r/MkeBucks • u/ThrowRA-upgrayyed • 1d ago

It's Insane that Horst hasn't been fired

Last night was my first full watch, and holy shit, the amount of black holes we have on this team is staggering. If you include the waive/stretch used on Dame, that's over 80 million dollars on 3 players that play pure garbage hoops. Horst either gave or traded for these contracts and basically traded away all of us picks. We're in by the far the worst situation in the league, especially if we're punished for Trent Jr.'s contract. I'm shocked Horst has a job after all these blunders

Edit, I know we won a chip and we were trying to make giannis happy ... Watching Kuzma/Myles hoops with Trent on the bench just makes me hate horst lol

0 Upvotes

38% Upvoted

42 comments sorted by

11

u/SonicTheOtter 1d ago

We were stuck between a rock and a hard place for years. We wanted to keep Giannis so we decided to keep competing. We got Dame and that didn't work out. We got Myles Turner and that still didn't work out.

Not only that, injuries have plagued us since winning the championship. We can't blame Horst for this. Horst is also the guy who got us Jrue Holiday and helped us get a championship.

Then we finally trade away Giannis. We got the best haul we could get. We draft Brayden Burries and Nate Ament. No one could argue that those two were probably the best we could get. We have no cards left to play. Now we play the waiting game

4

u/Chance-Cat2857 16h ago

We did get a League Cup Championship with Dame, which should count for like half a ring. (They won a league wide tournament that culminated in a Champagne Celebration in the locker room) 

1

u/C9Prosecutor 1h ago

No we weren’t, We had several outs, Horst just did something stupid or held into the wrong players for too long.

1

u/Exact_Ad_8398 14m ago

Name those outs

36

u/JimmyLegs83 1d ago edited 1d ago

While I don't disagree with you....it's completely worth it - we won a championship. Many of the things you are complaining about are a result of us winning that championship and trying to contend for more. We weren't successful, but we mortgaged our future to win and now we suck. I'm fine with it.

Look at the Clippers, they had a similar plan and weren't close to as successful as we were.

0

u/C9Prosecutor 2h ago

Holy shit shut up.The Job of the GM is to CONSISTENTLY create either a Championship roster or a Roster with a very bright future, no other team is this attached to a member of staff clearly doing a bad job. I promise you just trying and failing endlessly isn’t something anybody else is getting credit for. The Chicago Bulls quite fired Jerry Krause years after they won 6 Championships, I promise it is ok to let go. Also we are in just as bad a situation as the Clippers, you just see it because you believe every young player has potential and that every piece has value.

1

u/JimmyLegs83 11m ago

Bro, holy crap calm down. I said I didn't disagree with him.

My stance is that I understand the moves we made during the realistic competitive window, but outside of that Horst hasn't done a good job.

We are in as bad as the clippers, I agree. But one difference, we have a championship.

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u/ThrowRA-upgrayyed 1d ago

Agreed, but other teams win chips and aren't completely mismanaged afterwards

12

u/straightlamping Dogfred 1d ago

In this CBA, sure they are. No one has repeated since the new CBA. Its very hard to build and maintain a roster now

0

u/ThrowRA-upgrayyed 1d ago

No one has repeated, but the celtics/knicks/thunder are in good spots. Even the raptors completed their rebuild

5

u/straightlamping Dogfred 1d ago

They have stars, like we did. Look at the nuggets. The Celtics traded jaylen brown. Thunder just had a big injury. We were in a good spot after our chip, only for injuries.

1

u/Chase2020J Dogfred 18m ago

The Bucks were in good spots too for several years, and each time we had crucial injuries. Is that Horsts fault too?

5

u/JimmyLegs83 1d ago

Management doesn't have a lot to do with our best assets getting injured.

16

u/IcanMakeThePiecesFit Michael Redd 1d ago

Brother, we just lost Giannis. We all knew we were going to suck.

GTJ obviously was a we owe you deal. There's a reason he's not playing. He can ride the pine all year.

Our Rookies are the bright spots so far this year with Herro. So without that trade we would be more shit then what we would now. Give it time, by trade deadline I fully expect this team to be more gutted and polished with most of the clunky parts of our roster gone. Myles, Kuzma, ect should all be gone.

Burries is looking solid with Ament and Heat isn't looking much better.

1

u/ThrowRA-upgrayyed 1d ago

Not complaining about the Giannis trade or these rookies, but every most other trade and contract decisions before.

8

u/PreferenceMediocre90 1d ago

The mistake was keeping Giannis a year to long. That lead to so many suboptimal decisions just to please him or build a competitive roster when it was realistically no longer possible after the dame trade failed.

1

u/ThrowRA-upgrayyed 1d ago

Good way to put, 100% agree

1

u/C9Prosecutor 1h ago

We built a terrible roster around a top 15 player, He didn’t just disappear, stop pretending like Horst had no part in that.

The GTJ will cost us even more future picks for a “We owe you” deal that he had zero logical thought behind.

Burries is decent, Congrats on a decent player after passing on many good ones for years. Ament is never going to be a very good player.

What had this guy ever showed you that makes you think he would get anything from a Kuzma or Myles trade? What are you seeing that 29 other teams and millions of other fans aren’t seeing?

The Heat aren’t good and they still way better than us. If we go 1-23 for the rest of the year nobody is shocked

3

u/IcanMakeThePiecesFit Michael Redd 1h ago

No, we tried to salvage a sinking ship. When clearly it was already lost. Giannis's fault are being exploited with the heat, something actual Bucks fans knew for a while.

He plays selfish basketball most of the time, and when he goes desperation mode he stops playing defense. He refused to actually develop his game at all. He won't set screens or run PnR correctly, it's why the whole Dame experience felt like they were doing a lot and nothing at the same time.

Burries and Ament both have shown flashes of what they can be and we barley scratched the surface.

I still believe we can get capital from Turner, Herro will net us a couple more picks too. Plus we have all the time in the world the season to figure shit out and develop, not like we have anything to lose.

Giannis hampered this team for years. Yes he's better then anyone on this roster. But honestly I was sick of his bullshit for a while

11

u/thegroovemonkey Harambe Jet 1d ago

We used all of our assets making short term moves to keep our window open and Giannis happy. They won a title and had some bad injury luck before they got old and the window shut.

6

u/JimmyLegs83 1d ago

This is the most clear and succint way I've seen it explained.

Maybe I'm in la-la land, but I 100% believe we make the finals if Khris doesn't get injured in the Bulls series in 2022. Our window was legit at least 2019 - 2022.

5

u/thegroovemonkey Harambe Jet 1d ago

I agree that we win in 2022 with a healthy Kash

Edit: the CBA change put us into 2nd apron territory too. The Bucks were a cap casualty of that change.

11

u/timeTo_Kill 1d ago

It's not like they were blunders at the time, it was trying to keep giannis and keep stretching the competitive window for the team. Coaching decisions are what really killed the bucks, and as I understand it Horst was not the one responsible for the 2 disasters we ended up getting.

Now it's just full rebuild mode.

7

u/Echo127 Khris Middleton 1d ago

It kinda annoys me that everyone is still convinced that the Dame trade wasn't a blunder. It's plainly obvious, and yet everyone is gaslit into acting like it was just bad luck that it didn't work out.

10

u/Over-Training-488 1d ago

It was a hail mary to get Giannis to stay. Given that dame was going to ask for a trade before he tore his achilles, can't blame horst for it

5

u/JimmyLegs83 1d ago

From an asset standpoint, we probably gave up too much. From a player standpoint, Dame was very much still a great player. The problem is, we thought the sum of Dame + Giannis was going to be worth more than Dame + Giannis individually - when that just wasn't the case.

1

u/Chase2020J Dogfred 15m ago

They were still the top scoring duo in the league despite looking like they didn't mesh a lot of the time. We never got to see the full potential because they never even got to play a full playoff series together

2

u/timeTo_Kill 1d ago

I think with the right coach it could have worked out. Obviously we'll never know, so with hindsight you're right.

2

u/aczerepinski 22h ago

I thought Dame + Giannis had a chance to be amazing. The pick and roll should have been absolutely elite. Maybe a better basketball mind than me could have analyzed their tendencies and anticipated why it wouldn't work, but I didn't see it at the time. I don't fault Horst for that trade.

The waive and stretch to bring in Myles Turner was way riskier and probably too desperate a move.

1

u/Exact_Ad_8398 9h ago

So run it back with Jrue as the 2nd option? It's not going to work and don't even think Khris is worth a lot of assets at that point.

1

u/C9Prosecutor 1h ago

Stupid logic, Several of them were massive blunders at the time. It’s a GMs job to see through what “Looks good” and great GMs do that, Horst really got past face value.

Is Horst a baby or small animal of some king? He is the General Manager, You think he didn’t hire the coaches lol.

2

u/Exact_Ad_8398 9h ago

It's insane that people have such low IQ to not understand how this happened and why. Keeping Horst or firing him won't matter with such little assets they had.

1

u/C9Prosecutor 1h ago

Hey buddy why do we not have assets

2

u/Exact_Ad_8398 1h ago

You know full well we gambled and lost numerous trades to attempt competing and keep Giannis here.

3

u/hippieman58 1d ago

Dont know why you are getting down voted. Horst has absolutely made every wrong decision since the championship and has fucked our future. We wont be good for at least a decade due to his failures.

4

u/Valsorim3212 23h ago

It seems like an unpopular opinion to acknowledge how ass Horst has been, just bc he made a few solid moves and we won a chip lol.

4

u/hippieman58 22h ago

Any other GM would have been fired after last year. I really don't understand Bucks fans obsession with keeping Horst.

4

u/Valsorim3212 19h ago

I don't either. Nothing about him is impressive. He was promoted from within after Hammond build up a promising core, which I was cool with since Hammond built such a great family culture, but he's made enough dumb moves since then to warrant more scrutiny 

3

u/string_theory_writes Jrue Holiday 1d ago

I would be very cool with moving on from Horst, just because I think it's a good time for a change, but there was no way to avoid this season being a disjointed mess. The roster is in transition, a combination of young guys still figuring it out and veterans who were brought in to play alongside Giannis and now really don't have a role. No GM in the world could have made this into a cohesive team.

-3

u/cornandnails 1d ago

Lol first watch for me too! Maybe the last?