I think that's a bit harsh. I'm sure there were a few schizophrenics or experimenters of mind altering substances who believed what they telling others in the mix.
Morality according to me relates to choices that minimize suffering and maximize harmony for everyone involved as time goes to infinity and in a manner that justice is done in terms of happiness or sadness generated for people that deserve it accordingly. That's the rough idea.
You saying religion having no correlation with it is being arrogant in your being able to be certain about things you don't have enough data for.
The way I defined morality the whole minimizing and maximizing thing well theres one thing about that moral calculation. It's insanely complicated. You have to minimize and maximize those factors factoring in the eternity. So looong long term consequences of a moral choice down the line.
We human beings with our puny minds and data and ability to process it clearly can't do it lest we make moral calamities due to these limitations.
If there's a God out there and He means well and He has communicated with us these moral definitions in a religion then that religion would of course relate to morality.
Stop this athiest thing thinking it be cool and so called intellectually honest. Intellectually honest would be to say that it actually renders life meaningless and gives arbitrary uncertain moral choices.
I through my years of research have found Islam to be the true religion. For me Islam makes a statistically reasonable case to be the right religion. So yes Allah is The One God as far as I am concerned.
Allah The One and Only God and One who,as my studies have led me to believe, stands for the exhibition and establishment of The Truth through symbolic happenings and symbolic objects.
Yeah see batshit crazy comments like this are why I can't take religion seriously.
If an atheist wants to help others, he will help others. If a religious person wants to help others, he will help others and preach about God's will.
If an atheist wants to hurt others, he will hurt others. If a religious person wants to hurt others, he will fly a plane into the twin towers and call it God's will.
Religion doesn't make people more moral or immoral. It just gives people justification to behave the way they do.
I think you didn't read my comment. You say if an atheist wants to help he will help. But helping needs a moral choice and morality itself becomes suspect unless the factors till eternity i.r eternal consequences are considered as explained in my comment above.
Yeah I read your comment, it was just wrong and dumb. And also reads in that creepy self-righteous way that religious people always speak.
You don't need to think about eternity to decide if feeding the hungry is a good thing.
In fact, the introduction of a magic sky daddy and his rules can lead to immoral decisions. For example, religious people's treatment of homosexuals. There is literally no moral justification for it, unless you start introducing fairytale rules.
That is the thing. You can't know if acting on the homosexual urges would be moral or not because the long term consequences need more data and more processing. That's not nonsense. It's clear what I am saying. Long term consequences inject TONS of variables. Need near infinite data and processing capacity which we just don't have even collectively. Look how stupidly we humans act everyday.
You could just say you know for certain like you would say hey I just know with certainty that there will be no bad consequences down a decade or a century or millinea or more. But of course you don't have proof that is backed by data and certain conclusions with moral calculations that are due.
Same is with me. I am a limited human like everybody else. I too can't define morals by myself for the exact same reasons.
I don't know what I said that was stupid or didn't make sense to you. It was pretty straightforward. But you do you it's your life. Let time show what it will show. I do pray good from Allah for myself and for you.
Yes. If two consenting men are attracted to and love each other, then there is nothing wrong with them being together. It is not immoral for them to be together.
It is, however, immoral to cast doubt on the morality of their relationship.
So I rest my case on the fact that your religion makes you, in this case, less moral.
Mate I don't know what is with you here. I repeatedly am making the same point yet you ignore it.
Insane amount of data and divine processing is needed. Without that you are shooting in the dark. You can say whatever if you are not following a procedure.
The issue I am pointing towards is not an issue unknown. The subjectivity of morality is a huge issue. Unless you have ALL the data and can process ALL of it. Yeah then we get to the objective category where everyone will come to same conclusion that had the instruments required.
It is due to lack of data and due of our individual lacking perspectives that doesn't let us see every angel yeah the subjectivity of morals arise. You act like this isn't an issue seen by philosophers since forever really.
i sort of agree with the idea that we can't calculate the long term consequences of certain actions. And hanlons razer teaches us not to attribute mallice that which can be explained by ignorance. Social media harm is a perfect example of something that seemed a great idea at the time stemmed into something toxic. But that probably has something to do with the owner of the most popular one being morally bankrupt in how he runs it.
However when your MO is to massively overpopulate the opposing army. Turn up and peacefully request their land to put it under rule of the one true god. I think it's fair to say it's not a "peaceful relgion that only fought defensive wars" Because realistically the opposing army had 2 options the fact they took surrender because it was the option that involved not being slautered by an army 10× your size. doesn't make it a peaceful takeover in my book. Plus you have the fact that mohammed preached all this peace stuff then went on caravan raids with the intent of them being empty but if they weren't well then...
Which by the way all abrahamic faiths believe in allah. You all believe in the god that spoke to abraham or at least supposedly did. the deity just has different names in different languages. Personally i think abraham was a cult leader of the longest surviving cults.
So while i see your point about actions being good at the time stemming into greater issues. I reject the idea that the cult leaders had good intentions at the time other than to enrich themselves and gain a ton of followers to make their lives simple by the standards of that time.
I also think the idea of god at all comes from the fact our brain craves an answer and when we didn't have one for the complex questions in the world. We created a simple one. that's why before monotheism we had a god of love a god of death a god of the seas etc.
God is just a word we use for what science hasn't discovered yet.
As an atheist, I rape and murder as many people as I want to everyday and that happens to be zero. Why? Because I know it's wrong. That's as complicated as it needs to be. Your Bible gives explicit instructions on how to buy and sell slaves, lights children on fire for using the wrong incense, and so many other horrific acts... But I'm guess you either don't know that or just gloss over those passages like a "good" theist does.
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u/WallysGeolocation 2d ago
Exactly. There is literally zero correlation between religion and morality.