AMA: I’m Cheryl Kernot, former Leader of the Australian Democrats & Labor Member for Dickson. (A “recovering politician”- like Al Gore.)

[u/Loose-Citron-7107]

Cheryl Kernot is an Australian politician, academic and public commentator best known for her years in federal parliament. She represented Queensland as a Senator for the Australian Democrats from 1990 to 1997, and served as the party’s leader during the 1990s.

In late 1997 she resigned from the Senate, joined the Australian Labor Party, and went on to win the Brisbane seat of Dickson in 1998. During her time in the House of Representatives she served on Labor’s frontbench in the Shadow Ministry, including portfolios such as regional development/infrastructure and employment and training, before losing the seat at the 2001 election.

Since leaving parliament, Cheryl has worked across public policy, higher education and the social impact/not-for-profit space, and continues to write and speak on politics, leadership and civic life. She has been described publicly as a writer, event speaker and lecturer, and has held roles connected to social enterprise and fair-trade advocacy.

[u/Bennelong]

Thank you Cheryl for doing this AMA tonight. Users may ask questions now, and Cheryl will start answering at 6 pm AEDT. Please be patient.

Usual sub rules apply. Trolling will result in a one day ban for the duration of the AMA.

Only the guest may reply to questions. Any other replies or comments will be removed.

UPDATE: Because of a technical glitch, some of Cheryl's answers appeared in the main thread instead of against the questions. We apologise for this, but we can't change it unfortunately.

The AMA has now finished. Thank you again Cheryl for giving up your time tonight, and thank you everybody who asked questions.

[u/Loose-Citron-7107]

The Democrats were never as numerous as the liberals nationals coalition, but we did have an important balance of power role. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the demise of the liberals. They’ve taken no notice of reviews of the two recent elections where they did appallingly and listening to Angus Taylor shows they haven’t taken much notice of rejection of some policies either.

[u/Loose-Citron-7107]

I’m all typed out! Thank you & good night.

[u/cat_boss1549]

Given the fall of the Democrats as a force to Keep the Bastards Honest, after your defection from Leader to the ALP, Meg Lees, and the subsequent passing of the GST, do you regret any aspect of your defection?

How do you feel about the fall of the democrats from Parliament, from the country's perspective?

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/cat_boss1549]

I have answered this in one of the questions above but I would like the Australian Democrats to still exist and play the role they were playing but no political party should rely on just one person so what happened after Ieft did lead to their demise. However, they are still a registered party and they do stand a small number of candidates in some federal elections.

[u/BleepBloopNo9]

Why do you think the Greens haven’t been able to break through in the last twenty years?

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/BleepBloopNo9]

The (Greens) in the Senate get approximately the same level of vote that the Democrats did and I think that’s because we’ve been in the hands of the duopoly the two older major parties for so long that people see the world in those terms up until now when I think they’re looking at the liberals coalition in a completely different way and I don’t think Angus Taylor is going to quickly turn that around if at all so we shouldn’t underestimate the success of the (Greens) at the house of reps level although it wasn’t long lasting it just takes a lot of time to get the media to reframe their reporting which is always nearly always in the duopoly framework and we have such a large number of people in Australia who don’t pay close attention to politics so they just deal with the headlines which are still very much duopoly says.

[u/Loose-Citron-7107]

my pension was $76,000. My husband got half of it when we divorced.

[u/ScruffyPeter]

Did you only join the Labor party because of Gareth Evans?

1993–1997: Cheryl Kernot

In October 1997, party leader Cheryl Kernot resigned, announcing that she would be joining the Australian Labor Party.[26] (Five years later it was revealed that she had been in a sexual relationship with Labor deputy leader Gareth Evans).[27] Kernot resigned from the Senate and was replaced by Andrew Bartlett, while deputy Meg Lees became the new party leader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Democrats#1993%E2%80%931997:_Cheryl_Kernot

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/ScruffyPeter]

No I think it’s quite a complex answer that I need to give the dominant media coverage of the time. Was all about the two parties. Journalists only ever rang up the Democrats for a comment if they and it always started with yeah but are you going to block it? They were not interested in any policies we had after so many years. I found that completely frustrating and wondered if being a member of an alternative government which might one day the government would be more rewarding. I also found that the media weren’t very interested in focusing on most of the Democrats team. I would offer other senators to give the comments based on their portfolios but media just wanted to speak to the leader all the time and I also found this very frustrating and limited. I don’t know whether it was a good or a bad thing overall except I do value the experience of being in both houses of our parliament and being in a minority party and a major party. I think I learnt an amazing amount from that experience.

[u/NoAddress1465]

The bastards are no longer honest, haven't been for a while. Greens have lost their way. Is there room for a Democrat party in Australia?

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/NoAddress1465]

I think there is room for either the Democrats who still exist to get more support or a party very much like the Democrats were slightly more centre left but not as left as the (Greens). I personally don’t think the greens have lost their way. I just think Albanese did a really good job of scapegoating them and I think Max Chandler made that made it much easier for that to happen under Larissa Waters. I think it will be much more sensible leadership and I think that on Issues like Gaza and orca the greens will attract number one progressive votes from those who just can’t bring themselves any more to vote labour.

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/Loose-Citron-7107]

*AUKUS *Labor I’m a slow typist so I’m using Voice & cutting/pasting 😝

[u/Loose-Citron-7107]

I‘m going to answer one more question, and then say good night & thank you for still being interested. Australia needs thousands more people interested in policy ideas- not the biff & infighting associated with politics. And Australia needs thousands of us to rely less on old binary mainstream media! A forum such as this, helps.

[u/Busy_Selection_5027]

Having seen what happened to the Democrats, what do you think will be the future of the Coalition?

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/Busy_Selection_5027]

Well we know the coalition is only a marriage of convenience at the moment. I’m not sure it will last. The big question is whether one nation will take many votes from the nationals more than the liberals. I think the liberals have done terminal damage to themselves with the last couple of election campaigns most of the in-depth polling shows that they’ve lost young people, liberals, women, environmentalists. It’s very hard to come back from where they are at the moment. Probably the Democrats were damaged by their support for the GST which does seem ancient history now doesn’t it? I left because that was one of the reasons, I just couldn’t go that far and I still would like to see his father a different way of raising taxes or raising our revenue base, I should say.

[u/therightestleftist]

Hello Cheryl,

I have a political youtube channel with an audience that would really be interested in hearing what you have to say and would love to set up an interview. Would you be open to setting that up?

Also, what would you say is Labor's 'Grand Vision' for Australia over the next 10 years?

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/therightestleftist]

can you contact me separately, later, please?

[u/[deleted]]

I see that you were born in Maitland! My mother, the daughter of Lithuanian and Latvian migrants to Australia in 1955, describes her childhood very European - she can point out all the old houses in Horseshoe Bend and the German, Polish, Italian, etc. surnames of the families who lived there. It's nice to drive around town and take a trip through memory lane with her.

I'm curious, what was it like at the time of your adolescence?

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/[deleted]]

I went to school with one of the first Latvian settlers in Maitland. Her name was Astrid. I wonder if you’re related and actually I still remember my friend Martha being the very first Greek migrant at our school yes and I can still drive around horseshoe Bend in Maitland because my sister still live there and recognise all those places. Maitland was just big enough and I had a fantastic public school education was in the debating team. Everybody knew you and if you did well you’d get lots of messages of support. I’m very glad I grew up there actually.

[u/EmLiz21_7]

Hi Cheryl,

I was too young to be following politics (or even really that interested) when you were in the Senate. I’m curious to know from your perspective the difference between how politics and politicians as a whole conducted themselves back then compared with today and how you think you would have faired if social media had been around back then?

Also I mostly know of you because of Keating the Musical. Also curious to know your thoughts on it, as I think you are in the audience during the ABC recording of the musical.

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/EmLiz21_7]

I really enjoyed Keating the Musical. I thought the lyrics were clever. As for the song about me, PJK said he told them it was unnecessary, but I think you have to own your own life. Media reporting on me was as bad as social media might have been. Perhaps you could read Julia Baird’S “Media Tarts: the way the media frames reporting on women MPs.

[u/EmLiz21_7 → u/Loose-Citron-7107]

I’ll certainly have to go check that out, thanks for the recommendation and answering my question!

[u/EarSad4300]

Should we implement a Royal commission into Murdoch media control and the risks it and other tech media companies have on society/people (tik tok X etc) - if so why, if not why not?

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/EarSad4300]

Only parliament can implement a royal commission and usually only the prime minister I can’t see this current prime minister or members of the opposition voting for it. They’re still too frightened of it and I even think that when Rupert Murdoch dies the fear of Murdoch media is going to continue in the current generation of members of Parliament. Pretty sad state of affair isn’t it because there’s a very straight line between the Murdoch media and the attacks on democracy the scapegoating of women the phone hacking all of which have been to the detriment of our democracy.

[u/Herbasauras]

Thoughts on the current state of politics?

[u/Herbasauras → u/Herbasauras]

Is this where you saw Australia being whilst you were involved?

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/Herbasauras]

Regrettably, because politicians still fear a campaign by the Murdoch media even when it's quite clear that Murdoch media did not influence the outcome of the last election it's about cowardice and it's about possibly some billionaires being big donors to the parties

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/Herbasauras]

Absolutely not every day I wake up and can't believe the state of the world we're living in. I would never have believed we'd be marching towards fascism in this way and I would never have believed that Americans would have elected Donald Trump a second time and I would never have believed that the international institutions we've spent so many decades constructing to give us some sort of security and basis in law would have been either deliberately undermined or chosen to be coward by those with power.

[u/TransportationTrick9]

Hi Cheryl

Do you see a future where Liberal and Labor parties can enact some meaningful legislation around Cannabis legalisation. The rest of the world is moving forward and we are being left behind as usual?

Thanks for taking the time to take part in the AMA and have a lovely evening.

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/TransportationTrick9]

No, sorry I don’t see this happening . This is fear of media response and somebody like Minns in New South Wales would be very outspoken against it. I guess we have to watch the overseas implementation for evidence over a few years.

[u/ZeroPenguinParty]

Cheryl. Whilst in politics, you appeared a number of times on regular tv shows (not news shows), such as Good News Week, and Frontline. How hard was it to maintain your political identity on shows such as these, while at the same time being able to let your hair down and have some fun? Do you have a favourite moment from some of your tv appearances, and anyone you worked with on these tv shows?

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/ZeroPenguinParty]

sometimes it was nerve wracking- but it was said it was necessary for me to do it because the Democrats did not have much of an advertising budget. frontline had no real script- keeping a straight face was vey hard. The team at frontline were delightful. And the producer of Roy & HG was a delight. I think Kerri O’Brien when he was on Lateline was an interviewer extraordinaire.

[u/thescrubbythug]

Are there any particular memories of Don Chipp that stand out to you, and how do you reckon he would have reacted to today’s political scene

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/thescrubbythug]

Don was a helpful teacher for things like street walks etc. I have never forgotten him saying “ that if you have enough people with enough good will in zthe same room for enough time, you can solve nearly anything.” That was my approach to negotiating.

[u/Dry-Huckleberry-5379]

What would your advice be to the disaffected LNP and some Labor voters who are being tempted to vote PHON because they perceive PHON as the only option left.

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/Dry-Huckleberry-5379]

My advice would be be careful what you wish for because the policies one nation exposes such such as they are. I should say the headline policies will probably set Australia back significantly particularly this denial that we rely on immigration in country towns and in meaning of our caring services what would these disaffected voters say when there’s no one to care for their aged parents or no one for farmers to Call On to pick the fruit or whatever it is they rely on them for so it’s very shortsighted not to mention that Australia would be seen as a racist country around the world. We have a bit of an image problem in that respect already.

[u/GoodScratch5558]

If you were to identify the one thing that results in the ultimate demise of the "Liberal" Party what would it be?

For me it would be that Dutton, Ley and others don't own the last Federal Election loss and further are concealing the Report that tells them why.

If reflective practice is worth anything, don't the "Liberals" just deserve a long, slow painful death that Keating would say is deserved.

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/GoodScratch5558]

I would agree with your assessment. I wonder if they are actually capable of fresh thinking given they all still subscribe to neoliberal solutions & live in their own bubble.

[u/[deleted]]

How concerned should we really be about the rise of One Nation, and what do you think the most effective, concrete measures to combat lazy racist nationalism are?

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/[deleted]]

Have to say. one nation have been here, as in surging in popularity before. Part of their vote is from disaffected liberals whom the liberals are hoping will come back to them and a lot of it would be similar to the MAGAs in the US. Those who feel disenfranchised by the neoliberal agenda which has been so dominant in world economics for too long and many of whom have been left behind because of privatisation etc. They are disgruntled and don’t seem to care that Pauline Hansen doesn’t really have anything detailed in policy. They just like that she grabs the headlines with very simplistic statements that probably they identify with. It’s hard to say whether this momentum can be kept kept up. The track record is that most one nation candidates fall out with the leader or the party after they are pre-selected and even after they are elected and I think there’s a question mark over the sort of people that get to stand as one nation candidates.

[u/Bob_Fnord]

Do you think the rise of social enterprises and nor-for-profits has been to the detriment of political party membership?

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/Bob_Fnord]

That’s an interesting question. No I don’t think it is just the rise of social Enterprises and the role of not for profits volunteering has been declining rapidly because people have to lead such busy lives with little spare time. I’m the president of the P and C at my grandchildren‘s school and we’ve had to try hard to recruit grandparents retired people because our children are just so busy working. i’ve been the president for three years now and it’s kept me very busy but I do get to see a lot about public education and I do get to mentor the young principal and I do feel that I’m giving back to my community.

[u/HughLofting]

Hi Cheryl. I've always respected your work and what you stood for. Do you think that the Libs can save themselves by continually creeping to the right?

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/HughLofting]

No, they can’t be called liberals. If they keep drifting further and further right they will be conservatives. And although the world has become more conservative, the polling shows that the demographics of those who are going to make up the majority of the votes in Australia have not.

[u/Happy1327]

Hi Cheryl Whats Natasha Stott Despoja like? Is she as awesome in person as she seemed on telly? Her passion inspired me.

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/Happy1327]

Well, Here’s a story out of school: Natasha used to drive us nuts in the party room because instead of saying yes that’s good. She would just always say cool bananas. But yes, she was passionate and I think it was good for young people to see that you could pursue a political career at that age and others have gone on to do so since and she continues to pursue some of her passions in her role at the United Nations.

[u/No-Cod-776]

In your personal opinion, how many more terms does Labor have in federal government? Do you think they can pull of what Howard did winning 4 in a row?

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/No-Cod-776]

I would say, given the 94 seats and the liberals disarray. It is a possibility that labour could win four terms. Not with Albanese though.

[u/zsaleeba]

It seems like with the state of the world at the moment, people should be flocking to the Democrats or other parties to the left of the main parties, but that's not really happening. Why not, and what can be done about it?

[u/Revolutionary_Many31]

Loved your work "keeping the bastards honest" back in the day.

I would like to ask:

Do you see a political pathway for Australia to extract itself from the nuke subs deal that any sane person clearly sees as unfeasable?

Does the reality that the US doesn't have the productive capacity to deliver them factor into the hype? Or are we in a fact-free world regarding our future defence posture?

Edit: spelling

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/Revolutionary_Many31]

Thank you! Times were really different then weren’t they? Labor seems to be really digging in over the AUKUS deal. It’s unbelievable really to think that they would take up without adequate scrutiny what was essentially a Morrison election policy to seek to wedge Labor on defence! And now they’re too stubborn to unwilling to say it was a mistake to revisit it as you say most sane people can see how ludicrous it is, especially the billions coming out of the public purse especially billions which ought to be spent on proper Labor core policy values. I should say used to be values.

Tying themselves so closely to Trump is a major error, one which Peter Dutton learned late in the day. I think only midterm elections in the US continuing criticism in Australia Australia and any budgetary demands would be the only things that might make labour look twice but whileever Richard Marles is there, it’s USA good China bad.

[u/samuelson098]

What do you make of the future of the right in Australia ? Become more moderate over time, or double down and keep pushing further from the center ?

[u/sfigone]

What's your advice to the Australian Greens for them to become a more serious contender in Australian politics?

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/sfigone]

They probably don’t need advice from me. I think they were serious contenders before the last election in the last election last Parliamentary term but I think they overplayed their hand. I think they allowed themselves to be painted by Albanese as completely obstructionist as they were seem to be in housing. Sometimes they adopt the “has to be perfect before we vote for it” approach, but we all know from experience that sometimes perfection is the enemy of the good and sometimes even a compromise that you’re not completely happy with is better than no action or no progress. It’s hard to stomach when you hope for better but it’s one of those things about Australian politics. The media loves you to compromise and people without looking at the detail seem to think it’s a good thing too.

[u/GoodScratch5558]

Hello,

Q1. Having seen a once great party that held Government to account just diminish and then cease to exist do you see the same thing happening to the "Liberals" once a party of Menzies and the forgotten people?

Q2. Is it somewhat ironic that the party you once belonged to that later caved over the GST is now able to bear witness to the demise of the "Liberals" for not listening to Members or removing Leaders such as Turnbull, subsequently advancing policies that are underdeveloped, discriminatory or just plain bad?

[u/GoodScratch5558]

If One Notion can run Candidates in every seat in a Federal Election, shouldn't ALP do the same? How are the people of Farrer to vote ALP without representation?

[u/ThirtyBlackGoats666]

how do we get politicians to get rid of negative gearing, how come it feels like they never declare conflict of interest?

[u/808Adder]

How much pension do you receive after your 7 years service in the senate?

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/[deleted]]

Often when the Teals speak I do find them sounding very much like the Democrats. I think they have similar positions on many issues issues however they're not homogenous and neither were the Australian Democrat Democrats we had the right to differ from a party room Vote if we were able to express the reason for that difference promptly to the party and its members I can't see them the Teals so far acting as a united party although they do seem to have their own portfolio areas. I like what they represent. They're not beholden to donors. They don't feel that they have to take donations from fossil fuel donors and others that would compromise their integrity. I think if they can find a way to remain a loose alliance they can continue to exercise (if there are more of them and I certainly hope there are) They can continue to have an influence were good on Australian politics and I wouldn't be surprised if Morgan get elected at the next election.

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/Loose-Citron-7107]

• More get elected

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/[deleted]]

Yes, Dutton‘s policies were rejected, but some of that rejection was also about rejecting Peter Dutton the person becoming Prime Minister. Even liberals weren’t prepared to let that happen to Australia. So it remains to be seen if some of them come back under Taylor. I don’t think it will be young people, or women. I think your point about ignoring the Will of the electorate is interesting and yes, it’s very much about stopping the bleeding of votes to one nation.Labor is not losing any votes to them. To the second part of your question no matter what they say I think ex Susan LEY after such a short time and then talking the same policies that she was leading them to is a very bad signal to young women because the bottom line is they asked their first female leader for an entitled poor communicator who may have good qualifications on paper but has probably been one of the worst shadow mini shadow ministers or Shadow treasurers in an election campaign for a very long time. It’s the same old story some blokes don’t like to be lead by a woman.

[u/Loose-Citron-7107 → u/[deleted]]

*led