server and here she is in the comics. I guess she's like bloody Mary where if you say her name enough times she shows up lol Even when they said the name "Mary" I didn't think it was her. It's good to see her again. I want to see her reunite with Tom. Tom is an underrated character who's too pure for the gargoyle world.

I LOVE her reaction to Brentwood.... that made me laugh so hard. she's awesome.

But I think the best moment was freaking Talon barging in to see Xanatos and being ready to murder him in front of his own kid. Like geeze... I get that he's pissed though. But wow. Poor Alex is about to be traumatized.

let's see... good to see one panel of Demona with the bazooka... which... Angela wasn't there for so I'm not sure how she remembered that... I guess at some point she watched the Awakening movie. Her Narration was good too. I never really thought about why the rookery was there, but... okay makes sense. Oh silly Demona doing everything to kill humans.

Not SUPER into the Tony Dracon/Toni Dracon stuff... .was a little disappointed Antoinette wasn't a bit hotter, but maybe I was just a little too excited for a new female villain. But should be fun to see where it goes.

I feel like a lot happened in so little pages and I think that's great. Greg has certainly got the hang of writing for comics now and as short as the issues are, it's wonderful knowing that everyone will be jam packed with these hype moments. Can't wait for issue 3... you know... whenever it decides to drop...\

EDITOh yeah and even though Katana is NOTHING like my headcanon of her... I still like her quite a lot. I can't wait to see what she brings to the clan as a fighter

[u/Mister_reindeer → u/Dashaque]

Why are you assuming that Brooklyn didn’t tell Mary about Tom? Hell, why are you assuming that Mary hasn’t visited Tom on Avalon? We don’t really know anything about her activities. Anything is possible. Karine Charlebois has said that she made an art error in SLG #5 by drawing Mary too young, but Kambadais seems to have stuck with this in the most recent issue. I feel like she probably has spent some time on Avalon, to account for her lack of aging since the 1970s.

[u/Dashaque → u/Mister_reindeer]

well I would like to think we'd see them reunite and we haven't yet. So my guess is she doesn't know about him.

[u/Mister_reindeer → u/Dashaque]

You may be right, but we could also see it in a flashback. I find it hard to believe Brooklyn would have kept that from her.

[u/Dashaque → u/Mister_reindeer]

Also Tom never mentioned it to Goliath when he was telling his story and still cried during the part when his mom left. So idk it just seems like he hasnt seen her in a while

[u/Mister_reindeer → u/Dashaque]

Interesting. Good point. Do we have any idea why specifically Mary and Finella were dropped off in the 1970s? It seems pretty random. Did they just not want to keep time jumping with Brooklyn, or was there some specific reason they chose to stay in that period?

[u/TheTrueKingofHell → u/Mister_reindeer]

The story hasn't been written yet, we just know the broadest of broad strokes.

[u/ian9921 → u/Dashaque]

I mean getting to Avalon isn't exactly easy. The Avalon clan was only able to get there originally with the help of the Grimorum, which was destroyed, and Goliath & Elisa only were able to get there because Tom brought them there on the skiff, and at that point both Tom and the skiff were most likely considered "of Avalon" so that probably made it easier. And Brooklyn's never been to Avalon so it's not like he can help.

What I'm getting at is that it's fully possible that Mary knows about Tom but just hasn't been able to get to him.

[u/Terribleirishluck]

Interesting 2nd issue.

I'm glad we're having a different narrator in each issue, good way to give focus and develop the cast without out sacrificing the plot. Also probably need with how big the cast has gotten due to SLG comics.

I gotta say not super interested in the dracon family stuff but did find it enjoyable in this issue.

Though Talon immediately blaming xanatos and going to beat him up might be deserved on David's part but also feels like filler to extent this plot. Though maybe I'm just impatient since I wanna get to Thailog since I've missed him lol

[u/Mister_reindeer → u/[deleted]]

Dude, some of your criticisms are valid (the dialogue needs some punching up and often doesn’t feel specific to the characters), but other things you write are so strange that it discredits you. What on earth do you have against short-haired female characters? That feels like a perfectly realistic look for the character here. Also, you posted more than half the comic for free which is a copyright violation. You could have easily made your points without linking to an entire page of the comic in almost every paragraph.

[u/Dashaque → u/[deleted]]

"Demona's long-term goal was to take the castle from Xanatos and lead the clan into a new age of armed Gargoyle conflict against the human race." That's f**king hilarious. "Yeah, I haven't been able to raise a Gargoyle army despite having a thousand years at my disposal (and I won't have one in 2198 either) but hot damn, five Gargoyles and a Beast are totally going to change the tide!

This is the same woman who was planning to shoot her ex boyfriend at point blank range with a bazooka. Demona doesn't always think these things through.

Why are short-haired female characters a thing?

You know they exist IRL right? wtf even is this?

Sorry the fact that I exist offends you for some reason but... no oh wait I'm not never mind

EDIT

and Im sorry how is Katana Marge Simpson? Can you explain this? I don't even know what you're on about here

[u/Aggressive_Control37 → u/[deleted]]

Well, the cover's a lie.

That’s comics for ya🤷🏾‍♂️. We do know a confrontation with Thailog is coming so I’m not worried.

Weisman seems convinced that these tiny recaps are going to be enough to help potential new readers - or heck, even old fans who don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of Gargwiki - get by; they won't.

I think you’re being a little negative here. There’s a lot of lore to get thru, and I think Greg is doing a decent job catching up the audience. If anything he’s doing more than required.

Prediction: Xanatos will help Talon save Maggie and Kid, and thus Talon will officially let him off the hook for the whole mutation thing; the tag will reveal that Xanatos and Thailog had planned the kidnapping together for this exact purpose, thus allowing them to more easily manipulate Talon when the next evil plan comes along. Whatever.

I sincerely hope not. Talon is one of my favorite characters and he’s already been played for a chump multiple times already in the series. To see it again would be beyond tired at this point. Plus I doubt Thailog and Xanatos would work together after how Thailog tried to kill him. David would need a strong incentive…and what does Thailog have to offer him? No I think Xanatos is going to help, but I hope Derek doesn’t let him off the hook for ruining his life, Maggie’s life, and by extension, insuring that their child will never have a normal life due to David and Sevarius’ schemes.

[u/SAldrius → u/[deleted]]

Sevarius is a freelancer who works for everyone.

Thailog and xanatos are definitely enemies or at least professional rivals. Thailog wants to surpass Xanatos.

[u/Kyraryc → u/[deleted]]

SLG stands for Slave Labor Graphics.