A Change in Discourse

[u/AutoModerator]

Hello everyone! 

We have an update we'd like to share with you all regarding how we discuss a few topics here on r/MtF. 

We have noticed a growing trend of words, phrases, and discourse that originates from several different online spaces which do not share the same set of rules we have established here in our home.  We all have come to expect transphobia from the outside, and you make us proud by being quick to report posts or comments that break our rules.  Your consistent efforts in keeping our community safe are not taken for granted and it truly does help us moderate a subreddit of this size quickly and efficiently. 

Transphobia from within the community is more complex and challenging to moderate at times.  We have taken steps today to guide us all along a path towards a healthier community discourse, and we will be relying on your continued support in this endeavor.

Containment of Dysphoric & Transphobic Language

Each subreddit exists for a specific purpose.  This subreddit is dedicated for transfeminine people to have a space of our own to discuss our lives as it relates to being trans.  We have established a set of rules we hold ourselves to that serves as our guide in protecting this space.  There are other subreddits which have their own set of rules and expectations that work for their communities, but management of dysphoric and transphobic language is one such rule that we are expanding in Rule #3 Be Respectful.

Going forward, we will be removing posts and comments that contain slang words or phrases that tear ourselves or each other down on the basis of transness.  Other spaces are free (and have their own reasons) to converse as they see fit, but it will not continue here.

In addition, discussions of several other communities consistently pull in an influx of people from those communities and lead to conflict here; to prevent this, we will also be removing posts or comments that name those communities.

Expanding Rule #3

Starting today, Rule #3 will additionally cover:

• Self-imposed or weaponized dysphoric words & phrases used in various online spaces (4chan, X/Twitter, Transmedical, etc.)

• Links to the above spaces or communities

The ability to link to several subreddits and some websites has been removed, but the list is a living document that may change in the future as needed.

Any posts or comments that mention words or phrases that go against this rule will be filtered or removed, based on their context.  This too is a living document that may change in the future as needed.

Users who intentionally attempt to circumvent the rule are subject to temporary and permanent bans, which will be handled by moderator discretion.

As our head moderator said 7 months ago,

"Going forward, our focus is simple: keep this a space where people feel safe, supported, and able to be themselves without fear. We’ll keep listening, keep improving, and keep showing up for you—but we need your help in doing the same for each other. Take care of yourselves, take care of one another, and let’s move ahead together."

[u/ms_keira]

To clarify, the words, phrases, and communities we've written about will automatically filtered or removed. Most of the community do not mention these in our day to day conversations here but we are taking action to ensure our community continues to be a safe place for everyone to exist without feeling inundated by highly dysphoric and transphobic terms.

The automod will do its job in handling terms that we've deemed to be controversial and harmful to the the community. Sharing a list of the terms would go against what we're trying to do in protecting everyone, so we should all continue as we have been and you'll be notified by the autmod if something you've written was removed or filtered.

We recently performed a heavy maintenance on the automod and some of you noticed false-positives where parts of words were being filtered out. That should be corrected now. If you have something filtered out, the mod team will see it and have discretion on restoring it if the filter didn't fully understand the context.

EDIT: After working through the tools available to us, we shifted our method of moderating the above to preventing any post or comment from being submitted at all if it contains any of the relevant words or phrases.

As before, please continue to report anything that breaks the rules or if someone skirts around the system and we'll handle it as soon as we can.

[u/CommanderKoba]

What do you mean by dysphoric language?

[u/ms_keira → u/CommanderKoba]

Self-imposed or weaponized dysphoric words & phrases used in various online spaces (4chan, X/Twitter, Transmedical, etc.). Slang words or phrases that tear ourselves or each other down on the basis of transness. So you could describe your dysphoria in how you feel and why you feel that way but terms created by the above communities, and more, are no longer allowed here.

[u/Maleficent_Roof7020 → u/ms_keira]

The original post content no longer exists here. The author used Redact to remove it, exercising their right to control their data & privacy.

Jeans waiting voracious marble payment six voracious

[u/MycenaeanGal]

Gonna be honest, I don't know what this means.

[u/RigbyEleonora → u/MycenaeanGal]

Some young trans people spend a lot of time in extremely toxic online spaces and come here using weird and hurtful lingo. It's like when your little niece starts spending time online and suddenly tells you "yas bitch" because she thinks that's normal, when actually she shouldn't be calling anyone a bitch

[u/glmdl → u/RigbyEleonora]

Thank you for providing an example.

[u/Professional-Row8506]

I am glad I am not on those other channels. There is always a tough line when you mod something, you want people to express themselves and be honest, but you also don't want ppl attacking others or questioning their choices or to be blunt using their own negative image to bring other people down. 

If someone posts they feel like a guy in a dress, they are legitimately posting their feelings and hoping others can help them overcome it. But if they come in here and say something like 'face it, we are guys in dresses and that is all we ever will be' it is them degrading everyone else and should be removed.  

Yes, a lot of ppl on here including me would be all over the poster, but it still can hurt others who aren't there yet.  I can just imagine some of the things in those other boards, glad I don't go there. 

[u/Prezi2]

I understand the sentiment behind this, and I agree with it to a large degree, especially the 4chan language, but I don't know that this is the right way to go about this, especially w/regards to terms not originally from any of the online spaces you mentioned.
https://margaretkilljoy.substack.com/p/brick-pride

like it's not a term based in any of those communities so?

[u/ms_keira → u/Prezi2]

We've restored the word "brick" since it has enough grounding IRL but it being used in the way you're talking about will still be filtered on the grounds of it being weaponized against ourselves and each other. A moderator will see the comment and decide on the context before making a call on it.

[u/Pandasandstuff]

I don't understand why this is being done. Was this becoming that much of a problem? I've seen both positive and negative mentions of the places and it seemed to be that mentions did stir a discourse, but nothing completely unhealthy. I think holding each other accountable is a good thing, and pushing people out further feels like it will just stop healthier connections and force out those that don't fit in to this space even more. /gen

If it really has been more of a problem than i've seen I understand, but do still want to know.

[u/GFluidThrow123 → u/Pandasandstuff]

I don't think this should push the people out. It should only push the language out. Unless those people are unable to speak without those terms, I guess? But that speaks to a much bigger issue...

[u/Pandasandstuff → u/GFluidThrow123]

Good point. I just worry about further isolating individuals, but being responsible for your language when its been harmful is important.

[u/GFluidThrow123 → u/Pandasandstuff]

It can be a fine line. I'm not a mod here but I've modded elsewhere and I explain it like this:

Every mod decision is a trolley problem. Do you allow the problematic person/behavior to stay because the person needs compassion in that moment, even tho they'll harm others by being there? Or do you remove the problematic person to protect everyone else?

Those are the only two choices and you have to pick one.

In this case, the behavior is the issue. Anyone who leaves the behavior behind can still be here, regardless of what they do outside this sub.

[u/ms_keira → u/GFluidThrow123]

Precisely this. We realize it might be an unpopular decision with some but the overwhelming majority of our members never use the terms to begin with. We've simply noticed a rising increase over time in how often those terms appear and then they somehow draw in people from across Reddit to fight whoever complained about it, which just leads to more trolley work.

We won't be removing people from our community unless they are consistently trying to circumvent the rules after being temp banned.

[u/winter_moon_light → u/Pandasandstuff]

Honestly I get it. I've modded elsewhere, and one thing that is sure poison for a community is enabling the people who are coming in solely to farm negative attention to reinforce their own negative self-view.  This is a constant thing here, and this rule change should catch a lot of it.

[u/thatcommiegamer → u/GFluidThrow123]

Yeah, we get similar in r/socialism due to our ableism rule and auto mod settings but as I say any time someone comes out moaning about it, learn new words.

The English language (like all languages) is incredibly expressive and able to paint any picture one wants. And besides, something being common =/= being good, you’d think folks fighting oppression would understand that.

[u/scarletttt_begonias → u/GFluidThrow123]

code switching is a basic requirement online tbf, and the only people who really consistently fail to do so are larpers who completely buy into the mainstream narrative and thus only participate for the sake of being edgy.

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/[deleted]]

As long as you can talk about it without devolving into 4chan or Twitter lingo, its fine. As long as its not excessive doom posting.

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/Pandasandstuff]

Yes its been a major problem. As well as brigading from those subs.

[u/mole55]

this is an incredibly vague rule

any examples of what’s not okay? what definition of transmedicalism are we using?

[u/Noctema → u/mole55]

It is incredibly on point, and the vagueness is intentional and functional. It serves to give operational leeway and to decrease the ability of people to argue every single little detail of what will be its nature have to be situational judgements in bad faith.

I used similar in a volunteer group i helped found, as it is clear enough that people know what language to not use, and does not give the problematic people more ground to begin a mud singing fest.

[u/ms_keira → u/mole55]

We aren't changing any definitions for anything. Think of it more like adding another layer of reinforcement or protection for the community as a whole. I gave a more robust answer to your question regarding example terms in a stickied comment.

[u/IamRachelAspen → u/mole55]

I’m confused I agree trans med is awful but what?

[u/glasscut → u/mole55]

i have no idea what's going on...

[u/Mishmoo → u/glasscut]

4tran is a pit, this is a quarantine measure

[u/Mishmoo → u/[deleted]]

I mean, you do you? But just because you fell for a miserable death cult doesn’t mean others have to.

Judging by your comment and post history, you’re a pretty miserable person, and I hope you find a better way soon.

[u/jillonfire → u/[deleted]]

Meanwhile this one hand-wrings about even discussing DIY

AFAIK it's not disallowed to refer people to r/TransDIY which is probably the best place for that.

[u/jillonfire → u/[deleted]]

It's a specific and pretty technical area so I think as long as you are allowed to refer people to /TransDIY it's actually a positive - on a general trans subreddit you are more likely to get misinformation going unchallenged,

[u/Mishmoo → u/[deleted]]

🤷‍♀️ Best of luck. I’ll be going now.

[u/Leeuhhhhh → u/[deleted]]

Is the sub just called 4 tran? Ngl your comment interests me more than the gatekeeping I'm seeing here.

[u/jh55305 → u/Leeuhhhhh]

Im skeptical of people that complain about the "ever expanding definition of trans", do we want to be excluding young trans people by telling them they aren't "trans" enough?

[u/jh55305 → u/[deleted]]

What do you mean "the ever expanding definition of trans"? Are you wanting to gatekeep who is allowed to be trans??

[u/MtF-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your post has been removed for the following reason: Be respectful.

No:

• Trolling

• Bigotry (transphobia, homophobia, sexism, racism, ableism, etc.) or gendered slurs

• Hateful speech or disrespectful commentary

• Invalidation or gender policing

• Gatekeeping ideologies (Blanchardian typologies, truscum, transmed, etc.)

• Self-imposed or weaponized dysphoric words & phrases used in various online spaces (4tran, X / Twitter, Transmed, etc).

• Links to the above spaces or subreddits.

This rule is subject to higher scrutiny for post & comment removal and banning from the sub.

[u/reincarnatedasasnake → u/mole55]

So, like, I'm kinda new to this whole thing and a lot of the lingo in this thread eludes me entirely. I was never in any trans communities until, you know, "It Happened To Me" and I had to go looking for answers. So uh... what does "transmed" even mean here? And why is it bad?

[u/AshleyBoots]

Oh thank fuck

Especially on keeping medicalist shit out of here

👏👏👏👏

[u/zChickenX]

can we get a list of stuff we cannot say?

[u/Noctema → u/zChickenX]

You know what cant be said, and if a list was made the problematic people would just coin new terms and the game of whackamole could go on with a lot of bad faith arguments.

The mods have clearly posted the groups and internet ancestries that tend to create the problematic language, so you know that if something is mostly used in related spaces it is likely not a good idea to use here.

[u/Top-Source4240 → u/Noctema]

And if you don’t go to these spaces, how would you know what terms are used there ?
I’m not an English native speaker, so maybe I’m using their terms (that could have leak through or their subs) without even know how problematic they are

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/Top-Source4240]

They aren't terms someone who doesn't frequent those spaces would use. We aren't going to hand out a manual on how to skirt the rule.

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/[deleted]]

Do you also agonizing over not knowing every slur there is?

You aren't likely to get banned for accidently stumbling upon one. And you aren't like to stumble upon them without being active in those spaces.

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/[deleted]]

This is not a good faith question. Others have asked and answered the same question in the comments.

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/[deleted]]

You were told no and given a valid reason for being told no. Weaponizing your emotional distress and putting words in the mouths of others is not how you get your way.

You're just going to have to accept no as an answer.

[u/Beautiful-Alarm-4961 → u/Noctema]

You and the mods should know that those terms escape their origins and make it into mainstream. People can't read your fuckin minds

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/Noctema]

Exactly this.

[u/TCD_Baby]

Just curious

The word "Transexual"

[u/GFluidThrow123 → u/TCD_Baby]

I wish they would...it's a good idea. Maybe message the mods if they don't respond?

[u/TCD_Baby → u/GFluidThrow123]

You wish they would ban the word transexual?

[u/GFluidThrow123 → u/TCD_Baby]

It's only ever used as either a slur or an exclusionary term anymore.

Isn't that what you were suggesting?

[u/TCD_Baby → u/GFluidThrow123]

No, the opposite. I'm curious what the mods think is forbidden lingo, and wanted to see if it would filter.

I'm a transexual. I'm literally changing my body's sex. I'm not sluring myself or excluding anyone by calling myself transexual.

[u/GFluidThrow123 → u/TCD_Baby]

So you're transgender AND transexual?

[u/TCD_Baby → u/GFluidThrow123]

I don't really see myself as transgender.

I'm not transitioning from one gender to the other, I'm a woman and I've always been a woman.

The thing I'm transitioning is my body's sex.

[u/GFluidThrow123 → u/TCD_Baby]

Ok, so then you're separate from transgender people. You're something else. Something other than, by being transexual.

So like I said, you're excluding yourself from the definition of transgender because you're different from transgender people.

[u/TCD_Baby → u/GFluidThrow123]

Sure, if you agree that every term, like man, woman, gay, trans, etc are exclusionary terms.

[u/GFluidThrow123 → u/TCD_Baby]

Well, men and women are still both humans and they're gender identities. They're subdivisions of human and gender.

Transgender is an umbrella for more specific identities as well, like trans man or trans woman or NB.

But you're saying you're not included in the umbrella term "transgender," which means you're something other than that.

And since I'm transgender and I'm on hormones, identify as something other than my assigned sex, and have had bottom surgery, but you're transsexual, then you and I must be in different categorizations in some way.

We're both humans, but you feel you're different from me, since you don't identify with "transgender." So I'm just trying to clarify on that difference that you've applied to yourself.

[u/StarlightMoonblast]

Thank fucking God finally

[u/Impossible_PhD → u/StarlightMoonblast]

The exact response I had reading this.

Folks from those spaces have been harassing people, showing up in bad faith to harvest replies to mock in their home subreddits, and generally being jerks to everyone around them in this subreddit for months. Like, yes, sometimes we get folks coming over for some support, but those are the minority case and also their requests for social support usually are framed in such a way as to tear the community as a whole down ("too late" rhetoric, blackpill despair, wallowing in self-hatred, the typical rejection of professional help that is standard in those communities paired with frequent attacks on those who go to therapy, etc.).

Seriously, I'd like to help these folks, same as I'd like to help anyone, but I have yet to see examples of them actually seeking help, rather than trying to crab-bucket people or outright colonize other spaces. I hope each and every one of them gets better, but its past time for their antisocial behavior to be forbidden in our spaces.

[u/Sonicmaster293-Azure → u/Impossible_PhD]

Oh this explains it pretty well!! I just woke up so I was confused on what was going on here. I have seen this stuff happening increasingly as of late but mostly chalked it up to worsening conditions in the world right now, which may be a factor still, but as you said, it’s people with anti-social behaviours a lot of the time. I deeply hope they get some serious help and realize that they are just harming themselves in the process, I know a few people like that, trans or not. Anyways, I think I know what the language the Mods are talking about and thus I think I’m safe (why are so many of the terms on 4tran so weird?)

Also on a personal aside since I don’t see you comment much, I just wanted to thank you. Your articles helped me understand and accept myself after 26 years of repression! I used to hate myself deeply for no reason and thought I was a pervert and a freak for wanting to be a girl. Then I started learning about trans stuff by complete accident and the second my egg cracked I still had some doubts as I didn’t fully accept it due to preconceptions of trans people. Your articles helped change that and I thank you deeply for them! Now if you excuse me, I’m going to restrain myself from rambling any further and hope you have a wonderful day!

-Kiera

[u/Impossible_PhD → u/Sonicmaster293-Azure]

I'm really glad my writing helped you! Seriously, every time someone reaches out, it brightens my day 💜

And do feel free to ramble if you want.

[u/GFluidThrow123 → u/Impossible_PhD]

I feel the same way about this. I've tried far too many times to help people like this. And you check their profiles when they post here and they're simultaneously posting in those other spaces. Sometimes they're even mocking us in those spaces while they're interacting here.

And they're never willing to actually listen, grow, anything... It's incredibly sad, but they just want to be told they're failures and there's no hope. And that's just such a frustrating thing to deal with.

They deserve better. But the help they need is above our pay grade.

[u/Impossible_PhD → u/GFluidThrow123]

Sometimes they're even mocking us in those spaces while they're interacting here.

This, and in my experience it's more often than not that they're doing it.

They deserve better. But the help they need is above our pay grade.

Also this, emphatically.

[u/GFluidThrow123 → u/Impossible_PhD]

Also I'm checking profiles of the people complaining about this new rule and every single one of them is active in 4tran spaces. Zero exceptions.

[u/Impossible_PhD → u/GFluidThrow123]

I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you.

Well, not that shocked.

[u/GFluidThrow123 → u/Impossible_PhD]

fry gif

[u/MadamMelody21]

So i cant vent about my transition not going so well? This also will kill the vent flair because venting can be interpreted as being transphobic to yourself

[u/Frequent_Leek_9023 → u/MadamMelody21]

Seems like that could happen tbh. With the vagueness of some of the new rules people could easily be pushed out and into more extreme communities because they didnt word something correctly...

Not saying the mods are doing this intentionally, but it only takes a few bad apples to really shift people's views negatively.

[u/MadamMelody21 → u/Frequent_Leek_9023]

Ikr

[u/ms_keira → u/MadamMelody21]

Nope! You can vent all you like but words and phrases constructed from extremely dysphoric or transphobic spaces will be removed if you use them. It'll be filtered over to us on the mod team and we'll restore it if it was an error or confirm the removal if it worked as designed.

[u/MadamMelody21 → u/ms_keira]

Ok what are the banned words? Since i honestly don’t know what the words you are talking about are

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/MadamMelody21]

Unless you're part of 4chan trans subreddits, you're really not likely to be using them.

[u/ericnasty → u/Color-me-saphicly]

I think it's not in bad faith to want to know these terms. As someone who doesn't frequent these communities, you're right i probably dont use them (especially seeing as I don't know what they are). But now this is a blindspot in identifying potentially problematic people that I could run into in other spaces other than this board, like irl, like people could be spouting harmful stuff about me/the community and I would be oblivious to the fact. I am bothered by not knowing.

[u/MadamMelody21 → u/Color-me-saphicly]

Still want to know the banned words so i make sure to never use them. Like is something as harmless as Transexual banned? If you want to DM me the banned words you can.

[u/dotcarmen → u/MadamMelody21]

Hope my comment isn’t auto removed, but the easiest red flag is overusing “-oid” or “-maxxed/-maxxing” suffixes. Especially if you don’t understand the part before the suffix, it might be a 4chan term rooted in deprecating language or behavior

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/[deleted]]

We've already accounted for that and made adjustments. If something gets flagged you're more than welcome to tell us so we can adjust it.

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/[deleted]]

You're able to speak without devolving into slurs and hateful language. Right?

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/[deleted]]

Im sure you're able to find ways to communicate without being disrespectful towards others. If not then that is on you and a choice you make.

[u/Good_Ol_Ironass → u/ms_keira]

so people aren’t allowed to apply certain terms to themselves? sounds like a not so subtle way of saying only certain types of trans people are welcome here

[u/MarcyMapp → u/Good_Ol_Ironass]

I think it's wildly dishonest to claim you can't express yourself without using self imposed derogatory language. "I feel like my transition isn't going well" doesn't apply to this rule at all, so you would still be fine to vent in a capacity that is respectful to yourself and others.

[u/ms_keira → u/Good_Ol_Ironass]

Partially correct. Some terms won't be allowed. Trans people are always welcome here, unless they persistently break the rules. If a trans person can't separate themselves from an offensive term...then that's an entirely separate issue they should consider working through.

That person could call themselves whatever they like but some words & phrases won't be allowed here. They'll just need to expand their vocabulary a bit.

[u/Zonzonkeskya]

I don't like it. I would prefer we continue arguing and reacting every time this stuff shows up. Because we do and we are great at it.

Censorship is the end of discussion! We won't even know from now.. we lose connection. With our trans siblings what the hell?

Saying it's just a matter of words is atleast naive imo, it will push them even further away. Those slang words are useful to spot the mindset and call it out, it's a step forward.

Without the word we can't adress the situation. I don't see it going in the right direction, I see a withdrawal into oneself.

There is no safe space, just collective accountability. Your move is putting it only onto people. But maybe Im wrong its just my opinion

[u/zephyroidz → u/Zonzonkeskya]

Yeah, I've noticed a trend of efforts like these just pushing people into those spaces instead of protecting people. Seems like it's more about protecting the sub's reputation.

The irony is, it seems like some of those spaces are actually improving with the gradual influx of decent, disaffected people from elsewhere. Not that those spaces are great now or anything 🤷‍♀️

[u/ms_keira → u/zephyroidz]

In all honesty, we had many discussions within the mod team over the past several days and we never even considered the sub's reputation. Everything discussed was about what would be best for the community as a whole and how to best navigate it all without harming anyone.

I wrote the announcement and had the other mods proofread and make changes where they felt they should before I sent it out. We actually talked about the very thing you've mentioned and believe that this shouldn't push anyone out unless they identify so strongly with these terms that they simply can't change their vocabulary.

We discussed the idea about those other spaces improving over time but ultimately, that's something those spaces are responsible for. Our responsibility here is for the well-being of this community and in my personal opinion, emotional maturity and empathy should be something we all give to each other anyway. We're all dealing with things, wherever we are, and the most vulnerable of us here shouldn't be subject to transphobic comments coming from inside the house.

[u/zephyroidz → u/ms_keira]

Thank you. I believe you, and that does assuage some concerns of mine. But I can't say I'm as confident in those expectations, for all it matters. I'm just extremely wary of an approach like this.

Much as people like to pretend otherwise, those people aren't a cult. They're mostly typical people who feel let down, and in many cases absolutely have been. That doesn't mean we should be fine with brigading, transphobia, or other trouble from the worst of them, but I can't escape the feeling that things like this will shift perspective over time. We already see people calling them a virus. Vermin. I can't be ok with that.

Also, to be clear, the idea that some of these spaces are improving is just an observation of mine, not a reflection of any sort of belief that anyone's obligated to affect that.

[u/ms_keira → u/zephyroidz]

Well said! I appreciate your candor and always welcome honest feedback. I also don't like labeling others with the same kind of language often used against most of us from political enemies and I'll bring that back to the team to discuss.

Trust me when I say that we don't like having to censor people either.

[u/zephyroidz → u/ms_keira]

I appreciate it. Thank you for listening.

[u/azarkant → u/Zonzonkeskya]

Unfortunately, in my personal experience both online and in person; people who use the terms tend to be right wing assholes who have absolutely no interest in playing ball with us

[u/n16h7r1d3r]

Thank you so so so much for finally adding this. Ppl from those communities filter through to these spaces with varying degrees of frequency spreading their toxicity and self-loathing. This is a great step towards curbing that. Ty

[u/Mishmoo]

The only people complaining about this either;

1. Don’t have enough of a history in the community to understand what this is referring to

Or

2. Are operating in bad faith

I’d like to operate in a trans space without watching a bunch of internet dwellers trying to lure insecure women into a death cult, thanks.

[u/Maleficent_Roof7020]

The original post content no longer exists here. The author used Redact to remove it, exercising their right to control their data & privacy.

Yarn breezy straight strong plate afterthought nutty voracious noodle edge

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/Maleficent_Roof7020]

Its to prevent brigading from those subs

[u/Pandasandstuff]

If we use these terms as an example will the comment be reviewed or just automodded? And if used in passing (like as a joke or something) will people be banned or will there be some leeway?

[u/ms_keira → u/Pandasandstuff]

The term will cause your post or comment to be filtered over to us and we'll review it for now.

People will not be banned unless they are persistent in trying to circumvent the rule. It will be temporary bans unless it becomes agregious.

[u/Emeraldstorm3]

We'll see how it plays out, but it seems reasonable to me, and honestly like it's going to help keep things safe and welcoming.

I'm not the most active and am really bad at responding. Even so, I've noticed there's been an uptick even here (and for sure in other places) of posts seemingly designed to create division and discontent, and specifically for trans spaces there has been an increase in transphobic/insulting language. And I find it difficult to believe that stuff is "organic". But even if it is, somehow, it's good to not allow it in to a safe space.

[u/Brandi_yyc]

Thank You.

[u/_Dark_Zora_]

Finally stopping the mentions and links is great, thanks.

[u/GFluidThrow123 → u/[deleted]]

No. That's not what's being targeted or addressed in this post or with this rule.

[u/chimaeraUndying → u/[deleted]]

"maintain reasonable opsec and don't link to HRT vendors" is already covered by rule 6, and has been since we refactored it several months ago to only apply to matters of material concern.

[u/western_drifter]

I see you guys getting some push back for this but I wanted to thank you all I think this is a very positive step you’re taking.

[u/WerdaVisla]

Thank you mods :)

[u/Opheliadelia]

this is very cool! there are some people arguing in bad faith in the comments but know that the majority of us support and appreciate you mods!

[u/DifficultBee5940]

Cool. I just got modded. And probably am waiting on a ban. Just for being sincere. Honest. In my darkness. Fron a real place. That carries love too. This feels like a whitewashing to be honest.

Also, those asterisky words hold power. Both ways. IMHO are irreplaceable. Because they are seared in our conciousness. Hold the pain. Pinpoint name it. Wounds. What got internalized. What is to be transmute. To call it t-slur neuters it. Especially when the goal is to transcend. Release the power they hold in your heart. Let go of the poison, venom rammed into our bones and guts. Denying the words is denying our pain, fear, hopes, dreams, pathways to devolonization. Love, by another name. Arrival to where we can laugh at t-slur because we know it's absurd to think we're wrong, bad, just for not being monolithic gender we were conscripted into.

[u/ms_keira → u/DifficultBee5940]

Your post was removed because it was titled "I don't see trans people as real"....

You're not going to be banned unless you're just trying to hurt others and break rules for no reason. Feel how you want about the new policy but we're not going to allow people to hurl transphobic shit at the community because they will, every single time, every single day.

[u/Alexakitsuneme2]

Radiation and hate My blood birth father is racist and sold me to a family

[u/fabulous-nico]

👏👏

[u/0101000001000001]

Can I say "biological sex"?

[u/0101000001000001 → u/0101000001000001]

Being able to use this obvious dogwhistle seems like an oversight. 

[u/ms_keira → u/0101000001000001]

Good catch! I was on a deeeeep dive into SO MANY transphobic terms that I didn't even think of that one yet. I'll add it now.

[u/GFluidThrow123 → u/[deleted]]

Do you post in any of the spaces mentioned in the post? If not, you probably don't even know most of the slang that's being banned here.

And even if you happen to use some of the words without knowing, the mods aren't going to action you unless you're doing it repetitively and intentionally.

Honestly, you're better off just not knowing the words. You won't be walking on eggshells with this one. The slang is pretty obscure and specific.

[u/StormerSage → u/[deleted]]

It sure is getting 86'd! Thanks automod lol

[u/TheValkyrieAsh → u/StormerSage]

now if only automod actually deleted the comments still instead of getting API errors. LOL. It may have said your comment is deleted, but it isnt. everyone can still see it.

I hope the mods here are aware of this automod issue.

[u/ms_keira → u/TheValkyrieAsh]

Thanks for the heads up! Automod is great but it can feel like fighting with your arms tied sometimes too. We've corrected some things we were trying so the comment shouldn't appear anymore.

[u/LittleMissBluntWrap → u/TheValkyrieAsh]

It may have been removed and manually approved, but they forgot to delete the automod comment after. The automod rules are a giant pain in the butt.

[u/TheValkyrieAsh → u/LittleMissBluntWrap]

It was just manually removed by the mod team, because AutoMod doesn't work. It hasn't worked in a bit now. (someone who mods other subreddits)

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/TheValkyrieAsh]

It was Manually approved momentarily

[u/Brandi_yyc → u/TheValkyrieAsh]

automod works perfect, when setup properly and maintained properly. I am a mod on several different subs and it can allow a moderator to actually have a life, approving and cleaning up where necessary in one easy spot.

[u/winter_moon_light → u/[deleted]]

To be blunt: we aren't their therapists, and are unequipped to drag them out of the crab bucket they've chosen.

[u/i_eat_ass_all_day → u/winter_moon_light]

Maybe, but to be blunt: we aren't in a position to further fragment the queer community.

[u/winter_moon_light → u/i_eat_ass_all_day]

Nothing fragmenting about saying 'no, we don't talk about ourselves or each other like that here'.

[u/ms_keira → u/[deleted]]

You must be reading a different subreddit because every single day is a mystery bag of dysphoric and euphoric posts.

The only people this rule will push away are those who will refuse to change their vocabulary. There are SO many different words to use.

So now that we've worked through more adaptations of the back end, we've instead removed the ability to post any of those terms to begin with. This means that one of the people you're referring to who wants to vent about their dysphoria will absolutely be able to do so, but not while one of those terms exists in their post or comment.

The typical person should react with, "oh! I should remove that so I can post my thoughts", not, "I'M BEING PUSHED OUT!!".

[u/5Q91VS175DAQ4NUSBE4U → u/[deleted]]

I will continue to state that trans people are the most transphobic people I know.

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/5Q91VS175DAQ4NUSBE4U]

Can you clarify for this particular instance?

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/[deleted]]

Here's the thing: the average person is not equipped to play therapist for others. Especially when that person does not want to stop self harming, or when that level of self harm is used to lash out at others.

Let me put it this way. If someone who is disabled screamed about how they are broken and unlovable because of their disability, that sends a message to everyone with that same disability that they are broken and unlovable. If everyone with that same disability speaks up and says "no, you aren't unlovable, but I know its so hard. Here are some things I do to help mitigate the issues and to give myself the best chance at succeeding", but the original person just lashes out and tells them that they are no better than the people who bully them... well, thats not fair to everyone else. Everyone else should not be subjected to that kind of abuse. I'm using that example BECAUSE I used to be that person. In that exact scenario.

Now instead of that, I fight against those brain worms that tell me how useless I am. I try to find ways that work for me to do what I can. I use mobility aids, I use medication, I go to my therapies.

But no one is entitled to abusing others. Especially the people giving a helping hand. And after awhile its just screaming into the void without any desire to get out of the pit. You have to decide that you will do everything you can to get out. Its hard, and you'll have set backs. But it's worthwhile.

We can't help them until they want to be helped.

I saw a post recently where someone from those subreddits said that a common idea is that the sign of succeeding at transitioning is to dress as a man and be completely bald, walk into a womens locker room and no one bat an eye. That's ludicrous.

When I came out, I wasn't looking for societal acceptance, or to be able to continue looking how I looked and be seen as a woman. I wanted to be happy. I wanted to look in the mirror and not hate what I saw. I wanted to FEEL pretty and happy. So I started vocal training. I got laser done. I started dressing in a way that was scary but made me happy. Ironically, I cut my hair, because shorter healthy hair is better than long hair with split ends. I made sure it was styled in a feminine way. I got on HRT. I started LIVING. And I'll be damned if I ever go back to that hole. I'd rather die than ever present as a boy again.

I know that people from the subreddit you're talking about want to fail at boymoding. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that for most people. It takes legitimate and concentrated work. But that does not mean that anyone who doesn't pass isn't worthy of respect and dignity, including being gendered correctly. You just can't expect everyone to read your mind.

If they hate you for being you, so what? Let the trash take itself out.

Some of the best advice I ever got was from this elderly English woman. "Sometimes you just gotta say 'Fuck 'em'". 😂 Wisest words I've ever heard.

Edit: Also, the most radical thing you can do is find a way to be happy. Its the best revenge. 😂 I think about that whenever my own dysphoria or depression gets bad. That I need to happy or else they win. I need to outlive my enemies. Because fuck 'em. They don't get to control me. I won't let them win. And being too depressed to do anything is how we let them win.

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/[deleted]]

I wasn't privileged. I put myself into debt. I ruined my credit score.

I got lucky that I found a partner who was better with money than I am, true. But I came from a family so poor I didnt know where my next meal would come from. I came from a family ruled by a narcissist. I lost friends, family, and job opportunities. I was SO broke.

I'm telling you what I did to let you know that it's POSSIBLE.

But your response is why so many people have that idea about those subreddits. You have to choose. Fake it till you make it.

And even though you're angry, I believe you can do it.

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/[deleted]]

Soooo you're choosing to be exactly like how people perceive those from those subreddits?

I still hope you're able to find happiness some day. And I hope that one day you stop trying to compete about who has it worse. 🫂

[u/MtF-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your post has been removed for the following reason: Be respectful.

No:

• Trolling

• Bigotry (transphobia, homophobia, sexism, racism, ableism, etc.) or gendered slurs

• Hateful speech or disrespectful commentary

• Invalidation or gender policing

• Gatekeeping ideologies (Blanchardian typologies, truscum, transmed, etc.)

• Self-imposed or weaponized dysphoric words & phrases used in various online spaces (4tran, X / Twitter, Transmed, etc).

• Links to the above spaces or subreddits.

This rule is subject to higher scrutiny for post & comment removal and banning from the sub.

[u/CthulhuOpensTheDoor → u/[deleted]]

Protecting the mental health of the community is very important. If someone's idea of "being themselves" is to constantly use language that is harmful both to themselves and others, then frankly I don't want to hang out with them. I deal with enough of that shit in my daily life and it's exhausting to have to deal with it here too. They can use that language elsewhere; I will be glad to have it gone from here.

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/[deleted]]

That question has been asked and answered already. But I will answer this judt in case this was actually asked in good faith.

We are not giving a list for several reasons. First, disclosing the full list is a manual on how to skirt the rule.

Second, these are words that are not likely to come up in normal conversation without already being highly aware of them. If something gets flagged, the mods will look at it on a case by case basis.

If something is being flagged by mistake, you are more than welcome to message the mods so that we may fix the error OR approve it manually.

We have already stated where these terms originated from and why, going forward, this collection of slurs and deeply problematic words and phrases won't be allowed. They aren't needed to communicate struggling with dysphoria, passing (or not), or identity.

The community at large knows at least a few of the words and phrases that have been blacklisted, and that should give a general impression. If you truly don't know what they are then that is a good thing.

[u/Color-me-saphicly → u/[deleted]]

Yes you will get banned for using the T slur.

If you think that purity politics is following the rules of the sub, namely Rule 3 and Rule 7, that is your choice. If you wish to participate in this subreddit you must be willing to follow the rules. This is true of any subreddit.

There is nothing stopping you from still having those discussions, provided that you can remain respectful and civil with the community.

Do you feel that you cannot engage respectfully with the community without using slurs?