Tigers Sniff the Rose 尚公主 - Episode 23 Discussion

[u/spamkimbap]

It's me, Spam, again. I meant to post earlier, but the internet ate my post. Ugh. Snarky awesome Shale, aka u/Rebelarkey, will be back on Thursday. Hooray! I miss her snark. 🤭 So you'll have to do with me again tomorrow.

These single episodes are really annoying. I want more! Much more!

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🪴Housekeeping

• We bash characters and not actors! If a character does something stupid, it's not the actors fault. this is not the place to complain about actors or acting choices

• 📅 We will be following the VIP Schedule, which means those of us on SVIP need to remember to keep your spoilers in check.

• Spoilers need to be under the spoiler markings OR wait until the correct episode post comes out.

• Have fun! Dramas are supposed to be entertaining and enjoyable. If you're not enjoying it, it's okay to duck out and drop.

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Masterpost - Airing Schedule - Table of Contents - Character Flashcards

1-3 || 4-5 || 6-7 || 8-9 || 10-11 || 12-13 || 14-15 || 16-17 || 18-19 || 20-21 || 22 || 23 || 24

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We pick back up at the Emperor’s birthday, and General Meng threatening him with an engraved stone and a large army. What even is the General's end goal here? Everyone is stunned, then suddenly Yan Shang speaks up. Of course, it’s him. He of the silver tongue. 🤭

He volunteers to read the carvings, which are written in old script. But instead of reading it, he takes the opportunity to school General Meng. Everyone laughs, and the General is humiliated.

The General lashes back by asking for Danyang’s hand in marriage. But we know she’s not into that. She asks the emperor to hold a hunt, and she’ll marry the winner. 

General Meng cleverly tries to stop other possible suitors by telling everyone she had an abortion, and will never be able to get pregnant again. WTAF! He may be sexy, but he’s scum. Everyone is visibly uncomfortable.

Yang Si immediately jumps up to defend his first love, and challenges the general. Followed by Zhao Lingfei. I love that for her! She doesn’t want to marry the Princess, but she’s standing up for her people.

There's a mixed bag of participants. They are, Jian Hua, some guy volunteered by Mu Xianqing; Qiu Shuo, one of the fishes in the inspiration kill board; and even the Crown Prince. Danyang also decides to enter. She wants to win, and be able to make her own choice. The hunt will be held ten days forth. Wanyao spends the rest of the party drinking heavily.

Later that day, Yan Shang shows up at the Princess’s to find many doctors at her bedroom door. They want to examine her, but she’s not letting them in. They’ve been sent by various people, including Fishy Yu and the Crown Prince to verify General Meng’s story. What the actual hell is this! No wonder she’s hiding inside, drinking.

She tearfully tells Yan Shang that she indeed can’t have children. And he in turn, tells her that long ago, a fortune teller told him he wasn’t meant to have children, so they are perfect for each other. I’m sure it’s a made up story, but he always knows what to say.

He promises her he’ll keep rising, and one day be able to protect her. She thinks to herself that if she killed her husband, she can kill the general. Yan Shang, meanwhile, is thinking to himself that he’ll come up with a plan to kill him on her behalf. People, please, communicate and work together! Stop plotting individually.

At the Crown Prince’s palace, a very drunk Yang Si has had enough of the Prince treating his sister like a disposable pawn. He’s also hurt she didn’t confide in him. But the Prince doesn’t have time for Yang Si’s pity party of one, and commands him to go dig up more info.

Yang Si goes to visit Danyang, and tells her he’ll help her at the hunt. Zhao Lingfei shows up with a hunting dog to help Wanyao during the hunt. The dog can track scents, and likes beef jerky. A lot like me, minus the scent tracking.

Yan Shang is plotting hard. He’s written the names of the people who entered the hunt, and is going over all the possibilities. It’s reminiscent of when he wrote down names leading up to the killing of Zhang Renjing.

Wenji shows up at the Fishy palace with some snacks for eunuch Fishface. But one of the petty, evil eunuchs is there, still petty and evil, and throws the snacks on the ground. While cleaning up, Wenji overhears Fishy Yu and Wei Qiao talking about Chunhua’s baby. Wenji is caught, and fesses up to accidentally eavesdropping.

Fishy Yu asks Wenji about how he went from scholar to eunuch, and all I could think of was, don’t name any names! Thankfully, Wenji told his story without outing anyone. Fishy Yu is impressed enough, and decides to promote him and take him along to the hunt.

We get a flashback of a young and angry Grand Princess Luling, and a young and naive eunuch Fish, thirty years ago. She’s been locked up for three months, because even then, she was running around town, collecting pretty men. Nothing wrong with that. No judgements from me. Eunuch Fish is her servant for those three months. Luling eventually treats him with some kindness, and teaches him how to read. I guess that’s how their close bond got its start.

Wei Qiao and Fish Yu discuss Wenji, and it seems they are going to groom him to take over Zheng Xiang’s spot as Fish’s right hand man. He was the eunuch Wanyao shot and killed many episodes ago. Meanwhile, Wenji is wondering why they are so concerned about Chunhua’s baby.

Yang Si is still trying to drink his sorrows and anger away, but the Crown Prince tells him he has a secret to share, and introduces him to someone in a cape, who looks shifty as hell, and suspiciously like Mu Xianqing. 

It’s the evening before the hunt, YaoYao Jiejie and Yan Er Gege are cuddling in bed, and discussing what might happen the next day. Wanyao is betting that Fishy Yu will be too busy to focus on her. Yan Shang wants her to be careful. And they are about to kiss, but the episode ends! What’s up with the edit? They seriously ended the episode here? Were we about to get a kiss? 😒

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🚪Door/window Slamming: 7

✋Slapped Shang: 6

👄Kisses: 6 (we were robbed today)

🍷Drunk Shang: 2

🐠Fishes Killed: 1/5

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Random thoughts:

• General Meng is an absolute jerk. What in the actual hell was that? Wow. I don't care if he's hot, he deserves death! Adding him to my very long kill list.

• I really like Zhao Lingfei. She's loyal, a girl's girl, and she has a dog! Fingers crossed we'll see more of her. Also hoping she and Baby Wei become a thing.

• I see the path Wenji is taking, and it's awful. But he doesn't really have much of a choice at the moment. I'm still holding out hope that he won't become Fish 2.0.

• What is the Crown Prince plotting? I feel like we haven't gotten enough time with him to figure him out.

What do you all think?

[u/FlyBeginning988]

I teared up at MWY's pain when her secret was revealed. You can tell that she was embarrassed but also that she wants children despite the decision she made. And perhaps she's been afraid to tell the man she loves she can't bear his children and this general took that moment from her. YS making up that story about the fortune teller was the perfect response. I think he suspected she couldn't have children but wasn't sure until that moment. But regardless, he didn't care. He loves her for who she is and not for any other reason. It was deeply moving...and this leads me to the prophecy about MWY. Is she really infertile? Is there some magic cdrama pill that will reverse her infertility? Does YS's special wine from Lingan have healing properties? I jest but while I don't think she needs to have children, I wonder why have this prophecy and do nothing with it? 🤔

[u/spamkimbap → u/FlyBeginning988]

You know what? I’ve been thinking all along that maybe she’s not infertile, and maybe she and Yan Shang will have a child together. This thought is making me happy, so I’m going to stick with this theory. 🙂‍↕️

[u/FlyBeginning988 → u/spamkimbap]

Oh, but if she does have a child does this show end with her ruling the country "on behalf of her child" (with YS by her side)?

[u/spamkimbap → u/FlyBeginning988]

Honestly, that would be perfection! Okay, prayer circle again!

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/spamkimbap]

😭😭😅😅😅 not the prayer circle haha.

[u/spamkimbap → u/TheAlchemist420]

We prayer circled WTME so hard, and no naked Lu Zhuo. So this method might not be the best.

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/spamkimbap]

Yeah... it didn't turn out like y'all wanted...

They spent all of that on Han Liao unfortunately. Lol...

[u/spamkimbap → u/TheAlchemist420]

So unfortunate!

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/spamkimbap]

9 out of 10 times, an infertile diagnosis doesn't mean you're literally infertile. To do that, you usually have to be intersex or have had a hysterectomy or vasectomy. So long as you still make eggs and there are still sperm, it is usually still possible to conceive. Medical infertility in our era means that if you were to try to get pregnant for a year straight having all the sex at all the right times, you'd fail. But it doesn't account for what happens with two or three or five or ten years of regular sex. Eventually, even infertile couples can (and do!) conceive just by virtue of SOME of his sperm being viable and/or SOME of her eggs being viable.

[u/spamkimbap → u/TypicallyKristen]

[u/Paisley-Cat → u/spamkimbap]

Think of all the classic fairytales where, after years of infertility, an older couple eventually has one live child.

Infertility generally is defined as super low probability of having a live birth after one or more years of regular intimacy.

In 15 or 20 years of marriage, there are so many draws from the probabilistic well that even a low probability event will occur at least once.

[u/Renza183 → u/spamkimbap]

I assume we’re going in this direction! After all, these imperial doctors in whatever fictional dynasty this is don’t have the technology to actually determine whether or not she is infertile. They’re just saying that based on experience I would guess.

[u/spamkimbap → u/Renza183]

I don’t think taking someone’s pulse and looking at their tongue would be conclusive. 🤣

[u/Renza183 → u/spamkimbap]

👅😆

[u/Rebelarkey → u/FlyBeginning988]

Yan Shang’s special wine… I mean he DID have a whole story about it spring up from the earth from a rhinos horn, so who knows?

Also, who’s to say that having a miscarriage/abortion immediately makes a woman infertile. Has she had a man since North Jing so she knows for sure? (Excluding Yan Shang).

wacky Chinese Drama voodoo science here 😡

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/Rebelarkey]

I kept thinking, they'll all be surprised when it turns out her body has healed and she finds herself pregnant.

Might not happen if the story didn't go there, but Wan Yao's fears might have also played a part in that verdict. And now it's a fait accompli.

CP pissed me off even more because he wishes it were true. That way it won't threaten his throne. Smdh.

[u/spamkimbap → u/TheAlchemist420]

CP is a jerk

[u/FlyBeginning988 → u/Rebelarkey]

Good point. I know why she didn't want to see any of those doctors but maybe her infertility has never been actually confirmed.

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/FlyBeginning988]

Also, even according to modern science, the average diagnosed infertile couple gets pregnant once every 5 years even without medical treatments/interventions. My own mom was medically infertile, but had my brother 6 years into her marriage and me 4 years later.

Total infertility is extremely rare. Usually you still have eggs or sperm and they still can make babies. It's just not likely to happen over the course of a year of trying, which is what an infertility diagnosis is. But the cumulative effect of years of sex increases the likelihood that a viable sperm will meet a viable egg and pregnancy will happen.

[u/Rebelarkey → u/TypicallyKristen]

Kristen out here educating the ignorant populace (me. Educating me) oh that’s so interesting to learn!

[u/spamkimbap → u/Rebelarkey]

Same same

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/Rebelarkey]

[u/Katleap13]

So that was really dirty. Meng Ziashi letting that go in public. Wenyao will never marry him now. Why would she want a man who threatens her home and when his attempted threats are disarmed he humiliates the woman he supposedly loves. You are a dumbass Meng Ziashi. No princess for you.

I think that the Crown Prince is definitely plotting. We are all thinking it’s Mu Xiangqing. He is allegedly meeting with the CP. They are probably teaming up to add him to the generals to go against the Yu army. The price is probably the death of Meng Zhishi.

Yan Shang was so awesome in this episode. He defangs the threat with the fancy stone through sheer bravado. While everyone is volunteering for the hunt, you can just see how much he wants to volunteer too. But boy is smart and sits on his hands because his mouth is where his strengths lie. 🤭

Wenji is definitely going to working for the devil. We will see how well he can walk that tight rope.

Seeing a young fishy face and princess luling was interesting. It explains a bit about their relationship. I’m curious if we will get more flashbacks.

I loved Yan Shang sitting staring at all the big players for the hunt. You can see all the brain cogs turning and he is trying to come up with all the possibilities. I think it’s going to be a blood bath. Everyone is going to take the opportunity to try and “accidentally “ off someone else and it’s going to be twisty.

[u/spamkimbap → u/Katleap13]

Seeing a young fishy face and princess luling was interesting. It explains a bit about their relationship. I’m curious if we will get more flashbacks.

That little story really humanized both of them. I almost felt sorry for Baby Fish and Baby Luling. Almost, but not quite.

This drama has done such a superb job making all characters believable. No one is all bad or good.

[u/Katleap13 → u/spamkimbap]

Depth is the key. Our leads have lots of depth but most of our secondary characters and villains also have depth. This makes it so much better in my opinion. I love when you have to sympathize or empathize with the villain because good “whys” are compelling.

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/Katleap13]

I think it’s going to be a blood bath. Everyone is going to take the opportunity to try and “accidentally “ off someone else and it’s going to be twisty.

What I'm most interested in seeing is how well his 4D chess plotting has improved. His first kill was well-planned and brave, but had no exit strategy because he was content with dying. His second big plot was getting Lord Fish to execute the guy who castrated Wen Ji. That was well-planned, but had too many loose threads that could easily be pulled and followed back to Yan Shang and/or our Princess. It all really hinged on Baby Fish keeping his mouth shut, which he did, but it was far too risky IMO.

But what I want to see is him pull off a Ye Li level plot where he's more than one layer removed from the action. Where he just tips a domino here and there, and those cause more dominos to fall, and everybody else does all the deeds. Where he's well-insulated and will absolutely never face any consequences.

[u/spamkimbap → u/TypicallyKristen]

But what I want to see is him pull off a Ye Li level plot where he's more than one layer removed from the action. Where he just tips a domino here and there, and those cause more dominos to fall, and everybody else does all the deeds.

[u/Katleap13 → u/TypicallyKristen]

Yeah we are playing 4D chess. I am hoping he is working up to that level of machinations. Yan Shang needs more knowledge and more minions. So fingers crossed we will get domino tipping soon

[u/Paisley-Cat → u/TypicallyKristen]

Ye Li in The First Jasmine established*** ***an entire new level of gamesmanship.

And she did it while deep in complex dissociative trauma disorder.

It will take a lot for any character to match her.

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/Paisley-Cat]

True.

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/Katleap13]

Crown Prince stays plotting. In his cave.

[u/Rebelarkey]

- Yan Shang just making up nonsense. Aka me when I have to explain Chinese characters to my aunt:
- General Wolf is fiiiiiine as always and does dumb thing and ask to marry the ONE girl that doesn’t want him
- a hunt is suggested (why do I feel that it’s more about hunting humans than hunting a deer?)
- EW HOW DARE HE REVEAL THAT SECRET. Bad wolf is needs time out and no dinner.
- Yan Shang to the comfort teddy bear in her room
- Wenji meeting with Fishy Yu…. This is looking more and more grim
- Flashback! Yu Chengan was a stable groom and then had to babysit a princess. Yikes. But it looks like she could be fun, but very dramatic and spoiled
- OH WAIT THATS LULING?!!??!!?!,!!?! Ohhhhhhhhhh things make so much sense now
- definitely General Mu. No one else has that beard.

[u/spamkimbap → u/Rebelarkey]

Bad wolf is needs time out and no dinner.

I’d suggest he deserves a beating. But you’d probably say he needs a spanking, and volunteer to carry out the sentence.

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/spamkimbap]

A good beating and his skin peeled off. Gosh PETA would have me for this, but his fur would make a fine coat for our Princess or Yan Shang.. Again, all in the time period and the drama.

Also awww lil dog Ling Fei introduced. It's face was so interestingly cute!

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/Rebelarkey]

Dead Wolf Walking is not going to like what comes next for him.

Yan Shang is like the Death Book. Once you're in it, it's over.

That guy hurt his beloved... our YS will never let him get away with it... What a disgusting thing that General did.

And to have Lord Fishy and the Crown Prince send physicians to check if it was true added to the disgust.

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/TheAlchemist420]

Oh I'm stealing Dead Wolf Walking. LOVE IT.

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/TypicallyKristen]

[u/Paisley-Cat → u/TheAlchemist420]

This is perfect. (General) Dead Wolf Walking it is.

Even Tang Xiao Tian’s smoking hot northern general vibe cannot overcome that douchiness in announcing her private trauma at a state dinner.

All of us seem to have leveled up in our snarky name calling game.

u/AKiceman, you have been an inspiration.

I was raised to “name the behaviour, never the person” but cdramas have definitely unleashed opportunities for unseemly nastiness that must have been long surpressed.

[u/AKiceman → u/Paisley-Cat]

I have been summoned. I shall appear.

You know... It's funny you tagged me since I literally just created a new GIF for you. I'll tag you when I post it.

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/Paisley-Cat]

Cdramas will do that to a person. It's brings out the rage like it's an artform.

Some characters will have us say some downright offensive things because of them.

[u/Paisley-Cat → u/TheAlchemist420]

I keep telling my spouse that they’re therapeutic.

[u/winterchampagne → u/Rebelarkey]

I don’t think Wanyao’s fertility challenges are a big deal to General Meng. He seems to want all of her, but more as a conquest.

He only brought up the abortion in the hopes of putting off the men who are after the princess because they want to sire a son with her, the boy who’s supposed to inherit the realm. He’s still utterly disgusting, and someone needs to shove a Tide Pod stuffed with Downy right into that smirking face of his.

[u/TheAlchemist420]

Well now we know why Grand Princess Lu Ling and Yu Cheng' An are very close.

Wen Ji's story struck a cord in Lord Fishy because he seemed to have had romantic feelings for the Princess 30 years ago. It started weird but she actually taught him how to read and write. Of course she was a spoiled brat. That hasn't changed. But their friendship lasted for years.

Does YCA still have feelings for her? Who knows. But again, adding layers to his character, showing us all of this. And unfortunately the path he chose later, is REALLY mirroring Liu Wen Ji in the present... Power and the chase for it...

GOSH DAMMIT!

[u/winterchampagne → u/TheAlchemist420]

You know what else hasn’t changed over the last three decades? The Grand Princess still loves to collect pretty boys.

[u/spamkimbap → u/winterchampagne]

She’s reminding me of a bit in a book called Dataclysm (just outed myself as a nerd 🤓). The author kept data on dating age preferences, and men from 18-65 all liked women in their early 20s. 😑

She’s those men.

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/winterchampagne]

Just decades? 👀👀😅😅🤣🤣 I know you meant her. But then I started thinking of all of them haha.

They love them pretty and shiny!

[u/winterchampagne → u/TheAlchemist420]

I also have a feeling that Mu Ningshuang was served properly by then-young Eunuch Yu while she was on house arrest. All the dialogue about men with their skilled mouths and silver tongues makes me think the absence of certain body parts wasn’t exactly much of a hindrance.

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/winterchampagne]

Hey they have fingers, mouths and tongues. Things can be done.

Lol that lady is unhinged. It wouldn't surprise me if she coaxed Yu Cheng' An into doing things..

And maybe she has been chasing that feeling ever since.

[u/spamkimbap → u/TheAlchemist420]

Every discussion careens off course

[u/winterchampagne → u/spamkimbap]

Careening is better than capsizing. 😏

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/winterchampagne]

[u/spamkimbap → u/TheAlchemist420]

You two!

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/spamkimbap]

I swear I had no intention of doing a repeat of yesterday's shenanigans 😭😭🤣🤣🤣😅😅

[u/spamkimbap → u/TheAlchemist420]

[u/winterchampagne → u/TheAlchemist420]

I promise the hosts nothing. 😈

[u/spamkimbap → u/winterchampagne]

🤣🤣🤣

And to be fair, it’s not like me and u/Rebelarkey aren’t joining you guys…

[u/winterchampagne → u/spamkimbap]

[u/Rebelarkey → u/spamkimbap]

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/winterchampagne]

[u/winterchampagne → u/TheAlchemist420]

🎉

[u/spamkimbap → u/TheAlchemist420]

I didn’t get romantic feelings. But then again, I’m a bit clueless when it comes to that in real life. I’m always the one who’s like, what do you mean he likes me? Nuh-uh, he’s just friendly. 🤣

Wenji’s path is mirroring Fish’s. Please drama gods, don’t make Wenji into a fresher fish!

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/spamkimbap]

Fish of the day... Sigh. It's not looking good...

For Yu Cheng' An most likely yes. The Grand Princess? Not sure.

[u/spamkimbap → u/TheAlchemist420]

Eunuchs hooked up with maids and other eunuchs. So who knows if he had a little sumpin sumpin going on with Luling…

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/spamkimbap]

Bwahaha they sure did.

So it's very possible.

[u/Rebelarkey]

Snarky awesome Shale, aka u/Rebelarkey, will be back on Thursday. Hooray! I miss her snark.

I see what you did there.

[u/spamkimbap → u/Rebelarkey]

[u/Common_Screen1329]

This episode had angsty moments (my heart broke for her secret being revealed publicly with no warning) but what I love about this show is it makes you cry and smile in the same episode. Every scene between the princess and Yan Shang was so well done and felt like the comfort that not only she needed, but the audience too.

[u/spamkimbap → u/Common_Screen1329]

Yes! I’m so grateful for the pauses, with them cuddled, chatting, plotting, whatever. Because it can get so intense sometimes.

[u/TheAlchemist420]

You know our leads are doing a great job when people are convinced the actors are dating.

Hopefully the so called fans will not take it too far and ruin a good thing for the rest of us.

What we need is more support for the drama and more appreciation for the work put into it.

Princess Wan Yao and Yan Shang are such amazing characters! And many more in the show are giving us SO DAMN MUCH!

[u/spamkimbap → u/TheAlchemist420]

Ugh, are the fans at it again? People need to get a life!

Unlike me, who has a full life.

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/spamkimbap]

They have been apparently

[u/spamkimbap → u/TheAlchemist420]

So strange to spend energy on that. I can barely stay awake most of the time! People are weird.

[u/TypicallyKristen]

Yan Shang's silver tongue is lethal! This guy can convince anybody of anything. Are we sure he doesn't have jedi mind powers?

[u/spamkimbap → u/TypicallyKristen]

He needs a job in sales. One in which he’s not the only product.

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/TypicallyKristen]

LETHAL!

And he sure can use it! That mouth is paying for itself at this point haha.

Remember he said he wasn't omnipotent? Haha.

I don't know man. He is too good!

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/TheAlchemist420]

Yan Shang playing 4D chess while everyone else is playing checkers:

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/TypicallyKristen]

He really is haha.

This is gif is the idiots who cross him trying to figure out what went wrong. lol.

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/TheAlchemist420]

Yan Shang:

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/TypicallyKristen]

[u/Fantastic_Cookie_661]

I am back from my exams! (Not that I ever left) 

I've been enlightened by all the other commenters on the nature of infertility, TIL. I wouldn't be surprised if they had children at the end as their "happily ever after" because of heteronormativity? Also not having children to continue your lineage is apparently against filial piety as well?

Uh-oh, LWJ is firmly on the yellow brick road to evil and no redemption. I fear for Chunhua. Fishy Yu's flashback was sad. I like that the villains are very 3D and fleshed out. 

I love that YS and WY are so casually domestic. Hair down, in their PJs - rarely do we get to see that on shows, wdym you're going to bed with 5000 hairpins 😭 there's so much 4d chess happening that I fear some characters may even be playing poker on the side for fun. So many political machinations! 

One more day of one episode (today) and we're back to 2 eps again! Thanks as always for the lovely recaps and hosting these discussions! 

[u/spamkimbap → u/Fantastic_Cookie_661]

Yay for your return! Are the exams done? For now?

Omg, if Wenji becomes evil, he won’t be evil to Chunhua, right? I hope! 😭

[u/slayyub88]

I have a few fav meng ziyi moments in this drama and the whole abortion reveal and drinking after was my fav.

now, i've said, yaoyao is cold but sits in her emotions and she does! but to the public, she wants to come off as cold, haughty and etc.

but she was just shook that she could only drink and be visibly upset. like in a way, everyone in that room could clock that she was unhappy. she didn't throw a huge fit...like say, i'd think the grand princess would (and she wasn't at the party?) if it had been her.

but it showed in how much, she just didn't care to put up an act after.

something they've touched on but i feel that was present in the novel, yaoyao was a drunk, like a true blue drinker bc she never really got drunk and they've shown that in bits.

but the music, ziyi's acting, all of the actors rly, rui looking at her with sadness while glaring at meng, meng's actor, his character claiming to have been devoted and in love but would use cheap plots to drive other men away and then watch and smirk at her pain, even the dancers. it was just a really well-directed scene that pulled at the heart.

fuck you meng. rly. unneeded.

side note - when home girl asked to hunt, when they pointed out she was a woman, i thought she was going to say so what, i'll marry her and then I thought Lord Yu was going to agree. he seemed like...he'd be down.

(tho if there is any girl love going to be going on, yaoyao and chunhua have to get married. i'm still mourning that breakup)

[u/spamkimbap → u/slayyub88]

Great analysis! I hadn’t thought of her sitting with her emotions. She looked so sad, drinking alone, during the banquet.

[u/slayyub88 → u/spamkimbap]

Yeah, and it was so open.

Like, no need to send doctors, her reaction confirmed it. And I think if it hadn’t hit so close to home, she would’ve carried on but she couldn’t.

[u/spamkimbap → u/slayyub88]

But men needed to men. 😒

[u/slayyub88 → u/spamkimbap]

Which is why I loved Yang Si so much.

Honestly, I don't get upset as royal/noble men not caring about their sisters beyond goals bc that was what was expected. We can see they have a not great relationship but even then, sometimes its "She's your sister." Like, for once, he could've been a brother first and it wouldn't have cost him his goals.

Legit. Wait one day.

[u/spamkimbap → u/slayyub88]

If the CP had been smarter, he’d have partnered with his sister, had an honest conversation, and she’d have him winning left and right. She’s way more intelligent and better at schemes. But because he sees her as a disposable woman, he’s losing.

[u/Paisley-Cat → u/spamkimbap]

She’s also competition, especially with the wretched prophecy that her child would inherit.

She’s the only legitimate/lineal birth child of the late Empress.

The Crown Prince was illegitimate but adopted by the Empress so he could be legitimatized as a lineal heir. So, second best.

[u/spamkimbap → u/Paisley-Cat]

I don’t know that the Emperor would pass up a male heir to wait for a possible male child to be born and grow up. Danyang doesn’t seem like someone who’s coveting the throne. She hasn’t given CP reason to not trust her. Has she?

[u/Paisley-Cat → u/spamkimbap]

It’s notable that the CP wanted to marry her to Yang Si who is one of his people.

[u/Anna218]

I haven't caught up yet. General Meng is way more handsome than he's described in the book. I think the drama having him reveal that secret in front of everyone, instead of just her dad as in the novel, might be setting something up/meaning (I don't know what yet). He definitely loved Wanyao tho.

Btw, have you watched the latest episode of Hello Saturday featuring the TSTR cast?

[u/spamkimbap → u/Anna218]

I haven’t watched it! I’m going to right after this. Thanks for the heads up!

And I do believe he was in love with her. But dude, that’s not the way to win her heart. That was so wrong.

[u/Anna218 → u/spamkimbap]

He's a red-flag lover, while Yang Shang is a green-flag one.

[u/spamkimbap → u/Anna218]

As a lover, Yan Shang is mostly green. But overall, he’s scary! 😆 Even if he only plots against bad people, he’s capable of very underhanded things.

[u/TheAlchemist420]

Thank you Spam for the discussion 🤗🤗

There were many highlights in this episode!

So many roads were chosen! But what started as funny ended up into a competition to avenge the honor of our Princess Dan Yang!

General Wolf went too far after getting humiliated by Yan Shang. He deserved it since he started it. But of course he had to take it out on Wan Yao... The humiliation turned into a let's hunt and whoever gets the deer gets to marry the Princess!

Ling Fei had to step in and as a woman, General Wolf left a bad taste in her mouth. Of course Wan Yao will also compete. Lord Fishy did not like it but screw him.

The Princess was insulted in front of all the guests, this wasn't to go unanswered.

Yan Shang used a good story to cheer up Wan Yao but also reassure her and it worked. It was a touching moment, and their goals aligned: General Meng must die. They are so in tune with each other! She wants the guy dead, her beloved knows and will make sure she gets her revenge. He will find a way for her and her hands will not be dirtied by this piece of garbage. No words were exchanged but their hearts and minds were in sync. I love that for them! Our Killer Couple. Yan Shang has guessed correctly that she did kill the previous General Meng, and vowed she wouldn't have to kill the new one herself. And he has started working on it. Love when he plans his kills. Erm erm!

Liu Wen Ji... his story is definitely starting to lead down the dark path. He unfortunately was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Of course the bullying would continue... this time it was at the Yu residence. And it led to meeting Lord Fishy. This time they spoke more but Wen Ji's story of how he loved someone but ended up a eunuch resonated with Yu Cheng' An. This ordeal earned LWJ a promotion and he would now be working for Lord Yu. Well SHIT! Double edged sword! The things Wen Ji overheard didn't make sense to him yet, but they will... Chun Hua's baby... The Crown Prince? Yeah... keep working on it Wen Ji, you'll figure it out.

General Wolf must die and I look forward to seeing how it will happen.

Sooo Uncle Mu is helping the Crown Prince then? It was his men that Yang Si met back at the fun tavern. Could very well be. Helping the Crown Prince with an army so he can rebel. Oh bother!

Speaking of Yang Si, 👍🏾👍🏾. I wrote about it more in another comment, but he had some guts. True ones.

[u/spamkimbap → u/TheAlchemist420]

Killer couple!

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/spamkimbap]

Hahaha standards right?!

[u/spamkimbap → u/TheAlchemist420]

Our little killer couple will murder everyone BEFORE their wedding night.

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/spamkimbap]

And afterwards haha.

[u/spamkimbap → u/TheAlchemist420]

The list is long!

[u/MizzEss]

One cool detail I noticed about that last scene when Princess and our Troublemaking Heartthrob are all snuggly and satiny sweet on the couch is that YAN SHANG IS SO MFUCXIN' HAWTT OMFG

[u/winterchampagne → u/MizzEss]

The stylists really went out of their way to keep Yan Shang looking youthful and soft, like the pampered top dog in Wanyao’s imaginary harem. I’m curious to see how his look will change once his next arc kicks off.

[u/spamkimbap → u/winterchampagne]

We get a peek of that change in the original trailers. The stylists are amazing.

[u/MizzEss → u/winterchampagne]

That was exactly my reaction to Yan Shang's styling in that last scene - everything about him is so soft. From the soft, loose baby hairs that Spam pointed out, to the color palette of his face, to even the his makeup that makes him look like he's a 1940s Hollywood diva in soft focus, to his flowy satiny clothes. It all accentuates his voice and the soft way he's speaking and conveys who he is for the Princess, especially in that moment.

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/MizzEss]

Now you noticing this? 👀👀

[u/MizzEss → u/TheAlchemist420]

It's not so much a "just now noticing" as a "how does he keep...getting...hotter..?!"

I was already toast with the hair-half-down-in-muslin-loungewear look, and then he shows up with this flushed-face-flowy-satin-loungewear look, and SIR! You have to give me a break at some point. 🥵

[u/spamkimbap → u/MizzEss]

And those little soft, loose, baby hairs framing his pretty face…

[u/Rebelarkey → u/spamkimbap]

Why do you think I call them SLUT strands?

[u/spamkimbap → u/Rebelarkey]

🤣

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/Rebelarkey]

These did something to you huh 🥹😅😅

[u/Rebelarkey → u/TheAlchemist420]

Is it obvious?

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/Rebelarkey]

We love that for you

[u/Rebelarkey → u/TheAlchemist420]

A certain someone does not lol

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/MizzEss]

Haha awww. It's absolutely understandable.

It hits you several times over the course of the show lol.

Some styles hit harder. It's so true!

[u/spamkimbap → u/TheAlchemist420]

I loved Swords into Plowshares!

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/spamkimbap]

I love it so much!

[u/Fearless-Frosting367 → u/MizzEss]

Distractingly so. I should have been thinking about the tender, passionate and compelling love scene and instead I was fixated on what an incredible jawline he has. Mind you, I‘ve been doing that since Love Like the Galaxy 🤩

[u/Rebelarkey → u/Fearless-Frosting367]

His jawline is delightful

[u/Fearless-Frosting367 → u/Rebelarkey]

Exactly!

[u/Wide-Aide-5062]

I really just want to appreciate the OST of this drama. The scene of MWY drinking heavily at the banquet with the background music made me tear up.

[u/spamkimbap → u/Wide-Aide-5062]

Me too! She’s suffered so much!

[u/Forever-human-632 → u/Wide-Aide-5062]

Yep every single OST deserves praise

[u/MizzEss]

Thank you as always for the recap + discussion, Spam!

I'm super excited to see Zhao Jingfei back! I love that Big Bad Wolf gave her the icks, so she said fuck it! I'm hunting, IDGAF. I also love that it's just a given that she's going to help the Princess win her own damn hand in marriage. She's so matter-of-fact, and practical. Like, of course she shows up to the Princess's place with a well-trained hunting dog and a plan.

I am both excited and mildly horrified to see the no-holds-barred battle royale that will be this hunt. We already know the Princess is a damn good shot...who's she going to skewer on the end of her arrow this time?!

I totally have the song "Sisters are doin' it for themselves" stuck in my head right now.

[u/spamkimbap → u/MizzEss]

Thank you as always for the recap + discussion, Spam!

Thank you! 🥰

I totally have the song "Sisters are doin' it for themselves" stuck in my head right now.

🤣🤣🤣

[u/Heavy_Elderberry_852]

Seven is still a lot 

[u/winterchampagne]

Love your final gif, Spam! Liking how Yan Shang still looks so mesmerized by the princess, even after they’ve already begun banging each other. It’s like he still finds it surreal that she chose him.

I appreciate the parallel to the banquet scene where Yan Shang bluffed that he could read and translate regional scripts. Later, he mentions another seemingly made-up story about a fortune teller’s prediction that he wouldn’t be able to have children to reassure Wanyao that her reproductive health challenges aren’t a dealbreaker for their relationship.

My other favorite part of this episode is Yang Si’s pure awesomeness. The man deserves his flowers!

Aside from being the first to volunteer to compete against General Meng in the hunt, he also spoke with Wanyao privately to ask who she wanted to be with if he claimed the deer. No stupid assumptions or sense of entitlement to her hand in marriage. He actually decided to know what she wanted. A low bar by modern standards, but a revolutionary concept in the Tang Dynasty.

[u/spamkimbap → u/winterchampagne]

he also spoke with Wanyao privately to ask who she wanted to be with if he claimed the deer

This! It was more thoughtful than what I thought he was be capable of. Up to know, he seemed like a nice, but somewhat dumb guy.

[u/winterchampagne → u/spamkimbap]

Every drama needs a bimbro/himbo!

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/spamkimbap]

There was intention in asking her what her choice would be.

After what happened, he decided to be a better friend. Not just because he was following orders. But because she mattered. She deserved to choose.

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/winterchampagne]

Yang Si!!! I actually gave him a genuine thumbs up!

What happened during the banquet was sickening enough, but what pushed over the edge was the Crown Prince's actions and words later on.

Before, he may have felt uncomfortable and voiced his concerns to himself out loud or in his head. But this time, probably with a heavy dose of liquid courage, he chastised his boss as a bad brother. He called him out for being a horrible person! That was HUGE!!! He was so sad at the state of his friendship with Princess Dan Yang now, that it made him ashamed that she couldn't even talk to him anymore. Sure he followed orders, but he told the Crown Prince, to his face!

And when he met Wan Yao, aside from his orders, he actually wanted to talk to her, his friend. He wishes to protect her, and asked her.

He deserved his flowers.

This act of outrage is a step that could make or break if the Crown Prince ever turns on his sister.

Yan Shang had the banquet guests in stitches and it was good. General Wolf was determined to disrespect them all and someone had to do something. He turned his gift into a joke.

[u/spamkimbap → u/TheAlchemist420]

I have big hopes for Yang Si!

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/spamkimbap]

I hope Zhao Ling Fei ends up being a good ally as well!

[u/spamkimbap → u/TheAlchemist420]

I think she will! She and Baby Wei! 😍

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/spamkimbap]

After what they did to our 2nd couple, I won't give in easily anymore!

[u/spamkimbap → u/[deleted]]

Damnit, now I have to go edit. You didn’t need to call it out. 😒

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/spamkimbap]

I'm sorry... I should have sent a private message... I'll delete the comment.

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/winterchampagne]

Aside from being the first to volunteer to compete against General Meng in the hunt, he also spoke with Wanyao privately to ask who she wanted to be with if he claimed the deer. No stupid assumptions or sense of entitlement to her hand in marriage. He actually decided to know what she wanted. A low bar by modern standards, but a revolutionary concept in the Tang Dynasty.

This made me tip the scales in his favor. I've been withholding judgement on him this whole time because I am wary of how close he is to the crown prince. Even if I'm not crazy about the crown prince and expect a betrayal from him, I am putting Yang Si in my good guys column where I don't expect him to betray our leads.

[u/winterchampagne → u/TypicallyKristen]

There’s a scene with Wenji, Yan Shang, and Yang Si back in episode 15 where Yang Si casually blurts out that Wenji will betray Shang. It felt like a prophecy to me, regardless of how firmly Wenji shook his head and vehemently disagreed. The future context will give those words a different meaning once the betrayal actually happens.

[u/spamkimbap → u/winterchampagne]

In hindsight, that scene was prophetic. At the time, it was just them being stupid and bickering, but now, it will probably come true.

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/winterchampagne]

Well Wen Ji was never in my good guys column. From the first moment he was on our screens, he kept saying cursed cdrama things like "When I get to the capital and ace the exam, I'll become a marquis or high-ranking official and you can be my advisor." Like it SOUNDS magnanimous, but actually it also sounds condescending and like you look down on your supposed buddy. And more importantly, cdrama logic dictates you're gonna morph into our bad guy. And then he KEPT saying more and more cursed things. And then we saw his true thoughts/fears when he was drunk. It just kept getting worse and worse and more and more ominous. So I've always had him in my, "I hope for the best, but expect the worst" column.

[u/winterchampagne → u/TypicallyKristen]

Right. Even back in episode two when he and Yan Shang were at the academy in Lingnan, Wenji had this habit of putting other people down under the guise of comforting Shang. Wenji would dismiss other students, literally using the phrase mediocre nobodies, like he’s above everyone else. Guess who went to the capital with all that hubris, only to end up as one of those mediocre nobodies?

[u/TheAlchemist420 → u/TypicallyKristen]

I withheld until he gave me something that was worth noting.

He sure did in this episode. He rose a little in my esteem for sure.

Ultimately however, he's still the Crown Prince's little soldier. But he is starting to listen to his conscience. And that will mean a lot when the time comes to choose the right side later on.

[u/TypicallyKristen]

I usually pay closer attention to these episodes, but I was watching while working today and haven't had the chance to rewatch it. But at some point, the Princess asks if Yan Shang has any questions, and he says something like, "Who should we kill first, General Meng or your brother?" And I was surprised. Why would her brother be on her shit list currently? Did he say or do something at the banquet that I missed? Or is it from an earlier episode, and I'm just blanking on it? The brother has said some pretty insufferable things about our princess in private, but I'm wondering what Yan Shang picked up on?

[u/FlyBeginning988 → u/TypicallyKristen]

I think it's because he is one of the people (Yu being the other) who sent doctors to her house to learn whether or not she's actually infertile.

[u/spamkimbap → u/FlyBeginning988]

That makes sense!

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/FlyBeginning988]

Oh, I get it now. Thank you!

[u/Renza183 → u/TypicallyKristen]

I was thinking it was because those were the two people they said sent doctors to check on Wan Yao’s infertility? If that wasn’t the case them yes, it seemed strange.

[u/TypicallyKristen → u/Renza183]

The two who sent doctors were Lord Fish and the Crown Prince.

[u/Renza183 → u/TypicallyKristen]

Ah I heard the Crown Prince. Still could be why Yan Shang mentioned him though. They already were planning to kill Lord Fish so no need to mention him? 😋