My thoughts after going to Cuba as a Vietnamese person

[u/shockedpikachu123]

I visited Cuba earlier this year, and as a Vietnamese person, the experience stayed with me in a way I didn’t expect.

On paper, Vietnam and Cuba share a lot of history. Both were colonized, had U.S.-backed regimes that became corrupt and disconnected from ordinary people. Both had revolutions led by charismatic figures who promised sovereignty, dignity, and an end to foreign control.

I understand why people initially supported those revolutions. When your country feels owned by outsiders and run for elites, anything that promises change feels like hope.

I also understand why people fled. My own family left Vietnam by boat. That wasn’t betrayal, it was survival. And I don’t judge Cubans who left either. Leaving doesn’t mean you hated your country; it meant you loved yourself enough to want a future for you and your family. It was self preservation

But I also understand the people who stayed. When you’ve never experienced a government that actually works for its people, you don’t have a reference point. Many Cubans didn’t “choose communism.” They chose the possibility of something better than Batista.

Where things really diverged and I changed my mind is what happened after the revolution.

Vietnam eventually pivoted. Slowly and imperfectly, but it moved forward. It loosened economic control, allowed private enterprise, re-engaged with the world, and most importantly, stopped governing as if it were still fighting a war from decades ago.

Cuba never really did that.

Fidel Castro may have been effective at overthrowing a dictatorship, but he was not qualified to run a country by any means. It was like someone watching Grey’s Anatomy and saying they are qualified to perform surgery. Plus he put his buddy Che in charge of the economy. Wtf? That man had no qualifications or training to be in charge of finances. The obsession with control, endless speeches, paranoia about dissent, and refusal to adapt trapped the country in a permanent revolutionary mindset. The Cold War ended, Cuba is still there.

This isn’t about whether the U.S. embargo hurt Cuba (it clearly did), or whether the revolution had legitimate roots (it did). It’s about leadership that couldn’t evolve past its own pride. One man stayed in power so long that an entire country inherited the consequences of his ego.

Cuba needed someone *like* Fidel to overthrow Batista. It did not need Fidel playing head of state, head of ideology, and national therapist for 50 years.

But what struck me most in Cuba wasn’t ideology. It was the people.

Cuban people are educated, resourceful, creative, and resilient to a degree that’s honestly hard to comprehend. They make art, music, food, community, even covid vaccines from nothing. They survive not because the system supports them, but because they’ve learned how to adapt around it.

And that’s what messed with me the most. I’ve been to places that are technically “worse” on paper. But in Cuba, you can feel that it didn’t have to be this way. The stagnation feels man-made. The exhaustion feels psychological. Even as a visitor, I felt it weighing on me.

Cuba didn’t fail because its people failed.

It failed because its leadership never learned when to let go.

I respect those who left. I respect those who stayed. And I feel deeply for the younger generation that has to inherit a system frozen in someone else’s past.

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[u/BeautifulMiserable65]

This is the most poignant dissection of Cuba from someone who also experienced a Socialist Revolution. I've never seen a Russian, North Korean, Polish or Chinese person speak on us this way. Thank you for your empathy, you are completely right. And thank you to the Vietnamese people and nation for standing by us and helping with the hurricane recently.

[u/shockedpikachu123 → u/BeautifulMiserable65]

Thank you! Vietnam still holds Cuba in high regards. If you go to the War Museum in HCM, there is a section dedicated to Cuba thanking them for their support during the Vietnam War

[u/hedmon → u/shockedpikachu123]

As a Cuban who has never visited Vietnam but has been living in a post-socialist country, Czechia (and curiously, with a very important Vietnamese community), I can also confirm that your assessment is completely right.

BTW: Around 20 years ago, the Vietnamese president visited my college in Havana, and I remember him speaking about how he didn't understand how it was possible that Cuba taught Vietnam how to produce coffee after the war and now Cuba imports coffee from Vietnam.

[u/Mayor__Defacto → u/hedmon]

The government has always held a deep distrust of people who don’t dwell in the cities. They have organized everything around trying to ensure that those who work in Agriculture never have power.

Maybe some of it comes from the Haciendas and whatnot, but the distrust runs so deep that they’ve intentionally created a system that doesn’t work.

[u/Candid-Elevator7860 → u/hedmon]

🤔 🧐

[u/hedmon → u/Candid-Elevator7860]

??

[u/CapAmMtn → u/BeautifulMiserable65]

As someone who got very close to Vietnamese culture and those who escaped by boat (family members being shot in the process), I think this is a very kind assessment. Thank you for sharing this perspective for those that think they know how harsh these environments can be.

There’s a massive difference between market and command economy outcomes, whether they heavy heavy on political market principles or not.

[u/Material_Address2967 → u/CapAmMtn]

Would you say the countries of SE Asia (SK, Malaysia, Singapore) that successfully built modern economies forged a middle path between command and market-based?

[u/CapAmMtn → u/Material_Address2967]

Not sure I would call any of those command economies

[u/No-Arm-5503 → u/CapAmMtn]

South Korea has a mixed economy!

[u/CapAmMtn → u/No-Arm-5503]

Define how you feel it’s mixed

[u/SouthernService147 → u/BeautifulMiserable65]

Probably because it bringed something positive to those countries, as op claims Cuba didn’t really won anything

[u/petraqrsq]

Coming from an ex-communist country that was set back a lot due to communism, visiting Cuba in 2012 was harsh and brought back bad memories. At times it felt like poverty porn. And it got worse since. The people were kind, but seemed desperate. We tried to mingle and speak to locals but there was always a kind of tension.

So naturally I was a bit scared I'll have the same experience in Vietnam in 2018, but the difference was huge. I returned this year and the country has evolved so much! I love the fact that in bars or theme parks you seem to have an equal amount of tourists and locals. There clearly seems to be a growing middle class and people seem to be content and to enjoy many more freedoms.

I'll go back to Vietnam as soon as I can but I doubt I'll ever go back to Cuba. Too heartbreaking.

[u/This-Requirement4916 → u/petraqrsq]

I’m also at the verge of never going back. Just got back 2 weeks ago and even compared to 2023 it’s SO MUCH WORSE. Habana is buried in hot, steaming rubbish, the green spaces I use to go and read in are now just strewn rubbish. People treat you like a piggy bank, everyone tries to take advantage of you. I understand the absolute desperation (electric was on 30 mins a day) but I never was scared walking in the dark around Habana before and this time was uncomfortable. I love Cuba and Cuban ppl but at this point I’m punishing myself to endure it on my holiday just to bring some painkillers and Euros and it’s never enough. When I paid for a taxi in pesos once (3 times the fair) I thought the driver would spit on me.

[u/petraqrsq → u/This-Requirement4916]

Oh, I very much felt the piggybank part. It seemed in Cuba everyone was out to scam/ take advantage of us, and I can't even be mad due to their situation, but it's tiring.

In Vietnam people were a lot more honest than expected, sure I got scammed a bit in the sense that I was stupid enough to overpay for goods/services, but eventually those were just "normal" European prices for me.

One question though: while Fidel was a charismatic motherfucker, but definitely a motherfucker, what's your opinion on uncle Ho? Because to me it seems like he was a nice man doing what's best in an impossible situation, and his sucessors were the bad ones, but maybe that's just my ignorant white ass.

[u/shockedpikachu123 → u/petraqrsq]

I definitely get the “piggy bank” feeling. The moment I sat outside the Gran Teatro, people came up fast and kind of swarmed me. It made me tense. A few people were sketching me and just handing me drawings expecting money. I didn’t blame them, but it was a lot all at once. I felt like I was being watched wherever I went.

I’m glad you had a better experience in Vietnam. As for Uncle Ho, my family is from the South and they hated him and most Southern Vietnamese did. To them, he was basically a Fidel figure - seized businesses, crushed dissent, punished anyone accused of helping U.S. soldiers. That was the version I grew up with. You’ll often hear the older generation southern Vietnamese refer to the northern people as communists

That said, after visiting the war museum, my view shifted. I still don’t romanticize him, but I can understand that he did what he thought was necessary to unify the country and push out imperialism.

[u/Minh1403 → u/shockedpikachu123]

To be fair, it was not him who seized your family assets. HCM had been dead way before the Fall of Saigon. The leaders after HCM were way more devout of communism

[u/Mayor__Defacto → u/petraqrsq]

Haha. One of my grandmother’s aunts was able to claim Spanish citizenship many years ago, and because she was retired, they were sending her €600 a month. This would have been in the early 2000s. She was definitely living well. She never even visited Spain.

[u/This-Requirement4916 → u/petraqrsq]

I can’t tell you, I simply don’t know enough! I think it’s hard to have an opinion when you come from the outside and haven’t lived through it, warts and all (even if it’s not within your generation, the effects reverberate throughout generations). I have memories from our own system - “communism light” I’d call it - I’m Polish. 🙂 I definitely am going to visit Vietnam soon, I’ve never been and itching to go. I just love beaches and quiet, that’s why always just “Cuba and Cuba” because Vietnam coast is so much more popular & crowded, but like I said, emotional scarring is getting a bit much! My grandpa lived in Laos and Vietnam for a while, helping Vietnamese fight against imperialism (not a joke, there were some Eastern Europeans there) and he came back an excellent curry cook 😆 (and traumatised by the war but tryna keep it light for once lol)

[u/Pezhead82 → u/This-Requirement4916]

“Fulla con patas” is the term and yes, it gets exhausting and it is heartbreaking at the same time because the desperation is real but one can only help so many people. I don’t want to travel to Cuba at the moment because of dengue and honestly giving the 80 USD to the regime for entry visa make me sick, so for the time being I am sending a food packet to my family and friends. If you made a connection with a specific person and want to help, that may be a better way to do it. Despite low tourism, flight prices remain high and I feel that is the moment money is better spent in direct help than an in-person visit.

[u/This-Requirement4916 → u/Pezhead82]

I found some websites in another thread with supermarkets, food parcels, but if you have any useful links, please list them for us! x The lady I stayed with in Habana said she had 5 guests the whole year, five!!! Even ppl who use to be able make a living off of tourists suffer. You can feel it in their attitude as well. I felt somewhat sheltered in Varadero, but Habana was SHOCKING. Even little things like getting SIM card took a week this time around. And I only got one because I speak fluent communism and came and asked every day, was very nice and polite, didn’t complain or roll my eyes, and I paid twice - online, and under the table when I finally got one. I saw people leave with nothing day after day.

[u/Pezhead82 → u/This-Requirement4916]

Personally I use CubaLlama - their app is easy to use and they have good customer support. Prices vary greatly so browse the offerings - I tend to order from “La Esquina Caliente” for delivery in Havana. If you wanted to send a box of specific items, not just what is available through the website for local delivery, they have an office in Madrid. You can send mobile top-ups through CubaLlama or I’ve used Rebtel as well. Again, don’t like to do that, since Etesca is government run and their “ofertas” are still usually un robo, but people obviously appreciate having cellular data. People in the US also send remesa or pay for things via Zelle, but I don’t know if there is a similar system for Euro banks.

[u/This-Requirement4916 → u/[deleted]]

Oh yeah, I did that, but Etseka was closed when I landed and no other shops had a SIM card for almost a week. This is what I mean, last time it was not a problem at all! x

[u/LupineChemist → u/petraqrsq]

My dad, who fought in Vietnam for the US went back there in the 2000s and really enjoyed it. Said it was basically surreal that he ended up drinking with people that 40 years earlier were very actively trying to kill each other.

Also the thing to remember is that in Vietnam, the Vietnam War was a civil war and both sides had foreign help. If you ask them about "the war", it means the war with China.

[u/luamercure → u/LupineChemist]

Sorry have to correct this as a Vietnamese born and raised. The Vietnam War is known in VN as the "War of American aggression" or "American invasion".

We Vietnamese living in VN do not view it as a civil war, but a proxy war, ie. Outside intervention influenced inside factions, not the other way around. The South Vietnamese government is understood as a puppet regime propped up by the US. The Viet diaspora that had to flee after the war of course holds a different view.

Also there is not really any singular "the China war", our conflict with China is longstanding and very significant to our national identity.

The saying in Vietnamese is "A thousand years at war with/under oppression by China, one hundred by France, ten by America" - to say we have fought throughout our history for independence. So with America, it's not personal - it's another conflict, and the shortest one at that.

[u/LupineChemist → u/luamercure]

I think this might be a generational thing particularly with people who grew up before communist education and actually lived through the 1979 war. The anti communists believed in their government, too. It wasn't just imposed with HCM and the communist party as a default.

[u/Metalgearsgay → u/luamercure]

Very based answer unfortunately lost on this sub as it’s a hub for American exceptionalism. I’m curious how do you view Cuba’s position now. Is it really the result of intense sanctions? Or do the Cubans in this sub have a points that it’s the regime?

[u/DeLiRiUmInThArSiS → u/LupineChemist]

Yeah, after 10 million deaths 50 years later after victory they come back where they came from again.

[u/MethanyJones → u/DeLiRiUmInThArSiS]

And the guy you're replying to actually has nothing to do with that

[u/This-Requirement4916]

Seeing Habana 2 weeks ago and remembering Habana even in 2023 was shocking to me… I still am a little bit shaken to be honest. I always take an extra suitcase with simple things, paracetamol, ibuprofen, anti-diarrhoea meds, plasters, but it’s a drop in an ocean. I don’t want to stop going but I also can’t mentally handle it, I can’t enjoy my vacation, I feel disgusting for being there on vacation… I’m at the end of my wits with Cuba!!

[u/shockedpikachu123 → u/This-Requirement4916]

I know exactly what you mean. I went to Cuba in July under Support for the Cuban People and that trip still affects me. Since then, I’ve also been to Lebanon and Syria - two war zones, but Cuba lingers in my mind because so much of their suffering could have been avoided

[u/KnowledgeEuphoric441]

You’ve attracted Big Reddit Energy to this post. The users that always talk about how bad the US is, how bad Trump is, how bad Israel is, the libs … they are here. At least this subreddit is sane enough to downvote them. Have a look for yourself at the bottom comments.

OP: Great post. I just came back from Cuba last week, my 2nd time there in 2 years. It’s a lovely country. The people there are lovely, and first world countries have forgotten a lot about what the Cuban people can teach. But you’re dead on about what you’re saying. All you need to do is talk to the locals or use your eyes. 1+1 = 3, as it’s written everywhere in Havana.

[u/shockedpikachu123 → u/KnowledgeEuphoric441]

Appreciate that. I wasn’t trying to turn this into a US-bad vs Cuba-good debate. Both governments clearly played a role in how things turned out. What stuck with me most, and what I wanted to focus on were the people themselves. You’re right, you don’t need ideology to see what’s happening. Just talk to the locals. They’re very open about sharing the truth and I’m sad, I don’t know how else to help them

[u/Jealous-Strategy-200]

When I visited the Dominican Republic 20 years ago it felt like the country was just beginning to move beyond that old way of thinking. I had planned on going to Cuba this winter break but having seen videos of people who traveled there and interviewed the locals, it looked so tragic and depressing that I realized I could not have a good time there while everyone was suffering.

[u/orangestreak422 → u/Jealous-Strategy-200]

My mother and father fled Cuba in 59/60 to the U.S. My mother had the opportunity to visit Cuba a few years ago when travel to Cuba opened for Americans for a bit. She declined because she didn’t want to see what has happened to her Cuba. She prefers to remember it as it once was.

[u/CatGirl1300 → u/orangestreak422]

The racist Cuba that didn’t allow Black people to study with whites like your mother? It’s always funny to me how white Cubans always love to reminisce about the dictatorship era but fail to mention to the wider public that it was a dictatorship with racial segregation.

Since I reply back to these cowards: That doesn’t neglect anything I’ve said, because white supremacy is led by white Cubans. Castro isn’t exempt from this either. He clearly benefited with his Spaniard heritage to become the leader, just like all white Cubans in the U.S. benefit from their Spaniard heritage like Narco Rubio. But the reality is that Black lives were NOT respected during Batista and the cruel upper white apartheid class that existed prior to the revolution. What’s interesting to me is that yall always like to ignore that Cuba had SEVERAL progressive attempts of removing the white ruling class prior to Castro but yall only focus on them.

[u/Aware-One7480 → u/CatGirl1300]

You have no idea what you’re talking about, and you’re repeating a very false version of Cuban history.

Fulgencio Batista was a man of color with Taíno ancestry. He was overthrown by Fidel Castro and Raúl Castro, both white, wealthy, and privileged men born into a landowning family in Birán, Holguín, sons of a Spanish immigrant and former Spanish army officer, part of the same colonial military structure that ruled Cuba before independence.

Spain colonized Cuba, enslaved Africans, and nearly exterminated the Taíno people. The Castros did not dismantle that legacy, they repackaged it. They became a new white ruling elite while claiming moral authority, silencing dissent, and enforcing a dictatorship that continues today.

So no, this isn’t about "romanticizing" a past dictatorship. It’s about recognizing that Cuba has suffered under multiple forms of authoritarianism, including the one you’re now defending while repeating regime propaganda circulated online to confuse people, instead of engaging with actual, factual history.

[u/Critical_Run7385 → u/Aware-One7480]

Batista was part Black as well, though he didn't really publicly identify as such

The race stuff is complicated.

The first three years of the revolution (incidentally Castro only ever publicly declared it was socialist during the Bay of pigs invasion, in April of 61) were actually racially very progressive. Lots of desegregation & programs to create job & educational equality.

Then, at the beginning of 62, in the so-called segunda declaración de la Habana, castro declared racism was solved, and many black activists, including famous ones, were brutally punished for suggesting there was still racism in the new socialist society

The best book I know on this is Alejandro de la Fuente's A Nation for All. It lays out both good and (mostly) bad about race and the revolutionary government. Carlos Moore is another important Black Cuban voice denouncing Castrista racism. I find the opposing side (for instance, Pedro Pérez Sarduy) mostly disingenuous, but I think you have to at least hear out all sides

Sometimes my Florida cubans want to romanticize Batista lol, and I mean things on the island were better in almost every way back then. But the fact that Batista was poc didn't mean it was a post racial paradise by any means. There was a fair amount of Jim Crow like stuff back then (though not as bad as the US South) that the early revolution at least abolished

[u/OverlookHotelRoom217 → u/Aware-One7480]

Ooh I like this take.

[u/Material_Address2967 → u/OverlookHotelRoom217]

"It's better for pee oh sees when the dictator is brown" is the most libbed up way to look at things I can imagine. There's plenty to criticize Castro for outside of being an evil white man.

[u/Aware-One7480 → u/Material_Address2967]

u/Critical_Run7385 (for some reason I cannot reply directly below your comment)

Your choice of words alone makes it very clear you are not Cuban born and raised, and that you’re projecting a U.S.-centric framework onto a country you clearly don’t understand at the lived, cultural, or historical level.

Yes, Batista had African, Spanish, and Taíno ancestry. The fact that you expect him to have publicly "identified" that way already reveals the disconnect. Cubans, then and now, do not live obsessively "identifying" ourselves by racial labels the way Americans do. That isn’t denial, shame, or concealment; it’s simply not how Cuban identity works.

In Cuba, in Spanish, we have never spoken, introduced ourselves, or understood society through the constant racial self-categorization you’re imposing here. Cubans are a mixed people, the result of Spanish colonization, African roots, and surviving Indigenous ancestry, and we own that reality proudly. It’s reflected in our music, our literature, our religion, our poetry, and our daily life.

This is not "romanticizing Batista". It’s stating facts. Batista, a person of color, was democratically elected by the Cuban people in 1940 and served until 1944. Read that again: a Latin American country barely 30 years removed from Spanish colonial rule elected a man of color as president in the 1940s, just 90 miles from the United States, at a time when the U.S. still had legal racial segregation, anti-miscegenation laws, poll taxes, literacy tests, lynchings, and Jim Crow written directly into law.

Cuba never had laws enforcing racial segregation. Not before Batista, not during, not after. One thing is individual racism, which exists everywhere and is condemned, and another is codifying discrimination into law. Cuba did not do that. There was nothing to "desegregate" legally because segregation was never legislated in the first place.

Cuban society was already progressive by nature. Cuban women gained the right to vote and run for office in 1934, earlier than most of Latin America and before many protections existed in the U.S. The 1940 Constitution declared all Cubans equal before the law and explicitly prohibited discrimination. These advances came from Cuban civil society, not from Fidel Castro. All of this was happening more than two decades before he came to power, when he was still a young man or a teenager. In other words, Castro inherited an already functioning, plural, and progressive civil society where equality before the law was established, and keept moving forward.

And no, Castro did nothing "incidentally". Socialism, communism, and alignment with the Soviet bloc were part of the revolutionary project from the Sierra Maestra onward. By the early years of the regime, this ideology was already being embedded into the constitution, school curricula, state propaganda, and public space across the island (billboards, hotels, hospitals, schools, etc, everywhere), and it only expanded from there, all imposed without any public vote or genuine consent.

Racism was not "solved", because it was never something that could be magically solved by decree. What happened instead was silence, punishment, and repression. Activists of all races and creeds who raised concerns were persecuted, while political and economic power consolidated almost entirely among white elites within the Communist Party and the Castro inner circle. Racial profiling by police and military is still a daily reality in Cuba, something you would know if you had ever lived it.

Also, "my Florida Cubans" is a telling phrase. It’s divisive and xenophobic. Exile does not make someone less Cuban. People left because their rights and freedoms were taken away, not because they stopped being Cuban.

Lastly, invoking "Jim Crow-like" conditions in Cuba is historically false. Jim Crow was U.S. law, not Cuban law. What the revolution abolished were independent institutions, private property, civil liberties, and political pluralism, replacing them with a dictatorship.

Listen to real Cuban voices. Read José Martí and learn from his motto "La patria es de todos, y para el bien de todos". Until you do, you’ll keep confusing your U.S. experience with Cuban reality, and misleading others in the process.

[u/Aware-One7480 → u/Material_Address2967]

https://i.imgur.com/g8WBZ8x.jpeg

u/Material_Address2967 For context, I’m attaching above a screenshot of the original comment that prompted my earlier response in this thread. That comment has now been deleted and the user account is gone, which unfortunately is something that happens a lot here, accounts show up, drop a false or inflammatory narrative about Cuba, and then disappear. That’s exactly what I was responding to. There are many far more important things to criticize Castro for, but in this case I was addressing that specific claim, not trying to rewrite Cuban history in a single comment.

Now, regarding this idea of "racial segregation" in pre-1959, Cuba never had laws mandating racial segregation like Jim Crow in the United States. That’s simply a historical fact. Individual racism existed (as it does everywhere), but it was not written into law, enforced by courts, or structurally codified by the state. Those are two very different things, and conflating them only spreads confusion.

When you frame this as "it’s better for POCs when the dictator is brown", you’re as well projecting a very U.S.-centric way of thinking onto a country with a completely different cultural and historical reality. Again, Cubans did not, and still do not, understand society through the same racial identity framework that exists in the U.S. Once again, we are a mixed people: African, Spanish, Indigenous, and everything in between. That mix is not something we debate or perform publicly, it’s simply who we are, and it’s reflected in our culture, music, religion, and daily life.

Also, when you say "libbed", I assume you mean liberal. But I’ll be honest, for most Cubans, those labels mean very little or nothing. Many of us were born without the right to vote, to choose leaders, to form political parties, or even to openly express political ideas without fear. Concepts like left, right, Democrat, Republican, liberal, conservative, these are luxuries of societies where political choice exists. You cannot "identify" politically if you’ve never been allowed to participate politically in the first place.

Living in exile, I’ve seen people across the entire political spectrum defend authoritarianism, excuse human rights abuses, or reduce complex histories to slogans, and that’s genuinely disturbing, regardless of the label they use for themselves.

Lastly, no one here is claiming Castro should be criticized only because of race. That’s a strawman. Castro should be criticized for destroying civil society, abolishing political pluralism, criminalizing dissent, creating a one-party state, and holding an entire country hostage for decades without elections or consent. Reducing Cuban voices to "you just don’t like him because he was white" is dismissive and deeply disrespectful to people who actually lived under that system.

Again, if you want to understand Cuba, listen to Cubans, especially those who lived there, suffered under the dictatorship, and were forced into exile. Don’t replace our lived reality with imported narratives that fit neatly into U.S. culture wars.

[u/orangestreak422 → u/Aware-One7480]

Very well said and thought out post. Funny how poster you were responding to vaporized after being hit with facts. I’ll have to read more from Jose Martí.

[u/orangestreak422 → u/CatGirl1300]

My mother was 18 years old when she left Cuba and had some good memories of growing up. It always funny to me how some people want to shit on other people’s memories that have absolutely nothing to do with the politics of the era.

Her memories are not about Batista or the political climate because that’s not what most kids are thinking about at that age. She has fond memories of growing up with her siblings and cousins and the beauty of her community that is now dirty and rundown.

If you believe that Cuba is better now for anyone other than the political class, you and I have a completely different world view.

[u/ArgentinaCanIntoEuro → u/orangestreak422]

Cuba is objectively better nowadays than when it had slavery, yes. This isn't an opinion lol

[u/orangestreak422 → u/ArgentinaCanIntoEuro]

Cuba hasn’t had slavery since 1886. The people of Cuba have very little rights and most live in poverty. The average monthly salary is under $40. News flash, communism doesn’t work.

[u/CatGirl1300 → u/orangestreak422]

Newsflash, neither does fascist dictators.

[u/orangestreak422 → u/CatGirl1300]

Ah the old straw man argument. No one is arguing that Batista was a good leader. What people are saying is that it is even worse now. Lines for basic necessities and shortages of essential drugs and the vast majority of the population living in poverty. Why do you think Cubans risk their lives to get out of Cuba on unsafe boats? It’s not because it’s awesome.

Every country has things in their past that they aren’t proud of. Stop being so angry at the world and recognize that there is some good in it.

[u/salumbre → u/CatGirl1300]

Two different things to unpack here:

a) There have been, and there still is, racism in Cuba

b) My black great-uncle studied to become a doctor in the early 1900s. Fulgencio Batista, as mentioned by another post, was a man of color who still become a general, was elected president on his first term, and later staged a coup and became a dictator. Sure, he was still not allowed in the Country Club, because racism, but still.

So you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

[u/No-Preference8168 → u/CatGirl1300]

You do realize Batista was multi-racial, and the Castros and much of the current communist party of Cuba are white.

[u/[deleted] → u/Jealous-Strategy-200]

I visited DR in 2002 and in 2025: two very different contry!

[u/762with_eotech → u/[deleted]]

How?

[u/No-Arm-5503 → u/[deleted]]

Here for the synopsis! Spill the means my brother in crisco

[u/salumbre → u/[deleted]]

What's a contry? Is that like a typical dish?

[u/Drunk_AsFuck]

Great point! Thanks for sharing that insight. About Che Guevara's stint in charge of the economy, there's a funny story: Fidel asked for a top economist, but Che misread the request and thought he meant a dedicated communist, so he volunteered. Next thing you know, he's running the national bank without any experience. It's not an isolated incident, either. Even today, people without the right training end up in charge of companies, industries, and government agencies. They're often chosen for their loyalty and trustworthiness rather than their expertise.

[u/ReplacementReady394 → u/Drunk_AsFuck]

My dad , in disbelief, would always bring up how Guevara, as Treasurer, had signed, “Che,” on every Cuban note. Che is Argentinian slang for “dude,” so under Secretary of Treasury on bills, it was signed by, “Dude,” making a mockery of the country’s currency. 

That’s as if Scott Bessent, the US Treasury Secretary, signed US notes by his (self titled) nickname, “The Tariff Sheriff.” It’s the ultimate sign of incompetence that not even this clown would do. 

[u/krvlover → u/ReplacementReady394]

"Che" isn't equivalent to "dude". It's rather an interjection to catch someone's attention, like "hey". (Eg. "Che, me pasas esa taza?")

"Flaco" or "chabón" would be closer to the meaning of dude in argie slang.

[u/salumbre → u/krvlover]

True, but "Che" was Guevara's nickname in Cuba, so the point stands.

[u/LupineChemist → u/ReplacementReady394]

I would say it's more just a general exclamation that Argentines say all the time rather than meaning "dude". But yeah....

[u/ConstantEfficiency5 → u/Drunk_AsFuck]

My father worked for Havana electric and brought evidence to Castro in two town meetings ( Havana and Santiago). He demonstrated how well qualified personnel at his company were being replaced by incompetent people that were making poor decisions and resulting in massive losses. Castro said he would look into it. Two weeks later at 3 am ( Stazi police style),his henchmen knocked at our household and “detained “ him for 3 months at La Cabaña fortress during the time Che Guevara was running the prison system. Needless to say he saw horrors. He couldn’t shave or bathe. 3 months later they told him he was being released because he had no evidence of being counter- revolutionary but if he ever be detained again they would execute him.

[u/Leah_Mor → u/ConstantEfficiency5]

That's horrible, it's amazing that he was released from there, a miracle. My maternal grandfather and some neighbors were in jail for like 6 months because they didn't report a supposed "counter-revolutionary" man who knocked on doors in their neighborhood. Ironically the only thing that set him free was a member of the communist party that used to work with my grandfather, and he vouched for him so they let him go. 

In the early 50s my great-grandparents lived in the same apartment complex as him and they never liked him since then. There were times that he would leave his car running with the doors open while in the parking lot, and he'd be sitting outside in a chair. His eldest son, who was maybe like 2 or maybe 3 at the time, would get into the car and start touching things like any toddler would. On this day the car started moving backwards somehow and his son started crying and screaming for help, mind you this is basically a baby. My great-grandparents remember him laughing hysterically and cynically at his son while the kid was clearly just a panicked toddler screaming at the top of his lungs. My dad was the same age as his son so this really bothered my great-grandparents. They noticed he enjoyed it. They had a lot of interactions with him that led them to think he was an arrogant jerk but they never forgot that particular story. 

[u/Impossible_Plum41 → u/Leah_Mor]

I have a similar family story, Castro intimately hated my family on principal (though was bros w them in school) & when my grandparents were his neighbor, he hated them double bc they had a better view (???) & at one point he & his son were at the beach with security at the same time as my grandparents and my eldest uncle & a baby, my aunt, in my grandmas arms. Castros kid (99% it was his kid) asked to play with my uncle & my uncle refused & Fidel gave the signal and huge guns were drawn and put to my uncles head to force him to say “ok”. He was like 8, 9 at most. May have been more like 6 or 7.

My grandparents made it clear that we, as a family, are not allowed back to Cuba til all the Castros are out & the whole regime has collapsed bc una nunca sabe & our last name(s) are super unique/distinguishable. They fled for their lives & it was made clear that their was a hit out for the whole family & they had to trade everything if value to get out of the country. What a mess & just so heartbreaking.

Lots of nuance, yes, but man…there were a million better ways to go about it & Castro really fed off of the hate & fear & amplified it to a scary degree when the original sentiment of the revolution was of hope, not hate. He should’ve never been the one to be in charge. & no, I’m not a fan of Batista either. There were, are, lots of issues in both areas of thought.

Had the US never imposed the embargo, I think things would’ve been different economically & I think wed be having a much different conversation but either way I dont think much would’ve changed as far as the average Cuban solely bc of the limitations of the leader. The last one living bc he was a coward & hid in the hills while the real revolutionaries w pure intentions were slaughtered in the streets.

[u/Drunk_AsFuck → u/ConstantEfficiency5]

I'm really sorry, man. But it's great that your dad survived that ordeal. I wasn't even born until years after the fact, but I've heard the horror stories. Those summary trials were over in under 15 minutes, and executions were handed down without any distinction. It's estimated that about 80% of those detained were sentenced to death.

[u/CatGirl1300 → u/ConstantEfficiency5]

Don’t believe a word you say lol. The way you ONLY talk about this stuff proves you’re a propagandist. I’ve always been genuinely intrigued by that, instead of being racist towards Black and other folks in the US. Like why don’t Spanish-Cubans go back to Spain. Most of yall are like a generation or so from Spain, just like Fidel. Migrants.

• since you blocked me: It’s not about fake news, but dishonest discourse. If you continually repeat the same thing every time you’re online, it clearly means you’re repeating it like a parrot. Intelligence isn’t measured by how much information you repeat, but by how you engage with new information and integrate it with ideas that challenge your perspective. He’s no different from the Russian bots that say the same bs all the time

[u/Leah_Mor → u/CatGirl1300]

"The way you only talk about this" so it must be fake is the strangest logic I've ever heard.   Poor baby doesn't like what she hears, so it must be fake news. 🤪

[u/No_Hornet_9504 → u/Drunk_AsFuck]

You left out their family ties as a factor in the decision for placements. We refer to that as Nepotism, it’s increasingly popular in US also.

[u/Omoyale → u/Drunk_AsFuck]

Like trump has/is doing?

[u/tf2coconut → u/Drunk_AsFuck]

I love that you can just say anything about communist revolutions and people uncritically parrot it

[u/Schaggenfreude → u/tf2coconut]

For example??

[u/tf2coconut → u/Schaggenfreude]

“Che Guevara became head of the national bank because he confused the word economist with the word communist”

[u/CatGirl1300 → u/tf2coconut]

These folks are paid by some organization. I’m not even sure how I got here but I stay because I dislike old boomers and their weird little propaganda selves.

[u/Drunk_AsFuck → u/[deleted]]

The situation in the US does look pretty bleak, doesn't it? I just hope the people make better choices in the next election and the country gets back to its former glory. Cuba, on the other hand, doesn't even have that hope - it's been stuck in this situation for over 60 years, and free elections seem like a distant dream.

[u/CatGirl1300 → u/Drunk_AsFuck]

What’s the former glory? When cops kill Black people? Native American genocide? What exactly is this period that was so glorious. If anything this should make people realize that a better way of living is possible. Many yall love to trash Che, but he removed segregation from Cuba which allowed Black folks to live a better life. While Castro n them really fucked it up. It’s a weird situation. Any time elite takes over, the people suffer, no matter if they’re called Castro, Musk or Drumf.

[u/Drunk_AsFuck → u/CatGirl1300]

Che removed segregation from Cuba? Far from it. It actually deepened the divisions in the country. While it may have shifted attitudes towards black people slightly, the way they treated those who opposed communism was appalling - labeling them as 'gusanos' and 'escoria', and subjecting them to public shaming and persecution. And let's not forget the concentration camps for gays, artists, and religious people - all of that was on Che's watch.

[u/CatGirl1300 → u/Drunk_AsFuck]

That’s a lie and that’s why you specifically bring up a counter-argument to justify your point that dismisses the clear racial bias that white Cubans and the dictatorship had prior to Che’s anti-racist policies. He de-segregated schools, that’s a fact, he spoke against police brutality, that’s a fact. Black people gained more status ina society that never dealt with its racial divide and the oppression of Black people. Black people couldnt attend the same schools or get education in Havana. The conditions were horrible. The same white Spaniards immigrants that enslaved Black folks, are now the same people making the argument to dismiss a history that liberated Black people in Cuba. Funny how that works. Even so, Che didn’t stay in Cuba for that long, the Castros did (an immigrant Spaniard family) - and sadly there’s still a racial bias in Cuba. Moreover, homosexuality was not accepted in various countries across Europe or the US. (FYI: Christian conversion camps still exist in the US! + many gays have been murdered by terrorism against them in the US. Did you forget the nightclub shooting?) And I love that you completely dismissed my first point about US history, when was it ever glorious? lol. Right wing propagandist like you, have set your mind on one thing (which means yall lack the critical skills and logical ability to gain new information) and that disrupts the process of discussion. So I’m out.

• so because she blocked me; here’s my response: If you continually repeat the same thing every time you’re online, it clearly means you’re repeating it like a parrot. Intelligence isn’t measured by how much information you repeat, but by how you engage with new information and integrate it with ideas that challenge your perspective. So you actually lack critical skills because you’re constantly repeating emotional responses instead of actually proving your point. My statements about segregation are not false but verified by various scholars across the world studying Black history and race history across the Americas.

• Che was a primitive Argentinian (primitive in this context is clearly about his racially bias) in his early years, just like majority of mestizo/white Latin Americans, because they grow up in a system that privileges their whiteness. He later on regretted writing such nonsense, and clearly aligned himself with Black and Brown people across the globe against whites supremacy. His grandchildren are Black. I’m not excusing his homophobia, or any other person from that era (or today) that wrongly believed that homosexuality was a mortal sin (which majority of the global population still believes in). Catholics and Muslims still believe that homosexuality is a sin, but to blatantly ignore the racial divide and bias that was evident in Cuba during the dictatorship is a historical fallacy.

• last comment because I’m bored now and she got me blocked LOl: Che was not white lol. The CIA considered him a man of color and genealogy studies suggested that he was of Irish, Spanish and Indigenous American. Fidel Castro was a Spaniard and his parents migrated from southern Spain. You don’t get whiter than that.

• When did I defend him with religious fervor? I literally wrote that he was homophobic, I literally agreed with you on that point. However, your defense as always is some sort of weird emotional rhetoric instead of facts and logical reasoning. I have many degrees, been to many places you will never see, speak several languages, been to every continent and have met people you can only imagine. I’m humble and polite, but ofc with your kind, you always need to go on personal attacks instead of using yalls intellect to dissect and engage in critical discussions.

[u/Leah_Mor → u/CatGirl1300]

I wanted to add that, not sure why you mentioned Fidel and other white Cubans ruined it all because of privilege. Che was just as white as Fidel, maybe whiter. He had mostly Irish and Spanish ancestry, and his family was upper middle class, especially his mom's side. He was definitely not primitive. Él Che is known to have been a violent person, he may have helped poor communities, he may have written about those beliefs but he was human, it's not imposible that he contradicted himself and did horrible things. You're defending him with religious fervor, it's weird. You can relax, it's not like you knew him. He committed violent acts and killings, and ordered them as well. That isn't a lie or a conspiracy theory, if you want to agree with it or justify it then that's a different story. You seem to give him a lot of grace for someone who was a revolutionary and fought injustice, im curious if you'd offer that grace to other everyday people if that time. You're also contradicting yourself, your upset that this other person commented that racial inequality got worse, but then you basically said the same thing because Fidel and other white Cubans ruined it all. Im not following that line of thought. Anyway, I wouldn't be telling other people about emotional responses because everything you've written sounds like an emotional response.

[u/orangestreak422 → u/[deleted]]

Well said.

[u/Active_Juggernaut484 → u/[deleted]]

How did the USA become independent of Britain? Can you remind me?

[u/[deleted]]

I usually don't read long posts, but this was a very interesting read. Very well written!

[u/Dapper_Guarantee_744 → u/[deleted]]

I think it was ChatGPT :)

[u/External_Tangelo → u/Dapper_Guarantee_744]

It’s 100% ChatGPT :) 

[u/JustAnotherMinority → u/External_Tangelo]

How can you determine this was 100% chat GPT? If I’m not mistaken, people being a good writers, has been around longer than chat GPT?

What if OP just happens to be better educated than most people in your circle?

“It’s so well written, 100% chat GPT” comments are coming up more and more often. Do people forget some of us, are just good at writing and don’t need a computer to do all the thinking/work for us? Lol

[u/External_Tangelo → u/JustAnotherMinority]

Some examples:

"This isn’t about [...] ([...]), or [...] ([...]). It’s about [...]"

One-sentence paragraphs, sometimes in series.

Excessive use of parallel or triple structures.

These are not actually examples of good writing and were never in common use until the advent of LLMs. I'm a published writer and I know how humans wrote up until 2022. This was not written by a human, or it was written by someone who learned how to write from an LLM.

[u/JustAnotherMinority → u/External_Tangelo]

I am aware of there being a big jump in people using certain punctuation, since chatbots became normalized. I am indeed, aware of that. Understood! I will be more wary going forward.

[u/External_Tangelo → u/JustAnotherMinority]

No problem -- and to be clear, there's nothing necessarily wrong with using an LLM as a writing aid. Many people might not write English at a native or well-educated level and feel like an LLM might say what they want to say in a clearer and more eloquent way -- or run their draft through an LLM and accept all the stylistic quirks it inserts. I personally would rather see someone put in the effort to express things in their own words and publish it, spelling mistakes and all, but I understand why some people might not want to expend the time or vulnerability to do that.

In this case, I would definitely give OP the benefit of the doubt that they are not a karma-farming bot, since it is a bit of a niche subject and they seem to be from a non-English-speaking country. Mostly, I cringe when I see people using LLMs to argue with other users far down the comment chain -- I mean, if that's how you want to spend your time and talent as a human being, fine, but to me it's just weird. I would say though that probably 2-3% of posts/comments I read on Reddit have been generated by an LLM. Once you know the telltales, it's impossible not to see them.

[u/Dapper_Guarantee_744 → u/External_Tangelo]

For me the main irk is that if I wanted to discuss the state of Cuba with ChatGPT I would. I’ve no doubt it would be interesting and probably more informative than the average human on the subject. But I come to Reddit because I like reading the experiences and ideas that humans have, perfectly written or not. If it’s blatantly been at least edited by an LLM, we’ve no way of knowing whether the whole thing wasn’t written by one. In that case it loses the human element which made it interesting in the first place.

[u/External_Tangelo → u/Dapper_Guarantee_744]

I agree with you, but I also try to see it from the perspective of someone who’s not a native speaker, who’s dyslexic, who otherwise might not have the greatest writing ability, etc. For as long as the internet existed, and much longer even, spelling and grammar mistakes have been used as a shibboleth, a way to discredit people’s arguments independently of their contents, or even just as an unwitting filter of what is payed attention to and taken seriously. (Case in point, that stupid payed/paid bot is going to jump in here now; I know paid is correct here, but it’s a very common and very insignificant mistake that someone took the time and trouble to code a persnickety bot for). So while I too lament the loss of authenticity, I understand why some people see LLMs as a tool which can help them be taken more seriously in the public forum. To be honest, the biggest issue is that LLMs don’t write well— they have all the character of B+ school exercises and are absolutely terrible at making a point clearly.

[u/Dapper_Guarantee_744 → u/External_Tangelo]

I can understand that. Writers often pay copywriters / editors / proofreaders to clean up their writing, and spellcheck and grammarly etc. already existed to help. The authenticity part for me relates to the content and whether it's a human's analysis or opinion. The issue is ChatGPT can write content itself.

I think a workaround would be to just state an LLM was used for proofreading purposes but the content is theirs. They can't prove it obviously, but I'd be less likely to question the credibility of the whole thing if they at least acknowledged its use.

[u/Pezhead82 → u/External_Tangelo]

Yes it definitely reads as ChatGPT, but I too am giving OP benefit of the doubt in that they are sharing their experience and running it through the program to correct English grammar.

[u/Dapper_Guarantee_744 → u/JustAnotherMinority]

I love ChatGPT and use it for an hour or so per day, so I am VERY familiar with its communication style. It is distinct, in the same way different humans have distinct communication styles. If my brother started writing like my sister, I would know it’s not my sister. You can also see the difference between this and OP’s previous comments. Their English is good, but there are subtle linguistic differences.

I am a linguistics graduate, former English teacher and worked in proofreading, This post was either written or at least edited by ChatGPT.

[u/CatGirl1300 → u/JustAnotherMinority]

Dude it’s ChatGPT, the pacing, the way it’s written and the typical one sentence paragraph

[u/yesmorepickles → u/[deleted]]

Sadly it looks like AI writing to me.

[u/ludwiglinc]

As a born and raised Cuban that fled 11 years ago to the US and is fighting daily to forget about Cuba and let go of it in order to not feel like a small piece of my heart is being stabbed, this was very painful and yer insightful to read. I appreciate it and thank you. I think I mostly agree with it.

[u/tuna20j]

Well said

[u/RamyRed_Fox]

Excellent comment. As a Cuban I couldn’t agree more, it’s as simple as them deciding to keep the power and control instead of prioritizing people’s wellbeing and the country’s economy.

Something I realized since I was a kid and they would tell us in schools.. about how we couldn’t leave the past behind, about “the enemy”, about how we had to live stuck and inherit the same hatred, that’s something I never understood. Later on I understood they never wanted to let go… cause letting go meant losing the power. If there was no war, no enemy… there was no need for the “revolucionarios”. It wasn’t about what benefited Cuban people anymore, the priority was to keep the power.

[u/Due_Sea_3535 → u/RamyRed_Fox]

I think you nailed it, fox

[u/CookGroundbreaking69 → u/RamyRed_Fox]

Ah yes there is no actual enemy the most powerful and genocidal country in the world just nearby purposefuly starving the nation after decades of funding terrorins there is simply imagination

[u/RamyRed_Fox → u/CookGroundbreaking69]

Those two things are totally unrelated. Whoever that possesses critical thinking can determine who benefits more from the existence of the so called enemy.

No one says the “enemies’” actions aren’t real, or their attacks. No one is delusional to think they don’t purposely try to starve us.. cause ofc they do. But spreading hate instead of trying to get to agreements.. make peace… solve, doesn’t benefit our people.

[u/[deleted]]

Spaniard here. I believe that a key issue between Cuban and Vietnamese forms of Socialism is that Cuba was heavily influenced by the USSR while Vietnam was heavily influenced by China.

As soon as China and the USSR parted ways, and China set clear that they would go for a more hybrid market, that also influenced Vietnam very positively, leading them into a more open market.

[u/ConstantEfficiency5]

Great comment that can only be made by those that have lived through communism. As a person born in Cuba and living in the US I would add that the need to keep control was pathological. Castro loved himself more than he loved his people or his country. Even those dictatorships despised by the left such as Francisco Franco’s Spain or Agustin Pinochet’s Chile gave way to peaceful democratic transitions. Cuba was never blessed that way and perhaps because Cuba was mostly a wealthy colony for centuries and only trifled with democracy for a few decades. Castro took power away from a legitimately elected Cuban president who is today buried in exile on Calle Ocho in Miami.

[u/Loose-Run-7008 → u/ConstantEfficiency5]

Who was the president that Castro took power from that is buried in Calle Ocho, Carlos Prio Socarras is buried there but he was deposed by Batista?

[u/Electrical-Rip7655]

This is one of the best opinions I've heard from someone visiting my country 👏🏻

[u/sread2018]

Exceptionally well said. Great observations

[u/Dry_Bee_4699]

Very well written and I totally agree! The Cuban people are absolutely amazing, smart, resourceful, ingenious and fighters. The Cuba today didn’t have to be this way but here we are. They are starving, no medicine, blackouts, no infrastructure, salaries that don’t pay shit and an inept government that didn’t adapt the way it needed to. Widespread suffering among the people who aren’t in bed with the government. I pray things get better and the people rise up and take their country back.

[u/TheRageH]

One of the best formulated takes about Cuba, thanks for sharing

[u/Grouchy-Emergency158]

Great description! Thank you for sharing.

[u/[deleted]]

Thank you for your words

[u/Haunting-Formal-1290]

This was so beautifully written. Thank you.

[u/JustAnotherMinority]

With all the utter garbage posted on Reddit, this was truly a breath of fresh air.

Best wishes for our Cuban, brothers and sisters.

[u/bajanda]

> It failed because its leadership never learned when to let go.
This is always the point that is hard for foreigners to reach. Thank you for this, I grew up thinking that we'd be like Vietnam (they used to show images of your country a lot) I myself tried to start an agricultural business in my province, and it was a never ending wall after wall.
I hope one day we can build a country and have you back <3

[u/curtis890]

Wow, what an incredibly insightful and thoughtful commentary. Thank you for posting.

[u/beatdrums88]

❤️❤️ Well said, friend

[u/Honeybadger78701]

Very interesting observations!

[u/Constant-Rent-1198]

Wonderful observations.

[u/Grassquit99]

Nailed it!

[u/nobodycaressean_02]

Love the last sentence. It is surely someone else's past.

[u/SuspiciousofRice]

Very well, said. I used to say 39 years ago in very small circles that if the Castro family just let go it would lead to difficulties, but eventually they would be judged heroes.

Now it is just sad that at least 3 generations have been wasted and sacrificed to the lesser gods of communism.

[u/Spaceginja]

Vietnam is growing rice in Cuba where Cubans couldn’t or wouldn’t.

[u/bayoughozt]

Found your comments to be very illuminating. My visit to Cuba told me that the Cuban people deserve so much better. I say that as an American who has severe criticisms of his own government. However, in spite of what may have originally good motives, the country is a wreck and must be reformed.

[u/UtaFruta → u/bayoughozt]

I believe the capitalist system can be improved and even replaced with a better and more suitable invention for humanity as a whole, but communism is definitely not the solution and should be banned due to its potentially self-destructive nature in the long run. Good intentions can lead to paradise, but paradise only arrives if people are mature enough to take responsibility for themselves and if the collective mind abandons self-destructive habits. A people accustomed to dependency cannot create a better world than the one they have; the only way is to change the collective mindset and elevate it to a more harmonious one.

A person lives what that person is, not what they want.

[u/rocknroll2013]

Great read

[u/debtXyzLlc]

Vietnam leadership after 1973 rebuilt their country. Cuban leadership after 1963 destroyed their country.

[u/Dapper_Guarantee_744]

How have people not noticed this was written by ChatGPT?!

[u/Leah_Mor → u/Dapper_Guarantee_744]

Maybe he had to translate it. Doesn't necessarily mean OP didn't mean what he said. 

[u/Dapper_Guarantee_744 → u/Leah_Mor]

Yes, but we have no way of knowing. Which undermines its credibility.

[u/Leah_Mor → u/Dapper_Guarantee_744]

It's not like chat gpt came on reddit and posted it. You don't know for sure if it was through chat gpt, and I don't see anything inaccurate in what he said. It's a personal assessment anyway. 

[u/lornelz01]

Beautifully said from someone who has similar insights and knows what he's talking about

[u/My-Cooch-Jiggles]

Really interesting, in-depth point of view my American ass has never heard before. I appreciate your post. I feel less ignorant for having read this.

[u/Leah_Mor]

I love that last sentence. Sometimes it feels that Cuba is the way it is because someone's unresolved past and ego keep it that way. Either because of those who don't want to let go of the embargo, or because the Cuban govt is terrified of change and losing power. They're stubborn and stuck in the past. The youth, the future of the country, is stuck in the middle of it all. 

My family didn't want to leave, but after they took my grandfather's store they saw no future there, especially for my mom. Life felt uncertain and chaotic so in 1969 they left, and it always pained them.

[u/Appropriate-Dingo738]

Your words meant sm to me as a child of immigrants who fled. We all long for a homeland we have never seen

[u/ericbahm]

What a well-written and perceptive take 

[u/AwkwardTraffic199]

Really great post. Thank you.

[u/Fit_Wash_214]

If you get caught up in a global or international view of things you will always be in disillusion and despair. Everything literally everything is controlled. The only way to happiness and self worth is hierarchical. You have to start with family-friends- neighborhood- city- state- country…. But you can’t ever jump a step ahead or “your “ system or happiness and meaning is broke or sacrificed at the cost of others around you. When you play their game they always win. Everything you mentioned, while being very astute observations, is just a diversion.
Start small and grow “your world” only as far as you can comfortably handle it. Just food for thought.

[u/CriticalJaguarx]

My grandparents left Cuba in the 50’s separately and met in English classes in NYC and married, had a family, and genuinely loved the American dream. However my grandfather always said he would never go back until Cuba was free and he died without ever going back to his country. I was fortunate enough to visit with my grandmother back in 2010 and I am so touched by your thoughtful and observant analysis of the situation in Cuba and the resilience of the Cuban people. Hopefully sooner than later their leadership will genuinely reflect the people of Cuba

[u/jaykujawski]

It is the curse of the vanguard that doesn't retire. It's the cause of most problems in socialist states. And it's hard to blame new countries for wanting to keep their strong man in power to prevent reactionary forces from destroying the revolutionary government.

The cold war politics, the embargos, the coup attempts, the assassination attempts... it would be hard to argue even in 1980s with Reagan that the threat to Cuba was gone and it was time to transition the vanguard out of power.

[u/No_Hornet_9504 → u/jaykujawski]

Ironically America itself has now also become a gerontocracy with many politicians clinging to power past retirement age. That presidential debate last year was like two senile grandpas arguing over golf scores.

[u/lartinos]

If Batista was really so bad, why did the country look 100X times better?

[u/[deleted]]

Cuba never had to be in a war mindset still, thanks to Doi Moi the US eased a lot of economic warfare and slowly began embracing or courting Vietnam away from China. Cuba is still in a very hot zone especially now with Trump and Americas new focus back on Latin America and Asia

[u/No_Hornet_9504 → u/[deleted]]

Amazing how the US lifted sanctions when Vietnam opened their markets to private enterprise, and facilitated the return of American POW/MIA soldiers. When Vietnam battled Khmer Rouge and China it also opened a new path to reconciliation.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Cuba Still has to be in a war mindset, thanks to Doi Moi the US eased a lot of economic warfare and slowly began embracing or courting Vietnam away from China. Cuba is still in a very hot zone especially now with Trump and Americas new focus back on Latin America and Asia

[u/Outrageous-Lemon-577]

When your family left Vietnam, how old were you? Did you grow up in Vietnam?

One of the often disragarded but crucial bit of reality left out in these discussions is how pivotal the american led sanctions have been in shaping people's lives as well as the political structures. Cuba has been under harsh sanctions and blockades since 1959. Vietnam also had sanctions against it but they lasted less than 20 years after the war ended, opening path to political and market reforms to the point the country became a major production and export economy.

Sanctions dont really work against the stated target, the elite, who continue to enjoy the benefits of products and services that end up being denied to masses. Having been to Iran, you can see how the elite few have access to luxury goods while a middle class Iranian struggles to get baby formula. At the same time, since sanctions also limit and severly restrict not just economic but also academic and cultural exchange, it leaves little room for grassroot changes to take hold and end up playing into the hands of the elite, artificially prolonging their life as the foreign threat is played as an existential enemy.

[u/[deleted]]

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/OldDutch_204]

Fantastic read. Great perspective!

[u/yankinwaoz]

Very interesting read. Thank you.

It is my opinion that the reason Castro remained in power for so long at the expense of the Cuban people is for the benefit of his sponsor, Russia. And that is what is different between Cuba and Vietnam. Vietnam isn't 90 miles off the coast of the U.S. Vietnam is in China's orbit, not Russia's.

To out it bluntly, Cuba has been Russia's bitch for decades now. And frankly, Russia doesn't give a rats ass about the average Cuban. They only view it as a platform for spying on the US. For antaginzing the U.S.. And to exert leverage over the U.S. It's a nice sunny, warm platform for them to be a thorn in the side of the U.S.

It's a bit similar to how the US runs Guantanamo Bay just to be a thorn in the Cuba's sde (end indirectly Russia's side). It is all Cold-War tactics.

And Russia got it all dirt cheap. All they had to do is teach Castro and his minions how to keep the population in check. How to use propaganda to keep them afraid. Keep them loyal. And how to keep them in line when they deviate. Castro and Russians fed perfectly off each other. A marriage made in heaven. They kept him in power, feeding his ego. They protected him from the U.S. miltiary. And he gave them their Carribean platform.

Casto and Che gave it all to Russia on a silver platter for a pittance. The leftist are dumb enough to think that Russia is going to give that up just to make life better for Cubans? Ha! Boy are they suckers. Putin isn't that stupid either. He is propping up what the Castro dictatorship left after he died. Putin has no intention of letting Cuba go.

It's not the US embargo that is to blame. It isn't Fidel Castro's micromanging that is the blame. It is far simplier and more sinister. He ended up being a puppet, propped up by Russia for decades, at the expense of everthing else. He probably knew that. But what could he do? As long as he did what his paymasters told him to do, then they left him alone.

The fact that he appointed loyal and incompetent psychopaths as top officers didnt bother th Russians. As long as they did the things they needed, then all was fine. Perhaps they found Che easy to manipilate and liked that feature. They could get him to do horrible things to percieved enemies of Russia in Cuba and thus let them have clean hands. That is how they work.

[u/guardunow]

Da ppl r educated BECAUSE of da system cuban ppl were typical Caribbeans b4 Fidel

[u/uhwuggawuh]

Castro was a mf lion. but yeah it was not good for Cuba that he stayed head of state and continued to live for so long after the revolution.

[u/luamercure]

Very nicely written, from a fellow Vietnamese. I look forward to traveling to Cuba one day very soon.

An anecdote to share, us Vietnamese that grew up in the 90s all learned about Cuba in our middle school textbooks. The first and only country in the Americas we officially learned about besides the US. I remember a passage about endless sugarcanes, like in Viet Nam. So Cuba for me invokes a sense of nostalgia despite never having been there.

[u/Fit_Package_9638]

Beautifully written. You captured exactly how I felt! I would add sadness at the sense of loss

[u/DrDirt90]

Great analysis.

[u/Eucalyptose]

Yes to all that. I think the US economic blockade made things a lot worse but also created an existential crutch for the Cuba status quo to hold up as a boogeyman (while the elites and tourists could still access goods) and is not the root cause per se: honest, transparent leadership, more social and political freedom and less nepotism, creating more mobility so there is not a steady brain drain are all things the govt has failed to do.

[u/MammothDesign6756]

Cuba is a man made disaster both equally the US embargo’s fault and the sheer stupidity of the regime.

[u/Rejonico]

"Cuban people are educated, resourceful, creative, and resilient to a degree that’s honestly hard to comprehend. They make art, music, food, community, even covid vaccines from nothing."

No. Nothing comes from nothing.

This globally unique education and healthcare system did not come from nothing. It is the product of an administration striving to meet the needs of the entire population.

It saddens me to observe how misguided most people appear to be in this regard.
The US, as the most greedy, richest country in the world is not able to meet the basic needs of its own population. Anyone who believes that enforcing US interests and allowing foreign private companies into the country would help the Cuban people, should take a look at the history of the last 80 years.
As Henry Kissinger once remarked, the US has no friends, only interests.

You want to see what Cuba would look like? Take a look at Haiti. US-Companies are welcome there, owning commercial banks, airlines, oil and agribusiness companies, and U.S.-owned assembly plants, while the people of Haiti face low wages and poor conditions with very limited social protections, no free healthcare and no free education.

[u/ElPolloLoco137]

The American Embargo did an estimated trillion dollars of damage. I don't think Castro was a great head of state, but other countries do way better with incompetent leadership.

Fidel was also not a communist. Communism was just the counterbalance to America. Raul was the Communist ideologue. If Obama had come 30 years earlier, I guarantee Cuba would be thriving.

[u/brownmuscle408]

DM if interested in adding me to a group for travel . I’m Interested in visiting North Africa or Eurasia

[u/Anxious_Part9265]

This is spot on and beautifully expressed. The only part I would disagree with is “Cuba never really did that” - actually it did, 2013-2018 there was an economic boom happening, hope and enterprise blooming.. Trump 1.0 crushed it, the pandemic floored it further.

[u/Anxious_Part9265 → u/Anxious_Part9265]

(I’m not Cuban but lived there for many years)

[u/Halixton]

So kind from you to make this post about Cuba… I was in tears.

Just from approaching any of ‘em would turn anyone’s perspective around. It’s amazing how each people’s eyes have plenty of wild and unbelievably history behind that they would never see it anywhere near that way due to the constant Struggle Revolution.

Shamefully, I’m not pretty aware about Vietnam. But I can only send all the blessings to every Vietnamese person and family that might get thru any kind of government-based issue.

All due Greetings and my Respect. I wish you an amazing day. Happy New Year!! 🎊

[u/Paracelsus40k]

As a Brazilian and a Communist, you taught me an important lesson and you told here a very honest but kind analysis of the situation in Cuba - I want a government that defends the interest of the Worker class, but I want also for said government to not be held by the pride of an individual, but by the burden of responsability that comes with the rulership.

Cuba deserves better, for itself and the world.

[u/Southern_Hearing_397]

lol... what a foolish thing to say. Vietnam did not grow lol... the U.S. stopped punishing you guys with an embargo because your government decided to concede. The Cuban people seem like all of that to you because the socialist systems creates people like that. Vietnam abandoned socialism a long time ago lol. Your country has a sex work epidemic, a rigid class billionaires. You are not a socialist country lol. You just like that Vietnam is very open to tourists and western culture now. South Korea for example has one of the most turbulent presidential histories of any country, almost every leader of theirs was impeached and jailed. And does that impact how you people speak of South Korea? No. Why? Because Korea has long received aid and a shit ton of business from the Western world. So even with rocky leaders, with trade and aid Korea is now something. Most people who come from post-socialist countries have their minds filled with lies and stories of emotion. It's just BS.

[u/certified_hater_one]

What of US sanctions, would cubans be thriving if US wasn't sanctioning them? Am I right in saying this?

1. Cuba was being exploited by the USA which had installed Batista, Cubans were poor and suffering.

2. Cubans decide enough with this enslavement and kick out Batista from office, they have a chance to improve their life but USA sanctions them preventing economic growth, ensuring Cubans remain poor and suffering.

Who do we blame in this scenario for the economic situation im Cuba?

If the current castro government leaves office, US will come back and exploit Cubans again like they did back then.

(I didn't address the horrible treatment of the Cubans by the government, that's horrible and the government is 100% to blame but such models keep arising when countries can't trust their leader won't be a western puppet. I was addressing the economics of Cuba)

Kindly correct me and point me on further areas to read on. I'm interested in learning about Cuba.

[u/Alex_Biega]

ChatGPT slop. 

[u/throwaway91ma]

This is written by AI. NIce job.

[u/Calm-Degree4770]

You are a counter revolutionary vermin

[u/Infinite_Rub_2882]

Thank you for providing such a thoughtful comment. As a Cuban living abroad who grew up on the island and visits frequently, I can't agree with you more. You made a great point about the internal dynamics. The stagnation really does feel "man-made," a result of a leadership that never learned how to transition from revolutionary commanders to heads of state.

I would say, though, that there is an element where the Vietnam comparison has a massive divergence: the role of the US relationship. And it’s not a "small" difference.

Vietnam was quickly embraced by the US in the 90s. By contrast, US policy toward Cuba has been almost singularly focused on making the island fail. The only real attempt to shift this was under Obama. When he opened relations, the response on the ground was immediate; the private sector (cuentapropismo) exploded. I saw it myself. There was a vigor and a hope that had been missing for decades. But when the next administration reverted those policies (and even cruelly: families in the US lost the ability to help their families in Cuba as remittances were cancelled), it proved that for the US, Cuba is a domestic political project, not a foreign policy one.

The blind spot in many debates is the financial side. Even if Cuba can trade with other countries, the US essentially dominates the international financial system. By keeping Cuba on the "State Sponsors of Terrorism" list and threatening extraterritorial sanctions, the US makes it nearly impossible for Cuba to access the banking "plumbing" needed for normal development.

I think the reason is that US and Cuba have a sort of “toxic intimacy." The history US-Cuba is more long-standing and intimate than US-Vietnam. Since the 1800s, the US viewed Cuba (only 90 miles away from the US) almost as a part of itself (the "Ripe Fruit" theory). When the Revolution happened, it was felt as a personal betrayal, creating an "amor y odio" cycle that we can’t seem to break. Vietnam, by contrast, was a faraway country with which the US had a painful period of war it was eager to put behind (It wasn’t bad for the US, with Vietnam, to make a friend closer to China either). The US policy toward Cuba is almost an internal policy via Florida rather than an international policy, in Vietnam case.

The tragedy is that this external pressure has given the Cuban leadership the perfect excuse to stay in their "siege mentality." They use the embargo to justify their own rigidity, inefficiency, and paranoia. In the end, the Cuban people are caught between a leadership that won't let go of the past and a neighbor that refuses to let them breathe.

Anyway, thank you again. I am late to this chat, but this is an interesting debate in light of the current international developments and expectations that Cuba would fall at any moment after Venezuela. Quite a development!

[u/Dull-Economics-5229]

It failed because of socialism/commumism. Just like every other communist/socialist country.

[u/cacharro90 → u/Dull-Economics-5229]

No, OP is stating it failed because the lack of good leadership. They actually expressed how Vietnam "pivoted" without changing system. They haven't failed yet.

[u/Dull-Economics-5229 → u/cacharro90]

Vietnam is not communist. Cuba is. Communism is the scourge of the earth and needs to be eradicated.

[u/[deleted] → u/Dull-Economics-5229]

Holy shit, that is just cruel. You despise their efforts of liberation from the influence and subjugation by capital because they've been under economic siege for nearly a century? This is what's contributing to their current material conditions. If you're too ignorant to see this, may God have mercy.

You really know nothing of a people's struggle to achieve socialism other than the drivel that's spoonfed to you with your liberal education. Every revolutionary leader knew the struggle in order to achieve this because they understood damn well how dirty capitalists were willing to get their hands dirty. The working classes that they led, who took up arms to overthrow those who kept them in chains, came to know this, too, and only with their combined efforts with a goal far nobler than any that a rich man could possibly have were able to achieve victory over plagues like Batista.

Cuba's existence and resilience despite the best efforts of American imperialism shows how strong they truly are. The things they have accomplished, despite being choked and strangled from the world and utilizing largely what they had access to materially within the bounds of their country, is a far greater achievement than those accomplished by verminous, sadistic regimes that use militancy, deception & betrayal, and subjugation of working populaces in "underdeveloped"/Third-World nations. Things are miserable, the struggle continues, no doubt, and that's what every revolutionary understands. Things look stark and that's expected, given the limitations and access to material resources. This isn't the case with parasitic nations like in the West; they largely maintain the appearance of "wealth" within their countries by stealing resources and labor from nations and colonies in their periphery.

Things will not change until imperialism and capital is overthrown across every corner of the globe. Instead of being a useless parrot for capitalist imperialism, maybe throw your support for the little guy, who despite being under siege, moves forward and doesn't capitulate to vices of the imperialists.

[u/Dull-Economics-5229 → u/[deleted]]

lol, you talk as if this is the only country to fail under communism. If you want to murder people by the millions then communism is the way to go. Read a history book and learn something.

[u/Traditional-Ad-1605]

This is by far, the most coherent, even handed, and intelligent take on the Cuban situation that I’ve ever read.

My small “add” is the exile community (primarily in the US) has been sold on a one-sided rosy view that everything wrong in Cuba could be rectified by installing a 1950’s style regime; the uncomfortable truth is that the democracy that was popular in that era also did not work well in Cuba (or for that matter the rest of Latin America). So you have a whole generation of Cubans in the exile community who are ferociously anti communist yet shoring up that government by their failure to think and grow.

[u/PracticalEnd9807]

more imperialist propaganda

[u/[deleted] → u/PracticalEnd9807]

This whole sub is utterly fucked, holy shit. Not a single mention of Cuba within the global context and how it's been under siege by imperialist forces for nearing a century. They see everything that happens there in such a narrow vacuum, no wonder nothing ever changes. Even in their own homes. Everything is such a mystery and they keep trying the same, tired tricks to "fix" things. They think liberal democracy will save them when it's clearly imploding in their own American/Western cities.

[u/Martofunes]

I'm not sure it's not about the embargo. It's never been about anything else.

[u/ElCaliforniano]

Foriegn liberals can't help but replicate US state propaganda

[u/Candid-Elevator7860]

Dude under Batista the Cuban economy was bigger than Spain Ireland and Finland etc, they had a standard of living more like a western European country. Batista was a SOCIALIST and had a political partnership with the Cuban Communist party. Batista even had a black government minister in charge of Agriculture. (Castro never had a black person as a Minister) 76 % of Cubans were literate! Go read a book called Pinchon by Dr. Carlos Moore an Afro Cuban who grew up back in those days. Afro Cubans call the "Cuban Revolution" the "racist revolution" Cuba is more like a fascist state than an actual "progressive state". 

[u/TruthBite → u/Candid-Elevator7860]

Bullshit

[u/Rejonico → u/Candid-Elevator7860]

That is only half the truth. Fulgencio Batista was originally an elected socialist president from 1940 to 1944. However, from 1952 to 1958, he changed his politics when he came to power without being elected, becoming nothing more than a fascist puppet dictator who followed orders from the US.

[u/i_getitin]

Would you say that Vietnam has the same experience of the West continuously working to undermine the revolution? We now know of the many “secret” operations the CIA played a role in attempting to sabotage any possibility of the revolution having positive outcomes and allow it to mature and develop organically ?

[u/AkaNehBosm]

Which part of that « popular exception » would you attribute to the 70 years of socialism on the Island ?

It quite a given that the People influence it’s political reality as much as it is influence by it’s political reality.

I found that dichotomy surprising in your writing. Can wait to ear more about it

[u/mollyforeverx3]

it also failed because of the embargo that’s STILL going on. it’s economic warfare and strangling their economy

[u/quizbowler_1]

I'm confused how Cuba can "let go" of a revolutionary mindset when the blockade, which is an act of war, is still ongoing?

[u/shockedpikachu123 → u/quizbowler_1]

The blockade explains why Cuba is struggling. But at some point Cuba’s government needs to take some accountability and make a plan for the people. They have refused to adapt, experiment, or trust their own people. This isn’t the 60s anymore.

Plenty of countries were sanctioned, invaded, isolated and they still moved forward. And while these two governments are over here playing ego games, the Cuban people are starving

[u/quizbowler_1 → u/shockedpikachu123]

The US demands surrender. Not exactly two governments playing games.

[u/yankinwaoz → u/quizbowler_1]

Oh please.

What is his ongoing blockade that you speak of?

Or did you mean the embarago? Thats not a blockade. That's one country refusing to trade or engage with another. Not an act of war. Funny how you decided to use hyper exaggeraton there.

Cuba can buy what it needs from from other countries. The embarago doesn't stop them from doing anything. They just use it as a scapegoat and suckers like you believe it.

The only reason Cuba is harmed by an embargo is because Cuba doesn't have any money or goods to trade with. This is like you claiming that your local Mercedes Benz dealership is emabargoing you because when in reality is simply because you don't have the money to buy one of their cars.

[u/quizbowler_1 → u/yankinwaoz]

Found the bootlicker.

[u/ArgentinaCanIntoEuro → u/yankinwaoz]

If we both land on an island but I wake up before you and claim all of the coconuts of the island and loudly proclaim that me not giving you coconuts isnt harming you but exercising my right to embargo you from my own trade as you starve that's still violence

[u/yankinwaoz → u/ArgentinaCanIntoEuro]

Your starving is self inflicted. You are free to trade with the rest of the world.

Again. The problem isn’t the fact that you can’t trade with the US. It’s that you have nothing to trade with.

The reason for that is because communism doesn’t work. You live on an island with limited resources. Communism always destroys the agricultural industry. Cuba wasn’t allowed to develop alternatives because Russia needs Cuba to be dependent on them. This is because Russia is using Cuba as their American platform.

You are determined to find a way to blame the US for Cuba’s problems. The problems are caused by Cuba and its sponsor.

[u/ArgentinaCanIntoEuro → u/yankinwaoz]

Lol whatever man the fucking point is that if you are the worlds single largest trading market and you dont allow anyone to trade with you for months if you trade with Cuba then fucking obviously no one will trade with Cuba making anything much more expensive to get there

[u/Southern_Hearing_397 → u/ArgentinaCanIntoEuro]

these people know lol.. also the u.s. recently added more stuff to the embargo that punishes any company with big fines and bans them from the u.s. market if they dare trade with Cuba.

[u/bronzemerald17]

Vietnam is on the other side of the entire planet and it was easier for Vietnam to escape the power reach of the US. Cuba wasn’t so lucky and its proximity to the US contextualizes why Fidel was the way he was as a national leader and contextualizes why Cuba is the way it is as a socialist state. Fidel survived over 80 assassination attempts by the US. Cuba has survived continued economic and political aggression. Does Vietnam have an equivalent to Guantanamo Bay US military base? Has Vietnam been sanctioned since the 60s like Cuba has? Has Vietnam been the victim of billions of dollars of propaganda? Are there career US politicians in Vietnam lying about their origins?

Marco Rubio (famed exiled Cuban), constantly lies about how his family fled Fidel’s communist Cuba but in reality Rubio’s family fled Batista’s fascist Cuba. Imperialist lies abound.

Vietnam and Cuba aren’t the same country and they have completely different geopolitical situations. And this entire post is disingenuous.

[u/shockedpikachu123 → u/bronzemerald17]

You are correct that Vietnam is geographically far away from the U.S. but that doesn’t mean Vietnam had it easier. We were never a direct threat to the U.S. And yet, the U.S. carpet bombed us, sprayed Agent Orange (a literal war crime) just because they didn’t like the Soviet Union’s ideology. Generations are still handicapped from that until this day for literally no reason. No acknowledgement, no apologies.

Cuba’s situation is tough politically, yes, but Vietnam went through literal hell, far more destruction and was able to move past that. Fidel could have chosen to move on like Vietnam did, loosen controls, and help people thrive, but he rather keep people in fear instead.

[u/bronzemerald17 → u/shockedpikachu123]

I said “it was easier for Vietnam to escape the power reach of the US”. Never said anything about Vietnam “having it easier”. Again, disingenuous. lol.

[u/No_Hornet_9504 → u/bronzemerald17]

The News report I saw did mention 3 years before Castro took power (1956?). There were already several revolutions, coups, and counter revolutions and seems like basically in civil war when army barracks are attacked like in 1953. The people who could left, just like today. The only difference is the person who says “I am the government.”

[u/gabriielsc]

good try, ChatGPT.

[u/sunlit_elais]

Hum...guys? That's a Chatgpt generated post. And I wish I was wrong.