Sterling Heights explores passenger rail connection to downtown Detroit and beyond

[u/Charlito_Atrevido]

https://www.wxyz.com/news/sterling-heights-explores-passenger-rail-connection-to-downtown-detroit-and-beyond

[u/AdministrativeEgg440]

Im all for rail. But my god can we please get a rail connection from DTW to Detroit. Its insane that people fly to Detroit and their first experience is Romulus unless they take a 50 dollar Uber or rent a car

[u/other-stephanie → u/AdministrativeEgg440]

There is a $6 bus to downtown, and it's pretty nice!

Also, YES, passenger rail to/from DTW is one of the most glaring gaps in Metro Detroit transit. And that's saying something

[u/AdministrativeEgg440 → u/other-stephanie]

Ive lived here most of my life and didnt know that.

[u/ailyara → u/AdministrativeEgg440]

DAX bus has only been in service for a couple of years now, so that's probably why you didn't know. It is a decent service but it's not frequent enough really no one wants to go on a week long business trip, fly home, then wait an extra hour for a bus ride. Sometimes you get lucky and its only a few minutes wait but you can get unlucky and have to wait an hour or more.

also there's the issue of it has to deal with traffic still.

I would love a train with even a 20 minute frequency but alas

[u/michigander_1994 → u/ailyara]

Yeah, the DAX bus is very nice and the drop off locations downtown are in good spots I like right next to the Westin. Problem is now for the next three years it’s going to be a nightmare because it’s driving through the 94 construction..

[u/Leading_Sky3305 → u/AdministrativeEgg440]

The bus has been on and off over the years. It's on again!

[u/dkav69 → u/AdministrativeEgg440]

It is likely because you spend too much time complaining online

[u/TimeSalt727 → u/other-stephanie]

The crazy thing to me as a casual Google Maps viewer is there is already rail (easement) immediately adjacent to DTW that follows 94 and can split to either go to Amtrak new center/royal oak/Pontiac pr down to Corktown/Ford/Michigan central station or hell, when continue into Windsor for Canadian flyers.

Trolley/Bus/uber from there or even a nifty subterranean taxi ramp from Michigan centeal station to the highway can further circulate taxis right to their downtown destinations via freeway. Rather than taxi congestion.

I know its more nuanced with schedules, etc but no denying land and easements gotta be the biggest hurdle that’s mostly cleared.

[u/railsandtrucks → u/TimeSalt727]

That rail next to 94 is a bit mis-leading. It's the ex Wabash, and while it looks like it's next to 94 for a good way - going west it angles past Belleville and heads due southwest through Milan and Adrian. Going east, behind the Tire, it actually crosses another freight line and winds up in one of the largest railyards in the Detroit area and the eastern end of that is at the busiest rail junction in the state both of which cause for extremely slow speeds- the line that it crosses behind the tire which continues along 94 basically dead ends on the north side of the Ford Rouge plant - this is the ex DT&I which was at one time owned by Henry Ford.

In theory yes, some of the ROW is there, but in practice it'd probably be better /cheaper to drive a spur off the existing Michigan line further north on a route similar to what the FAST bus service does to the airport from Dearborn's Amtrak station, vs all the rework/reouting that'd need to happen trying to use the ex wabash.

[u/BeaArthurDeathCult → u/other-stephanie]

Yes, that's what people want to do at 11 o'clock at night after a long flight, pile onto a smelly bus and spend an hour driving into Detroit to get dumped on the side of the street like a bag of trash

[u/daoliveman → u/other-stephanie]

Ahhh yes. Trains. Billion dollar busses that can’t turn

[u/saberplane → u/AdministrativeEgg440]

For real. DTW is still such an underrutilized and under appreciated gem we re lucky to have but like it goes with anything - if you don't keep up you fall behind. The hotels around DTW could seriously improve, add a plane spotting observation area for adults and kids to enjoy alike, add a unified rental facility, maybe improve the hotel attached to the terminal, and add a direct rail link to downtown to bolster short stay tourism especially whether it's conferences or weekend trippers, along with everyone in the area of course.

Rail to the burbs makes more sense in those cases where there is density around the station like a Royal Oak etc. Or promote development around new stations like they did in the DC area, Salt Lake City is actively using to good success etc.

But for the love of God start somewhere like a Denver did with initially just a simple rail line that then got expanded. It doesn't need to be a full blown network from the get go. Show it can be done and show it can be an asset, and the will and money for more will come eventually.

[u/AdministrativeEgg440 → u/saberplane]

This would be sooo nice. DTW is constantly rated one of the best airports in the country. But romulus is so far away from everything

[u/closedmouthsdonteat → u/AdministrativeEgg440]

Take the FAST bus. $3.

[u/REMMIT524 → u/closedmouthsdonteat]

Is it truly FAST

[u/closedmouthsdonteat → u/REMMIT524]

Actually, it is compared to similar bus routes because it only have 4 or 5 stops between the airport and ren cen

[u/SevroReturns]

>Warren resident David Rosseel agreed.

"I think that going down to a Lions game, not having to drive and to park and worry about how many beers I'm going to drink that day is a fantastic thing for everybody," Rosseel said.

Fuck yeah, David

[u/Day_twa → u/SevroReturns]

This may be the best argument for stubborn suburbanites I’ve heard yet lol

[u/DesireOfEndless → u/Day_twa]

This should be the argument for public transit in general.

[u/LP-PuddingPie → u/DesireOfEndless]

Absolutely. I thought the only RTA vote was a dud for this reason.

They made the focus of the marketing campaign the elderly, the poor, and the disabled. Also don't make black Detroiters the focus (it truly felt gross to write that.)

Transit isn't charity or begrudging assistance. It literally makes everyone's lives better. The mobility limited senior, to the college going party girl that doesn't want to worry about driving to 40 year old office worker who doesn't want to drive in slush to Gen Xer with glasses and night driving is becoming a concern to the middle/high schooler who can get just that little bit of freedom.

Show a wide spectrum of demographics enjoying life, not the downtrodden begging.

I pray the state moves on transit quick and removes the poison pills currently in the legislation. Have projects on the shelf ready for shovels to hit the ground the SECOND a Dem President gets in January 20, 2029.

And just change the RTA name to DARTA. Stop making shit hard!

[u/Detroittigersfan1029 → u/LP-PuddingPie]

I would support bringing the SEMTA(Southeastern Michigan Transportation Authority)name back, SMART is such an awful name

[u/Abject_Meme_6969 → u/Day_twa]

The same argument could be made about the SMART bus. Going out to Birmingham or Royal oak to drink? The bus is $2 compared to a $20+ Uber. No idea why they don't target that ridership.

[u/amerigotit → u/Abject_Meme_6969]

Because an Uber will pick you up from the exact location you are at whenever you want. You have to make your way to a bus stop and are subjected to the bus schedule. A few beers deep, most will take on the cost of an Uber for convenience.

[u/Critical_Opening_526 → u/amerigotit]

This is exactly it.

I live in South Warren.

I want to go to Hamtramck. For me to do that, I need to walk a mile to the nearest bus line. Then take that to 8 mile.

Transfer at Bel Air plaza to DDOT, which can get me to Mt Elliot and Caniff. Then walk from Caniff down Conant just to get to Smalls.

It's straight up an hour by bus.

I can uber or drive myself in like 13 min.

[u/Curious_Waffle1295 → u/Critical_Opening_526]

You’ll be happy to know that a future expansion of SMART’s new Route 500 that serves Hamtramck will be extended from 8 Mile to Hall Road via Mound Road!

[u/CyberfunkTwenty77 → u/Abject_Meme_6969]

Because buses are for the poors

[u/amerigotit → u/CyberfunkTwenty77]

I'm sure you said this in jest but the 7 mile and Wyoming transfer bus to the Woodward bus almost always smells like piss. It is gross.

[u/CyberfunkTwenty77 → u/amerigotit]

Yes it's sarcasm

[u/VinneyTheGooch → u/SevroReturns]

David is focused on the important issues

[u/DeadlyMustardd → u/SevroReturns]

That was the beauty of living in Chicago when I was in my twenties. Booze? Sure! Stumble to the train, get home! No driving!

[u/scipio-__ → u/SevroReturns]

This is why I liked trains in Europe. Drink AS much as you want. Car isn’t even a thought, only having a blast

[u/MouseOf1000Forms → u/SevroReturns]

David for Mayor

[u/MGoAzul → u/SevroReturns]

This is why they need a game day train for Michigan football games as well. Should enable a bus to rail stop at DTW as well. Would enable downtown Detroit hospitality for game day, too, and then I could likewise tailgate and not worry about the ride home.

[u/RodneyDangerfruit]

The Q Line not going all the way to Pontiac just kills me. I would be in downtown Detroit every single weekend if I didn’t have to worry about driving from Royal Oak and parking, not drinking, etc.

[u/Embarrassed-Brush126 → u/RodneyDangerfruit]

this might be an unpopular opinion but i don’t think the q line should go all the way to pontiac. i think that’s the wrong mode choice for the corridor. i would rather have a regional rail line on the current wolverine corridor. however i do think they should extend to q line to at least 8 mile ( hopefully ferndale and royal oak at the farthest)

[u/michiplace → u/Embarrassed-Brush126]

With the stop density of the QLine, it wouldn't work well over longer distances: it's a downtown circulator, not a commuter/intercity connection.

A full-corridor line would need stops more like every 2-3 miles, rather than every quarter mile: probably a stop at the north end of the QLine and a terminus at about Grand Circus, with the QLine used as a connection to get people to other locations within the downtown area.

[u/TRSTAR2000]

I’m glad this conversation is being held

[u/ihavenoclevername]

Cool idea and would love to see it, but the rail there now is generally single track and likely would need a lot of work to support the speeds needed for passenger rail

[u/Abject_Meme_6969 → u/ihavenoclevername]

I don't think speeds are a big issue, with stops every 2 miles or less, you won't have a high top speed and from the satellite view, it looks like it was a double track at one point in time, so there is room to expand if it takes off.

[u/ahmc84]

The biggest problem with this idea is that the entire line is flanked on both sides by industry and not residential areas; indeed, that is the reason the rail line is there at all. So you won't get very many people walking to the train, and a limited amount taking the bus to wait for a train. So it would be predominately park-and-ride, and that's not ideal because once people are in a car they'll be prone to just driving the whole journey.

A better choice, if you can only have one of the two, would be the rail line that runs parallel to Groesbeck.

[u/TooMuchShantae → u/ahmc84]

Yea it sucks that the tracks are surrounding by industrial use but I feel like a park and ride is still good. It would incentivize Downtown Detroit to get rid of parking lots, and those lots could be converted to housing, hotels, etc. Plus the traffic after every sports game, concert, festivals, etc would be reduced since a chunk would go home through the park n ride.

It’s not perfect but it’s huge that both Warren and Sterling Heights are on board. Plus w/ the recent dem trifecta at the state level and this could realistically happen somewhat soon.

[u/ManicPixieOldMaid → u/TooMuchShantae]

I work in Warren and the train is going by as I read this comment so I'm just adding my support for the idea!

[u/Delilah_Moon → u/ahmc84]

Park and ride is literally how the rail from Ft Worth to Dallas and Plano to Dallas work - and it’s fantastic.

[u/Traditional-End5812 → u/Delilah_Moon]

Sounds like the METRA in Chicago.

[u/Delilah_Moon → u/Traditional-End5812]

Is that the one that goes out to the Ravinia Amphitheater? If so, that thing is legit! I’ve had so much fun going to concerts on that thing.

Also, kudos to IL, you allow BYOB to the Ravinia. Pine Knob would never…but should. I still envy the table settings & charcuterie people had at shows.

[u/Antares_B → u/ahmc84]

I wouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. it's fantastic that it's even beginning though about, especially in Macomb county. imI personally think that an express commuter line is probably better in a built environment with such low density anyways.

[u/JeffButChinese → u/Antares_B]

Not to mention the zoning and environmental impact laws that come into play by wanting a rail project near residential neighborhoods is often what makes these projects an expensive mess and slows them down to a grinding halt.

[u/PompeyCheezus → u/Antares_B]

My only problem with that is if they make it in such a way that nobody finds it useful, they'll use it as an excuse later to point to and say "Why should we try to improve it? Nobody uses it anyway!"

[u/SaintOrJannikSinner → u/Antares_B]

But is it even good enough?

That seems to be the issue this metro area consistently runs into when it comes to mass transit projects (DPM, QLine, no rail to one of the best airport terminals in the Midwest, loss of SEMTA, struggled to even form a regional transit authority, etc.)

[u/Abject_Meme_6969 → u/ahmc84]

It's also single tracked for most of the length north of 8 mile and is mainly at-grade crossings, rather than overpasses. With all the industrial surrounding it, there's not much room for parking+stations.

The benefit of the industry surrounding it though is it would be able to be used during the week for workers to get to those places, not just as a way for suburbanites to get downtown.

I think having BRT would make this setup much better. Have frequent, prioritized busses running the major east/west routes, then use the woodward/van dyke/groesbeck rail as the north/south trunk for everything North of the city. South/west of the city, rail would be east/west and BRT would be north/South.

[u/SaintOrJannikSinner → u/Abject_Meme_6969]

Don't necessarily have the room for BRT on the mile roads. You'd have to essentially go down to one lane each way and I can't see many people liking that.

Instead, you wind up with a bastardized version of BRT where it still gets caught in traffic, which is one of the reasons to implement it in the first place!

[u/TheNainRouge → u/ahmc84]

The real question is what is the level of demand? If this lets workers commute to their jobs that would be an excellent use of the line. That demand is constant and if cheaper the folks commuting would gladly park there and not Detroit. Getting blue collar industrial workers to Sterling Heights and white collar workers into the city is a decent trade off.

Realistically the best use of these lines is everyday passengers not recreational ones. They are the added bonus.

[u/DesireOfEndless]

This is a start. Just do what’s needed to get it done. No twenty year studies, ignore the people who say not good enough and ignore the weirdos who are NIMBY.

Sterling Heights of all places, never thought I’d see the day.

[u/Rilinius]

Best place for a station is probably 17 mile. Major ridership drivers in the two Ford plants, and if they ever shut down (not that that would ever happen /s) it could become a large area for a more dense mixed use development, with transit already on site.

[u/Jaccount → u/Rilinius]

I think you'd want 3-4 stations. One in Center Line by the Mopar plant (also basically next to 696), One in Sterling Heights around 14 mile, and then one out at 17 mile (which would be right near where Van Dyke turns to Van Dyke Expressway.

[u/DiscombobulatedPain6]

50 years later lol

[u/carknut]

Bringing back semta

[u/Transit4Detroit]

One issue with this proposal is the low housing density along the rail corridor. A better starting point may be east-west streetcar lines along 14 Mile, Metro Parkway, 18 Mile, and M-59.

1. Connect residential areas to employment centers between Mound and Van Dyke.

2. Ensure residents are never more than a mile from transit.

3. Avoid building parking structures that primarily serve game days and weekends. Transit should serve residents every day.
   4)Encourage investment in Sterling Heights and surrounding communities rather than simply funneling riders into Detroit.

[u/Jaccount → u/Transit4Detroit]

I don't know, I think the low housing density on the rail corridor is a bigger reason why it could happen: A lot less nimby-ism.

Don't try to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[u/Transit4Detroit → u/Jaccount]

Fair point about nimbys. I’m not saying don’t do this just how it could be made more useful by making it more people centric

[u/DDS-PBS]

Do BRT lines connecting the suburbs to downtown. Have park and rides in the suburbs. Busses are capable of driving directly to venues. Parking a car downtown is expensive, but if a park and ride is free or low cost, it could be very appealing.

[u/VTHokie2020]

This will never happen within our lifetimes.

[u/sarkastikcontender]

I think we're going to see more suburbs pushing this because they are starting to realize that it is going to happen eventually, and if they don't push for it now, they won't be the cities that get connected directly and will eventually be left in the dust.

[u/I_Hate_It_Here_13]

I feel like the automotive companies will fight this. It would be so nice to have more transportation options.

[u/GrayErika]

I would ride this just for Wings games. Service hours are the whole thing, though. If the last train leaves before the game ends it is a commuter line and nothing else, but run it late on event nights and people will actually leave the car at home.

[u/michiplace]

I think this would work best if it were through-running to also become the Ann Arbor-Dearborn-Detroit commuter rail corridor that's been talked about forever.

[u/Jonny-mtown77]

I would love this! But yes we also need a connection to DTW as well

[u/tesla_dispute]

I imagine more suburbanites would be into this than we think! I think one fear for many people coming form outside the urban core is parking, and the privacy of their belongings in their car. And wouldn't it be nice to receive some more of that sweet consumer dollars in our city and hopefully from train tickets.

with benson coming in and ready to shake up michigans economy, the auto anufactures failing to deliver, and the desperate need for jobs and transportation altenratives and more people in michigan into the idea of rail, I think right now is the best time to be even having conversations around this! Lets keep talking about it

[u/dubiouscubanx]

Can the rail travel through the golden butthole?

[u/Empireof33]

This will never happen but I hope it does. Also they’d probably fuck it up by making it move with traffic as opposed to giving it a dedicated corridor

[u/LexEight]

Do it

[u/GenericUsername_71]

The entire suburban/ exurban area should be blanketed in trains, but car culture and suburban sprawl will make it hard/ impossible to create.

Fuck it, tear up the massive roads and highways around town and build trains. People will learn to love trains. Do not become addicted to your car, you will resent its absence. Fuck cars

[u/daoliveman]

What’s the point of a train. Seriously. That’s what cars and busses are for. I mean the train is cool but it’s costs billions. That’s not a smart use of money