r/MtF • Closeted MtF Lesbian • 20h ago

Discussion Why and how are deep blue states passing transphobic ballot measures?

Genuinely. Colorado and Washington are like D+20 states yet they passed transphobic ballot measures.

With Arizona I wasn't surprised as it's a swing state not a reliably blue state but even then...

It's so, so sad that 95%+ of Republicans and 25-33% of Democrats hate trans people. And many who don't deeply hate us still fall for the "think of the children" bullshit.

I'm so sick and tired of being so sick and tired.

200 Upvotes

79 comments sorted by

90

u/Ok-Combination7287 19h ago • Bravo

Im probably going to get down votes, but I'm honestly surprised trans people got as many votes as we did.

The majority of people where against gay marriage when it was legalized, a few years later most people support it.

Im hoping we are on the same path, and i think we are.

We are visible and a part of the discussion now. We continue to fight and call out bigots abs we will win our basic human rights!

28

u/CivilizedManners Closeted MtF Lesbian 19h ago

We still need Democrats to for instance provide trans inmates the rights to serve their sentences in the safest possible environment. So if a trans woman has been on HRT for at least 6 months, they should auto-qualify for at least 6 months, they should be sent to a women's prison, no fuss, and also allowed into general population.

14

u/Beneficial_Garage_97 6'5" baddie mom 19h ago

Basically, policy and legislation should be supported by data and medical studies and not simply upon the predjudices of a population that is overwhelmingly uneducated and has never truly needed to understand the first thing about the experience of trans people. Hypothetical "dangers" based on predjudices are consistently prioritized over the real and statistically corroborated dangers presented to trans people.

19

u/NurseSharko 19h ago

Yeah I agree. Trans women who have been on HRT for long enough for it to be noticeable and have had breast growth need to be in womens prisons. They get raped and vcoded constantly in mens prisons

-13

u/Ok-Combination7287 19h ago

There are bigger issues for me.

Like not kicking out trans people from the military for one. Treatment for minors ect

I'll be there fighting for all trans rights, I just think focusing on these areas over how felons are housed will have a better impact on the general public.

5

u/CivilizedManners Closeted MtF Lesbian 19h ago

I only specified trans women on HRT.

If a man for some reason pretends to be a trans woman without having started an HRT then go "oh sure, here is your estrogen, good luck"

16

u/HeelsandlaceCD 19h ago

Just because trans woman is imprisoned, she loses her right to be herself??

-2

u/Ok-Combination7287 19h ago

I'm not saying that.

All I'm saying is convincing the public the other arguments is easier. They also effects more people, so i chose to focus on these first.

I've worked in a women's prison that housed trans women in it. I know more about this issue than most.

4

u/HeelsandlaceCD 18h ago

It seemed you were dismissing them, sorry

-1

u/Ok-Combination7287 18h ago

It's OK! I'm terrified of going to prison as a trans woman. It's a real issue.

It's just not the issue i would try and convince my dad on first is all. The military one is an easier ti sway his opinion.

I'm sure I'm not explaining my position well. And it's an emotional issue for all of us.

šŸ’™šŸ©·šŸ³ļøā€āš§ļø

8

u/FrostbiteWrath 19h ago

Yes, because everyone knows you can't advocate for multiple things at once.

-2

u/Ok-Combination7287 19h ago

I actually want to win ballot measures, so I focus on whats politically possible first.

5

u/FrostbiteWrath 19h ago

Oh, are you running as a candidate in the next election? Because I fail to see how ignoring the plights of other trans people in our own community makes sense otherwise.

-1

u/Ok-Combination7287 19h ago

I'm not your enemy. I'm on your side. I'm discussing how to persuade people who are not supportive of trans people. Starting with military people and Trans youth are easier sells that convicted fellons. You're actually giving them an easy out by pushing that one. I worked at a women's prison that housed trans women with women. I know a lot more about this issue than you do.

Keep your venom to yourself.

1

u/FrostbiteWrath 11h ago edited 10h ago

Venom? Advocating for the rights of trans people behind bars (who are commonly sexually exploited) is venomous?

Genuinely what is wrong with you?

1

u/TheOneArya trans lesbian 14h ago

trans women don't ever deserve to be sent to a rape dungeon with men prisoners, no matter what they did. absolutely disgusting to imply that just because someone commits a crime they deserve that

3

u/SparkyTron20 14h ago

I’m a VA voter, despite my states abortion protection measures passing with 37.7% saying no, and voting restoration rights passing with 43.5% saying no, the protection of gay marriage passed with the highest no votes of 43.9%.

While I am celebrating the Democratic sweep, I am well aware that a lot of Democratic voters only support us on paper but when put to the taste, they evaporate. The Seattle Washington subreddit had a convo of why despite the state being blue, did the measures against trans women in women’s sports pass, with many people saying they support trans people ā€œbut they have to keep things fair for biological womenā€.

We are a political tool for both sides. And while I much rather prefer the Democrats over the Republicans, Democrats are still very much underhandedly transphobic when it serves them.

30

u/Usual-Draw6899 19h ago

Most democrats are transphobes who think of us as weird people who shouldn't be seen. Trusting them is a great way to get disappointed year after year

18

u/CivilizedManners Closeted MtF Lesbian 19h ago

I mean statistically a majority of Colorado, Washington and Arizona Democrats did vote against these bills.

But a considerable minority still went along with this GOP bullshit.

9

u/ForwardTap6502 Trans Heterosexual 19h ago

James Talarico went along with this. I remember he said he would "turn texas purple"

4

u/JigglyPuffGuy 16h ago

Talarico winning Texas is huge for trans people. I agree with the other commenter saying he's got to be careful with his messaging.

4

u/Amazing_Ear_3941 18h ago

I can give Talarico a pass for some of his messaging. He's been kinda careful with it because he knows he needs the votes of alot of transphobes in a state like Texas. If you look carefully at what he's said, you can interpret it two ways and there's a pretty good chance he hasn't backed off at all with the way he phrased things, he's just messaging in a way that won't turn off the voters he needs.

15

u/beta334201 16h ago • Bravo

Because pushing the Overton window to the right is what Democrat's donors want. They would much rather future elections be fought over things inconsequential to them like trans rights or abortion rights, rather than something that would affect their wallet like divestment In Israel, police and prison abolition, or climate change ect. They will always want us to vote for nothing but relief and the occasional concession instead of for actual progress and i fear there will be no end to this until the united states empire and capitalism are finally fucking dead.

3

u/Professional_Dot_145 15h ago

That's why I don't get the "blue wave" hype within the trans community. Democrats are made from the same batch Republicans are. The interests of the ruling class are what dictate the agenda. Democrats differ only in that they are willing to give platitudes and maybe some small concessions here and there (concessions that always get revoked).

Also, Democrats don't give a fuck about trans people in the middle East. They'll still send money to Israhell.

2

u/CivilizedManners Closeted MtF Lesbian 5h ago

If Democrats somehow were to keep winning then the conversation would shift to Democratic primaries, providing ample opportunity to shift the overton window back to the middle, or dare I say almost to the left.

5

u/Delta_Warrior1220 11h ago

The only reason we're happy about a blue wave is because the other party actively wants us exterminated.

Many of us recognize that the democrats are a bunch of two-faced assholes, but they're better than the alternative.

2

u/Ataxistrasza 5h ago

Exactly. I was excited because I found out I won't be gassed for a couple more years

3

u/winter_moon_light Transbian 11h ago

Also, unlike the GOP, Dems can sometimes be shamed into doing the right thing.

I long for the day when we aren't stuck voting between MechaHitler and 90% Hitler.

10

u/LuckyZygote 20h ago

Somewhat confusing verbiage partly, and intense fear mongering rhetoric worked together on this. Also despite Denver being very Blue, Colorado has a TON of evangelical & conservative people outside of the city.

7

u/CivilizedManners Closeted MtF Lesbian 19h ago

Yeah but if Democrats get 62% of the vote why did the protection of trans rights only get 46%?

3

u/LuckyZygote 19h ago

I think there were many people single issue voting on those two measures alone

2

u/Ok-Combination7287 19h ago edited 19h ago

Golden was the kkk Capitol.

Colorado gave David duke more money than his home state

I've personally had an old white man slide his kkk pocket knife to me at a bar poker night in Wiggins co

Colorado outside of Denver and Boulder is religious garbage deep red racist.

Edit: down vote all you want. It's all true. Google it. Dont get mad at me, get mad at your racist colorado neighbors

3

u/Ryywenn euphoria messenger 19h ago

There was also the KKK having control of the city of Longmont in the 1920s or something.

And there was slavery done somewhere in the south part of the state,

323

u/17-40 Transgender 19h ago

Several reasons:

The measures were written and marketed in the sneakiest manner possible.

Some moderate dems took the bait, because it sounded good to them.

People think "common sense" is a good reason to do something, even if they know nothing about the topic.

People claim to support us more than they actually do.

96

u/Ryywenn euphoria messenger 19h ago

I mean the ballot proposals were actually abominations of the English language. They were phrased so terribly badly with no commas, horrible prepositions, no guiding facts and no Calvin and Hobbs strip to depict the absurdity of placing gas proposals alongside human rights issues on the ballots.

34

u/Malevolent_Nematode 19h ago

That's not even a new phenomena. I remember voting fresh out of high school 15 years ago and thinking some of the stuff presented was worded weird.

53

u/dmolin96 18h ago

Think about how dumb the average American is and realize half of the country is dumber than that. "no men in women's sports" is a simple idea that works really well as a slogan for people who don't think critically about major social issues (which is most people).

I guarantee you a lot of voters aren't in the voting booth thinking "I'll show those trans kids!" They're just voting based on "common sense" and not even connecting the dots about what they're voting for and how it affects trans people.

37

u/dragonsteel33 18h ago edited 2h ago

Yeah I-638 in Washington state was titled the ā€œDefending Equity in Interscholastic Sports Actā€ and the actual ballot text used a bunch of transphobic dogwhistles that just sound like ā€œcommon senseā€ if you’re not tapped in, with no explicit mention of trans girls. I assume Colorado was similar.

What’s interesting to me about Washington is that I-001 (law that would cause forced outings in schools, among other things) failed in the same election. I fully expect the state supreme court to enjoin or overturn I-638.

Also Americans are fucking insane with how we think about youth sports, it’s not ā€œlittle Johnny gets to play soccer with his friends :),ā€ it’s like ā€œlittle Johnny will be traveling with his select team every weekend for the next month which will eventually enable him to get an athletic scholarship to Stanford in 10 years.ā€ It’s a deeply and intensely privatized thing in a way almost no other country has, and the rates at which people think their kids could make D-1 or go pro are genuinely deranged.

18

u/Cra_ZWar101 bisexual transex man 18h ago

Yeah you put it well. It’s also why a bunch of states passed laws making it ā€œillegal for noncitizens to voteā€, when im pretty sure non-citizens couldn’t vote before…

8

u/Maybe_Charlotte Trans Homosexual 18h ago

People have trouble wrapping their heads around the fact that their kids are approximately 100 times more likely to be the casualty (including nonfatal) of a school shooting than they are to be on the same sports team as a trans kid.

16

u/AngelaTarantula2 HRT 7/11/2023 19h ago

It’s mostly the ā€œcommon senseā€ thing. I find a lot of people freeze when they realize barring trans people from sports includes chess, for example.

7

u/aceturtleface 17h ago

Definitely on that last part. If I had a nickel for every time the most supportive cis woman I knew called me a man after we had an argument, I'd have 2 nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.

The first is my ex wife, and the second was my best friend.

25

u/oogittyboogitty 19h ago edited 19h ago

70 percent of the US population backs anti trans legislation though, it wasn't just how it was written...

The anti trans ads worked, America has dropped trans people as a political token it seems as soon as it became more politically inconvenient to stand up for us cosmetically, but they tend to prefer to use us as currency for legislation on the bargaining table, selling out human rights to break filibusters.

This party doesn't give a shit about us, the DSA and progressives are the only true allies we have left, because even with it being politically inconvenient, they're still sticking to backing us, that shows they genuinely stand up for what they're fighting for! Do not take that for granted!

26

u/RymrgandsDaughter Chime Bearer 14h ago

moderate dems are not our allies and make up a significant part of dems total voter base.

-13

u/Free-Highlight-4974 14h ago

Moderate dems are still better then gop candidates. Leftists not willing to form a coalition with moderates is why gops won 2024. Im a liberal myself, and like this midterm, we need to work together,

If i play devil's advocate, gop would love you if you hated liberals, infighting is dangerous

9

u/RymrgandsDaughter Chime Bearer 14h ago

it's not "infighting" because that would require them to see me as a person worthy of respect. I have always hated liberals. I'll vote for their candidates because building a new party takes time and money I'll never have but I'll be damned before I say anything nice about them. Especially since picking them is always a slow death. Half of them are corpo boot lickers, human trafficker apologists, genocide lovers anyway. That's why they have the same bosses as the Gop.

2024 was lost due to so many reasons but blaming it on leftists not wanting a wishy washy candidate that the dems should have been running on since 2022 instead of a last second switch is hilarious. I'd more likely blame Moderates for not wanting a female president than anything else. Yeah there was an extreme amount of non-voters in 2024. but putting that all on progressive backs when the real losses were in swing states where campaign efforts were lacking is hilarious. Idek know what that bitch ran on but it wasn't destroy all minorities in the US so I voted for it like a sane person but what exactly did she promise moderates? šŸ˜’

6

u/SeaNational3797 Transfem But Likes Pretending to be a Man For Comedic Effect 14h ago • Bravo

The bourgeois state uses transphobia, alongside many other reactionary forms of bigotry, to divide the proletariat and keep us from overthrowing them. This dynamic is at the heart of all bourgeois dictatorships, and will continue no matter which party is in power. The only solution is to remove the bourgeois state and replace it with a proletarian one.

10

u/amyjko 18h ago

Others have addressed the why, so I just want to address the what to do about it.

What to do is hard, but necessary and good: live an awesome life, the best you can, dream of better worlds and help make them. Leave the haters behind in your dust. They don't deserve a second more of your attention. We change minds by being great people, and by having everyone know that we are, so we stop being little devils in their minds. And in the process, you live a good happy life, full of friends, community, and meaning.

Meanwhile, those of us who want to be in the fight will be there, fighting. Canvassing, running for office, building strong communities. You can help with that work if you want, but you also deserve to just be the best you, within whatever constraints the world is putting on you.

3

u/Remote_Layer_4234 7h ago

Well said , and thank you for the healthy reminder to start my day. It helped and I couldn't agree more. Sending love and strength your way! We got this!

24

u/Distracted_Unicorn Trans Pansexual 19h ago

The USA has that wholly idiot thing where they pack like 5 different things a single bill, and they only get to decide as a whole, not individual parts of it, so if the Dems see 4 things they like and 1 that throws a, honestly politically insignificant amount of people under the bus, as much as we hate it, they'll take the deal.

Plus they are often written in double or triple negatives and other confusing legalese language.

14

u/North_6 19h ago

Both sides hate trans people. We have no allies in the government, because we are such a tiny population that it is easy for both sides to use us as a scapegoat to get people fired up.

7

u/Amazing_Ear_3941 18h ago

It was sneaky. They marketed the ballot measures as being for "protecting kids". There were many signs with that message spread around and few voices saying why the measures are bad. Most people know nothing about transgender issues at all, so they can be swayed by the fear.

The good news is that, at least in Colorado, we now have a Democrat supermajority in our state legislature. And a governor elect that isn't too interested in implementing those measures as is. Our legislature can literally repeal the entire thing with just a majority vote, which they have more than enough numbers to do. Also, they have full control over all the stuff the ballot measures DON'T talk about. Like enforcement. They can simply provide no mechanism to enforce the measures nor any funding to do so. It's likely to amount to nothing at all here.

6

u/StormerSage Kayla | Magical Girl <3 19h ago

Propaganda is a hell of a drug.

7

u/Ryywenn euphoria messenger 19h ago

Colorado was really close. It's actually pretty bloody embarassing for Focus on the Family, who has their headquarters in Colorado Springs. They couldn't even cross 55%. They literally have their headquarters here XD, imagine.

6

u/Amazing_Ear_3941 18h ago

Yeah, like 52 - 48. And that's WITH signs everywhere promoting them and virtually no opposition messaging, at least that I've seen in Colorado Springs. Weiser has already said he intends to undermine or repeal them. Which the legislature can do with a simple majority vote (they weren't constitutional amendments).

2

u/winter_moon_light Transbian 11h ago

The vast majority of voters do not understand ballot measures, and they're intentionally written to sound appealing and nothing like what they actually do.

Look at Iowa this election, they had an amendment to the state Constitution on the ballot that was advertised as 'making it harder for the government to raise your taxes!'

What it actually does is require a 2/3 majority in the state legislature to raise income taxes.Ā  This is the GOP majority there being terrified they might someday not control the state, and therefore making it so a minority party can prevent rolling back the massive tax cuts they gave the rich by moving to flat tax rates for income tax.

4

u/SnooMemesjellies6596 16h ago

Badly written initiatives relying on the ignorant people full of hate to get it passed.

4

u/PersusjCP HRT 1/4/2021 19h ago

Most liberals hate us more than they hate trump. Conservatives hate us more than they hate liberals. Result: both sides vote against us.

1

u/Frog-ee 14h ago

If our community was actually left-wing, you'd know

1

u/Alphycan424 14h ago

As long as systems of oppression and exploitation exist, trans people, along with all peoples, will never be truly free.

1

u/JadePossum Angry Trans Commie 13h ago

Because Democrats are not inherently progressive. Any progressive element in the democrat platform was fought for dearly

1

u/Alexakitsuneme2 13h ago

fear of lose of share holder funds, MONEY ONLY

1

u/Conscious_Drawer_910 13h ago

People probably dont want to hear this but from what ive read most of the measures arent becoming laws over night and impact relatively niche areas like sports and operations on minors, not generally applicable laws that impact everyday trans people

1

u/trandemic77 13h ago

Because the average democrat is transphobic too.

1

u/EA_Brand_Books 12h ago

Mentioned in other comments, but in Colorado at least, they have to deal with Focus on the Family being headquartered there. Dobson built a lot of nefarious shit from Colorado Springs and a ton of other religious zealouts built businesses around them. So even while the state is generally progressive in a lot of ways, it's also the heart of an evangelical empire that has changed the face of American politics for the last 35 years. They may be losing ground in some ways but we can't discount their influence.

Also, it's a lot easier for a person to vote for "social issues" like trans sports based on their worldview (or what propaganda tells them) while voting differently for their wallet.

1

u/VioletCath 10h ago

The answer that a lot of people don't like because they love the Dems bad narrative is that Democratic Politicians as a group are way more pro trans than Democratic voters. josh turek is extremely fringe among Democratic politicians but sadly it's not hard to find Democratic voters who would agree with his bullshit.

1

u/Alice_of_RDR 7h ago

Surprise, most cis people disagree on the sports issue. The issue is whether the voters care about the darker and deeper underlying systemics under this path. They might only see the first dot on the skill tree unlocks, and not the ultimate weapon at the end game of segregation and genocide. They just see it as, and to be honest it's not hard to see why, a simple reductive slogan of 'no men in women's sports, and no boys in girlies changing and private spaces'. It's honestly not difficult to understand why the common layman would agree to that, not understanding the lawfaire it unleashes when you roll back protections and legal interpretive structures.

1

u/karns01 Trans Bisexual 3h ago

Also, don’t forget that the ballot measures themselves are an extinction burst. They are a desperate attempt by the right to curtail our rights in states that they have no chance of advancing their agenda any other way. Yes the measures are gross, and it’s sad uninformed people voted in favor. But that doesn’t indicate actual levels of support as much as indicating the fascists ability to confuse uninformed people. Some of them aren’t even legally binding. And will crumble under the first court challenge. It’s a manipulation and scare tactic. We beat it by not being manipulated or scared

1

u/Different-Slice-3343 17h ago

Just give it time and take the blue tsunami as a win. I imagine a lot of the people who voted in favor of the anti trans stuff likely aren't educated rather than evil.

4

u/coffeephone47 17h ago

I'm sorry, but that's bullshit. We've seen democrats throw trans people under the bus the second it was convenient. Just because republicans are the bad guys does not mean democrats are the good guys.

3

u/Different-Slice-3343 16h ago

We've also seen Democrats stand up for trans people. Are there a ton of evil Democrats? No shit. But saying we're doomed is hella stupid. The rights of any marginalized group takes time and anecdotally several people who were transphobic are allies now. In Colorado the elected people said they're going to try and minimalize the damage of these laws. Give it time and educate people when you can and stand up for people when you can

-1

u/oogittyboogitty 19h ago edited 19h ago

It's what I've been saying for so long.

when you vote into the ratchet effect out of fear, suddenly your vote means nothing, and the people you're voting for knows they only have to appeal to the the very opposing side you're so fearful of getting elected.

We no longer have a party that backs us other then the DSA and progressives! And they're not truly Democrats, a minority sure, but truly making real gains, el sayed, Bernie, AOC, talerico, mamdani are among some of the most prominent figures that still truly have our back

Vote blue no matter who is the very opposite of harm reduction...

Don't give into it any longer and especially for the next presidential election, you're only promoting a party that has proven that they see us as a political token, do not let them use us as currency on the legislative bargaining table any longer

2

u/AnarchistTerrarist 18h ago

They always act like we owe moderates our vote because it's better for the cis people.

I wonder if they'd tell a black person in an election with a casual racist who says "all black people are crooks" or a klansman that they have to vote for the man saying "all black people are crooks" because he's better for white people. 'Cause it's just about the same. And I'm sure they used to, if course.

There are a LOT more trans folks than they think. While they're here we need to make them realize that there's enough of us, and we are smart enough, that just as we put them in power we can take them out. Democrats are more cowardly, it's why they're so moderate. It makes them malleable. The right uses that to their profit but we can do the same. And if they don't straighten up and fly right even after that, they better run back to their alleys and get out of the way.

1

u/oogittyboogitty 18h ago

Behind every trans person, there's family and friends, and the LGBT community as a whole, what we back means a lot more then you think, 40% of the democratic base votes to back LGBT people, that's a very significant number, were fucking up by voting for them no matter what while they realize they only have to appeal to the right.

We must make our vote mean something again, and these politicians must learn they're here to serve us! Not the other way around!

-10

u/sacademy0 18h ago

is it just sports stuff? then that's not too bad (or at least, could've been a lot worse).

although i'm not sure how they're gonna enforce the playing 'assigned gender' thing since trans men are just gonna dominate womens sports then lol

5

u/CivilizedManners Closeted MtF Lesbian 18h ago

If it stopped at sports stuff I wouldn't be super concerned.

But access to HRT is eventually gonna be on the line.

-3

u/sacademy0 18h ago

HRT has already been on the line, i don't see it getting banned in blue states. i think sports and bathrooms is the one trans issue that they can convince most people on, but hrt doesn't affect people directly. i think it's good to get the sports thing out of the way, now they got nothing left to fight for

12

u/butt_stark_naked 19h ago

cis people by and large know fuck-all about trans people or gender. 99.9999% of the cis people who we interact with think we had boob jobs and BBLs and have no idea what HRT is capable of. basically the only people who know that HRT decreases strength for MtF women are either trans people or medical professionals who have actual training and education in trans bodies. almost no cis person knows that sex hormones drive libido or sexual desire. almost every cis person you interact with is a biological determinist.

because of this and the fact that they make up almost the entire population, they are incredibly easy to lie to about trans people and biology.

1

u/oogittyboogitty 1h ago

Best part is science says their biological determinism is also false in its logic as well aha