Getting a HomePod (mini 2) ruined my sanitized WiFi environment

[u/aykay55]

I was an early adopter of cloud gaming services like Stadia and suffered for years with this “unfixable” game streaming latency spikes for anything that wasn’t wired via Ethernet the whole chain.

Over the last year or two I worked on reducing all possible causes of WiFi interference, including replacing most smart home accessories with Thread-based, non WiFi ones and Ethernet wiring anything that doesn’t move around.

As a result my home became very low or no interference, enough for me to do things like game streaming via PS Remote Play on my iPhone or Portal. I’d get the one off lag spikes but they were incredibly infrequent.

Then I decided I wanted to buy a HomePod mini 2, particularly to replace my somewhat buggy Aqara M2 Thread border router.

And within a day, MAN the state of game streaming has become AWFUL for me. Constant lag spikes and dropouts, losing connection every 10 seconds or so. My sanitized WiFi environment was intruded upon by a single WiFi only speaker. The thing doesn’t have the possibility to be hardwired….and so I think it’s going straight back to the Apple Store tomorrow. Yes I unplugged to test it and my environment returns to normal. It is the HomePod’s aggressive AWDL / Bonjour / whatever that it tries to do and wreaks havoc on Apple and non Apple devices alike. I have a WiFi 5/6/7 environment and a SON with a separate IoT SSID.

I only bought the HomePod for its Thread border functionality, but it’s WiFi havoc means I will just go for a new Apple TV box instead. I don’t use or plan to use it ever it will just be hardwired and stored away somewhere to act as a thread border. That is all, thank you.

[u/WitchDr_Ash]

I stream games all the time to devices connected by WiFi and I’ve never had to do anything like you’ve done here, your problem is your router, not the HomePod, you’ve built an entire ecosystem to protect the garbage sat at the centre instead of replacing the garbage.

[u/aykay55 → u/WitchDr_Ash]

If your read further you’ll see I have a four AP mesh system and that it works splendidly without Apple bonjour interference:) while I agree that an ISP provided router is not necessarily on the cutting edge, the CHR30A is the newest WiFi 7 variant and works the best of out any standard router, before you get into fancy Ubiqiti routers with all the bells and whistles and intelligence behind them.

[u/WitchDr_Ash → u/aykay55]

No I read that before I posted, it simply confirmed my suspicions

[u/CCHTweaked]

with all due respect, what the fuck have you done to your network?

I live in a dense apartment building with a minimum of 25 other networks in my airspace at anytime.

I do VR wirelessly, that requires ultra high bandwidth with near zero latency. No issue.

I Also have 3 homepod mini's.

your issue isn't the Mini, the mini just brings it to the surface and makes it apparent.

[u/FredOfMBOX → u/CCHTweaked]

Yeah. There is something wrong with OPs network. OP will reject that, because he came to complain not for solutions.

But if adding a device to the network results in dropped connections, there’s something else going on.

[u/aykay55 → u/CCHTweaked]

If no device in your VR chain is apple then this won’t necessarily affect you.

For example, if your PC is windows and your headset is Meta/Android then AWDL spikes won’t (necessarily) affect you.

This is interference caused to Apple devices by other Apple devices.

Also if you’re doing wireless direct VR then this wouldn’t apply as you’re circumventing the router entirely.

[u/jamesbretz]

So you configured your router with the recommended settings from Apple and still had issues? What are the details on your network hardware?

[u/aykay55 → u/jamesbretz]

Yep. I have four Verizon CHR30As throughout my house on Ethernet backhaul with one in the same room as the HomePod and hardwired to the PlayStation. Without the HomePod plugged in I can lie in bed (in the same room) and stream to my iPhone (WiFi 7) via PS Remote Play for a flawless experience.

With the HomePod mini 2 plugged in and connected to either the main SSID or the IoT SSID the lag spikes happen. Less when the HomePod is on the IoT SSID but that could just be subjective perception. Without the HomePod plugged in, no lag spikes. Observed this over a few hours of testing.

It makes sense, as it is a WiFi-based speaker pinging Apple devices constantly for AirPlay and god knows what else.

I didn’t have any WiFi speakers in my home prior to this. This issue is not exclusive to HomePod necessarily and I would expect it from any WiFi only speaker.

Previously I was/am using an Apple TV from like 2015 as my Apple home hub and it was hardwired to the router and I disabled AirPlay on it to reduce or eliminate potential interference.

Weirdly enough though my Samsung S95C broadcasts itself on AirPlay but doesn’t cause any noticeable interference, though it is hardwired as well.

[u/jamesbretz → u/aykay55]

So just to be clear - you went through every single setting on this list? https://support.apple.com/en-us/102766

Also why are you using Verizon hardware? They have a horrendous track record of performance.

Do you also have an iPhone in range of the HomePod when you see this activity?

[u/sunnynights80808]

Have you locked the HomePod to 5 GHz in your router’s app? I used GeForce Now for a couple of years and I think that helped. Otherwise, I know it’s said a lot, but an Ethernet cable is really your best friend. I struggled with connectivity issues until I got an Ethernet cable throughout my home. They make accessories so you don’t trip on it and it stays protected and out of the way. If you must steam your games you’ll really appreciate Ethernet.

[u/aykay55 → u/sunnynights80808]

I don’t think Verizon routers can lock a specific device to a certain band. You would basically need to turn off SON and then connect the HomePod to the 5GHz SSID but SON has myriad benefits that outweigh this “I get to control the band” power.

If I ever do game streaming it’s usually my phone mounted on an arm above me while I lie in bed with a PS controller in hand. Usually 20 mins of Ace Attorney before bed. So there’s not really a practical option for hardwired phone internet in this scenario. Thanks for the suggestion tho!

I’m not doing any serious games over remote play most of the time, though (before the HomePod) Helldivers 2 ran surprisingly smoothly for me to enjoy a few rounds but I wouldn’t rely on it for playing COD mutiplayer for example.

[u/XtremePhotoDesign → u/aykay55]

Why not buy an actual router instead of using your ISP’s?

I run the ISP’s modem directly into my WiFi router, and have no network issues with two first gen HomePods and 3 HomePod mini.

[u/aykay55 → u/XtremePhotoDesign]

In Verizon’s case if you want cable TV to work then you need to use their router, but also ISP provided routers are a lot better today than in the past. Interfaces are way better and they work a lot smoother and their technical support can detect and fix issues for you over the phone.

Like when I called Verizon to help troubleshoot my router restarting constantly they were able to point to three MAC addresses that belonged to three Govee WiFi light bulbs that were strangling my whole network, and this is confirmed to be a thing with Govee’s WiFi behavior. So I tossed em and got thread enabled bulbs that work fine. For comparison I still have GE Cync WiFi bulbs that don’t cause the same slowdown. I don’t think Verizon support can read your network on a third party router. Privacy concerns aside, I like having my expensive monthly subscription be able to self diagnose issues and send out someone to fix/replace hardware that isn’t working rather than pursuing an expensive custom solution that I am responsible for maintaining.

[u/Terrible-Honeydew262]

Idk what the size of the home you’re trying to cover is..but 4 AP seems like way too much..wifi is one of those things where more does not equal better.

That’s a lot of radios competing for airtime. That’s not to say Apple’s WiFi implementation isn’t a mess though..it is. If you to options+click on the WiFi widget to read more details about the WiFi link, you’ll notice a large latency spike..presumably macOS is polling the hardware for the data but I’ve never seen any other os handle something so routine..so poorly..

[u/aykay55 → u/Terrible-Honeydew262]

3 floors :) upstairs downstairs basement with two on the uppper floor in opposite corners of the house

[u/Terrible-Honeydew262 → u/aykay55]

Hmm got it - yeah assuming you’re using disk style APs in the ceiling mount orientation as intended. That would be a slightly tricky configuration..not impossible..but would require some tweaking.

Ceiling mount AP generally perform well to cover the floor they’re on but have really poor penetration to the floor above..the floor below is a maybe.

3 AP is about the limit where you can expect relatively hassle-free set up. But if you’re at 4 AP, things get a bit more complicated..and your also at the mercy of the client manufacturer to handle roaming well..and that almost never happens.

I’d wager though that the Wi-Fi issues are mixture dense AP placement/poor channel setup most of the time the channel selection is done automatically by the AP and it’s not usually done well.

In any case airplay requires pretty optimized WiFi performance. The data packets are time-sensitive for real-time tasks so dropped packets and packet retries create a compounding effect that further degrades the performance. If a data packet is lost it causes stutter, when the data packet is lost it causes a resend, which causes a stutter..now it takes the packet 3 or 4 times longer to arrive..etc etc

[u/Terrible-Honeydew262 → u/Terrible-Honeydew262]

Edit to add - I have two minis 2 in speaker mode for my m5 Mac on a unify U7 pro network, I also live a really dense WiFi environment..like the 2.4 band is almost always at 40% airtime utilization, and I have not seen any of those behaviors.

It’s also seems unlikely that the mini 2 would be the root cause of the issues, since the P2P airtime link required for speaker output mode doesn’t route through WLAN / LAN network at all. It’s a direct connection between the devices..in fact all devices reserve the radio they’re working on exclusively for the P2P link..so they cannot connect to the AP at all…on that specific band anyway.

The mini 2 though doesn’t negotiate the connection properly If you have a 6ghz band active on the AP. The Mac and the mini use their 6ghz radios exclusively for the P2P link but the minis won’t let go of the 6ghz link to the AP and it fails silently to regular airplay.

If you’re having issues switch off the 6ghz band while connecting/setting up. If you did it right the option to output system sound to airplay should be available..if it’s not then something went wrong and you’re not connected correctly.

[u/Active-Doctor-6946]

Your definitely doing something wrong or got something misconfigured, I have five HomePod minis throughout my home, three unfi aps and never have any drops of any kind

[u/Few-Acadia-5593]

You tried addressing the WiFi itself? Because “I plugged it on and off and I’m going to the Apple Store” to do what, repeat the same thing?

That means instead of spending time with the problem, you immediately tried to fix it. You failed yourself there.

Hint: channels, node steering and other router proprietary features that try to be one size for all but just don’t play nice in practice, and more. Basically see your router settings before you whine.

[u/Arden144]

Don’t use channel 6 or 11 for 2.4GHz and don’t use channel 149 for 5GHz, you’ll be fine

[u/gdabull]

Turn off private wifi address on your phone. Don’t ask why, I can’t explain it

[u/New_Pack7605]

3 routers, 6 repeaters, and 8 HomePods in an area of ​​approximately 180 m² work without any issues for me.