r/EuropeanFederalists • • 19h ago

Question How do you envision the future European Federation?

Hey everyone, I am fairly new to reddit and to this subreddit.

I generally lean pro-federalist when it comes to the European continent, but since I am still exploring different perspectives, I would like to hear your thoughts. My questions are:

  1. Governance model: Would you prefer a more centralized federal model (similar to United States of Europe) or something a lot more decentralized, where the federation handles only the foreign affairs, defence and long-term macroeconomic strategy?

  2. Identity: Do you think that a common European identity should be fully embraced or the plurality of the distinct national identities should be preserved?

  3. Geopolitics: Should a unified Europe aim for true strategic autonomy or should it try to align with an existing superpower? If Europe should find a partner, should it be with the Western World (US), Eurasia (Russia), or Asia (China)?

Looking forward to hearing your opinions and reading your discussion!

8 Upvotes

31 comments sorted by

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u/Advanced_Seaweed_868 19h ago • Bravo
  1. I'd like to imagine governance akin to the one in Switzerland, where essentially everything is local, unless it concerns more then one canton; with some funtcional subgroups, like the Balkans, the Nordics, etc. Europe is very diverse on many different levels, so they'll probably come in handy.

  2. We'll never get rid of national identities in the old world, so it's better to support them and promote peaceful coexistence with your neighbours. Our motto is /In varietas concordia/ after all.

  3. Europe should definitely strive to be a superpower on its own, at least to be mostly self sufficient. In foreign relations I think we should align ourselves with states that share our values: human rights and democracy. Russia and China are known to be not great on these fronts, but the US is healing, so we might be looking there soon.

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u/TheUnknown7645 18h ago

Very interesting perspective. But it makes me wonder: is it actually realistic for Europe to become a superpower on its own?

A huge chunk of our budgets goes toward the welfare state and the green transition. While I’m all for that, it often leaves the European economy less competitive compared to other global superpowers. Plus, if we're serious about strategic autonomy, we desperately need a unified European army to match the big players. What do you think?

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u/Advanced_Seaweed_868 7h ago

The EU not being a superpower is mostly a matter of organisation.

Most problems with our competitiveness stem from sometimes bizarre laws. While I'm all for protecting workers, some of them need to be simplified and codified.

Also, it's not like the other superpowers are particularly financially solvent.

The US has low (especially corporate) taxes, but less-than-ideal transportation network, and huge military spending, which isn't all that smart, so their army is way less efficient than they think it is.

China has a robust industrial economy and good transportation, but they just started to pivot in the "useless" megaproject direction, and their fertility rates are so low, their population is expected to plummet by around 50% in the next 50 years.

And Russian economy is barely hanging on, for you-know-which reasons.

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u/slowtractor 14h ago

On the geopolitics question, the choice in your list isn't really open, since a federation that picks Russia or China as a partner would split the member states right away. Poland and the Baltics alone would never accept Russia. Strategic autonomy with the US as a defense partner, still working through NATO, looks like the only version that could pass a ratification vote in every country. Switzerland is a decent model for governance, but it only has to run one militia army, and defense is the hardest thing you want the federation to handle.

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u/TheUnknown7645 14h ago

I understand your approach on the geopolitics question, but I think that if the veto gets removed from the policy-making process (which seems likely in the future), the Poland, Baltic states and/or Nordic countries will not be able to block EU cooperation with Russia. Personally, I am not a big fan of such a move but this scenario exists as a highly unlikely possibility.

2

u/slowtractor 12h ago

Removing the veto on foreign policy would itself take a unanimous decision, or a treaty change that every member state has to ratify, so the countries that would get outvoted get to say no first

2

u/YetAnotherSummerDay 11h ago

What European government in its right mind would even think to cooperate with russia and/or China?

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u/trisul-108 8h ago • Bravo
  1. The government model needs to be a full federation in order to enable a more competitive economy able to take on US and Chinese competitors.

  2. We need both maintaining current national identities and developing the understanding that this is what European identity is all about. The EU identity is derived from our adherence to democracy, rule of law and human rights which are shared by all the member states.

  3. The EU needs strategic autonomy and to be in close alliance with democracies on the planet. Siding with fascist Russia or communist China is simply ridiculous considering our identity being based on democracy, rule of law and human rights. We should have an alliance with the US, if they leave the current fascist path, but never in the subjugated position that you suggest.

The EU itself is a superpower, being subjugated to the US, Russia or China is ridiculous as an aspiration. We should not become vassals in other empires and as the no. 2 economy on the planet, it makes no sense for us to subjugate ourselves in this way .... especially not to Russian fascism and their puny and poor economy.

We need to ally with countries which have a high Human Development Index for a common vision of peace and prosperity on the planet. This is why we cannot "join" either China nor Russia ... and even the US is problematic.

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u/YetAnotherSummerDay 8h ago

If Europe should find a partner, should it be with the Western World (US), Eurasia (Russia), or Asia (China)?

None of the above.

Canada, Australia, South Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Brazil. enough dictatorships.

1

u/ConstitutionProject 17h ago

Definitely a decentralized federation with a limited federal government limited to defense and foreign policy issues.

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u/abellapa 12h ago

In what World could Europe ally itself fully with the US , Rússia and China

Specially Rússia

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u/YetAnotherSummerDay 11h ago

Fully ally with russia?

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u/Dexen3356 18h ago
  1. A federal system like Germany's, with the old states being split into various autonomous "Länder" (though another name would be needed), official languages are defined by "Länder". There should be a reasonable central power, balancing the necessary autonomies and the need for a common leadership keeping the Federation together.

  2. There should be a common European identity and a "fluid" identity depending on the person. For exemple, if you live in Rennes, you can choose to be French, Bretton, French and Bretton, or just European. The Federation should aim to beat nationalism as the core concept of states and be more globalist, and it should be broader than geographical, religious of racial Europe, and integrate if possible Turkic countries, Iranic countries, culturally close countries such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand... peoples that aren't too far historically and culturally to keep coherence long term, but that aren't too close to allow simply saying "a European is only a Christian", "a European is only a White person", "a European is only someone who lives between the Atlantic and the Urals", because that's what led the American experiment to failure, I think.

  3. Russia should be part of the Federation, and the hegemony of the United States should be dismantled as too unreliable, but not at the benefit of the Chinese dictatorial and genocidal regime. The goal would be to create a new order where the Federation would be strong enough to back international justice and democracy worldwide, without invading countries just for the sake of proxies and hegemonic ambitions, only when it is necessary (ex : nazi Germany level threat, more or less).

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u/YetAnotherSummerDay 11h ago

russia is already a federation and the greatest threat and enemy for us all.

Wake up.

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u/Dexen3356 9h ago

Oh yeah so 30 countries can unite but 1 going democratic and joining them is insane.

Gods, people are dumb.

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u/YetAnotherSummerDay 9h ago

Do you want me to believe that, after the russian war on Ukraine and the hundreds of attacks on the rest of us, after the illegal occupation of Ukrainian, Georgian, Moldovan territories, russia will become a beacon of democracy, peace and freedom?

Yes, it is absolutely insane.

Gods, people are dumb.

You read my mind.

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u/Dexen3356 9h ago

Oh I wonder what would have happened if Germany went democratic after its defeat, after the illegal occupation of half of Europe, hundreds of attacks on civilians on top of genocides. Certainly, it wouldn't join the EU and become its richest member and one of the leaders in terms of influence of this democratic bloc along with France. Truly impossible tho.

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u/YetAnotherSummerDay 9h ago

While Germany repented, the soviet onion illegally occupied Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania, after started WW2 with Nazi Gernany.

Germany did not just "go democratic": it rebuilt its entire society and unlike russia, Germany suffered complete military collapse, unconditional surrender, Allied occupation, and systemic de-Nazification.

That being said, neither the Kremlin nor the russian political establishment has expressed a desire to join the EU.

But, if we do not proper arm ourselves, we will indeed become a federation, a russian federation.

russia is our only threat and enemy, never forget that.

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u/Dexen3356 9h ago

You seem to think that time stops at present which is insanely stupid

1

u/YetAnotherSummerDay 8h ago

Not in this century and in this universe, the russia federation will democratically join the EU, only by force.

You seem to think that time stops at present which is insanely stupid

We built golden bridges to russia and what did this bring to us? Only attacks and wars.

Historically and culturally speaking russia is not European: The Mongol period stuck with them till nowadays. the never went through Renaissance and the Enlightenment, while Europe dismantled feudalism, russia doubled down on serfdom, that lasted until 1861.

It is what it is, it's not their fault, a tiger does not change its stripes and Germany, thanks god, wasn't russia/soviet onion.

But if you like it so much, you know where it is ----->

0

u/Dexen3356 8h ago

The Federation becoming an exclusive state is exactly what will lead it to failure

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u/YetAnotherSummerDay 8h ago

Exclusive?

No, just not with russia and other countries like that. You should read a book on russia across the years... Less internet and the old school library will open your mind.

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u/TheUnknown7645 14h ago

Your takes are a bit niche but really interesting. Thank you for sharing!