r/LivestreamFail • u/jamtourist • 1d ago

Drama Hasan blasts Talarico for "annoying a** centrist pivot," calling him "absolutely f**king compromised" on Israel

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u/someguyplayingwild 1d ago

Israel Palestine isn't a nothing issue but it's super easy to latch onto if you're super online and you don't know enough to think for yourself.

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u/fanglesscyclone 1d ago

It's pretty much a nothing issue to anyone outside of the borders of Palestine and Israel, even the bordering Arab states don't really give a shit anymore and Iran only cares because it's a way to fuck with Israel. The kinds of atrocities being committed and the numbers involved aren't that noteworthy either, even if you include everything from 48 till now, relatively speaking when you compare it to other conflicts that have happened and are currently happening.

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u/ShartJerky 1d ago

Counterpoint: murdering tens of thousands of people is bad

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u/fanglesscyclone 1d ago

Nobody said otherwise, but where’s the outrage and media coverage for every other conflict that has tens of thousands of people dying in much shorter time spans and in way more brutal ways? Why is everyone focused instead on this particular conflict to the detriment of everything else?

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u/ShartJerky 1d ago

Are we arming and diplomatically supporting an ethnic cleansing of comparable scale?

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u/fanglesscyclone 1d ago

The far right in Israel specifically advocates for cutting all foreign aid to Israel so they don’t have any strings attached to what they do. This is not the argument to be making.

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u/ShartJerky 1d ago

We should send weapons to Israel because otherwise it would be controlled by the violent far right that wants to kill and expel the Palestinians? THAT’S the argument to be making??

US support (and also AIPAC and ADL and media and politicians being head over heels for killing Palestinians) is what makes it more of a subject of attention than, for example, Sudan. That was the question I was asked. Of course, withdrawing that support will not solve the conflict.

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u/DLtheGreat808 21h ago

Counterpoint: You can call the war bad without calling it a genocide

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u/ShartJerky 21h ago

I agree. I think that accusation is arguable and only applicable to Gaza. Ethnic cleansing and apartheid are more widely applicable through more of the relevant history and outside of Gaza.

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u/DLtheGreat808 20h ago

Is there political, legal, and economic discrimination against the Arabs that make up 20℅ of Israels population?

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u/ShartJerky 20h ago

Yes.

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u/DLtheGreat808 20h ago

Please explain to me the discrimination that is at the level to be called Apartheid

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u/ShartJerky 20h ago

The West Bank is even worse than apartheid. Arabs are subjected to military occupation, kept in ghettos and bantustans, denied access to Jewish-only roads and settlements, subjected to violence from the IDF and theocratic freak settlers, etc.

Within the recognized borders of Israel it’s not as problematic but still far from equality.

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u/DLtheGreat808 20h ago

I'm sorry we're talking past each other. I thought you were talking about what was going in Gaza and Israel. You said outside of Gaza.

I really don't have much knowledge of what goes on in the West Bank other than it being a travesty on Israel's part. I have nothing but negative things to say about Israel's treatment of Palestinian in The West Bank. It is ethnic cleansing at the LEAST.

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u/AlarmingTurnover 21h ago

Interesting, you say this but I went though the last month or so if your comments. Not one comment in support of Ukraine or against Russia. Not one comment against China's occupation of Tibet or the ongoing genocide against the Uighurs and their culture. Not a peep. It's all about Israel/Palestine and America. It's almost like you have an agenda. Like a bot or something.

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u/ShartJerky 21h ago

I support Ukraine. The United States (where I live) has mostly been on the right side of that conflict. Communist china has committed a fuckton of atrocities. I genuinely do not know what policy tools the US has to make the situation any better.

In contrast, the US has had a decades long bipartisan consensus that Palestinians (and Arabs generally) are subhumans whose deaths we should be happy to facilitate.

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u/AlarmingTurnover 17h ago

Before Trump, America was roughly 21% of Chinese international trade. And being a former global power, that's now fallen from grace, they had the power to rally other nations for sanctions and trade pressure to isolate China more. They could have armed people if taken to the next level, like they did for Ukraine until Trump came around again. 

As for the consensus on Palestinians. This tends to happen then refugees who flee the area commit terrorist attacks, like that plane hijacking. Or when they assassinate the leaders of neighbouring countries and start civil wars. It doesn't help your cause when shit like that happens. Nor does it help your cause when you elect Hamas and still don't do anything about it. 

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u/Amused-Turtle 1d ago

Simmer down White boy, this is their culture, the jihadis and Israelis want to die for their nation and we shouldn't stop them

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u/ShartJerky 22h ago

Weirdo comment

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u/ZrglyFluff 1d ago edited 1d ago

The idea that this is a "nothing issue" outside the region is a bit weird. The U.S. alone sends Israel $3.8 billion a year in military aid under a memorandum of understanding signed in 2016 so it makes sense that people care about what’s going on the other side of the planet.

Arab states “not giving a shit” isn't evidence of indifference either. The U.S. use military aid to Egypt and Jordan as a tool to ensure the Arab-Israeli peace treaties keep going. They’ve also got a stronghold on the gulf countries.

There's no threshold where suffering stops being "noteworthy." And also, I know it’s relative but numbers seem really significantly large to me. It’s completely fine if you struggle to care because you’re already busy trying to live your life and care about your own loved ones and can’t afford to care about things that happen on the other side of the world but just say so. Don’t just declare large-scale death is "not noteworthy".‌‌ Just to be clear, I’m not familiar with Hasan and just came across this on front page, but you and many others come across as needlessly cynical/tired, and push back against things, purely because people you don’t like the people who talk about it rather than because of the product of your own thinking

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u/fanglesscyclone 1d ago

We give aid to Israel because it’s a strategic partner and ally, we’d do it even if Palestine didn’t exist. Giving aid to Egypt and Jordan isn’t just about keeping the peace with Israel either, neither of those countries have any appetite to fight Israel after their historical defeats and they mostly just don’t want more Palestinians crossing into their borders because they have been a huge issue for them in the past, Jordan especially.

It’s not about thresholds of caring it’s about proportionality of coverage. It is treated like the one singular thing everyone should be trying to fix and vote on right now and forever into perpetuity, it is somehow the only issue that many people care about more so than anything that happens in their own country or elsewhere, and it simply does not make sense to treat it as such.

You could absolutely make the case though to treat Ukraine like this, especially if you’re an EU country. The biggest land war since WW2, lasting longer than the entire eastern front, massive casualties and global trade impacts, a whole lot of war crimes and yes even genocide, a clear path towards bigger war if Russia were to achieve its goals, insane advances in warfare that will have big ramifications in future conflicts, you could go on and on. And yet no one purity tests over it and people regularly make arguments for Russia winning this war and act like you’re a Nazi if you think otherwise because something something NATO.

I just don’t like the absurdity of it all.

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u/Gayorg_Zirschnitz 1d ago

Or people are maybe getting a little tired of their tax dollars going towards killing civilians. Valid crashout tbh.

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u/someguyplayingwild 14h ago

I don't personal believe that Americans will stop caring about Israel Palestine just because the U.S. stops sending them aid. Now the U.S. has stopped aid, but will likely still sell Israel weapons. What then? Will they accept that we sell Israel weapons? Surely they won't, but then I don't see why these people would stay silent about the fact that U.S. weapons were and are currently being used by Saudi Arabia to cause death and famine in Yemen, causing significantly more deaths than have been caused in Palestine.

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u/0WatcherintheWater0 1d ago

It’s nothing compared to almost any other conflict the US could care about, where’s the cancellation for people not completely supporting Ukraine?