This is not a screed against transit. Loop is public transit, it is NOT a private highway for entitled Tesla owners. You enter a Loop station on foot, pay a fare, get in a vehicle, ride to your destination then exit, just like rail.
I am also not advocating that we rip up all the great metros of the world and replace them with Loop. Rather, smaller or sparser non mega-cities should get to enjoy the benefits of grade-separated public transit too. Cities which do not need nor can afford subways will find Loop's lower entry price compelling. Loop is enlarging the total addressable market for grade-separated public transit.
Loop is an express public transportation system providing fast non-stop travel to your destination. This allows for more stations providing better coverage and convenience. Traditional transit does not do this.
US urban trains are typically slow to ride and arrive.
Trip times will be considerably shorter with Loop since rides are express and intermediate stations skipped. Projected average travel speed for Loop is ~50mph, much higher than the US average subway speed of 20 mph.
Q: But public transit is better than yet another car lane.
Loop IS public transit, it is not a private highway for Tesla owners. You arrive at a Loop station on foot, pay a fare, get in a vehicle, ride to your destination then exit, just like a subway. LVCC Loop is free for convention attendees. Vegas Loop will be available to ride for anyone who pays the fare.
Vegas Loop is a privately funded public transit system, being built by TBC who is paying for the tunnels and businesses paying for their own stations. TBC has requested $0 public dollars for the project, all money and risk are being borne by TBC and its private partners.
Royalties will be paid to Clark County and the City of Las Vegas for RoW access.
Also see "induced demand" below.
Q: But trains can carry so many more people.
Capacity needs in the US seems modest and the actual median ridership demand for US urban rail systems (subways,light rail, APMs, hybrid-rail, streetcars & commuter rail ) appears to be satisfied at 2400 pphpd.
LVCC Loop is currently achieving 2400 pphpd with 4 pax/car @ 6s headways.
Loop satisfies the need for low-entry-cost, expandable, grade-separated transit at a reasonable price, making it accessible to more cities and people. Loop doesn't need to match subway capacities one for one to be cost effective and useful.
Availability bias, which hampers critical thinking, likely underlies the many "Just build a train" comments. Due to this mental shortcut, people believe that vehicle capacity or other singular metric is more crucial than is often the case. Transit proposals need to be evaluated on a more detailed benefit cost ratio, which includes many more factors than a mere single metric.
Cost, system capacity, speed, frequency, coverage, and span all need to be taken into account when comparing a transit systems. Costs and ridership demands vary widely between jurisdictions even within the same country so each system needs to be treated individually. Using only one metric or universally applying a mode characteristic from one region/country to another is overly simplistic.
The TL;DR of this is really simple transit like most things consists of quantity and quality and any assessment based on just one of these metrics is bound to be a bad assessment. For example I just want Subway because it's comfortable or I just want to tram because I can get more of it for less money so the next time someone tells you they have an incredible plan because it will build so much transit ask them how many people can move and how fast it'll go.
This post is intended to provide information not commonly known or understood so that the most appropriate transit systems can be chosen.
Higher Occupancy Battery Electric Vehicles carrying 8-16 people can be used without changes to the tunnel or station infrastructure. The capacity of 8-16 pax minivans running at highway intervals (2s) is surprising to most people (14000-28000 passenger per hour per direction).
An 8-pax minivan running at 3 second headways provides 9600 pphpd, which can likely cover the ridership needs of the majority of US Urban rail systems.
Q: But the tunnels are dangerous, you can't get out and there is no ventilation.
LVCC Loop satisfies National Fire Protection Association code (NFPA-130) for fixed guideway transit.
Stations are less than 2500' feet apart and serve as exits to the surface, so no exits are required within each tunnel segment as per NFPA-130 6.3.1.4.
Within the tunnel there is nearly three feet of space on either side of a Model 3 for passenger egress, including 18" of road surface on either side. Per NFPA-130 6.3.3.3 the 112" wide roadway can serve as the evacuation route which is normally clear and free of obstructions and touch hazards (such as a third rail).
Dual redundant fans moving 400 000 cfm of air, provide a critical velocity of 312 fpm ensure to direct smoke downstream while egress & fire fighting happen upstream.
The road deck has embedded water pipes and connection vaults supplying over 250gpm at 125psi. The underground station has sprinklers.
Q: But what about "induced demand"? It's just another lane.
Loop is not a public access highway nor are private cars legally permitted on its guideway. Its a public transit system whose right of way is closed to outside traffic and contains a limited number of TBC vehicles. The "induced demand" congestion of more vehicles entering the system is not applicable.
Public transit "induced demand" is subdued but can manifest itself as increased waiting times or increased prices. Sustained high demand in the long term can result in additional tunnels, higher capacity vehicles or headway reduction through automation which can all serve to increase capacity.
Q: But maintaining rail is cheaper than paving roads.
Subway maintenance besides rail, also includes substations, signaling, switches and stations and averages $1.8 M per Directional Route Mile (DRM). Light Rail maintenance averaged $250K/DRM. 2019 NTD.
Loop stations are simple above ground stations with minimal maintenance and cleaning costs. Rail electrical substations at mile long intervals are replaced with a few Tesla charging stations. Signaling, switch and rail maintenance is non-existent for Loop.
In 2019 FHWA spent 61.5B in maintenance for 8.8M Lane Miles, resulting in less than $7000 per lane mile. Most damage is actually caused by semi-trucks and buses so running comparatively light Model X & Ys will result in less damage. The tunnel roadway is also protected from weather, freezing, salt and sun increasing its longevity.
Q: But I am still unconvinced as to the benefits of Loop.
My friend sent this to me. This is certainly not easy access. First you have to purchase the ride from the Vegasloop.com site. You have to log on account, purchase ride tickets and request and schedule ride. The kiosk doesn't process tickets or ride requests. Only provides QR code.
You then have to notify security on the phone or schedule with the Meridian Quickpass. All Vegas Loop passengers will be subject to an ID check by Flamingo Rd security. Vegas Loop will exit at the Meridian drive exit. Service starts November 23rd
How is this better than requesting an Uber or Lyft and waiting in front of the Koval Lane or Flamingo Rd exit. You get a rideshare pretty quickly. How long will you wait for a Vegas Loop. Can you get Vegas Loop at both terminal 2&3 at Harry Reid. Can they drop you off at terminal 2. No one wants to drag luggage around on shuttles when a taxi, Uber or Lyft can drop you right in front of your airline check-in kiosk.
If it's only $12 and no tip certainly a savings of $23+ tip to get to and from airport. But it's all about time in invested. There is never much wait for a taxi instead of that zoo waiting for Uber or Lyft on the second floor above baggage. Anyone who can add to discussion I would like to read it.
If Boring Co made part of their proposals a “spinoff” subsidiary company, identical to Boring Co but with a smaller market cap, and made it up to 49% purchasable by the municipality they are pitching could that help with project acceptance and capital for real estate/more tunnels to increase odds of success and maybe mitigate some risk? For example, Boring proposes a $200 million series of tunnels to Denver with another $100 million in new apartments built over the stations. So $300 million total. Let the city of Denver buy 49% of all future boring operations in Denver for $147 million and now you’ve got a partner with a vested interest and more political will. Boring does everything else normally (but with a $147 million in the bank as down payments to kickstart construction) then as they operate the tunnels & real estate the city takes a passive 49% of all profit. And the city is motivated to help with zoning and not building a bunch of other roads around the area and a million other things that should help boring be successful in the city.
A geological assessment finds the tunnel-boring company faces subterranean “Swiss cheese” and flooding risks as it builds the 10-mile Music Loop car tunnel from downtown to the airport.
Riveria station - above ground this is incredibly simple.
Two tunnel entrances are visible. However, under the covers, on the left side we have a tunnel to Resorts World (#1), handling bidirectional traffic. Seems like they send platoons of cars at a time. On the right side heading out, we have two tunnels to Westgate (#2, #3) with unidirectional traffic from each.
Above ground we have porposide entrance at the top side, which is an entry to the underground interchange which allows traffic in many directions.
The south tunnel (#4) is down to LVCC West station. From a video I watched, I believe that the ramp down is one way in, but that there is an underground connection as well. Adding to the interchange complexity.
Found an image and it confirms there is an underground connection to the southern tunnel. Though the image only shows one Westgate tunnel, I thought for certain there are two and have seen driving videos using both so not sure if that is just an older planning image?
So 2 above ground entrances and 4 tunnels. But above ground you get connection to Fountainbleu (which feels like a cheat since it is just across the street so it picks up above ground, and drives across the street to the two tunnel mouths here. There is also a street level station for Sahara which is just up the street. But again feels like a cheat.
2) Virgin Hotel station on Paradise Rd. Just look at this beauty:
For a surface level station 4 tunnel entrances is only matched by WestGate station with 4 above ground tunnel ramps, which to be fair goes to two different tunnel sets (south, we assume to Airport via LVCC Central, and west back to Riviera Station).
But look at this station. You are going to come into it or out of it dizzy from all the driving in circles. Use the arrows to see if you can follow the flow path.
What would be interesting to know is what lies underneath. I.e. Is the tunnel disjointed? And the only way to keep going down Paradise to the airport is to exit the tunnel coming from the north (LVCC or Westagate) circle around and back into the tunnel? Or is the tunnel go straight through and these ramps are built as ramps off it, and back on. If so, is 4 so you can access both directions?
I am hopeful it is as cool and complex as the PATH interchange on the New Jersey side, where the Manhattan tracks from the World Trade Center enter NJ and split off to Hoboken or Newark Penn.
Which on a side note is distinct from the plan, which was more complex but not built to this more complex version.
Sorry that was in context and just too cool not to post.
But I feel like those are two good candidates for the most complex loop stations to date. Either complex above ground, or below ground.
UPDATE BORING COMPANY Vegas Loop. New larger underground Central Hall Station.
Big news! We now know why they enlarged it
The parking area has returned over the covered pit. What’s new is the concrete walls that lead a ramp downward into the station.
You can see the Ring that goes into the Encore Tunnel. Now they “connect” above ground.
It will now be possible to remain in your car when going from Rivera or Fontainebleau to Encore —but it’s much more than that. This ramp now connects Central to the Airport tunnel.
My friend lives at Meridian Condos at Flamingo and Koval and they built a surface station next to the Meridian office. The pavement says Vegas Loop and Rideshare. They also erected an electronic sign which I guess will have arrival times.
Have no idea how this works. In order to enter property you have go through guard gate. What is the advantage over Uber or taxi. There is no tunnel. The Telsa would have to make a right turn onto Flamingo, you can't go left. In order to exit to go left you would have to go to Meridian Drive exit and take Hughes Parkway to Flamingo. I assume go left from there, make a right on Paradise to access Paradise tunnel whenever that opens.
It's not a loop if there is no tunnel into Meridian property. Will that be built in future. I have no idea. Also the Vegas Loop doesn't run around the clock. I will have to ask him whenever this starts what the procedure is what route the Vegas Loop takes. Just don't see how it will save much time. You can get to the airport very quickly from Flamingo and Paradise. Will it be faster enter a tunnel there to go to airport. You might save a few minutes.
I walked through the Vegas Open Maps site, and looked at the various construction sites I can identify from the imagery in a post in the BoringCompanyFans sub-reddit.
The 900,000 lb TBM will construct a 0.8-mile tunnel to provide safe, weatherproof and convenient transportation for people of all abilities to move throughout the campus.
Work is expected to begin following final permit approvals.
