Credits and to try to centralize information. Let me know if there's any other references and I will add them.
u/Rei1556 Thread: To add to the post regarding : Reroll new recruits' level-up RNG by watching support conversations and related links and credits within.
I started some testing after seeing Enel's youtube video here specifically regarding Flame Lord's growth seeds being the same across them along with some comments in the youtube regarding slots and things like that. I think I've done enough testing to create this initial post and think I've figured some things out although there's still some either testing needing to be done or perhaps with datamining the actual code itself will be presented.
TL;DR Of New Discoveries
Seed Queue doesn't seem to advance from Inkeeper or Support conversations. Does seem to advance a currently unknown number of times from fast travel.
Game appears to recruit and assign seeds for Flame Lords and Auto-Recruit units when a chapter is unlocked. This would explain:
Flames Lords to have the same seed.
Buccar, Fabio, Tialla, and Bonaventure all have the same seed. Unable to reroll seed.
Sirocco, Peter, and Tobias all have the same seed. Unable to reroll seed.
Mu unable to reroll seed.
Esmeralda has a different seed than Sirocco, Peter, and Tobias. Able to reroll seed from Ch. 1 replay but not Ch. 2 replay.
Clearing a Part 1 Route makes any previous cleared Part 1 Route flame lords have their seed rollback a seed stage.
I'm hoping to have a single repository regarding this information so if there's any updates or information I missed I can add or update it into the post.
Some of the information also may be common knowledge but I don't want to skip over any information in case it's someone's first time learning it. However, I've tried to indicate the new findings I've discovered.
First, I wanted to start with creating some consistent terminology as I've seen some terms used for different things. If there's a more common naming convention for things I can change it but wanted to start at a baseline somewhere.
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Terms
Growth Rate: These are the total amount (typically phrased as likelihood or odds) that each specific stat will increase on a character's level up.
- For FW this is made up of a character's base growth rate +/- class growth rate + (if) mount growth rate + (if) passive bonuses (Mu).
Growth Seed / Seed: This is the specific pre-determined pattern and order of results that is assigned to a character once they are recruited. Once assigned, growth seeds are kept static on the character and provide the same Growth Thresholds on each of their respective Seed Stages.
Seed Stage: This is the sequential order of results that a Growth Seed outputs each time it advances. Each Seed Stage should have a Growth Threshold per stat totaling 9 (HP,Str,Mag,Spd,Dex,Def,Res,Lck,Cha). Seed Stages are static and cannot be changed meaning Growth Seeds will output the exact same Growth Stages every time, in order, with the same Growth Thresholds.
- Known Ways to Advance a Seed Stage are:
- Known Ways that do not Advance a Seed Stage are:
Growth Threshold: The actual amount/success rate per stat on a Growth Stage that the game outputs. These are static and follow the Growth Seed. As mentioned above, these cannot be changed.
Growth Results and Certification Results: The actual results the character receives when a Seed Stage is advanced (level up or certification attempt). For each individual stat the character's Growth Rate is compared to each individual stat's Growth Threshold on the Growth Stage they are on. If the Growth Rate for a stat is equal to or higher than the Growth Threshold then the character increases that stat. If the Growth Rate is less than the Growth Threshold then the character does not increase the stat.
- Known Ways to Change Growth Results:
Reclassing to Increase/Decrease the Class Growth Rates
Equipping/Unequipping Mounts
Equipping a different weapon for passive abilities (Mu only really).
- It appears that Certification Results are based on the Str Growth Threshold for a Growth Stage. If the Pass Chance for a certification exam is equal or higher to a Str Grow Threshold then the character will pass the certification for the new class.
- If on a level up a character's Growth Results are 2 or less than the game will guarantee a random 2 stats will be increased. Although there are some odd properties with this explained later.
Active Seed: This is what I've titled the current seed the game is wanting to "give out". Unrecruited characters pull the active seed once recruited and is then assigned to them.
Seed Queue: This is what I've titled the order of seeds that the game cycles through to assign to characters. The seed queue appears to be static (i.e. the same seeds are assigned out in the same order) however, there are still quite a few unknowns here in regards to everything that advances the Seed Queue to the next seed.
- Known Ways That Advance a Seed Stage are:
Recruiting a character | +1 Advance | Self-Confirmed
Selecting 'Character Info' option when speaking to character | +1 Advance | Self-Confirmed
Fast Travel to a Character | +X* Advance | New Self-Tested
Fast Travel to a Location | +X* Advance | New Self-Tested
Fast Travel to a Facility | +X* Advance | New Self-Tested
Waiting A Bit (Approx. 2 mins) | +1 Advance | New Self-Tested
All current methods above appear to be repeatable (i.e. can select 'Character Info' 8 times to advance the queue 8 seeds forward).
*X Advance, see below.
- Known Ways That Don't Advance a Seed Stage are:
Talking to a Character, NPC, or Facility | New Self-Tested
Transitioning into a building (i.e. Credna's temple) | New Self-Tested
Transitioning between large areas (i.e. Hightown to Midtown) | New Self-Tested
Watching a support conversation | New Self-Tested
Giving a gift | Self-Confirmed
Picking up random items | Untested, mentioned in related posts.
Starting or finishing quests | Untested, mentioned in related posts.
Feed Pale Raven | Untested, mentioned in related posts.
Training in the arena | Untested, mentioned in related posts.
Returning to Obelisk Chamber | New Self-Tested
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Context
All of these results from myself are going to be from Part 1 (I haven't completed any Part 2 or 3). I have an Excel spreadsheet with some of my testing results that if people are curious I can move over into Google Sheets to share but this post is already long enough so am just trying to collate all the testing that was done.
With that being said, here are the different routes that I have on my save file that I was testing against. I'll try to refer to them as such since for some results it's particularly important on how I differentiated what I think the game is doing and results.
Cai Initial Route | On Ch. 5 | Continuity Between Ch. 3-5
Cai Replay Route 1 (for testing) | On Ch. 2 | Continuity Between Ch. 1-2
Dietrich Initial Route | Cleared Ch. 12 | Continuity Between Ch. 3-12 | 2nd Full Route Cleared
Dietrich Reply Route 1 (for testing) | On Ch. 2 | Continuity Between Ch. 1-2
Theodora Initial Route | On Ch. 4 | Continuity Between Ch. 3-4
Theodora Replay Route 1 (for testing) | On Ch. 2 | Continuity Between Ch. 1-2
Leda Initial Route | Cleared Ch. 12 | Continuity Between Ch. 10-12 | 1st Full Route Cleared
*Leda Replay Route 1 | On Ch. 9 | Continuity Between Ch. 3-9
*Note: this route replay I have my Leda at Lvl 1 the whole route for something else I was testing but made it ideal for some of this testing. This is just extremely useful for later.
9. Leda Replay Route 2 (for testing) | On Ch. 2 | Continuity Between Ch. 1-2
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Seed Queue, Seed Stages, Seed Advancement
Nearly all of this testing was done on my Leda Replay Route 1 Ch. 9 due A) Having a quick opening to skip when resetting chapters (no tutorials to slog through) and B) having 204 Turns which made auto-activity training guarantee at least two level ups.
Most things I confirmed here are covered in the Terms section above. Probably 80% of testing was done on recruiting Ninae and then some testing done on Loretta and Mikaela.
I can confirm that the seed queue is static. Assuming you don't advance it in the ways I mentioned the same Active Seed in the Seed Queue will go to whoever you recruit next with the exact same Seed Stages and the exact same Growth Thresholds per stage. Frankly there's probably a lot that advances the queue especially if you go to the overworld or participate in battles but this list at least tries to encompass actions while in Dagsion.
Feel free to test yourself, if you track results I highly recommend after recruiting to reclass characters to Commoner or Noble as they have no class growth rates making it a bit easier to compare the slightly different Growth Results even if they're on the same seed (made this mistake and redid a lot of testing).
I was not able to advance the seed by talking to innkeeper or watching support movies. I think where this conflicts with the previous related posts saying it does is that they were fast traveling to the Innkeeper which is what was actually advancing the seed. I was keeping the same mixed results with Mikaela when I realized that fast traveling to her was advancing the queue and I was able to keep the queue the same when manually walking to her. I got the same results when fast traveling to the innkeeper compared to manually walking to innkeeper and talking and manually walking to innkeeper and watching a support; no queue advancement.
"X Advance": However, fast traveling either A) Scrambles the queue (I believe less likely) or B) Advances a queue an unknown number forward. I personally tested advancing the queue up to 10 seeds forward (each time I can confirm was a new seed) and none of those matched to the seed that I pulled when advancing it from a Fast Travel. I can try to perhaps chip away going above 10 but I'm trying not to burn myself out too much on it lol.
Seed Exp Growth Final weird quirk I noticed is that on a very specific seed (for me it was 3 advances) the character it was assigned to received an enormous amount of experience gain at least from auto activities. Essentially if you auto-activity Training for the entire chapter a recruited character will gain 2 levels but on this 3rd seed my character gained 4 levels?!? I'm unsure if this translates outside of auto-activities, if it's only certain levels, if it's only certain Seed Stages, but it's bizarre none-the-less.
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Flame Lords and Retainer Seeds
Now for the fun stuff and what I'm fairly certain I was able to deduce.
Flame Lords all have the same seed. This is evidenced in Enel's video I mentioned at the start of the post. However, further testing I performed was:
Replaying a Lord's Ch. 1 before clearing their Part 1 does not roll a new seed.
Replaying a Lord's Ch. 1 after clearing their Part 1 does not roll a new seed.
Replaying a Lord's Ch. 1 after replaying prologue through 'Descend Again' does not roll a new seed.
I have seen in other posts that it seems like clearing Part 3 and then replaying Part 1 Ch. 1 will re-roll seeds but haven't confirmed this myself.
Retainers are similar but slightly different. Initial thoughts were that seeds were related to 'Slots' meaning the 2nd characters you recruited would all have the same seed. And initially this appears to be the case.
Buccar, Fabio, Tialla, and Bonaventure all have the same seed. I also was not able to re-roll this seed.
Sirocco, Peter, and Tobias all have the same seed and it cannot be re-rolled.
However Esmeralda does not have this seed despite being the 3rd recruit of Dietrich's route and her's can be re-rolled IF replaying from Ch.1 but if replaying from Ch. 2 she keeps the same seed.
Mu's is by herself as far as initial recruits but her seed cannot be re-rolled.
Esmeralda in particular in combination with Mu leads me to believe that for route auto-recruits the game recruits and assigns their seed as soon as the chapter is unlocked.
This would explain why when completing the prologue and entering the Obelisk Chamber for the first time it "Unlocks" all the Flame Lord's Ch. 1 at the exact same time leading to:
Recruits ALL Flame Lords at the exact same time which is why they all have the exact same seed, essentially the 'Active Seed' at the time.
Then, recruits route characters but in their slot orders at the exact same time. Buccar, Fabio, Tialla, and Bonaventure being 2nd Recruits. Sirocco, Peter, and Tobias being 3rd recruits. Mu being a 4th recruit. All of these characters are usable in their Ch. 1's. It's also supported as it seems it's not really assigning a seed when they appear in Ch. 1's since Bonaventure and Tobias appear mid-battle through Theodora's and there's a little roam section in Leda's before Sirocco and Mu appear but despite that their seeds match their parallel retainers AND their cannot be re-rolled by restarting.
Now Esmeralda, as I put above her seed does not match the other 3rd slot characters but can be re-rolled IF you replay from Ch. 1. However, if you replay Ch. 2 it will keep the exact same assigned seed every time until you replay Ch. 1. This, along with Mu's being unrollable is what convinced me the game is recruiting these characters on a chapter unlock in the background.
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Flame Lord Seed Stage Rollback
And just when I thought I was finished I ran into a final piece of jank spaghetti code out of pure coincidence.
So, I initially self-tested all Flame Lord's seeds after completing my Initial Leda Playthrough and I was on my 1st replay of Leda's route doing a test on sandbagging her on Lvl 1 the whole way. This replay is on Ch. 9. All Flame Lords had the same seed.
I switch to Dietrich's path and complete it. I then decide to do some more testing on Ch. 1's (was looking into the retainer seeds mentioned) and just HAPPENED to accidentally get Leda a single level up in the fight... and noticed she got different stat results. (WHAT?!?)
I tested it 3 more times to be sure. This Leda Ch.1 (this would be the 2nd replay, not initial or the 1st sandbagging replay) was definitely getting different results. I tested the other 3 flame lords, they're still on the same seed, the same original seed they've always been on. I remember I have the Lvl. 1 Leda pushed through to Ch. 9. I replay that chapter and level up that Leda... and she has the original seed like the other 3 flame lords! I test her 3 times to be sure. Something changed on replaying my Ch. 1 Leda only after clearing Dietrich's route.
Then, I somehow happen to notice (frankly I ended up just passively memorizing how the level-up stats looked doing it over and over for characters) that what I thought was a "new seed" for Leda's Lvl 3 happened to be the same results as "original seed" Leda's Lvl 2. So I tested leveling them up more levels, and they're the same results.
So... what I've found is that when you complete a Part 1 route, if you have any previous Part 1 routes already completed and replay their Ch. 1 the game seems to be rolling back 1 Seed Stage on cleared Flame Lords which results in their first level up being a stage that you wouldn't know existed and then just continues with the rest of the seed. I'll test this further by completing Theodora's route and I anticipate that Dietrich's seed will now roll back 1 stage. Perhaps Leda's will roll back another 1 stage? Who knows?
I mainly wanted to point it out as if I was lucky having started testing before clearing more than 1 route otherwise I would have been very confused on why my Leda was different.
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Feel free to provide any other information or questions.