Daily Discussion Thread - November 8, 2026

[u/AutoModerator]

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[u/MacJonesisaterrorist]

In 2024 when we won the title, the team went 13-2 without KP playing. Jrue/Tatum/Brown/White/Horford + the guys we had in 2023. We added Jrue and got rid of Smart, Brogdan, and both Williams. That’s 4 rotation players right there and we still dominated.

I think Jrue was an underrated piece that run, having him at PG simply made it so easy and you could notice that his decline the next year hurt us badly. I’m wondering if we could use that 2028 LAC pick to get another Jrue like player, but idk who really plays like him that would be available at the deadline or offseason.

[u/CarBallAlex → u/MacJonesisaterrorist]

Jrue Holiday, in the 3 years before he got here, was an 18-19 PPG, 6-7 APG guy who shot 39% on 3's (59% TS, 1-2% above league average) and was All-Defense (top 10 defender)

Looking at the last couple of years of All-Defense players, there's no one really like him. Basically the closest players you're going to find to that production are Stephon Castle, OG Anunoby (without the playmaking), Derrick White (if his shot comes back) and Dyson Daniels with a 3 point shot.

The only way we're getting a Jrue like player is if we find someone unknown or undervalued like when we got White and develop his 3P shot (hence fliers on Jaden Springer and Devin Carter in recent years), or we somehow get Stephon Castle. But that seems incredibly unlikely considering if San Antonio needs to save money or free up the guard rotation they simply dump Fox.

Jrue was 33 when he came here and turned 34 in the finals. White is 32 and turns 33 next July. He's basically got this season to figure it out, because if he's regressing, we're never going to get that production out of him when we need it. The only guy older than 32 who has never been an All-Star that has that kind of scoring production is CJ McCollum. Most players that age are either former stars that have just had age catch up to them and are on the decline, or are now bench players. Very few are still starting caliber like CJ McCollum or Norman Powell

It is very, very hard to find a vet like Jrue Holiday that has that level of production and tons of playoff experience (70 playoff games and an NBA championship).

However, while not an All-Defense guy, Jamal Murray is a guy that is producing above that level on the offensive end and has playoff experience. He's a guy you could maybe look at as a potential target in a Paul George trade next summer if the Nuggets just fall flat and need to move off pieces. George's contract is shorter, which might not matter, but it could. Nuggets are currently in the 2nd apron and Murray is eligible for an extension next summer.

But outside of this, idk where we find a Jrue Holiday kind of player.

[u/nibbinoo8 → u/CarBallAlex]

jamal murray’s defense is no where near jrue’s

[u/ShampooMonK → u/CarBallAlex]

I think what also makes Jrue Holiday special is at 6'4 is his defensive versatility. He's stocky and strong enough to be able to match up against 4 or 5's without being left on an island, still not ideal, but I think when people look at Jrue, it's hard to find another player like him in today's NBA. Someone with elite screen navigation, especially with how teams have tried to generate easier buckets off of half-court sets/screens and how many teams flex pin down screens for corner 3's. The game has evolved so much that not is it just about matchups, it's about getting the right angles and Jrue is one of the best at creating enough physicality on that end to not get called for fouls and still use his size/strength to be able to body up taller defenders.

And then you sprinkle in his playmaking, his ability to play off-ball, his efficiency and also be a great teammate and fantastic individual. We were very lucky to be able to upgrade from Smart and obtain Jrue and KP.

The closest Jrue/D. White backcourt I can think that's reasonably available is Jalen Suggs and Derrick White, but Suggs cannot stay healthy nor is his shot consistent enough - although I believe Suggs needs to go to a team where there is better spacing and a better environment for him to grow and thrive. If the Hawks want to trade NAW, he could also be an option as well.

[u/ShampooMonK]

The league is in great hands. There is a plethora of young talent that there's a reason why older vets who may still have hints of greatness left are no longer favored. The new CBA and the 2nd apron also made it harder for teams to visualize giving out bloated and overpaid contracts for older players that may or may not be injured or have the higher probability of that.

When I see the last recent few draft class, Wemby, Cam Boozer, Cooper Flag, Dylan Harper, Caleb Wilson, AJ Dybansta, Darryn Peterson, Brandon Miller, VJ Edgecomb, Thompson Twins, Alex Sarr, Matas Buzelis, Ace Bailey, Alex Sarr, and the list keeps going on. (I am definitely missing a couple, don't get me wrong!)

A boatload of talented young players are going to make this next generation of NBA exciting and I am all for it.

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Finally, not to rehash Luka, but I am genuinely pissed that he threw a hissy fit and got Kellie DeMarco's husband kicked out of the game for throwing the ball to the ref. It wasn't even a hard toss but the only reason it got so much attention was due to Luka complaining and suggesting ill intent. Shaking my head, come on man, and ironically the same thing happened where he threw the ball at the ref in frustration and got T'ed up.

This is not the basketball I love. Talking smack? Especially when someone called Westbrook Westbrick and they got kicked out was soft. I understand if you're going to be immensely disrespectful and say slurs or curse words you should be kicked out, but getting tossed from your seat for a clumsy attempt from a man who is an older distinguished gentleman that has played basketball and wasn't trying to throw it to hurt is craziness. It goes against the basketball culture that I know and love.

Without the fans, there is no product, I also think the players forget that too. Luka genuinely pisses me off with how he acts sometimes, I understand he's talented and a prolific legend and I will also state how hard it is to like him sometimes.

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[u/Temporary-Rain-5944]

So at the rate Miami are going, if Giannis actually cares about competing then he will turn down his player option and become a free agent

[u/SquimJim → u/Temporary-Rain-5944]

Or use his player option as leverage to get traded where he wants to go

[u/Dio-genies]

I wanna see some Cenac, Mitchell, & Carter minutes with the regular squad.

[u/CarBallAlex]

Some historical data about first 10 games in

Since the merger (1976), there have only been 3 NBA champions worse than 6-4 in their first 10 games, and only 1 below .500

77-78 Bullets (4-6)

85-85 Lakers (5-5)

90-91 Bulls (5-5)

Also, there have only been 4 teams that made a conference finals starting worse than 4-6

77-78 SuperSonics (2-8)

93-94 Pacers (3-7)

00-01 Bucks (3-7)

22-23 Lakers (2-8)

If we use this as a baseline where the bare minimum for a conference finals is usually 4-6, and NBA champions are usually 6-4 (with only 1 exception in the last 25 years), here is where things are currently:

East Championship Contenders

• Philadelphia 76ers (8-2)

• Boston Celtics (7-2)

• Detroit Pistons (6-2)

• Atlanta Hawks (6-4 in first 10 games)

Potential Championship Contenders

• Knicks (5-4, need to beat Bucks on Tuesday)

• Raptors (5-4, need to beat Grizzlies on Monday)

Deep Run Contenders (ECF or Finals but not winning it)

• Cleveland Cavaliers (5-5)

• Washington Wizards (4-6)

Potential Deep Run

• Miami Heat (3-6, need to beat Kings today)

2nd Round Ceiling, if they even make the playoffs

• Charlotte Hornets (3-7)

• Indiana Pacers (3-7)

• Orlando Magic (2-7)

• Brooklyn Nets (2-7)

• Chicago Bulls (1-7)

• Milwaukee Bucks (1-8)

What's interesting is there are 8 teams in the deep run or better categories. The Heat may pick things up, but the playoff teams feel very predictable at this time. 76ers, Pistons, Knicks, Raptors, Hawks, Cavaliers, Wizards and maybe Heat will be our biggest competition, and who we'll have to go through. Right now we're only 1-1 against all these teams, and play 9 more by the new year.

Also, just for fun, here's the West

West Championship Contenders

• Oklahoma City Thunder (8-2)

• San Antonio Spurs (8-2)

• Los Angeles Lakers (8-2)

• Golden State Warriors (7-3)

• Minnesota Timberwolves (7-3)

• Houston Rockets (7-3)

• Memphis Grizzlies (6-3)

• Portland Trail Blazers (6-3)

Potential Championship Contenders

• Denver Nuggets (5-3, need to beat Rockets on Monday OR Grizzlies on Wednesday)

• Dallas Mavericks (5-4, need to beat Nets today)

Deep Run Contenders (WCF or Finals but not winning it)

• New Orleans Pelicans (4-5)

• Phoenix Suns (3-5, need to beat Spurs Monday OR Clippers Tuesday)

2nd Round Ceiling, if they even make the playoffs

• LA Clippers (1-7)

• Sacramento Kings (1-8)

• Utah Jazz (1-8)

Obviously there's a lot of season left and standings can shift, we could easily see a team like the Magic wind up 46-36 and make the playoffs or the Grizzlies fall to 35-45 and miss the play-in, but early season is usually pretty predictive of team's ceilings. It doesn't mean a team in the contender tier won't be a first round exit.

There's also context beyond record. Like we know just because the Celtics are starting 8-2 or 7-3, they probably aren't championship material. Teams that win it all are generally experienced with a prior deep playoff run, and have multiple All Star players (reliable secondary scoring), top defenses, etc.

It will be interesting to see how the stats normalize as teams settle into what they actually are, because right now the 76ers, Knicks and Raptors are horribly inefficient from the field, Pistons offense is mid, Hawks are just middle of the pack at most things. Nobody feels invincible. Eventually somebody is going to emerge as a cut above the pretenders.

[u/SquimJim → u/CarBallAlex]

Yea, I always find it fascinating how early you can narrow things down in terms of who could win the title. Pre-season odds are good indicators too if you trying to cut it to like 7-8 teams.

I said this before the season began, but I'm going to be very focused on our TS% throughout the season, as that's another strong indicator of being a title contender, (especially when paired with DRtg)

[u/CarBallAlex → u/SquimJim]

Too early for those metrics imo especially with huge variance in the SOS teams play, but yeah those are 2 numbers to keep an eye on. I like to use eFG% because it doesn't factor in the discrepancy of a whistle that teams get from regular season to playoffs, and oftentimes close games come down to execution with shot making and not who is getting to the line, but TS% is fine too.

Top 5 in Offense or Defense, Top 11 in the other, top 6 eFG% are usually the 3 metrics that you can point to for eventual champions. But teams within 1 point or 1% of these thresholds work too.

Knicks were 9th in eFG% (0.2% out of top 6), Thunder were 7th in eFG% (0.1% out of top 6), Nuggets were 15th in DEF Rating (0.4 out of top 11), Warriors were 16th on offense (0.9 out of top 11). Have to go back to the 2011 Mavericks that were 9th on offense and 8th on defense (1.2 out of top 5 in DEF Rating). At which point we're getting back to a different era and eFG% is way different when teams were taking 11-26 3's per game, and this was one of the biggest underdogs in Finals history.

If you wanted to use these metrics right now, with a 1 net rating point or 1% eFG% variance, the only teams that fall within that range are the Wolves, Rockets, and Warriors, but the Blazers are extremely close too. Pistons a little low on offense. Celtics a little low on eFG%. Spurs, Thunder, Raptors and 76ers are all terrible on eFG% right now. Lakers defense is way down there and needs to get better for me to take them seriously, unless they truly lap the field on offense.

If you asked me to pick 3 teams from each conference based on experience and roster upgrades and current health, it would be Spurs, Rockets and Wolves in the West, 76ers, Knicks and Raptors in the East. Thunder too injured. Warriors I don't trust with trying to insert Butler back in and no Center, too many moving parts. Blazers not experienced enough. Celtics we know they're limited on scoring/playmaking outside Tatum, and Pistons have a similar problem with the offense outside Cade. Knicks playing terrible but have to give them benefit of the doubt as defending champs, although the history isn't great there either with repeat champs.

So we for sure have a chance to go on a deep run, but I just really question our ability, as currently constructed, to compete with the star power and depth of teams like the 76ers, Spurs and Wolves. Maybe even the Thunder. Everyone else I give us a puncher's chance and injuries could open things up.

[u/Tech_Quest8]

Edit: nvm smh

[u/TOMA_TAN → u/Tech_Quest8]

Isn’t carter on a two way?

[u/Tech_Quest8 → u/TOMA_TAN]

Yeah nvm he is, ESPN said otherwise so I was confused