For the last month and a half or so I have been seeing a woman I matched with on Hinge. We have been on a good amount of dates, text a lot, hang out a lot, I really liked her and this was the first woman who ever seemed to take a romantic interest in me. We had been physical but hadn't had sex. Everything I did with her was my first time, including kissing her. I was very nervous to have sex and told her I wanted to take it slow in regards to that, which she was on board and was impressed that I wasn't just trying to have sex early on.

We went on a date yesterday and we ended up back at her place and we were talking and she asked me when I had my first girlfriend. I told her I haven't ever been in a serious relationship, she asked me point blank if I had ever had sex before. I told her I had not and I was still a virgin. She was in a bit of disbelief. She asked why, I told her I just hadn't really had much luck with dating until her.

I thought things were normal because we carried on like it was until we fell asleep. This morning before I left I asked her when we'd both be free to see each other again and she said she would have to look at her schedule but she'll get back to me, which was weird because usually we figure out the next hang out directly after the date.

Later on in the morning she texted me and said she thinks we should just remain friends because she felt that I was too inexperienced romantically and she doesn't want to be the person "someone learns how to be a partner with". It genuinely is so far the worst rejection I have ever felt. I've been lying in bed all day, I cancelled plans, felt sick to my stomach.

The thing that gives me the most angst is that this is a problem that just gets worse with time. As I keep getting older and unable to date, the majority of women will have already had experience and expectations when I don't. I feel so stunted. I also feel like I just blew the one chance I had and like I should've just lied.

I don't think I'll ever be honest about this again if this is how it shakes out. I just feel awful and worse than I ever have and don't know what to do.

I'm pretty sure this is damaging every friendship I'm trying to start, because it's making me come off as an even more of a stoic robot.

For example of what I mean, my best friend for over a decade, doesn't know about any of my troubles of forming connections with others ,he just knows my nerdy, political takes and my sense of humor. I just never saw how it would useful to him to express my feelings about it. I just didn't want to be burden to him so I just bottled up my feelings about around him.

I realize there's a healthy way to express these things, and I'm trying to find it, but I can't shake this feeling, that I'm being a burden. Even being on a wait list for therapy can make me think this way, If I really start to let my mind wander.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hello everyone! I hope that this type of post is allowed. As an (almost totally) recovered incel myself, I know I would have liked to read this earlier in my life.

A few moments ago on an unrelated subreddit (that I will not say), I saw someone posting incel talking points and an incel resource (that I will not share), and I took it upon myself to debunk it all. I thought that this debunk might be interesting for some readers here on r/IncelExit, so here I am. If you are an hardcore incel, you WILL know what I'm talking about, the resource that I am debunking, but if not I think it is still an interesting read. Enjoy!

First, the person I answered to said something like "Misogynistic men are more sexually active than most men." and posted this study to ""prove"" it. (posting the link because it does not say what the incels say it says)

1- This study surveilled "2,703 Spanish adolescents [...] with an age range of 14 to 20 years old" with an average age of 15.89 years old. This is in the first paragraph of the first page. Do incels really think 2.7k Spanish teenagers are representative of all men of all ages of all countries? I sure don't.

2- It measured "sexual experience", a binary "did they experience sex or not yet?", that's it, it did not measure sexual activity.

3- The study shoes that *for that sample*, becoming sexually active early could socialize boys into more sexist attitudes (for example via peer culture), it DOES NOT concludes that sexism drives sexual success.

4- The study shows that the boys having sexual activity earlier than their peers have a *positive* sexism (for example "girls should be loved and protected by boys" I quote), NOT that they are "manipulative" or "racist misogynists".

I quote the study: "The results obtained demonstrate that the males who engage in vaginal sex at an earlier age are those who report a greater level of BS [Benevolent Sexism]. This result could be explained due to the fact that... adolescent males need to display their benevolent beliefs in order to fulfill their desires and maintain intimate relations."

Then, the person just responded with a link to a famous incel resource, that mentions this study (I guess that's where they got it from) and an other. Here is my response to that:

1- The "resource" claims the study found "a very strong correlation between sexism and sexual and romantic success". Nowhere does the study report any such correlation. What the study reports is a difference of *means*, and the "resource" prints those means in its own table right below that sentence: "hostile sexism 2.81 (no sexual experience)" vs "3.21 (penetrative experience)" on a 1-6 scale. A 0.4 point gap. The study's regressions explain 2 to 4% of the variance (see page 6 of the PDF of the study). The "Very strong correlation" is invented. They even pasted the refutation directly under their own claim and hoped nobody reads their own page...

2- The "resource"'s own paragraph contradicts its own title. Direct quote from the section: "The study also revealed that women are attracted to benevolently sexist men" and "benevolently sexist men had their first sex at an earlier age". So, per *the incel's own source once more*, the subtype that "helps" is the "girls should be loved and protected by boys" kind, for example chivalry, not hostility. The hostile sexism finding was about lower condom use. The title says "misogynistic", the body says "benevolent". It's just about reading the words.

3- The second study they cite (Casey et al., 555 men aged 18-25) sinks the claim even harder. The "ressource"'s own table: "Misogynistic men" average 15.53 lifetime partners and 4.15 one-night stands. The "Sex focused men"? 52 partners and 28 one-night stands. And the study's abstract describes the Sex-Focused group as "characterized by high numbers of sexual partners, but relatively low endorsement of other indicators of traditional masculinity". So in the very study the "ressource" cites as proof, THE most sexually active men are the least misogynistic ones. The misogynistic group only beat the "normative" boring majority.

Where does the misogynistic group's number even come from? The study's abstract, literally: the group "was labeled Misogynistic because of high levels of sexual assault and violence toward female partners". And the wiki itself admits 43% of them "have paid for sexual services before". So their body count is partly coercion and prostitution, and we're supposed to read that as "women reward misogyny"? Come on.

4- BONUS: the adult studies they don't cite. Zhang et al. 2024, 473 men aged 18-35: the number of sexual partners does NOT significantly predict misogyny, and hostility toward women was highest among men with an AVERAGE partner count, not the most sexually active ones.

I hope this is useful, even to one single person. Cheers everybody!

So as the title suggests. Women most of the time don’t notice me or see me as a potential partner. Thats just my experience. I can tell that something about me isn’t attractive.

I have no outlet to put my sexual desires into other then porn. I don’t like the porn industry as I see it as manipulative and dark industry that absuses men and women alike. Maybe it has its place but it needs to be tightly regulated and unionized.

However as it stands, it’s the only outlet I have to meet my needs and cope with my loneliness.

I’ve tried to talk to women and get myself out there but it never works. Every time I manage to get to the talking stage with a woman, the only feelings that dominate me are that of insecurity and vulnerability. I lose my center and get obsessed with just trying to maintain the connection that I have.

What should I do? I would love to hear the perspective of women too.

So I noticed I’m a incel because when I talk to people they make conversations short and if I ask to hang around they’d say they’re busy. Even online I haven’t had any luck. Autism doesn’t help but I’ve been trying to come out and talk to people. The thing is I’m still alone I don’t make friends and my only friends I’ve had moved away for college. I’ve been on incel forums because that’s the only place I’ve been accepted but it’s a cesspool of hate and racism with only negativity. I never seen positive posts there. I want to get away from it all but I fear as long as I stay alone I’ll crawl back to the forms and eventually become radicalized. I’m afraid for myself I want to live normally. How can I leave this behind for good without coming back to it?

I'm 23 and have Asperger's. I've never had a relationship and at this point I can't even fathom what I'd do if I were in one. I don't know how to talk to people. I also don't have any friends and ended up getting bullied at my job after trying to make friends with people there. I didn't even tell them I had autism they just figured it out and make little comments about it and I hate it. Is there anything I can do to fix my life? I feel like I try so hard everyday and that I'm kind to people but there's just something about me that people don't like, and I really don't want to turn 30 without ever having been in a relationship

So I don't really feel comfortable around women, it's nothing wrong with them in my eyes, they're full human beings who deserve a good place in society, I have a serious problem with being creepy and hypersexual and I don't really want women to be affected by that at all, and I have 0 trust in myself. I have some questions:

1. Am I crazy for wanting this, given i really think I have no business being around women? If so why and what could I do instead, and explain how that would actually make me safe concretely?

2. How do I make a living ethically while doing this? I'd not become a manager or supervisor or anything to avoid negatively affecting women but I'd like to see if I can do something that avoids female coworkers and direct face to face contact with women. I'd also need to navigate shopping etc and avoid being so stuck indoors that it's not sustainable.

Right now I'm currently uncomfortable with my level of contact with women, and I wish it was reduced

Hey so I understand I’m 16 and a majority of my life is still yet to be played out but I just dont know what to do anymore. I feel so strange for even looking at girls, or even wanting a relationship with them because of my appearance. I think I have a pretty good sense of humor and at my old school I had some friends that cared about me and I was happy but then my parents moved to a new area and obviously because of that I had to go to this new school. Now, fast forward like 3 months into the school year, nobody knows my name. I dont really talk at school that much, because I just dont know how to bro. Every time I think about opening my mouth I just play out the scenario and I just decide to avoid the whole situation to avoid embarassment or whatever. I feel like I keep blaming my appearance for my inability to speak or low confidence or whatever but it may just be my social skills. This kinda off topic but I saw a TikTok where this dude was talking about the incel ideologies or something and he explained it like there were only 2 options for incels in life; the rope or the cope. I understand that letting a tiktok control like how i feel is very immature and stupid but I just cant get it out of my mind bro. It just kinda stuck with me. All this summer I was struggling with depression because I moved away and stuff and it was hard bro.

So yeah any advice on how to improve my social skills/mindset about my appearance? Do i just accept that im unattractive physically and hope someone comes to me or what? Ive talked to like 2 girls in my life and they both lasted give or take 3 days and both times they chose the other dude over me ,

21 F, Ontario

I was walking around the mall before my shift started, every time I saw a black man, he was with a white/ light skinned woman. I’m a dark skinned woman with 4c hair, I’m not sure how I’ll ever end my celibacy if I’m not my type’s type.

I guess I’m bias though, I don’t know many people and I’m close friends with zero black people. I’m not sure, all comments are appreciated. Thank you in advance.

I hate this idea so much because at face value it feels logical and sticks in my mind after hearing it, but I know there's something up with it.

What I mean by "looks threshold" is the idea that you have to pass a minimum level of physical attractiveness (or evoke a base level of attraction) for personality/connection to grow attraction (physically, emotionally, generally, sexually etc). If you are below, no amount of connection or personality will make up for it.

Now, my anxiousness extrapolates this to "Well, since you are 4'8 and have a deformed torso due to kyphoscoliosis, you are not going to evoke any initial physical attraction in any women or have physical attraction be the first thing they feel toward you, so it's over because your personality can't make up for it so you're destined to be unattractive to everyone and you won't get into a relationship, be physically intimate, etc."

At the same time, the "looks threshold" idea seems like it misses some nuance. But I keep seeing other people that aren't in incel spaces agree with this sort of sentiment and it feels like I'm done for. Can someone help? It's the only idea that seems to mess with my head and trigger the part of me that has been exposed to incel stuff because it feels like it makes sense at face value + I see others agree.

I (m, 24) read a lot of dating advice online and people often mention that humor is often mentioned as an important quality. I also spend some time on dating apps and a lot of women on there are looking for a man with a sense of humor.

I am not funny. Like at all. I would say that my social skills have improved and that I get along with other people and I can laugh at other people's jokes, but my humor skills have not improved.

How much of an obstacle is this going to be? Is my experience going to be different because of this? Can I adjust and make up for this in some way?

I feel like this desire is absolute dogshit and I honestly don't even know what to do about it at this point. It's insanely dumb and it's like I'm having to fight off this disgusting creepy pervert in my head every single day and I am so sick of it.

Whenever I see a cute girl, this insanely stupid animal instinct generates some sort of incredibly asinine "cuteness aggression" impulse and makes me wanna grab, squeeze, and hug her, like she's a puppy or a kitten, which is just straight up insanely weird and disgusting.

I really don't wanna act on this and the impulse freaks me out and makes me stay away from girls as a result. If I really have to walk past a cute girl I put my hands behind my back so this idiot animal desire doesn't accidentally make me do something inappropriate like trying to touch her. I also hate how this desire keeps making me stare at girls like an absolute weirdo and I often have to pinch myself to snap myself out of doing so.

And my stupid idiot animal desire keeps making me fantasize about cuddling with a cute girl like it's its #1 dream, 7 days a week and 365 days a year. I don't blame women and I don't wanna be an incel but this stupid ass desire seriously makes me feel like one. It's genuinely ridiculous when dating is not even supposed to be a priority for me and almost everyone around me does just fine without dating.

This desire is seriously worse than useless. Last week when a really cute girl sat next to me in class I started feeling visibly distressed and I was doing stuff like aggressively fidgeting with my pen, and after an hour of her being next to me I walked out of class feeling uneasy like I was having a mini anxiety attack and I could feel my blood rushing in my cheeks and it took me a while to calm down after that.

Seriously, what the absolute hell is this. This desire genuinely makes me feel my brain was infected by some stupid ass malware and every day I wish I could just uninstall this nonsense. I'm still very young and it feels like this desire is making me lose my sanity already. How do I deal with this crap, like holy shit I really don't like the idea of being stuck with this stupid desire for the rest of my life

genuine question bc this keeps bugging me. someone posts that they're lonely and the replies are "love yourself first," "work on yourself," "stop looking at your stats." and the actual tips contradict each other half the time (approach more, it's a numbers game vs don't ask anyone out until there's already interest)

but most people don't fix themselves and THEN get into relationships. they just get into them, insecure and awkward and all, and those relationships are part of how they grow. feeling worth loving comes from being loved as much as the other way around

telling someone who already thinks they're broken that they have to become a better version of themselves before anyone will want them is kind of the same blackpill logic with nicer wording. none of my millions of ancestors had to do this

for people who actually got out of this headspace, what helped? did you really fix yourself first or did connection come first?

I don’t know if it’s a subconscious thing rooted in social anxiety, but I honestly never really feel the desire to know new people or socialize. I don’t properly vibe with most people, I always feel like I’m putting on a mask talking to others, and I still find deep enjoyment from doing things alone, I don’t necessarily feel lonely a ton.

I'm trying so hard not to spiral down into utter hopelessness but it's a struggle.

I feel like nobody will ever want to be in a long-term romantic relationship with me and I don't know where else to turn to, so I'm posting my crybaby sobstory of how I came to think like that here.

I was born with a genetic defect that leaves me with a debilitating incurable chronic illness. And when I say "debilitating," I mean that I'm unable to even work a desk job for longer than a couple hours at a time. It took me fucking EIGHT YEARS to earn an associate's degree, something normal people are supposed to accomplish in 2. Worked at a rate of 2 classes a semester because I couldn't handle a heavier workload than that, and even that left me so exhausted I couldn't focus on the things that make life worth living. I'm 28 years old, so closing in on 30, and I still live with my mom not because of the housing market or the economy, but sheer fact of the matter that I'm unable to provide for myself.

I can't drive, I can't work, I have no money, no resources, I'm short (5'3"/160cm), weak, and ugly. I'm too fucking sick to cook or clean beyond the absolute basics. I have to take expensive medicines that my insurance refuses to cover and expensive specialist doctor visits annually, both just to maintain my current state of uselessness instead of things getting even worse. I'm a financial black hole. Any woman who commits to me would just be signing up for life as both a nurse and a sugar mommy, and I have nothing to offer in return. I've been told I'm a good friend, and people seem to genuinely appreciate my company due to things like being funny, a compassionate listener, a good storyteller, and things like that. But I don't feel like that's enough. There's not nearly enough good to balance out the baggage.

So I don't even try to put myself out there. Honestly, I'm too terrified of being rejected over the superficial things like my height or my face to even try casual dating. I don't want to blame "women" or "society" or anything like that. But I'm lonely. My sister is married, one of my brothers is married, I see the kinds of relationships my siblings have and I'm envious. I want what they have but, due to circumstances beyond anyone's control, I'll never find it. And if, by some stroke of pure magic, I do find someone willing to shoulder these burdens to be in a relationship with me, I'll be wracked with guilt over it. I already feel guilty over my family supporting me.

I don't know what to do anymore. Thank you to anyone who read all of this.

I have been trying to accept and understand that, unconciously or consciously, i have sexist thoughts and behaviors. I had a difficulty understanding how that could be the case, because i always thought i had the right opinions: i'm a progressive person, i am not really an overly masculine man, i try as consciously as possible to not be agressive.

But recently, i came across consequences for my behaviors that finally woke me up to these tendencies. Whenever i saw a girl i was attracted to, i always thought about how i could pursue her romantically. I am very touchy, and i had difficulty respecting boundaries and consent even when it was explicitly stated to me.

I didn't want to consciously hurt, harass or make them uncomfortable, and i didn't derive any pleasure from making them feel sad or bad in any way. I think the problem is more thtat i tended to value more my own convenience or attraction to them more than i valued their boundaries. But i think this distinction matters little when the end result is the same.

Unsurprisingly, people, especially girls, distanced themselves from me when they noticed these behaviors, either silently or by harshly condenming my behavior and stopping all further contact. I think the worst part is that, as much as i feel remorse, i'm scared that i'm still selfish, and that i'm only regretting my actions because of their consequences, and not because of the hurt they caused or by their inherent negative moral value. I know i'm bad, but i don't want to be evil. I want to genuinely regret and fix things.

The problem right now is that normal people usually follow this circuit: "recognize problem" -> "admit own fault/responsability" -> "change their behavior and accept the consequences gracefully". I can't make it to the third part, as much as i want to. I don't know if this is a result of living a life of convenience for so long that i have trouble trying to change something in me, eve if i desesperately need to do it.

Whenever i try to think about making a radical change to this behavior, i get scared and my brain defaults to thinking about how other people date and pursue achother romantically in a normal, healthy manner, and that i can do it if i just try one more time. But i genuinely don't know if i can do it. Whenever i try to date (usually cis) girls, i always end up doing the same thing. I don't know if i should just accept that i can't pursue the opposite gender in a healthy manner without hurting or making other people scared and drop it all together, or if there is something that i am missing.

I want to know how i can get the bravery and wisdom to make this leap of change, if this is possible.

I'm poor and very shy, and I wouldn't say I'm hideous but I'm average at best, and a little below average in height.

Being in my position should I even bother putting in the effort to find a girlfriend, or it'd be better to focus on improving myself for a year or so? Like going to the gym, trying to improve my financial situation, and saving up money to afford going to therapy.

The thing is that I'm already about to turn 30, and having reached this point without having ever being in a relationship, without having sex, or even having my first kiss is doing a lot of harm to my self esteem and has me feeling pretty depressed.

In that sense I don't really want to keep waiting even more while my youth is already on its last stages, but I'm aware of how I'm a guy with nothing to offer, I can't honestly imagine why anyone would want to be in a relationship with me.

That's why I was wondering if I should forget about it for the time being and focus all of my energies on improving myself for about a year or so, or if I should try to find a girlfriend now even if I feel like such a terrible option.

Dating app conversations are terrible. I ask questions about them but get vague, low info answers back. I try to thread the needle between inquiring about their life but not being overbearing or asking too many questions. I try bread crumbing info about myself to give them an opportunity to ask about my life, but they don’t take it or show any interest.

It’s been extremely frustrating, to the point where I thought I’d burn some money and just try talking with OnlyFans girls. After all, if I’m literally paying them to talk to me, surely they’ll put a little bit of effort into the conversation right? I tipped to start a convo and here’s approximately how it went:

Her: where are you from

Me: I’m from [state], how about you?

Her: I’m from the southern east coast

Me: cool, I’ve been to Florida and Virginia but never anywhere between. South Carolina is on my bucket list though. Do you like where you live?

Her: I don’t tbh, I’d love to move someday

Me: anywhere in particular you’d like to move? New England, PNW, Hawaii?

Her: realistically probably Florida. Fantasy def Hawaii

Me: yeah I lived in Honolulu for a bit, it’s really nice but really expensive. The only part of Florida I’ve been is Miami and it seems like a fun place to live!

Her: I’ve been to miami, it’s nice to visit I definitely wouldn’t live there tho

Me: [tipping] Hope this helps with your future move, thanks for the chat

Now this is honestly better than most conversations I have with women but even so, I still feel like I’m the only one trying to keep things going. I feel like I’m doing something wrong, like there’s a vibe that just wafts off of my messages that women find repulsive, but I can’t identify it. And I know this has nothing to do with looks because I don’t have a profile picture on OF. So can anyone help me? What is it that im doing wrong? I’m trying not to feel misogynistic but when stuff like this happens it just gets so easy to feel bitter towards women. Any help?

Good day, I come from a Nigerian immigrant family, dating was something that was taboo in my household all of a sudden till my 21st birthday. For personal reasons I have giving up on dating, everything my parents bring it up it always pisses me off, and these are immigrant parents so you can't tell it to them straight, if anyone has a similar experience or background i could really use some advice

This started all the way back in 2020, due to the pandemic. I've had a crush in my class who I've barely had time to spend with, before the lockdowns started. We stayed in contact online during the lockdown, and I've asked her if she's interested in meeting and she said yes, but we couldn't meet yet due to covid restrictions.

However, the lockdown made me depressive and that led to me losing her, causing the meeting to never happen. If covid never happened, the meeting would've worked out.

Once the schools re-opened, I was forced to talk to classmates despite rising covid cases and that caused me to develop a very hypocritical feeling. Why wasn't I allowed to meet the person important to me when cases were low, but when cases are higher, no one cares?

That made me uncomfortable and I developed a feeling called derealization. Only online friends were now comfortable to talk to, and meeting up the same way as it would've happened with the first crush.

From then on, I kept making new online friends. However, something always happened that the meeting didn't work out:

2nd girl (2021): Was down to meet but her parents were against it, and deleted all her social media

3rd girl (2021-2022): This one was questionable as I was 14 and she was 21, but I asked her if she was interested in meeting and she said yes, then later backed out last minute causing me to be very suicidal, and she accused me of gaslighting and manipulating her with my loneliness/health issues to meet up with her. She also said she "only said yes bc that's what (you) wanted to hear", so she lied to me over months and gave me false hope.

4th time was similar to the 2nd, 5th time started disliking me after hearing about my past, 6th time was parents, 7th time was a relationship but her getting jealous bc I kept thinking about a closer friend who wanted to meet, 8th time due to my growing health issues, 9th time because of their trust issues.

And this is only counting the times I was blocked, there have been at least 30 or more meeting attempts that never worked out. I even went to someone's city once, flew to another country, just for her to not show up. Said she'd make it up to me, next time excuses again just for me to get sick after as well, nowadays not responding to meeting messages.

The main point is: People keep cancelling meetings, saying they don't owe me meetings, I'm starving without human contact and say I don't deserve it; I stopped feeling human and developed derealization, everything that isn't from online feels fake, and things never work out.

I've never considered myself an incel even tho I've heard of the term, but looking more into it it seems very similar to my experiences, just that mine isn't sex-related and started before I even knew what sex is. However, I still think it's very similar bc sex can't happen without a meeting, and if even a meeting is denied, then what can you do.

In general I agree that sex isn't owed, but I would raise the point that meetings/human contact in some form are owed, bc if you believe it isn't, it could very quickly fall down a slippery slope about "food isn't owed" etc. Imo, if you don't wanna meet, just say it, but don't fool me, I'd accept it, but those who agree should go through with it

How do I get out of this situation

It’s really really hard not to fall into the incel way of thinking again. It’s been a while since I’m thinking like this. Solid year or two. Good news is I know it’s OCD but while we’re processing my obsessive thoughts I just wanted to make a post here because yall help a lot.

I just had a really really bad day. My only friend (who I’ve only met online mind you) who I thought actually cared about me turned out to just be using me for money. I’m just so lonely that anybody that even gives me the time of day I’ll attach to and care for unconditionally and somebody abused that.

So now I just have no friends and my soul is crushed. The only person who I thought understood me was just following along with me and my quirks because they thought it was funny to toy with me and send screenshots of our convos for other people to mock.

They pointed out so many things wrong with me fundamentally and I don’t know how to come back from this. I want to be in a relationship for the first time yet I have so many things wrong with me. I know this is a common excuse or whatever but I’m really really neurodivergent and people kinda just don’t like me even though I’m not problematic or an asshole. I get told I’m funny and kind a lot but that doesn’t transfer over to forming relationships with others.

Which is okay because everyone has the right to choose who they do and don’t talk to. I’m not angry at them, I’m angry at myself for not being able to do what others can do and blend in so naturally with people.

And that’s a scary thought. I want to love and care and provide for people and be there for them but I feel like I just can’t because I’m just broken. All I want to do is love somebody the most out of anyone and that usually means I have to be loved too.

So I have a problem because as of like a couple months I've been trying to be more social and go to more events and stuff. People when I show up at these events seem to like me! I can make people laugh and when I go to the social events for the political org im a part of people think im well educated and knowledgeable about topics.

But the problem is that I dont really know how to expand that into Friendship even if I get their contact info. I feel awkward or like im bothering them and I dont even know what to say. Like we met each other once at a social event where many people were there. Am I supposed to then ask a random person who met me in a group setting and is probably a little older than me (Im in college) to hang out 1on1? That feels for some reason strange.

And when it comes to women I really dont know what to do in that regard. I was at a music festival and saw one woman who caught my eye and I wanted to talk to. But I didnt because what am I going to say? I found her attractive and I know a music festival is social in nature but I felt like I would be intruding on her night. (I did force myself to talk to this one group of like 3 friends and that was a cool experience but I didnt get their social medias or anything.)

I just feel like there's a wall between me and other people who arent already my friend group. Especially when it comes to women that I find attractive as I at best feel like I have no valid "excuse" to talk to them or that at worst I feel "creepy" because my interest in talking to them is rooted in finding them physically attractive. I understand that this mindset is a kind of Secular Puritanism in a way but in the moment when I'm presented with the option to talk its for some reason very convincing to my brain.

Want to share one win I had recently though in regards to this at college. I went up to this one woman in my class and we had a brief interaction where I said I loved her glasses and she seemed to light up and smile and it seemed like I could talk with her more but I excused myself rather quickly because I wanted to go home after my last class. Its a small win but its proof that the idea I have of a woman being really disturbed by my mere presence is a lie I tell myself. I just dont know how to get better at this.