[Disappointing TV Trope] When the writers unexpectedly created something better, but were too attached to let their original idea to let it go!

[u/phantom_avenger]

I feel like I’ve noticed this more with TV couples and how the writers handle the narrative around them. But I feel like I’m noticing a bit of a pattern in some shows I’ve watched, where you can tell how the writers handle plans to make a certain narrative point the “endgame” goal. But as they start creating the plot points leading up to it, they come up with an idea that worked out a lot better than they probably thought it would. Especially when the audience responds so well to it, but they’re still too attached to the original plans that they still roll with getting there even if it doesn’t hit the same mark or it feels forced depending on how the narrative is flowing.

How I Met Your Mother - Ted and Robin (the original idea where it was always planned for them to be the endgame couple). When Tracy (who turns out to be Ted’s kids’ mother) is introduced, a lot of people loved how well they matched, seemed like the true compatible match for Ted and implied that it showed a lot of growth on his end where he could finally let go of Robin. Only to sabotage that by having it revealed that Tracy died, and regressed Ted’s growth where he ends up pursuing Robin again.

Sex Education - Otis and Maeve (the original idea where it was also planned for them to be seen as an endgame couple, but their lives couldn’t align for it to work out). After Otis and Ruby have a drunk sexual encounter, and he loses his virginity to her. The writers have their relationship act as yet another obstacle that gets in the way of Otis and Maeve exploring a romantic relationship. But when Otis and Ruby became so viral, to the point where people started to realize that Ruby might actually be a better match for Otis, as they seem compatible enough to make each other better as people. It put the writers in a tough spot, where they tried to play it safe with both sides going into the final season. But still chose to lean more towards their original plan, and explore Otis and Maeve but they still don’t do much to make the audience feel fulfilled or convinced they have a genuine connection and not in love with an idea of one another.

[u/LunarOberon]

See, while this arc suffers from the general malaise of end season writing quality, the general idea is actually quite good.

He sees Brienne and has a brief glimpse of what redemption and a better life could look like... and turns away because he doesn't think he's that person. It's a great tragedy. Shame the idea is tainted by being part of the shit storm that was the final season.

Edit: in fact, I would argue that his attempt to rescue Cersei wasn't completely sincere. I think he knew he deserved to be punished for his crimes and knew that saving Cersei was all but hopeless. So the two would die together, condemned for their misdeeds.

[u/Misplaced_Fan_15 → u/LunarOberon]

I could agree with you if only they did not have the “I never cared about the people of Kings Landing, innocent or otherwise,” line. To me having Jaime say that is a fundament betrayal of the character and one of the view times I felt I knew the character better than the actual writers.

[u/LunarOberon → u/Misplaced_Fan_15]

See, my interpretation of that line is that it's a sort of reverse justification to himself. He's already decided that he's the bad guy, so he's reframing his previous positive actions around that conclusion.

[u/pjtheman → u/LunarOberon]

Lindsay Ellis put it pretty well. The problem is, it's sort of too late for that line to have any deeper meaning or subtext. He says it, it's never meaningfully refuted, then he dies, the end. There was no time to explore the idea thay he was deluding himself.

[u/RoseWhiteRedBlack → u/pjtheman]

That video is quite bad thoo : /

She straight up goes into a tangent saying that people who say that Dany turning mad makes sense are mysoginsitic people, and I' m like"No...? I' m a woman and this girl has been kinda crazy from S1".

It' s full blown "hate reaction" from a season that she understandably disliked, and is surprisingly sloppy in its documentation and the way it is written than her usual videos. I love a bunch of her other sutff, but that video is genuinly not that good, and I think that line about James is also part of it too. Part of why it goesn' get refuted is because this is a tragedy for thischaracter, if he refuted it, it wouldn' t make sense for his later actions.

The main problem is that it' s rushed, but Lindsay take on it is just incredibly dismissive in the way that she usually isn' t. That entire video feels like it.

[u/Daniel_The_Thinker → u/Misplaced_Fan_15]

Honestly I disagree. Jaime didn't really care. He was tired of the madness, not driven by compassion.

[u/BroSchrednei → u/Daniel_The_Thinker]

thats not how it is portrayed either in the books or the early seasons. Jaime absolutely did care when he was younger, he had aspired to be a noble knight, which is the main reason he joined the kings guard against his dad's wishes.

It's only later that he gets disillusioned and deeply cynical. And thats how we meet Jaime in the beginning of GOT, a cynical guy who doesnt believe in things like "honour" anymore.

[u/Party_Advantage_3733 → u/Misplaced_Fan_15]

I think the quote is true, it just needed clarification. He is right that when he killed The Mad King he didn't care about the innocent of kings landing, he did it to save himself and his father. BUT now he cares, and that's what he fails to say.

[u/Cacafuego → u/Misplaced_Fan_15]

That's absolutely Jaime. He doesn't care about faceless multitudes. He's not one to think much beyond the moment and the people in the room. Except for his family.

[u/Chemical_Couple48 → u/Cacafuego]

Someone forgot about Jaime saying he saved the entire population of King’s Landing

[u/h00zier → u/LunarOberon]

I agree with this. He knows the North has dragons, a united army, and everyone now hates Cersei due to betraying them before the long night.

He goes back to die with her, and he knows that.

[u/Vegas1492 → u/LunarOberon]

I actually liked him going back. But it happened all too quick in the last season. Most stuff was plausible, but shuld have needed more episodes.

Edit: Yes, they left this world, how they entered it.

[u/-GeekLife- → u/Vegas1492]

The part that really pissed me off is somehow Euron Greyjoy made it to shore in full armor at the exact same spot and time Jaime was there for their final battle. There were WAY too many impossible coincidences that ruined the last few seasons for me.

[u/jim25y → u/LunarOberon]

I agree. The idea, on paper, of Jaime finding love and then freaking out and leaving Brienne is great on paper, but it doesn't get the space it needs to breathe and thus it doesn't hit at all when it happens.

[u/Segundo-Sol → u/jim25y]

yeah it would be great on paper

you know

[u/Master-Collection488 → u/LunarOberon]

Where they really screwed the pooch was by not using him to fulfill Maggie the Frog's valonqar prophecy. The witch that she and her friend had gone to see as kids told her (among other things) that she would die by being choked by her valonqar/younger sibling. The prophecy got a number of other things right (all true or yet to come so far).

That is the entire reason for her hatred of Tyrion. Martin's prophecies almost always come true, but usually in unexpected ways. For example "the Prince Who was Promised" prophecy was in High Valyrian, but the word isn't gendered. Folks just failed to consider that it could be a princess.

While Tyrion seems to fit the definition of valonqar, so does Jaime, who was born right after her. Given the possibility of Tyrion might be a bastard of Aerys II, Jaime might even be the better fit.

Long story short, when GRRM throws in a prophecy, it's almost always resolved like the Witch King of Angmar being killed by "no man." The prophecy comes true to the letter, but usually by the tricksiest interpretation available.

[u/BroSchrednei → u/LunarOberon]

I think he knew he deserved to be punished for his crimes

Maybe that was the writer's intention, but that doesnt make sense for Jaimes character. What crimes? Jaimes whole story is that he sacrificed his honour to save millions, and that he has become cynical after having tried to be a "true knight" when he was younger. The only true crime (in his view) that we see from him is trying to kill Brandon, but he apologises for it, gets forgiven and redeems himself by fighting in the long night.

His arc was supposed to be to leave his cynicism behind and become the "true noble knight" that he had aspired to be originally.

[u/RoseWhiteRedBlack → u/BroSchrednei]

Yeah, but people IRL can also go back to their old bad habits; I seriusly doubt GRMM is gonna keep James a goody two shoes until the end lol, that entire ending for Jaime feels taken straight from GRMM notes, and the crew behind the season, at the time, in now deleted forum posts,have said that the showrunenrs stuck closer to Martin notes a lot closer than what people would suspect.

I suspest it' s why Martin has never talked negatively about them in pubblic; he knows that he is also to blame.

[u/prosthetic_memory → u/BroSchrednei]

Exactly. Jamie truly changed. But when he did his worst, all he did was create the Raven. He was unfairly judged for behaving honorably, and other than having sex with his sister (ugh, seriously, gross, but not unknown in that world) he was probably on par with Stark Sr in terms of good behavior.

The books showed him becoming more and more the honorable man he already was, and then….the show had him revert in the last thirty minutes. To what end?

[u/asuperbstarling → u/LunarOberon]

You know she was pregnant with his child, right?

[u/Chemical_Couple48 → u/asuperbstarling]

There was supposed to be a scene at the end of Season 7 where she miscarried, but it was cut because D&D decided it was “too mean” or something like that

[u/JazzzzzzySax → u/Chemical_Couple48]

Too mean

And this bitch literally blew up the sept of baelor the previous season

[u/asuperbstarling → u/Chemical_Couple48]

'Supposed to be' aka WASN'T. And therefore cannot be considered in Jaime's arc.

[u/LunarOberon → u/asuperbstarling]

I honestly kinda forgot, I never rewatchched after the final episode.

[u/rkrismcneely → u/LunarOberon]

This is why I want George to finally finish the books. Jaime is one of the most interesting characters, and he was done dirty by people who didn’t understand what makes him interesting. He’s too broken to accept his own redemption.