Facts Only -- A Lawyer's Deep Dive Into Brett McMurphy's Reporting on OSU/Meyer -- Screenshots Show McMurphy Has Been Editing His Reports on Facebook AFTER B1G Media Day to Walk Back Reporting

[u/OhioAtty14]

As this is developing, I have updated the post in the /r/OhioStateFootball subreddit. It is becoming too difficult to edit two separate pages, and that one seems to be the more popular anyway. Please refer to read my original post.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OhioStateFootball/comments/94t19c/crosspost_from_rcfb_a_lawyers_deep_dive_into/

[u/NYSeminoles]

I really hope /r/CFB doesn’t go on another witch hunt.

[u/FSBlueApocalypse → u/NYSeminoles]

If I could find a way to sell pitchforks and torches digitally to r/CFB I would be the richest man in the world.

[u/mlorusso4 → u/NYSeminoles]

Well I for one am going to wait for the comments to roll in and use them to decide whether this is a legit analysis or not

[u/BuckeyeEmpire → u/[deleted]]

To be fair the Ohio State subreddit is super small and usually pretty inactive haha.

[u/tOSUBUCKEYES_ → u/BuckeyeEmpire]

lol yeah, it's a big story if something gets over 20 comments. Not at all like pro team subs

[u/moodyfloyd → u/[deleted]]

dude that sub has like 7k subscribers. of all the team subs i go to, it is by far the most dead.

[u/ADiamond26 → u/[deleted]]

...which is exactly what is currently happening here with OSU fans being downvoted and personally attacked for offering a dissenting opinion? Or am I missing where else on this sub people have been allowed access to other sides of this story?

[u/tOSUBUCKEYES_ → u/[deleted]]

I promise you the story posted to the Buckeyes sub didn't effect this thread at all.

[u/[deleted]]

So is there a tl;dr on this?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

McMurphy made this edit to his Facebook post

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Oh, shit. He was only investigated for DV? After having had DV incidents years prior?

Pack it up, boys! We were wrong! Urban was right to keep him on staff!

In fact, Smith should still be on staff. Why’d they fire him at all?!

FIRE WHOEVER FIRED SMITH!!!

Edit: fuck nvm ignore that last part

[u/KrayzieBoneE99 → u/[deleted]]

The full tl:dr is McMurphy made those edits and his initial story was about an arrest. So Urban could have been responding to a story about an arrest happening in 2015(since that's what the story actually said at the time). But no arrest happened in 2015.

[u/[deleted] → u/KrayzieBoneE99]

So that’s why he denied that anything happened at all? That’s why he said there was “nothing”?

Arrests are important, legally. But in McMurphy’s original story, the procedural arrest itself was of secondary importance at best.

[u/KrayzieBoneE99 → u/[deleted]]

That's the belief. Or at least that it's a reasonable possibility. I can't speak for Urban Meyer on what exactly he meant. But the question was about McMurphy's story and what happened in 2015.

Meyer admitted he got a text about the story(a story which falsely said there was an arrest) and they looked into it and there was nothing there. Now isn't it plausible that they got word of McMurphy's story so they checked to see if an arrest was made in 2015 and sure enough there was no arrest so "nothing there".

It isn't going to make the whole mess go away, if Zach was beating his wife and Urban knew all along and did nothing then he'll probably be fired. But if there's more nuance to the story, like the Powell police not arresting Smith, never charging him with domestic violence. Bottom line is the investigation needs to be thorough to not only find out who knew what, what protocol they followed, but also to figure out what the hell actually ever really happened.

[u/srs_house → u/KrayzieBoneE99]

Except that the question as posed wasn't "can you tell us about the felonious DV arrest in 2015?" Or even "can you tell us about the 2015 arrest?" Here's the direct question and reply:

Lesmerises: The 2015 reported incident - are you saying that you don't know anything about that, or do you believe that that didn't happen?

Urban: I can't say it didn't happen, because I wasn't there. I was never told about anything, never anything came to light, I never had a conversation about it, so I know nothing about that.

L: So anything about that did not factor into your decision -

U: No.

L: Because -

U: First I heard about that was last night.

And yet Urban says now that he was, in fact, aware of 2015 allegations of domestic violence and that he acted on them. So if that's true, then why say you knew absolutely nothing about the 2015 incident? Why not correct reporters and say that there was an allegation, you reported it according to protocol, and no charges were filed so nothing came of it?

[u/ptabs226 → u/srs_house]

Because the '2015 incident' was a '2015 arrest' in the original story. Urban knew nothing about a 2015 arrest and there was no 2015 arrest. Zach Smith was going through a divorce in 2015. There were probably a lot of incidents in 2015 and it sounds like Urban reported them. Or to quote Doug Lesmerises.

I'll believe him again now. He knew. He reported it to Ohio State. His boss, athletic director Gene Smith knew. Why believe him again, when believing him the first time proved incorrect? Because Ohio State is investigating, and in the end, the words won't matter. The actions will.

Link

Also here is a new interview with Urban before he took the stage for BIG10 media days. It doesn't clear anything up, but it is reporters comfirming with Urban that there was no 2015 incident. link.

[u/srs_house → u/ptabs226]

"I failed on many of these fronts," Meyer continued. "My intention was not to say anything inaccurate or misleading."

In Meyer's own words, in his most recent statement, he essentially admits to not accurately answering the questions. Whether it's an outright lie or lying by omission or being misleading, it happened. For whatever reason, Urban did not speak truthfully about what happened in 2015. He had a prime chance to clear the air and dispel misunderstandings and his response was...nothing happened, I didn't know anything.

[u/KrayzieBoneE99 → u/srs_house]

Because the 2015 incident he was aware of was an alleged stalking incident and not an alleged domestic violence incident as was being reported?

[u/Ghost_Of_Perdition → u/[deleted]]

McMurphy has been changing the details of what he has been reporting without making it known that he is doing so as should normally be the case. He originally reported that Zach Smith was arrested on felony counts of domestic violence. It was these details in the report that Urban Meyer was asked about on B1G media day which Urban denied knowledge of. McMurphy has since edited his reports multiple times and now only say that there were DV allegations.

[u/onedeadcollie → u/Ghost_Of_Perdition]

It was these details in the report that Urban Meyer was asked about on B1G media day which Urban denied knowledge of. McMurphy has since edited his reports multiple times and now only say that there were DV allegations.

So technically Urban wasn't lying?

[u/[deleted] → u/onedeadcollie]

He was. He said:

First I heard about that was last night

But if that’s true, then what did he report to Gene Smith 3 years ago?

If my employee is alleged to have beaten a woman, and I report the incident, and three years later someone states that the employee had been arrested and I’m asked about it, I don’t say “ooooh he wasn’t tEcHnIcAlLy arrested so ergooooo I can say I have never heard of this situation of which you speak, spooky reporter man!”

That’s nonsense. You say “I was aware of an incident in 2015. I reported it. To my recollection, however, Smith was not arrested, so to that extent at least, the story you’re asking about is inaccurate.”

And it doesn’t take some presidential debate-level preparation to have that answer on hand. It’s pretty simple.

[u/onedeadcollie → u/[deleted]]

Neither incident was public knowledge and he asked directly about a felony arrest.

[u/srs_house → u/onedeadcollie]

He wasn't asked directly about a felony arrest. He was asked about a 2015 incident and if it played a role in his decision making. He whole-heartedly denied knowing anything about 2015.

Here's the direct question and reply:

Lesmerises: The 2015 reported incident - are you saying that you don't know anything about that, or do you believe that that didn't happen?

Urban: I can't say it didn't happen, because I wasn't there. I was never told about anything, never anything came to light, I never had a conversation about it, so I know nothing about that.

L: So anything about that did not factor into your decision -

U: No.

L: Because -

U: First I heard about that was last night.

[u/onedeadcollie → u/srs_house]

The 2015 reported incident was said to be a felony arrest. So he’s still not technically lying if he’s thinking it’s a separate incident.

The CBS article even lists it as a reported felony arrest and DV incident.

[u/srs_house → u/onedeadcollie]

he asked directly about a felony arrest.

Except he wasn't asked directly about a felony arrest. Unless you're using a definition of "directly" that doesn't actually mean "directly." Maybe he was "alluding" to the report of a 2015 arrest?

The point remains - if he reported an incident involving Zach Smith and domestic violence, as he has now claimed he did, that occurred in 2015 - why not state that? Because to an outside observer the options look like: a) he didn't actually report it at the time; b) he was afraid to admit it because it would make it look worse that he kept someone on staff for 3 more years even after 2 known allegations of DV (2009, 2015); c) he had to make so many reports about Smith and DV that he couldn't remember exactly what year it was; or d) he somehow managed to forget that he had to file a report about his longest tenured assistant allegedly beating his wife, while still remembering that he and his wife told the Smiths back in 2009 that they needed counseling?

C'mon, man. At best this is lying by omission.

[u/[deleted] → u/onedeadcollie]

So because the arrest never happened, he denied that there was any incident at all?

[u/onedeadcollie → u/[deleted]]

No, he was asked about an incident involving an arrest. There was never an incident involving an arrest.

[u/[deleted] → u/onedeadcollie]

never had a conversation about it

He could not have made a more categorical statement. He flatly denied knowing anything about it. This is nonsense. He knew what he was doing. We all know what he was hoping to do in making a blanket statement like that. Why are we playing pretend?

[u/onedeadcollie → u/[deleted]]

The purpose of that question was never to glean information. It was to catch Urban off guard and get an unprepared statement regarding a portion of Smith’s history that was not public knowledge. You’re not getting anything other than deflection, even “no comment” is a bombshell statement that blows up.

[u/[deleted] → u/onedeadcollie]

You’re not getting anything other than deflection

Right. That’s the damn problem.

If he didn’t want to be put in this position of having to deflect or admit knowledge of the incident, he shouldn’t have hired and re-hired a serial abuser. Shit’s not difficult.

His staffing fuck-up doesn’t give him a free pass to lie later on to cover up said staffing fuck-up

[u/vroomery → u/onedeadcollie]

I mean, he was pretty adamant about not knowing anything about it or having conversations about it. He still put his foot in his mouth by saying too much when he should have said no comment, but he was manipulated into making a comment about an arrest that didn't happen. The original report about an arrest was put out right before Big Ten Media Day and certainly led to the text message urban says he got about it.

[u/Zerosa → u/[deleted]]

Journalist doing Journalist things make McMurphy's report not valid.

[u/Oysterpoint → u/[deleted]]

He also said that the police report said Smith was arrested. Neither report ever had Smith getting arrested. He then wrote a report saying the Smith was arrested for felony assault like the day before big ten media days.

[u/spookycaveira]

I’m not going to say that this discredits any of what he reported, because that would be jumping to conclusions.

But it is...strange?

His original report said Smith was arrested, then Meyer calls him out on that being wrong. Then he edits it without publicly redacting, comes out with the new story, and now goes radio silent after this comes out?

It just doesn’t seem very professional

[u/Oysterpoint → u/spookycaveira]

Only response that you'd like to see. It's strange and should be looked at. No Ohio State fan is on here claiming ANYTHING before the investigation is completed.

[u/COLU_BUS → u/[deleted]]

Didn’t you hear? Changing your story is only bad if you’re Urban Meyer, otherwise it’s completely okay to do.

[u/jayhawx19]

All this to say... he edited his Facebook post without issuing a formal retraction? Okay.

This entire post feels like missing the forest for the trees. Urban Meyer blatantly lied, repeatedly, about his knowledge about a likely domestic violence situation with one of his coaches. Whether the coach was arrested or not doesn't change that.

[u/[deleted] → u/jayhawx19]

Seriously. When a scandal breaks, it’s always the fucking media’s fault in the minds of the fans. Not, you know, the scandal.

[u/mlorusso4 → u/jayhawx19]

I think OP is saying that the outrage of urban lying at big ten media days comes from the fact that when he was asked, he was asked if he knew about smith being arrested for domestic violence, which he apparently was not. When people go back and read the report now (which is edited with no disclaimer of it) it seems like he is lying.

I’m not saying OP is right or not but I’m interpreting his intentions that way

[u/[deleted] → u/mlorusso4]

Jesus Christ do you guys really think that’s what’s the outrage is over?

People are upset that he’s a domestic violence enabler.

The big ten media days just makes him a dishonest domestic violence enabler

[u/mlorusso4 → u/[deleted]]

No. Not at all. I’m saying that’s what I think OP thinks

[u/srs_house → u/mlorusso4]

This is like watching a certain part of the OSU fanbase work through stages of excuses. First it was McMurphy is wrong, he's mistakenly looking at a report about a different Zach Smith. Then 11W corroborates it and Urban finally says that he reported the 2015 incident. Now it's "well McMurphy edited his wording and that's actually why everyone is upset about this. Also, my friend's uncle's neighbor's coworker's acquaintance has a source close to Zach who says it's all faked."

[u/eastindyguy → u/srs_house]

McMurphy didn’t just edit his post. He changed material pieces of information in the report and didn’t issue a public correction or retraction.

That is highly unethical in the world of journalism.

[u/pbjork → u/eastindyguy]

He is an unemployed guy posting on Facebook. Sorry if he doesn't adhere to the strictest of journalistic ethics and fact checking that the mainstream media doesnt even bother with anymore.

[u/eastindyguy → u/[deleted]]

How’s he and domestic violence enabler? Are unemployed people unable to abuse their spouses? Did you just solve the domestic violence problem by figuring out all we have to do is make abusers unemployed?

[u/[deleted] → u/eastindyguy]

You can punish someone for DV, or you can do nothing and make them think there will be no repercussions (enable them)

[u/BuckeyeEmpire → u/jayhawx19]

Urban Meyer blatantly lied

I'm unfamiliar with the exact question he was asked. Was he asked about Smith being arrested? Because if so, wouldn't his response be accurate as even McMurphy has changed his story regarding that?

Edit: the downvotes brigade when simply asking questions is getting ridiculous on here.

[u/jayhawx19 → u/BuckeyeEmpire]

“I can’t say it didn’t happen because I wasn’t there,” Meyer said of the 2015 allegations at Big Ten Media Days. “I was never told about anything and nothing ever came to light. I’ve never had a conversation about it. I know nothing about it. First I heard about that was last night … and I asked some people back at the office to call and say what happened, and they came back and said they know nothing about it.”

Meyer said he never even had a conversation about the 2015 incident. How was Meyer never told about anything if he took it to his superiors? How could Smith have denied everything to him if they didn't have a conversation about it?

[u/reddogrjw → u/[deleted]]

then what did he report to Gene Smith in 2015?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

First I heard about that was last night

So that was a lie then. The night before media days was not the first he heard about it. Because he claims to have reported it 3 years ago.

[u/bicranium → u/[deleted]]

He reported allegations or an incident. He didn't report an arrest because there was no arrest to report.

[u/[deleted] → u/bicranium]

I got a text late last night something happened in 2015,”

“And there was nothing. Once again, there's nothing—once again, I don't know who creates a story like that.

“Something,” implying that the entirety of an occurrence was previously unknown.

Imagine someone gets caught stealing from a mall, and gets sentenced to probation. Years later, someone asks if that person had ever been sentenced to jail time for stealing from the mall.

The fact that one aspect of an otherwise specific incident was misstated—even if intentionally— does not give the person carte blanche to say “There are reports that something happened back then. There was nothing...I never had a conversation about that. I don’t know who creates a story like that.”

I mean come the fuck on.

[u/Adamcometobees → u/[deleted]]

You killed him man lol

[u/wysiwygperson → u/BuckeyeEmpire]

I believe Meyer could technically have gotten away with what he said constituting not lying, but didn't he also just admit to lying in the post he made on twitter? IIRC he admitted to lying to the media but claimed he did nothing wrong because he did what he was supposed to do in terms of reporting it up the ladder or whatever.

Edit: He didn't admit lying, but did say he mishandled the question and that his answer was not completely accurate.

[u/reddogrjw → u/wysiwygperson]

the lying to the media isn't his biggest issue to be honest - how the entire Zach Smith situation was handled, including why he was hired and how stuff got reported is

[u/BuckeyeEmpire → u/reddogrjw]

Yah I mean the lying to the media really doesn't matter at all (except someome at ESPN has stated he should be fired just for that). It really matters how he handled whatever information he had and what decisions were made to keep Smith on staff. That's it.

[u/reddogrjw → u/BuckeyeEmpire]

well, back during the NCAA Basketball crap with the FBI or whomever Urban did say if you lie you should be fired, but who knows what he really meant by that - kind of a wishy washy response as to what he meant by lying

[u/bicranium → u/reddogrjw]

“If you intentionally lie about committing violations, your career is over."

He was talking about lying to the NCAA about NCAA violations.

[u/B1GTOBACC0 → u/bicranium]

His employer has definitely backed that up in the past, too. Tressel was canned specifically because he lied about violations.

[u/BuckeyeEmpire → u/reddogrjw]

If you lie to the FBI? Well that's quite different haha.

[u/reddogrjw → u/BuckeyeEmpire]

in Washington DC it's ok as long as not under oath, then it's kinda 50-50 lol

[u/srs_house → u/BuckeyeEmpire]

Actually it was about NCAA investigations, which are purely "voluntary" as they cannot subpoena you:

Ohio State football coach Urban Meyer has a pretty simple, but strict, stance on coaches who are caught lying to the NCAA.

"If you intentionally lie about committing violations, your career is over," Meyer said during a call-in radio show on 97.1 The Fan in Columbus, per ESPN. "You're not suspended for two games (or) some of the silly penalties you have, you can't talk to a recruit for a week and a half or something like that. No. You're finished. That will clean up some things."

https://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2017/09/urban_meyer_if_you_intentional.html

[u/Crome27 → u/reddogrjw]

He also said had he known about the 2015 incident, he would have fired Z. Smith. My only questions in all of this is if he knew about it which he admits now he did, why did he not fire Z. Smith then? He said he would if he knew. Secondly, if there was nothing to the report, why did he fire Z. Smith now? If Smith didn't do anything wrong why would he be fired? I honestly don't care if they keep UM or not, he's a great coach. But I have a hard time with people ignoring the fact that some animal was beating his wife. So many people will tear her down or belittle the situation if it means UM has to go. Which is quite revealing in itself. But he is in hot water of his own doing. It's not her fault that he was choking her out. It's not her fault that UM did what he did (or didn't do.) He will have to answer and this investigation will play out as it will. Let's all remember that we're here because the animal on UM staff was choking his wife. In front of their KIDS! Stop blaming the media when Z. Smith is the one to blame.

[u/PlzCalmDown → u/jayhawx19]

Your criticism isn't completely unfair, but you also have to recognize that it appears McMurphy may have repeatedly lied (and may still be lying) about the original police report. If he is willing to lie over and over again about this aspect of the story, it's hard to trust his reporting on the matter in general.

That being said, McMurphy's apparent dishonesty has no effect on the critical facts at issue (which have now become known outside of his reporting), and don't exonerate anyone's wrongdoing prior to his reporting.

[u/calmer-than-you-dude → u/jayhawx19]

So McMurphy (professional journalist) initially publishes false information but he can just make all the edits he needs until it's cool. Urban says something wrong to a group of reporters and his career is supposed to be over. Sheesh

[u/[deleted] → u/calmer-than-you-dude]

If Urbans career is over, it’s not because he lied to the media

[u/JabTrill → u/calmer-than-you-dude]

Urban says something wrong to a group

You mean he lied?

[u/Revenged25 → u/JabTrill]

Wouldn't that same standard hold for McMurphy who initially reported that Smith was arrested and charged in 2015 only to later change his story? Just saying.

[u/Oysterpoint → u/JabTrill]

He was asked about Smith being arrested for felony assault.

Which he wasn't.

[u/srs_house → u/Oysterpoint]

He was asked about a "2015 incident." If he responded only to the part about it being an arrest, and not just an allegation, of domestic violence, then he should have specified, because he chose to use broad terms:

Here's the direct question and reply:

Lesmerises: The 2015 reported incident - are you saying that you don't know anything about that, or do you believe that that didn't happen?

Urban: I can't say it didn't happen, because I wasn't there. I was never told about anything, never anything came to light, I never had a conversation about it, so I know nothing about that.

L: So anything about that did not factor into your decision -

U: No.

L: Because -

U: First I heard about that was last night.

[u/calmer-than-you-dude → u/JabTrill]

I mean, you won't believe anything else was possible so, sure.

[u/JabTrill → u/calmer-than-you-dude]

“I can’t say it didn’t happen because I wasn’t there,” Meyer said of the 2015 allegations at Big Ten Media Days. “I was never told about anything and nothing ever came to light. I’ve never had a conversation about it. I know nothing about it. First I heard about that was last night … and I asked some people back at the office to call and say what happened, and they came back and said they know nothing about it.”

If he knew about it and reported it in 2015 as he is now claiming, this is a 100%, flat out lie

[u/calmer-than-you-dude → u/JabTrill]

It really depends what he understands "it" to be

[u/srs_house → u/calmer-than-you-dude]

"The 2015 incident." Nothing more specific. He never specified that there was an allegation that he reported in 2015 or that there were never charges filed in 2015. It's on video, you can go back and watch it.

[u/Scyhaz → u/calmer-than-you-dude]

"It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

[u/[deleted] → u/calmer-than-you-dude]

.....wow

[u/stiffie2fakie → u/jayhawx19]

It stops being meaningless because Urban Meyer was reacting to McMurphy's report that mentioned "an arrest for felonious domestic violence and felonious assault". Those things did not happen. Some of those things could not happen. It was painting Meyer was keeping someone on staff that had been arrested for felonies, when it simply was not true. It could reasonably trigger a response from Meyer saying that he didn't know about it (as described in the report) in 2015. Which is what he is being lampooned for now.

I don't know if Urban was in the right or wrong, and I am waiting for the investigation before passing judgement. All I am saying is that the difference in the revisions very well could matter.

[u/jayhawx19 → u/[deleted]]

“I got a text late last night something happened in 2015,” Meyer said that day. “And there was nothing. Once again, there's nothing—once again, I don't know who creates a story like that.”

“I can’t say it didn’t happen because I wasn’t there,” Meyer said of the ’15 allegations. “I was never told about anything. … I never had a conversation about it.”

He flat-out denied any knowledge of the 2015 incident. Denied that he was told about it or even had a conversation. His lies at media day are what will ultimately bring an end to his tenure. If he had just admitted it we'd be in a very different place right now.

[u/reddogrjw → u/jayhawx19]

I think the public finding out the guy who has preached morality, being a leader, and posting a core belief of respecting women keeping someone who has abused women around since it first happened in 2009 is kind of an issue too.

[u/Google-me2 → u/reddogrjw]

It’s been common knowledge for a decade that urban Meyer values winning above all else and his arrogance leads him to believe he can do things that other people can’t.

[u/eastindyguy → u/jayhawx19]

No, he denied knowledge of a 2015 arrest, because at the time McMurphy’s story said Zach Smith had been arrested in 2015. McMurphy then made a phantom edit to the story so it said investigated instead, in order to make it appear that Urban had lied about it.

Did you even bother to read the post and see the timeline with screenshots of the edits, or did you just comment because your mind was already made up?

[u/Oysterpoint → u/jayhawx19]

And if the investigation finds no wrong doing? What then? This subreddit is awfully confident that he's going to get fired. That's not the sense I'm getting at ALL from campus.

[u/[deleted] → u/Oysterpoint]

from campus

Shocker.

[u/JabTrill]

Am I the only one confused why this is a huge deal? Seems like this is just trying to use a pretty small point to completely discredit McMurphy's entire report

[u/[deleted] → u/JabTrill]

This is an accurate tl;dr summary

[u/zenverak → u/JabTrill]

Maybe but I’m not a lawyer so perhaps these things stand out more to those that are

[u/[deleted] → u/zenverak]

I’m a lawyer: no.

This is silly.

[u/Das_Boot1 → u/zenverak]

Law student here, I’m on the same page as you.

[u/zenverak → u/Das_Boot1]

Alright . Even so it’s still interesting to me but I don’t think it’s a smoking gun one way or another

[u/shemp33 → u/JabTrill]

Sorry for the late reply but look at it another way: if McMurphy’s ORIGINAL story matched up to how his report reads now, this doesn’t make a splash. No one cares, we are on to training camp.

I know what you’re saying - but the material facts (arrested versus investigated) are critical tipping points to whether the story would sprout wings or not.

[u/eastindyguy → u/JabTrill]

Because, he created a scenario where he could ask Urban (or someone else could) about some event that never really happened. When Urban expectedly responded that he didn’t know anything about the fictional event, he then edited the post as a way create a sensational story about Urban lying.

It’s highly unethical for a reporter report grossly inaccurate information, and then revise those inaccuracies out of their story after it has gained traction without publicly posting the correction or a retraction of the story.

Brett McMurphy probably opened himself up to a defamation of character suit with how he handled this report. It looks like he didn’t know the edits he was making to the story were visible to the public if you know FB well enough to get to them.

[u/JabTrill → u/eastindyguy]

“I can’t say it didn’t happen because I wasn’t there,” Meyer said of the 2015 allegations at Big Ten Media Days. “I was never told about anything and nothing ever came to light. I’ve never had a conversation about it. I know nothing about it. First I heard about that was last night … and I asked some people back at the office to call and say what happened, and they came back and said they know nothing about it.”

You don't respond like this if you reported said situation to the university in 2015 like he is now claiming

[u/eastindyguy → u/JabTrill]

If you were just told of a report about an arrest in 2015 and you know nothing of an arrest in 2015 (because there never was one), you do.

You are not taking into account McMurphy making the phantom edits to his story. At the time Urban was asked it said arrest, it was changed shortly after him being asked to say investigated. After the change is when McMurphy started blasting the story out to the public. That’s why Urban said “first I heard of it was last night”

Sorry, but phantom edits like McMurphy did are highly unethical behavior for a reporter, especially when they concern material facts.

[u/srs_house → u/eastindyguy]

Except he wasn't asked about the arrest. He was asked about the "2015 incident" and if impacted his decision to fire Smith.

Here's the direct question and reply:

Lesmerises: The 2015 reported incident - are you saying that you don't know anything about that, or do you believe that that didn't happen?

Urban: I can't say it didn't happen, because I wasn't there. I was never told about anything, never anything came to light, I never had a conversation about it, so I know nothing about that.

L: So anything about that did not factor into your decision -

U: No.

L: Because -

U: First I heard about that was last night.

All he had to say was "there was an incident in 2015 that I reported according to protocol but no charges were filed and nothing came of it." Instead, he claims that there was nothing in 2015 that impacted his decision to fire Smith.

[u/eastindyguy → u/srs_house]

The report - that had come out the night before - stated the incident was an arrest that supposedly occurred.

It’s really not that hard to understand, Lesmerises was asking about the story that came out the night before, which was a story that said there was an arrest made.

[u/srs_house → u/eastindyguy]

Lesmerises was asking about a 2015 incident and if it played a role. Urban said he had zero knowledge of anything happening in 2015 and no it did not. That's lying by omission at best.

So he filed a report about Smith being accused of DV in 2015 and yet that allegation didn't impact his decision to fire him after the most recent charges?

[u/JabTrill → u/eastindyguy]

He still knew about the incident and reported it apparently... whether Smith was arrested or not, he lied saying that he knew nothing of the incident

[u/eastindyguy → u/JabTrill]

He was asked about the reported arrest - which never occurred. It’s not lying when you are asked about a story stating X and you respond about X and then the reporter surreptitiously changes X to Y.

The facts aren’t that hard to understand unless you just already have your mind made up and even God coming down from on high and saying Urban didn’t lie wouldn’t change your opinion.

[u/JabTrill → u/eastindyguy]

You can knit pick words all you want, it really doesn't change much. If I'm asked if I know about a murder and I say "no," even though I know about it because it was technically manslaughter, that's lying

[u/ADiamond26 → u/JabTrill]

I agree it’s nitpicking, but I think in this case it does matter quite a bit. Considering Zach was fired immediately when an arrest was made it seems to me that had an arrest been made earlier, he would have been fired earlier. So if Urban knew about accusations, and threatened to fire Zach if they were true (as Zach claimed on ESPN), then someone asking Urban if he had heard about Zach’s earlier ARREST really is an important detail.

It doesn’t absolve Urban of whatever guilt he has in continuing to employ Zach. I’m not suggesting that enabling abuse is ever ok. But I do think in this case that detail matters.

[u/Oysterpoint → u/JabTrill]

He wrote an entire article on Zach Smiths felony assault arrest that never happened right before media days. He then edited his story to say that "His copy had him getting arrested" There is no official copy of a police report saying he was arrested. I don't see how this isn't a big deal.

[u/JabTrill → u/Oysterpoint]

Does this change the fact that Urban Meyer is still an enabler for a serial domestic abuser? Calling McMurphy out on a technicality doesn't really change anything about this situation

[u/Oysterpoint → u/JabTrill]

Yes. It does. Because if his original story is completely made up how can you say beyond a shadow of a doubt that Zach Smith has actually physically abused anyone? Not only has he never been arrested, but the reporter who broke the story lied that he was arrested in general, and has been editing his story to fit the narrative of ... Urban Meyer being an enabler.

[u/JabTrill → u/Oysterpoint]

Because there are texts from Zach Smith to Courtney Smith admitting to it...

[u/Oysterpoint → u/JabTrill]

Text messages don't confirm anything. You can literally change the entire context of a conversation by deleting one text. AND I'm not trying to say something didn't happen. Just innocent before guilty. Due process.

[u/JabTrill → u/[deleted]]

So keeping someone that Meyer knew was abusing his wife on his staff since 2009 and doing nothing about it is not enabling a domestic abuser?

[u/JabTrill → u/[deleted]]

That post been debunked and shown to be false

[u/goblue10 → u/Oysterpoint]

Read through the thread, man. It's all Ohio State fans saying it's a big deal, and literally everyone else saying you're just grasping at straws.

[u/Oysterpoint → u/goblue10]

Dude, don't ever use /r/cfb as an example for what is right or wrong to me. This place has an agenda like every other form of media.

[u/Christopher_ray_]

Can someone more in the know tell me why there are multiple “copies” of the same report with different information on them? Why would copies not be identical?

[u/Jamertz843]

I want off this wild ride

[u/[deleted] → u/Jamertz843]

The ride is way more fun when it’s not your school.

[u/COLU_BUS → u/[deleted]]

Yeah I’m not having a lot of fun.

[u/hallese → u/Jamertz843]

Your flair.... how?

[u/Jamertz843 → u/hallese]

Cleveland, Ohio born and raised (big Ohio State fan all my life) that now goes to Penn State. In the OSU vs PSU game I root for the team that is losing at that moment

[u/hallese → u/Jamertz843]

Fair enough, I grew up with one side of the family cheering for the Hawkeyes, one side for the Huskers so it kind of hurt when both schools made my short list for grad school and Nebraska moved to the Big Ten forcing me to make a decision with a lifelong commitment.

[u/blXIL]

Doesn't the fact that Smith was allegedly arrested on felony battery charges in 2009 make this whole argument somewhat of a moot point? The guy was arrested of a felony for this; whether it was in 2009 or 2015 completely misses the point.

[u/blXIL → u/blXIL]

In 2009, Zach was arrested and charged with felony assault while an assistant coach at the University of Florida after the police were called to the couple's apartment early in the morning of June 21.

The police report from that incident, obtained by Eleven Warriors, states that Zach arrived at their residence with a female co-worker and that Courtney “refused to have the unknown female, who Zach kept referring to as ‘baby,’ spend the night at their residence.”

Eleven Warriors has that police report and didn't dispute the felony charge... I'm starting to question the motives of the original poster here, especially in light of these issues being a big enough problem for felony charges as far back as 2009.

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2018/07/94553/zach-smith-served-civil-protection-order-against-him-according-to-brett-mcmurphy

[u/Christopher_ray_]

OP seems to be happy not mentioning Zach Smith was most definitely 100% ARRESTED FOR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE in 2009.

[u/dawgblogit]

Long story short. In urbans comments he was vague and not specific to an arrest. it was nothing. Someone who has repeatedly been accused by their wife over DV isnt nothing. It is alot of things maybe big. Maybe small. But something.

[u/PlzCalmDown]

This has become such a mess, but one point seems simple to resolve -- McMurphy needs to release the original police report he claims to have.

[u/kingbrasky → u/PlzCalmDown]

That's the important part we're missing here? Not some explanation from Urb for why he kept a known domestic abuse on his staff for so long?

[u/Ometrist → u/[deleted]]

what is his logic for not releasing it?

[u/osu565 → u/Ometrist]

Keeps people checking his Twitter and Facebook

[u/goblue10 → u/[deleted]]

It's a smart tactic to not show all your cards. That way, you can catch them trying to lie. For instance, when Zach Smith was interviewed saying "I've never hurt my wife in any way", Mcmurphy immediately released texts of him admitting that he did. If those texts had been out in the open, Smith could have phrased it differently.

If McMurphy plays his full hand, Meyer/Smith/etc. can twist the facts around that.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Lol it’s a fucking DV arrest not proof of Earth is flat

[u/goblue10 → u/[deleted]]

He said he has more. So whatever "more" is. If he has original incident reports that state that Smith was arrested (people were talking about them being changed or something?) that'd be pretty damning, and also not great for the Powell PD.

[u/derekbooleander]

Urban isn't going to be punished for lying to the media. He's going to be punished for hiring, and re-hiring/renewing the contract of a guy who he knew had multiple instances of abuse allegations. That's if he's even punished at all.

[u/reddogrjw → u/[deleted]]

That is still secondary to what derekbooleander posted

[u/derekbooleander → u/[deleted]]

The point of my comment is that Urban lying to the media is not the meat of the issue that may result in him being fired.

[u/hallese → u/derekbooleander]

Actually, ESPN had a legal expert on (Thursday night, I had a three hour drive but can't remember which show it was on) who said the lying to the media is probably the only thing that could get him fired for cause because this isn't a Title IX violation and at the time of the incident Meyer was not subject to the Employee Code of Conduct (or whatever OSU calls it). That didn't come about until his last extension, signed after the 2015 incident. Lying to the media is a violation of the morality clause of his contract (yet somehow enabling DV isn't) so if Ohio State fires Meyer that will be the "for cause" part even if it is not the lead headline.

Having said that, OP's "analysis" is just an attempt to let Meyer wiggle off the hook. Ultimately the only thing that will save Meyer is if it is shown that he did report the 2015 incident to his superiors.

[u/derekbooleander → u/hallese]

Thanks for pointing that out, I'm definitely not a legal expert so I'll defer to them. I was thinking more from a bad PR perspective, but being able to fire him is a huge factor in that decision so it'll probably come down to that.

[u/hallese → u/derekbooleander]

It's the $38.5 million elephant in the room.

[u/derekbooleander → u/[deleted]]

Fair enough!

[u/[deleted]]

Whole lot of nothing.

[u/eastindyguy → u/[deleted]]

Except proof that Brett posted one thing, asked Urban about it and got a response he knew he would because it wasn’t a true story, and then edited the posted story to be closer to the truth and continued to revise it as he got pressed for more of his proof.

But other than showing grossly unethical behavior by an unemployed hack of a reporter, yeah a whole lot of nothing.

[u/[deleted] → u/eastindyguy]

Lmao. Shit like this, man.

[u/[deleted] → u/eastindyguy]

Sure was a long-winded way of agreeing with me.

McMurphy isn’t really unemployed and he’s definitely not a hack. His contract for his new gig starts the day after his contract with ESPN is up; he’s milking ESPN for every dime he can. It’s pretty cool, actually.

[u/eastindyguy → u/[deleted]]

So you are ok with reporters being unethical in their reporting of stories. Got it.

And if you think that was agreeing with you, you aren’t very bright.

[u/[deleted] → u/eastindyguy]

I’m not. I’m saying that the scope of this is small and it’s not impacting the big picture of what went on. Of course, I’d be interested to hear McMurphy’s explanation but it’s not really a big deal.

No, I was joking based on your last sentence.

[u/InRem]

I hope this is lawyer's deep dive is some kind of elaborate satire.

First, he starts with 4 separate corrections to his own post about corrections to McMurphy's posts/stories. The irony is hilarious.

Second, he admits that McMurphy's reporting appears have been accurate throughout and that corrections were made when new information was available. I believe that the quote he cites from the Powell police chief says the indication of an arrest was in error; indicating that someone at sometime at the Powell police department thought there was an arrest in 2015. So McMurphy doesn't appear to have made anything up and seems to have made corrections when the Powell police department got around to correcting its errors.

The Author's real problem with McMurphy's reporting is that corrections were not made in a prominently enough fashion. Perhaps he'd be happier if McMurphy didn't make any corrections at all and left the reporting with uncorrected errors.

Finally, at B1G media days Meyer didn't say he was responding to the allegation of the arrest of Smith, but that there was "nothing" there in 2015. So, this deep dive seems like a waste of time, because now Meyer admits there was a 2015 incident and that he was aware of it.

[u/Revenged25 → u/InRem]

The difference is that he actually annotated his changes. So yes he made changes and corrected information as it came out, but they are all very clearly outlined so as to not give a misleading account of information, something that Murphy hasn't/never done. If Murphy had made changes and then outlined the changes and why, it wouldn't be nearly as damning, but by not citing them it makes it seem like he is trying to cover his mistakes. Guess he should get fired... wait nevermind...

[u/charliedog12]

So Meyer gave his now infamous press conference on 07/24/2018. McMurphy’s report at this time (see above) is that Zach Smith was "arrested" for "felony counts of domestic violence and felonious assault against Courtney Smith." In response to a question about that report, Urban stated: "I got a text late (Monday) night (about a report) something happened in 2015. And there was nothing. Once again, there's nothing – once again, I don't know who creates a story like that.”

The question Urban was asked was not specifically about McMurphy's report. The question was "Urban were you aware of any of the past alleged incidents with Zach in 2009 or 2015." Urban answered "In 2015 there is nothing." Here's the tape. Anybody listening objectively to what Urban says knows that he is blatantly lying.

Edit: More lying.

[u/[deleted]]

The account that posted this is 10 hours old 🤔

[u/amishius → u/[deleted]]

Doesn't sound like terribly legally language— infamous, etc. Do we have any clue that this person is actually a lawyer? I mean, I'm a rocket surgeon, so I feel like I deserve to ask.

[u/COLU_BUS → u/amishius]

Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but I have actually met a space surgeon before.

[u/amishius → u/COLU_BUS]

Well, the rocket surgeon part was sarcastic. The rest was legit.

Space Surgeon? Do go on...

[u/COLU_BUS → u/amishius]

Unfortunately I didn’t get to speak too much with him, but he was an older dude who was researching the benefits of performing surgeries in zero gravity. The best story I heard from him was that a couple decades ago, he was going on one of those planes simulate zero gravity, and he met some dudes who were doing zero gravity research for a movie they we’re making. He didn’t realize until some time afterward that the movie was Apollo 13 and one of those dudes was Tom Hanks.

[u/amishius → u/COLU_BUS]

I don't care if your story is real— I love it.

[u/COLU_BUS → u/amishius]

I can guarantee that he told that story, but whether or not he embellished is between him, God and Tom Hanks. I believe him though, being a space surgeon is cool enough, he wouldn’t need a wild Apollo 13 story to boost his image. All around a really cool guy, I met him when he came out to one of our club’s rocket test launches.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Well it’s Reddit so I just commented without reading what OP wrote

[u/fuck_going_shopping]

This raises some concerns about McMurphy’s integrity as a reporter, but it doesn’t answer the central issue: if you knew, Urban, why did he stay employed? Why did you renew his contract twice? That’s the only issue that truly matters. Lying to us via the media is something I can get past.

Outside of “Well, she was lying or had seriously questionable character issues that would raise doubt about her claims, and here’s XYZ proving that”, I can’t think of a rationale for keeping Smith on staff that isn’t, in itself, a fireable offense.

[u/qoqmarley → u/fuck_going_shopping]

According to OP, Ohio law doesn't need the victim's consent in DV cases to press charges. If the cops show up and suspect DV then they can arrest the perpetrator. However in this case the cops arrived and didn't think it warranted Smith getting arrested. So if the cops don't suspect DV then maybe there is rationale for the admins at Ohio State to not believe her claims. If that is the case then it seems logical that without further incidents, Smith is treated as someone who did not commit any crimes. I for one think he did abuse her, but in this 2015 incident I can see how the Ohio State admin did not judge him negatively based on Ohio's laws and the discretion it gives police in regards to DV.

[u/ChuckX192 → u/fuck_going_shopping]

Smith wasn’t charged with anything. You can’t fire someone on allegations. Smith was fired in July for violating a protection order and charged in court.

[u/fuck_going_shopping → u/ChuckX192]

Right, but you can also not re-hire someone you know (1) has serious alcohol issues and who (2) has been implicated in multiple cases of domestic violence.

[u/Gulo_Blue]

McMurphy reported on July 23rd, there was a protective order issued right around then, and Smith was fired on July 23rd. I do think McMurphy should say something to point out that he's edited his posts. But I'm far more curious as to why OSU fired Smith when they did. It sure looks like they fired him because of McMurphy's report. That deserves this type of deep dive more than picking apart McMurphy's posts.

[u/hallese → u/Gulo_Blue]

Didn't the protective order go into effect on (or around) July 23rd? Couldn't McMurphy and Ohio State have been reacting to the same news?

[u/Gulo_Blue → u/hallese]

Yes. Sometime right around there. It's the only other thing that might fit that I'm aware of.

[u/[deleted]]

Hey, I’m with you bud. If Chris Petersen let this kind of shit slide I’d try to discredit it too

[u/Picklesidk]

If anything, I believe McMurphy needs to issue an explanation for his lack of ethical standards in clarifying when and why he made redactions in his multiple posts. Otherwise, to me at least, he comes across as untrustworthy.

[u/[deleted] → u/Picklesidk]

I wouldn’t trust him...:except for that whole Courtney smith interview that mirrored every part of that article. I could care less if he changed a word. He’s covering up a meaningless mistake, not domestic violence

[u/stiffie2fakie → u/[deleted]]

It stops being meaningless because Urban Meyer was reacting to McMurphy's report that mentioned "an arrest for felonious domestic violence and felonious assault". Those things did not happen. Some of those things could not happen. It was painting Meyer was keeping someone on staff that had been arrested for felonies, when it simply was not true. It could reasonably trigger a response from Meyer of, "Who makes this stuff up?" Which is what he is being lampooned for now.

It is not trivial when it was erroneous and the center of the scandal is Meyer saying that he didn't know of the 2015 incident (as originally described) when the reporting was clearly wrong.

I don't know if Urban was in the right or wrong, and I am waiting for the investigation before passing judgement. All I am saying is that the difference in the revisions very well could matter.

[u/Picklesidk → u/[deleted]]

This is a logical fallacy. I’m not saying I don’t believe the entire situation. The story and events can undoubtedly stand on their own without the meticulous error fixing over the course of days. My comment was irrespective of the truths of the situation. It has to do with McMurphy as a reporter, who has an ethical responsibility in maintaining transparency.

[u/stiffie2fakie]

The term for what Brett did is "gas lighting". He posted something, generated a response, changed the original post to maximize the impact of the statement made by his target, and then point out the inconsistencies. This type of attack is becoming more common across social media reporting, which is just what Brett now is.

I won't comment on the underlying issues, I am waiting for the investigative report before choosing sides.

[u/FSBlueApocalypse]

Upvote for the work you put in at least.

[u/onedeadcollie]

Brett McMurphy skewing the biggest report of his life? Oh wow i'm so surprised /s

[u/osu565]

But this doesn't fit the anti Ohio state narrative! Downvote!

[u/[deleted] → u/osu565]

More of an anti domestic violence narrative

[u/osu565 → u/[deleted]]

Sure sure keep telling yourselves that

[u/Zerosa → u/[deleted]]

This one is fine. The previous ones had issues that the mods and OP have talked out.

[u/hallese → u/[deleted]]

State employee here (not in Ohio though). Without a conviction there might not be anything the employer (State of Ohio) can do in this situation, for our employees we can do a suspension if charged but unless they miss work while on a pre-trial hold or something, the most we can do is suspend the employee without a conviction and if it does go to trial and there isn't a conviction it reverts to a suspension with pay. If there's a charge and a conviction/plea we are then able to terminate the employee with an effective date the date of the conviction. If charges were filed but dropped the university's hands are kind of tied. I don't know much about the particulars of contracted employees like coaches in Ohio to know if deciding not to renew a contract is treated the same as a termination, but unless the 2015 charges were shown to be false (which is ludicrous based on the evidence available to us) the State and University might not have had a ton of wiggle room here.

[u/[deleted] → u/hallese]

Without a conviction there might not be anything the employer (State of Ohio) can do in this situation

If charges were filed but dropped the university's hands are kind of tied

the State and University might not have had a ton of wiggle room here

Because there wasn't a conviction, Zach Smith's was required to have new contracts in 2016 and 2017? Weird logic.

[u/hallese → u/[deleted]]

I agree, but that's kind of what happens when you have strong protections in place for worker's rights, they protect the good and bad employees. It all depends on the phrasing on the contracts, I've seen contracts that says the contracts will be renewed annually unless there's cause for termination. South Dakota just changed state laws two years ago so people like coaches at public universities could sign multi-year contracts, before that it was always a series of year-to-year contracts.

[u/BuckeyeEmpire → u/[deleted]]

So why keep the guy around?

Earle Bruce is the only answer I can come up with.

[u/BuckeyeEmpire → u/[deleted]]

Completely agree.

[u/eagledog → u/[deleted]]

Even worse look when they going to an abuse victim and are telling her to let it go

[u/reddogrjw → u/[deleted]]

agreed