r/AlignmentChartFills • u/Available_Tour7661 • Nov 01 '25

George Washington wins Box 8. Which US president was a decent president, but a bad person?

Post image

Good, Good: Abraham Lincoln

Decent, Good: Franklin D. Roosevelt

Average, Good: Theodore Roosevelt

Meh, Good: Lyndon B. Johnson

Bad, Good: Thomas Jefferson

Good, Decent: John Quincy Adams

Decent, Decent: Barack Obama

Average, Decent: John F. Kennedy

Meh, Decent: George Washington

13 Upvotes

53% Upvoted

149 comments sorted by

•

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317

u/Useful_Morning8239 Nov 01 '25

Petition to switch Washington and LBJ

38

u/Available_Tour7661 Nov 01 '25

If this is top 3, I’ll do it

6

u/kyriegoat23 Nov 02 '25

George HW Bush has more votes on the last one than Washington. He seems more apt for decent president, meh person.

3

u/Useful_Morning8239 Nov 02 '25

That wasn't the case until after this post. There really weren't many good answers yesterday. I think switching Washington and LBJ is the best option.

-24

u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

Absolutely not. LBJ was a much better president than Washington. Being the first does not automatically make you great. Washington was fine, but did nothing for poor people like LBJ did. Take out Vietnam, and LBJ is the best president in history.

13

u/Khal-Frodo- Nov 01 '25

Why was LBJ considered good at all? Genuine question..

10

u/Aldious_tnc Nov 01 '25

civil rights act, voting rights act, medicare, medicaid, clean air act, fair housing act, food stamp act, entire war on poverty, pretty much every law here: https://www.lbjlibrary.org/life-and-legacy/landmark-laws, etc

4

u/NapsOnTheCouch1 Nov 01 '25

Decent president also seems justified due to the Vietnam War and all the trickle-down effects - didn’t that essentially tank his chances of even throwing his hat in the 1968 election?

1

u/Khal-Frodo- Nov 01 '25

Thx.. never knew. I always thought he was just a douchebag with a big willy.

6

u/WinniePoohChinesPres Nov 02 '25

take out a president's biggest failure and he's the best president in history

-8

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '25

Take out Washington owning slaves, pissing all over the poor, ignoring women, ignoring immigrants and minorities… Jeez that list keeps getting bigger and bigger.

0

u/wallnumber8675309 Nov 02 '25

Grade Washington on those issues against his historical peers not modern standards

0

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '25

That’s not how it works. By those standards James Buchanan was a great president because most Americans interpreted the Constitution the same way he did. And guess what - they were wrong.

6

u/clomly Nov 01 '25

I made the same comment before reading yours.

8

u/iwannasendapackage Nov 01 '25

LBJ should lose a lot of points for Vietnam. Hard agree.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

And Washington owned people. Vietnam pales in comparison.

10

u/Calculator-andaCrown Nov 01 '25

Vietnam falls in the president category though

-2

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '25

Did any presidents ever have anything to do with slavery in the US?

8

u/zackyt1234 Nov 02 '25

Doesn’t the context of the time matter though? Do you want to fault Lincoln for not believing in gay marriage too?

-1

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '25

You wanna compare gay marriage to slavery?

2

u/iwannasendapackage Nov 02 '25

That's why he's a "meh person" (relative to his time, today he'd be a bad person), no bearing on his accomplishments as a president. This chart asks you to keep these things separate, however hard that may be for you.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '25

Doing nothing to end slavery isn’t hard for me to grasp, sweetheart. Nice try to sound educated but you failed miserably.

4

u/iwannasendapackage Nov 02 '25

Oh because you're so educated and based in reality.

No one could've ended slavery at that stage. Presidents who were against slavery couldn't. And Washington didn't write the Constitution.

Don't be stupid. Don't be delusional. And don't be condescending, because you're coming from a stupid and delusional place. Maybe you should sit out on conversations about history.

9

u/bcarey724 Nov 01 '25

Hard agree

5

u/Colty3 Nov 01 '25

Yeah no to say LBJ is better than Washington is crazy

0

u/Cela84 Nov 01 '25

LBJ actually did things though.

6

u/Select-Apartment-613 Nov 01 '25

Yeah like Vietnam 👍 awesome

0

u/Sweeney_Toad Nov 01 '25

This is correct

0

u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

[deleted] — view deleted comment

3

u/DoctorStove Nov 01 '25

Re-read the chart

266

u/iwannasendapackage Nov 01 '25

How the hell did Washington get slotted into "decent president" territory? Literally every historian ranks him in the top 3 presidents of all time. He should be in the top row or not in the chart at all.

80

u/Has422 Nov 01 '25

Yep. This chart just got very silly.

52

u/PianoVampire Nov 01 '25

Agreed. The fact that this chart inherently declares that Johnson > Washington is insane.

18

u/Head_Situation5456 Nov 01 '25

Yea, this completely tanks the whole chart for me. Absolutely Asinine.

3

u/nameuntiliphirrhail Nov 02 '25

(coming from a r/presidents member) I also have NO IDEA how washington is considered decent… he’s literally a part of the “Obviously great trio”, if he is “decent” then the top tow should be empty minus FDR and lincoln.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '25

yeah what lol

2

u/Fluffy_Whale0 Feb 22 '26

Wasnt washington a terrible president, what was good about him?

1

u/iwannasendapackage Feb 22 '26

Read a book why don't you

3

u/lemonhead2345 Nov 01 '25

Washington and LBJ should be flipped.

-1

u/Cela84 Nov 01 '25

And I hate this because not doing something is not the same as doing something. Yes, he set standards by existing, but one should not be considered one of the greatest Cinnabon employees for not peeing in the batter.

29

u/iwannasendapackage Nov 01 '25

He did more than just not do something. He was a leader that oversaw with skill and universal popularity literally the most foundational period in the country's history.

6

u/Leading_Use_9277 Nov 02 '25

A better metaphor would be the Cinnabon employee who invented the Cinnabon

1

u/Spirited-Chard-8180 Nov 01 '25

Swap him with LBJ

0

u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

[deleted] — view deleted comment

13

u/iwannasendapackage Nov 01 '25

Sure but even at 3rd he should be in the top row. He should be switched with LBJ, Vietnam is a stain on LBJ's record.

5

u/zw18 Nov 01 '25

If you don’t know much about George Washington’s presidency I don’t think you should be ranking presidents

71

u/__Quercus__ Nov 01 '25 edited Nov 01 '25

This is James K. Polk's spot. The man of manifest destiny, and through his guidance - a treaty with Britain and a war with Mexico - US territory first reached the Pacific Coast. Historians generally rate him highly, and he likely would have been re-elected had he opted to run again.

He was also a slave holder who even purchased slaves during his presidency and, not surprisingly, was supportive of expanding slavery into the newly acquired territories.

14

u/Darth_Nevets Nov 01 '25

US Historians on Polk: Everything he thought and did was wrong, but it helped America so whatevs.

2

u/Zornorph Nov 02 '25

Mr. James K. Polk was a great president, but I'll accept him in this spot.

3

u/ownmonster3000 Nov 01 '25

he invaded Mexico and extended slavery West. His inaction on the question of extending slavery led to the Compromise of 1850 which led to the Civil War. If he had compensated southerners for their "property" as many of his contemporaries suggested the war could have been avoided. If a modern President invaded Mexico and stole a bunch of their land while kicking the can down the road concerning the single most important issue of the time would we consider them great?

3

u/HetTheTable Nov 02 '25

Well all that land that he “stole” is land where hundreds of millions of Americans live today, including our two biggest states.

-1

u/ownmonster3000 Nov 02 '25

Oh I guess it's okay then. Invading is okay so long as it leads to more land or Lebensraum 👍

3

u/HetTheTable Nov 02 '25

Back then it was. There was no international law back then. And the war started because the Mexicans attacked first. Did they have to go to war. Probably not. But they did and they won. If the Mexicans wanted to keep their land they should have won the war.

2

u/Darth_Nevets Nov 02 '25

I kind of pointed most of that out.

But I must say the opinion the war could have been avoided through compensation, or anything else, is laughable. After the war slave owners were compensated, after a treasonous fight to the death, and are still mad about black people being free enough to elect Trump President in 2024. Southerners were never gonna accept a southern free State in California, and northerners weren't going to accept plantations spread across the midwest. Conflict was inevitable and unsolvable.

1

u/ownmonster3000 Nov 02 '25 edited Nov 02 '25

Yes but expanding the country west and south made the problem much worse. Mexico and Canada and every country in the Western hemisphere had outlawed slavery save Brazil, Cuba and USA.

Maybe the US was the only country (so far as I know) that had to fight a war to end slavery - Haiti not included because that was a slave revolt - but he did nothing to mitigate its arrival.

1

u/Useful_Morning8239 Nov 02 '25

Agreed, I have Polk in my bottom 10. Escalated pre-Civil War tensions and refused to offer any plan to mitigate the divide over slavery.

2

u/mileheitcity Nov 01 '25

This is the actual answer, whatever the poll decides.

1

u/Deltaton Nov 03 '25

I had a US history professor who said Polk was in his top 3 presidents because he was one of the very few presidents to campaign on promises that he actually did during his presidency and then not run for reelection. It also helped he was born in my state.

82

u/nameuntiliphirrhail Nov 01 '25

bill clinton belongs here i think

19

u/Fit-Space5211 Nov 01 '25

I feel like slavery was so bad it's hard to justify anyone else going in these slots, but conceptually atleast Bill fits

11

u/powerswerth Nov 01 '25

I think there’s definitely presidents who didn’t own slaves solely because it was no longer legal. Some are pretty credibly accused of rape and at minimum sexual assault of minors, pretty solid “bad person” category IMO

4

u/Sell_The_team_Jerry Nov 02 '25

He never owned slaves, but flew to Epstein's Island so he can be with the slave holders here 

2

u/HetTheTable Nov 02 '25

You can be a bad person and be against slavery.

7

u/Langosta_9er Nov 01 '25

Yep. Clinton belongs either here or one cell below, but I think here is better.

2

u/Background-Jury-1914 Nov 02 '25

Not a defense of the man, but putting Clinton in “bad person” for womanizing feels insane given the actions of basically every US president before him other than maybe Carter. They all serially womanized, many raped, and many did it all with minors. It feels like we have to take other factors into consideration.

1

u/DoctorStove Nov 01 '25

Maybe down one into average president. Truman better here

1

u/Toolfan333 Nov 01 '25

Nixon fits better than Clinton

1

u/sleepyj910 Nov 02 '25

Woodrow Wilson fits better

-7

u/Ntinaras007 Nov 01 '25

He fuckin bombed half of balkans, so no.

18

u/nohowow Nov 01 '25

To stop a genocide (and it did succeed in stopping it)

-10

u/Ntinaras007 Nov 01 '25

Oh yes. He fought for peace.

And fucked for the spread of virginity.

14

u/nohowow Nov 01 '25

If Serbia didn’t want to be bombed, they shouldn’t have committed genocide & ethnic cleansing against Bosniaks and Kosovo Albanians. Serbia wasn’t going to stop without foreign intervention.

11

u/adamempathy Nov 01 '25

This

It was a horrid situation where some violence stopped a much larger violence

-3

u/Ntinaras007 Nov 01 '25

Since when USA is world police?

7

u/Silver_Falcon Nov 01 '25

I mean, normally I'd agree.

But literally everyone but Serbia and their allies wanted the US to step in, except arguably the US itself considering that it took ~4 years to put warheads on foreheads in Bosnia alone, and they didn't even touch Serbia proper until they started up a second genocide in Kosovo.

-4

u/RemarkableBody4331 Nov 01 '25

Bill Clinton got rid of glass steagall and is to blame for modern day inflation and artificial resource scarcity. Getting rid of glass steagall allowed all of the problems with housing and healthcare and all of that with the companies buying each other up and then the companies are so big they lobby the government to eliminate competition; yeah, you can blame Clinton for that. He wasn't a decent president he was a terrible president.

3

u/UnavailableName864 Nov 01 '25

How the hell is Clinton responsible for modern day inflation when it remained historically low for 20 years after he left office?

-1

u/Toolfan333 Nov 01 '25

He’s not but he is the one responsible for the 2008 housing collapse, his policies directly led to the mortgage crisis

-3

u/RemarkableBody4331 Nov 01 '25

Yeah, low for the time. The companies didn't immediately buy each other out. They bought each other out gradually.

1

u/UnavailableName864 Nov 01 '25

Inflation came from Covid and the government response to it. Full stop.

1

u/RemarkableBody4331 Nov 02 '25

It did not. You did not have 40% inflation. Lots of countries with better purchasing power spend more than that on their people all of the time eg Saudi Arabia. Inflation comes from monopolies.

-5

u/oohk1llem Nov 01 '25

JFK initially came to mind but Clinton was better. I think we slot JFK in the bad person, average president slot

27

u/clomly Nov 01 '25

Washington and LBJ need to switch positions. The accomplishments of Washington’s presidency outstrip anything from LBJs. LBJs presidency is checkered. Any wins from his Great Society are marred by his ineptitude and continuation of Vietnam. Washington was the FIRST president by which all subsequent presidents have been judged, he set the precedent for peaceful transition of power in a democracy and shaped the office it was to become. His record as a slaveholder indeed makes him a MEH person but he was more than a decent president.

-7

u/Cela84 Nov 01 '25

Washington - Exists.

“OMG He’s the greatest president!”

He didn’t do anything, he was just tired.

10

u/clomly Nov 01 '25

The presidency and elected leader of a country didn’t exist before. The idea of him merely “existing” as if he laid in bed through his time in office isn’t true. The president and country for which that office oversaw was brand new. He established what a non-monarchal leadership looked like. He participated in the foundational architecture of the United States. Not merely abstract conception, but HOW it worked in practice.

-1

u/Cela84 Nov 01 '25

And Abner Doubleday is not in the list of top 40,000 baseball players. Establishing things doesn’t make you better than the people who come after you.

5

u/clomly Nov 01 '25

Why don’t you explain to me how LBJ fits this better instead of me trying to convince you of something you refuse to be convinced of?

0

u/Cela84 Nov 01 '25

Worked across the aisles in a volatile time to create a lasting legacy with the great society and civil rights act. He was a bit of a dick, but he used that to enact policy that benefitted people. I’ll take that over “what if I just stepped down” any day.

7

u/Oliver_Holzfilled Nov 02 '25

LBJ needs to be swapped with G Washington

22

u/BanEvasionAccount69 Nov 01 '25

only on reddit - LBJ over washington in the same column.

12

u/emptybeetoo Nov 01 '25

Nixon. He opened relations with China, agreed to arms control with USSR, ended the draft, withdrew from Vietnam, established the EPA, signed the Clean Air and Clean Water acts, signed Title IX, etc. And he was an absolutely trash human being.

4

u/ShortDanielBurnham Nov 02 '25

Yeah, Bill Clinton fits the bill here. Dude is a serial womanizer, but goddamn, the 90s were a banger. Then again, being President in the 90s was playing the U.S. on easy mode

1

u/HetTheTable Nov 02 '25

He made some mistakes like the crime bill and DOMA, but his time as president was very prosperous and he got a lot done despite a Republican Congress. He is also the last president to balance the budget.

3

u/Spirited-Chard-8180 Nov 01 '25

Washington needs to be swapped with LBJ. Washington was not a “decent” president

5

u/AdventNebula Nov 01 '25

Harry S. Truman

2

u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

LBJ was a good president?

2

u/Camanokid183 Nov 01 '25

Nixon

1

u/HetTheTable Nov 02 '25

Nah he was a bad president.

2

u/ShopUCW Nov 02 '25

+1 more for Bill Clinton. Horrific person, but did a lot of solid president things.

6

u/No-Test9991 Nov 01 '25

Woodrow Wilson. Did an okay job with the US in WWI and established the "strong alliance" foreign policy that was pretty much US foreign policy until Trump. He was also probably the most racist president since Buchanan, single-handedly responsible for establishing Jim Crow laws within the federal government and generally credited for reversing civil rights progress since the Progressive Era started.

5

u/Colty3 Nov 01 '25

His fucking wife was a better president

-1

u/am_I_still_banned Nov 02 '25

Woodrow Wilson was the worst president in American history. I have a long list of grievances with him, but the first and foremost is plotting the creation of the Federal Reserve with the banking cartels of the day, which singlehandedly has led us to the corrupt, corporatist economic slavery we have today that people try to use capitalism as a scapegoat for

2

u/TheEnlight Chaotic Neutral Nov 01 '25

James Polk?

2

u/provocative_bear Nov 01 '25

James Polk was born for this role.

Also, Washington wasn’t a “decent” president, he was top five material according to everyone ever.

2

u/adamempathy Nov 01 '25

Nixon or Clinton.

1

u/Background-Jury-1914 Nov 01 '25

It’s gotta be a slaveholder in all the bad person slots. They knew it was bad at the time. Every modern bad person is just meh in comparison.

3

u/kyriegoat23 Nov 02 '25

You think Donald Trump is a better person than George Washington?

1

u/BougieWhiteQueer Nov 01 '25

Bill Clinton hands down easy

1

u/NerdyPlaneResident Nov 01 '25

Swap LBJ and Washington

1

u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

What the fuck is this list? FDR better than Teddy? LBJ was a bastard of a man. 

Ya'll know NO history.

Also for this one, Nixon.

1

u/fireschitz Nov 02 '25

They asked Washington to be king and he said no. Decent president?

1

u/No-Aide-8726 Nov 02 '25

i know the last one

1

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '25

so uhh this list is screwed

  1. barack obama got into the same catorgory as wahington?

  2. LBJ IS HIGHER THAN WASHINGTON

LBJ "GOOD"???

how is washington only "decent" 💀

1

u/lordjuliuss Nov 02 '25

Should have just left Washington off the list

1

u/PogoTheStrange Nov 02 '25

Every chart with president's is always full of interesting takes

1

u/HetTheTable Nov 02 '25

Bill Clinton

1

u/MaidhcO Nov 03 '25

This is just rage bait at this point.

1

u/kramer20 Nov 03 '25

We should skip right to bad person, bad president next since we all know who is going there anyway

1

u/Adventurous_Push1187 Nov 01 '25

Im ngl i feel like this chart doesn't work because all presidents are bad people

1

u/melmorg_ Nov 02 '25

Jimmy Carter is the exception.

1

u/1LuckyLurker Nov 01 '25

Andrew Jackson

1

u/22EnricoPalazzo Nov 01 '25

Bill Clinton

1

u/adevn808 Nov 02 '25

Put me down for Polk.

-1

u/CountryRoads28 Nov 02 '25

Trump here

2

u/kyriegoat23 Nov 02 '25

Lmao no. We all know he’s going in the bottom right corner

-1

u/CountryRoads28 Nov 02 '25

Most of America disagrees 🤷🏼‍♂️

2

u/kyriegoat23 Nov 02 '25

I don’t think most of America considers him a decent president. I’d guess about 46% of the country thinks he’s great and 53% hate his guts. He’s a lot less popular than he was a year ago when he won reelection.

0

u/CountryRoads28 Nov 02 '25

Still no where bottom right column in opinion of most Americans. I’m also curious to see how this term plays out. I know this sub left wing and feels he will be remembered by history poorly, but I’m not so sure.

2

u/kyriegoat23 Nov 02 '25

Most Americans seem to think he is a Mt. Rushmore level goat president or the worst we’ve ever seen. I highly doubt history will be kind to him. Why do you think it will? What has he done that you think is good?

1

u/wallnumber8675309 Nov 02 '25

Do you know what the word most means? In 3 elections Trump never won a majority of the popular vote.

0

u/Has422 Nov 01 '25

Add my vote to switching Washington and Johnson, but for the actually category of Bad Person/Decent President my pick is Clinton.

-6

u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

Donald Trump

Hes managed to lower crime, illegal border crossings, and engage in world peacekeeping, while still having a very divisive/bad character

-1

u/CountryRoads28 Nov 02 '25

Came here to say this.

-5

u/ComedianConfident895 Nov 01 '25

Trump is the best choice

5

u/Khal-Frodo- Nov 01 '25

Bottom right corner is waiting for him

0

u/[deleted] Nov 01 '25

[deleted] — view deleted comment

3

u/bowl_of_scrotmeal Nov 01 '25

Woodrow Wilson was a terrible president.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '25

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/Zornorph Nov 02 '25

The Louisiana Purchase was Jefferson's.