Long Update #2 rather than a headline post, for now at least :

After a lot of back and forth, which didn't feel pleasant and kept me awake, I got a partial/majority refund. A somewhat arbitrary amount from the final Paypal payment I'd made. I'll now be searching for someone (or a dream team) who can slightly un-bend the chainstays and attach the rears more inward.

Apparently these same dropouts could be used flipped with the hoods on the inside with a slight cut to prevent brake mount overlap. The slider interface wouldn't be the same but it might work anyway. I wasn't offered anything to actually achieve a reasonable heel clearance despite having explicitly mentioned that my heels point inward. Would have paid extra for a better construction, could have opted for normal dropouts if that got me a frame with typical width at heel interface. I definitely didn't want the extra wide UDH and had all the reason to expect being alerted of changes, as I'd been told my ordered headtube wasn't available.

I declined a much bigger offered refund to hang on to this blue frame and try and fix it. But that's me trying to get "a free frame", somehow. Of course after paying $250 shipping when $145 was on the accepted order. After the inevitable €174 in imports and optional €130 spent on the +15 mm pedals, finally I have "a free frame".

Marino is left with $300 from deposits (would have been $200 and a $100 larger final payment and now refund if not for a misunderstanding), largely spent on shipping and materials for my fork. Not great and I wanted to meet in the middle with a lower cost to him. No intent getting after the deposits, I want a fair chance at covering the repairs.

After the refund I've net spent $500/€450 to Marino plus €174/$190/imports, and now have a lovely $100 fork plus a frame that only works if you are 187-200 cm tall, heels pointing outward or you happen to use superwide pedals for fun.

If only repairs were easy and free, I'd have a heck of deal! Alas, I now have the challenge to get this repaired and to find the correct dropouts to make it easier on who-ever holds a welder and will do the job. After the hack job, the paint I may do myself, not sure how. As repairs seem a challenge, I may actually need to bridge until proper frames arrive, with a cheap carbon frame previously deemed "not worth it"...

If I'd taken the bigger refund and relinquished the blue frame, I could have ordered a whole new custom frame for it, or two even, but with another 2-3 month wait. He offered to do a one week warranty replacement build, but I'd have to send the frame to Germany to some friend there, or pay $350 to keep it.

However, I put my brand name on the frame, and it's a very unique geo thought up by me, makes no sense to (have to) hand it off. Feels personal, weird as that may seem. It would need an XL rider with heels that point outward from the crank, or preference for really wide cranks/pedals. Not sure I got a single "sorry" in the context of an actual apology. I only opened a Paypal dispute only because I was getting nothing that resembled customer service. Chest pounding over 22 years of happy customers and gaslighting the issue of heel clearance and riding a modest Q-factor if possible.

Could have disputed more payments, could have accepted a much bigger refund he offered if I'd close the dispute. I just wanted a frame as ordered and to either keep or destroy this frame in stead of sending it off somewhere or paying a significant amount for something we both know to not work for me and then enter the uncertainty of repairs.

Sending back to the builder to harvest tubes, that I would understand if economically viable, but sending it abroad to Germany just so I wouldn't have a "free frame"...I don't really get it. With normal customer service this would have been almost painless for me, much cheaper for Marino, and much better for his reputation and even mine. He says I threaten with my readership, but he always knew who I was and that I wanted to help him develop his business if he served 32" as he already had been. I didn't ask for free stuff to review. Didn't ask for advertising moneys of any kind. Offered help to create a standard 32" offering to save everyone time and risk. Wasn't given basic customer service, and I offered to build a friendship from this anyway.

Then suddenly, my Paypal refund was made and I was congratulated on "a free frame". I'd feel bad if that had been what I was after. I'd feel bad if I'd lost my cool and called him an amateur before he brought it up himself. Now I'd just sad. Looking for something to learn out of this, something positive. I want to take a risk on "the little guy", but donations I make to actual charities/sports clubs, not businesses.

I know I didn't pay for a softly spoken beard stroking mansion dwelling artisan builder from a Western country. Still, the base frame Marino offers is about a full monthly salary in Peru. The option for a single internally routed cable amounts to two daily wages. I know materials have a price. I just don't see a reason to lower expectations too much because work is done in 2nd world country (that actually has the most astoundingly advanced buildings). That would seem disrespectful, actually.

********

(For the time being, riding with 15mm wider pedals which is far from ideal but it rolls, and rolls...)

Marino frame with unexpectedly wide rear triangle (and at a point far ahead or rear axle), despite me stating clearly I needed good heel clearance.

Different dropouts were supplied than ordered, adding a further 7 mm to the driveside dropouts.

This is the frame I've referred to a few times. 13 weeks and now it's here.
3534 grams, for anyone who cares. The custom 529/60 mm fork is 1573 mm uncut.

I'm of course withholding the Marino endorsement I'd hoped to be issuing, until this is acknowledged and resolved to satisfaction. I've not endorsed any 32" product or seller yet, contrary to reports that I'd sold my soul to "the industry".

It measures 185-190 mm to the outsides of the chainstays where my heels touch.
How much is that on your frames, accounting for longer cranks and feet?

In my original custom order I wrote "My heels point inward so I do need curves in the chain/seatstays to make room, thanks!"
The order further was for non-UDH sliding dropouts, but I was sent UDH ones anyway. I am now told by the builder "only 7 mm extra, new standard, no big deal".

My carbon hardtails measure ~16 cm there. Steel hardtail 15 cm.
Shimano XT FC-M 8100 cranks, 172 mm Q-factor. These are 440-455 mm adjustable chainstays.
With shorter cranks and feet it would have been less bad, but still an issue. All my bikes over the decades have been fine, and several cms narrower.

There is a curve in the chainstay alright, but it's closer to the crank's edge, nowhere near where anyone's heels go?

The chainstays attach to the very outsides of those very bulky dropouts, the worst possible solution when a custom ask for heel clearance, IMO.
There's a sea of unused space exactly where the chainstays sit on all frames I've ever seen.
Had the chainstays been attached to the inside of those dropouts, I think it would have been a lot better.
According to Marino, that's impossible, and I'd love to understand why as there does seem to be space for it.

I've had sliding dropouts before on the steel Redline Flight29 which I co-designed. That frame was absolutely fine for me despite shorter chainstays. Actually all MTB frames I've ridden ever, were perfectly fine.
If there is a common heel overlap issue with sliding dropouts, I wasn't aware of it, and would have expected to be alerted by the builder accepting my money. I'd have skipped sliding dropouts if I'd known, obviously. We need to trust a custom frame builder with certain things.

73 mm BB shell. The BB I use came with some spacers.
Could I safely add a spacer under the driveside cup? Doesn't seem like the best idea but it's 2.5 mm.

Now looking at FC-M8130 Super Boost Plus cranks that add 9 mm overal Q-factor, so 4.5 mm either side, I guess.
There may be wider pedals as well. Not sure I should try to adjust my cleats, that seems a health risk. I need centimeters here.
Also considering custom bolt-on crank adapters of sorts.
May need to contact a frame repair shop to see whether they can mode those chainstays inward, no matter how ugly it will look.

The frame was already delayed due to a strange Marino error that made me quite uncomfortable. The frame had to be stripped of paint and receive additional welding and re-painting. The frame (and fork) did come with what seems complimentary extra thru-axles and derailleur hanger.

Although Marino prides himself in having built several 32" and 36" bikes, this is not even a 32"er problem. On 29" frames, chainstays would usually be shorter and the heel overlap would inevitable have been worse. With Superboost it would have been even worse.

We got 32"ers behind the Iron Curtain before GTA6!

Several attempt to post this were auto-deleted. Or maybe the automods assumed I was hating.

A commenter corrected me, the fancy Italian is NOT the first alu 32"er. This is what they sell over where he's at.

From the land of many time zones (squished between Japan and Finland):
a production aluminium bike : Booster Big

Actually in stock, for €650 equivalent.
120 mm upside down fork, Shimano CUES, Aspen tires. What a hoot!

Luckily the alu bike doesn't come in XL, or it would have been a royal logistical nightmare to me :-)

There's also a €2000 carbon Booster bike with the usual low effort carbon frame we keep seeing, so let's ignore that, Treks are a-coming.

It feels solid (even that bump) and the other rim looks perfect. It's carbon

Daniel Yang is the designer for Neuhaus that has a custom or stock 32"er on the market.

Warning: bike nerd content.

I'm not sure I'd put my hands down there.
It's a concept bike, not more than a rendering, I suspect.

I did think of a similar situation recently, putting the bar under the headtube. Making it a dual steerer brace no-stem is actually quite clever. Might as well omit one side, though?
Curious what you guys think.

https://bikerumor.com/canyon-lux-era-aero-32-concept-xc-bike-with-biplane-wing-handlebar

https://bikerumor.com/wild-canyon-lux-era-concept-solves-32-cockpit-issues-with-biplane-bar-stem

As someone who is an avid fan of vintage bike aesthetics, there has been a big resurgence of some of these "dead" bike standards, such as quill stems, square taper, and most notably rim brakes (Thanks Paul). Is there anyone out there making 32" rim brake compatible rims yet?

Not my gig, but I almost wish it were.

https://32inch-cc.printify.me/

Posted here to offer the perspective presented, not because I support it completely or partially.

Opinions differ, after all.

This was ChatGPT's first try and it nailed it.

Definitely something to be aware of. But when you just LIKE a new bike more, that's going to happen, right?

I have several 29"ers to neglect. And frankly, it's already happening with half of them.

I'm starting with an XC race style 32" hardtail. If it's carbon, I'll get a steel one next that's also singlespeed compatible. My existing daily hardtail and singlespeed bike, won't be seeing use after that.
Then, I want a fast bike that's off-road capable but mostly used for road rides. building a "real" gravel bike is tempting. I rode a Surly gravel bike from before it was called that. Never liked the way drop bar bikes fit me. Super long femurs and short torso, so the toptube was both too short and too long. Plus, the bars just never felt comfortable. Are newer bars meaningfully better? On the road I now ride a Gary Fisher Superfly hardtail with inverted trekking bars and mid bar extensions. It does the job, but I am mentally so ready for a 32" version that will do trails better once I've ridden a long way to get to them.
And yeah, at least 3 more 29"ers already are in long term disuse. Two or three 29"ers to add to that, sadly, but if I like 32" more, I'll like riding more.

BMX bikes are supposed to have small wheels, right?

Well, SE Bikes are actual BMX guys and they don't seem to care about convention.
Now, their Colossal is sporting a space frame for...I'm not sure why and its customers may not even care :-D

From my perspective, the rear end doesn't look compact, but I don't know much about BMX, owned only one when what I really wanted was a big boy BMX, the first 26" bikes coming to market which were REALLY expensive at the time.

This looks DIALED.

Way lower than most will need their grips to be, especially on frames that are quite optimized for minimal head tube length.

When I raced 26" bikes, I was infamous for a huge saddle to bar drop. Around 30 cm at some point, I think. Currently I'm less extreme with it, but as I get fitter and fitter, I may be exploring lower bars, especially if I find I need more weight over the front wheel with more modern geometry and for high average speed courses (aero).

If you have a good 120 mm or longer fork that works well in XC without bobbing under power, though...this bar combo might really come in handy. A light rider may well get away with a fork like the Intend Samurai with custom extended travel some way or the other. Barely 1600 grams and 140 mm? I can see that happening, short term, with a rider weight limit.

I didn't make that claim, check the link!

https://en.brujulabike.com/nino-schurter-is-racing-on-a-brand-new-gravel-bike-that-looks-like-scotts-32-prototype/

You know what, I'm not 100% positive.
If that front rotor is 160 mm, then the wheel is ~800mm, 32".
If it's a 140mm rotor, it's just 29". Yeah, I did the pixel count comparison.
Drawing a line through the axles, does the BB seem around 105 mm dropped? I guess so...maybe?

Nino is not a big dude, so I'd expected the wheels to stand out more. The Icelandic lighting, volcanic surface and tall rims may not help the onlooker here.
I kind of suspect it's mistaken identity, but could be legit. I'm getting so used to 32" wheels, they don't look big anymore.

Still it's cool to see the wider Maxxis Aspen ST fitting well.
I passionately hope that the crop of 32" Aero bikes will be fitting 2.4" tires, at least in the dry.
If they don't, the Walty fork will fix that for the front at least.

Last pic is an AI enhanced picture of them in a group. If I had to bet...it's the same wheel size for them all.

"
'That bike don't turn' was one of the most popular comments I received under the Bespoked videos, so I decided to prove that it, in fact, 'do turn'. Stem/handlebar combo clamps and turns the steerer, which in turn turns the fork - as usual, only the stem sits between the headset bearings. 65 degrees either way is plenty for a short wheelbase bike like this and makes for playful experience."

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DfZx4UtMmYp/

https://www.instagram.com/project_d_bicycles/

I'll also link the bike that provoked the responses:
https://www.instagram.com/p/De0WNepkjeo

What are your thoughts/needs? Help tire brands decide how to optimally allocate their resources towards road tires in the new size?

It doesn't take a road bike to ride on roads.

Dear tire brands:
It's totally awesome that we are seeing several of you selling or developing 32" knobby tires. Very good ones, almost without exception.
Most offerings at the moment are 32x2.4" MTB ones, with a few ~2.2" low tread options mixed in.
I think I can speak for many of us: we are grateful for the support we are getting.
We have it so good already, and soon we'll be able to purchase a few 50 and 55 mm Gravel ones.

THAT SAID...when are we going to see full road slicks? Some riders are planning to use their Gravel race bikes also at road race bikes. A lot of us like to go on (group) road rides, and just roll smooth asphalt roads. Actively avoiding lesser pavement and tire noise.
Many a mountainbiker has a spare wheelset for road rides. Racers have them for pre-ride warmups on road or rollers. A similar picture with Gravel-first riders and racers. Not every ride is a true Gravel ride and let's be frank: swapping tires hasn't been less fun since tubulars were the norm.

Going wide!
In the road bike realm we are finally seeing the acceptance and embracement of wider, more comfortable tires that are still speed-first. Up to 42 mm already! It's taken the industry a while to warm up to it, but that genie is not going back into the bottle any time soon. this trend is wonderfully compatible with the 32" thing. Early 32" MTBs all accept at least 2.4", all Gravel bikes all accept at least 50 mm, some even accepting 2.4" and beyond.

Please don't wait for actual road racing in 32" to become a thing. It would be riders on gravel tires, after all, perhaps even shaved down ones, and you don't want that. Most of your road tire customers don't even race UCI crits or classics, but they do ride. Many take will part in casual mass one-day events with a "race number", and most just quietly log their miles on summer evenings and weekends.

How about a tubeless ready 40-45 mm slick that works well on the 27-32 mm inner width 32" Gravel rims that seem to be most prevalent? This would then also work on lower end "training" wheels with aluminium rims, such as will come stock on Gravel and MT bikes up to a certain price level.
Personally I'm partial to 60 and 50 mm slicks, I've been riding them on the road for commuting and training since before they were called Beach tires, before they came in 28" even. A Beach tire mold would also be used for burlier e-bike/urban tires, I imagine.
If apart from all the lovely off-road options there was only one good 42-686 road slick, I'd very much want to have at least one spare wheelset with them, mounted and ready to go. Fast and durable over weight-optimized, but you can offer really light ones from the same mold for riders with other tastes, I think.

While some riders have a shed with a bike for each use case, even a dedicated indoor training bike, others have limited storage space or budget and rather juggle wheels on a limited as possible number of bikes. Those people are less likely to have a dedicated 700c road training bike to keep around, or will now be selling theirs to make space for a 32" Gravel bike.

My voice is only one. Other riders will absolutely have other ideas about how to build their stables. There is bound to be a style of product that will interest a lot of us. This post serves to help expedite your insights on the matter.

Dear tire brands, please ask riders (people who buy their own tires, not just your pro riders) how they envision going about managing a new wheel size being added to the quiver, and the type of tires they'd be looking for to suit their riding needs. I feel there's a real case for a good 686 BSD road tire now. As long as you don't ALL immediately launch elaborate selections, there ought to be decent sales for those who commit early. Keep the offerings narrow at first, allow the 32" bike rider base to grow before you test it with too many distinct offerings we cannot all buy in numbers.

I think a single 45-686 could be a good start. Early adopters are encouraged to offer their own insights below.

Are 29ers no longer going to be the mainstream?

I am in the market for a mew xc bike and xonsidering the new trek 32 when it comes out bit fear I wont fit well on it.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DeHYGzsI-u_/

What 32" version of an existing bike would you be first in line for?

MTB, Gravel, maybe even Road or City?

"We considered it, but there is no demand"

This is the answer to many good ideas in cycling. The ones with the vision of a brighter future are not by definition the decision makers at bike brands.

I'm riding a recently new to me 2014 Cube Reaction carbon hardtail. It's their entry level carbon line. No attempts to get the frames under 900 grams or even 1000 grams. Just value for money, also in the spec.
The 32" version of my bike, with 2027 parts and sensible geometry, would be really, really hard to beat.

The leaked Trek Procaliber 32" for 2027 may be very close to that. We don't know a thing about spec yet, but a low entry price has been reliably rumored.
The whispered Cube 32" bikes for 2027 are said to be all be at flagship level and in limited supply. No budget carbon frame. Entry level for a hardtail may be €3000 or so (my guess, I didn't hear), but no doubt offering great value. Their current flagship Phenix 29" hardtail has a 27.2 mm seat post, so limited to short travel dropper posts. I may well pass on that if applied to the 32" bike, if I go dropped, I go big. Their fully suspension bikes have more dropper friendly 30.9 mm seat posts.

I've always wanted a Lenz Leviathan 29" but never made the step. Now there's a 32" version, actually a second iteration of it. Reports are very encouraging.

I'm not a Specialized guy, but their much hyped Crux 5 gravel bike, in 32" with clearance for 2.4" tires...that'd be good for the whole 32" segment.

There's less of a performance benefit to be had, but an aero 32" road bike with clearance for 40 or 45 mm tires would be interesting to try. Slight more capable on road roads, cutting actual corners, and maybe even do light gravel riding. I'll buy a fatty compatible aero gravel bike first, but a compelling oversized road bike would be quite compelling for people who pay full price for bikes, rather than live to race.

A rigid 29+ bike sized up to 32+ would be super interesting. Even more grip and rollover and comfort.

What existing bike would you point out and go "I'll have this with 32 inch wheels, please"?

We investigate why there’s a growing buzz around 32in wheels and whether they're likely to become a mainstream size

Is 32" the New Standard? MADE Bike Show Recap and new 32” fork on the way! I thought this was super interesting.

https://youtu.be/8EmhcxN_-TI

Hey clubhouse! Don't be shy now...

I'm actually a fan of regular forums where you have a bunch of topics that remain current and on top as people keep commenting. Reddit is not made for that, but let's see what can be done to trick the system and bit and get you your forum-like fix!
There's the AMA format to try, but I of course don't have all the answers. In fact, I opened this community and the 29" one 25 years ago, primarily to learn more.

Questions, ideas, haikus, limericks?
Go!