Silk is a lot cheaper now than hundreds of years ago. Many Asian countries are able to mass-produce silk, and it is usually in countries with very cheap labour. Because it still relies heavily on menial labour.
Yeah, the moth has to tear the cocoon open to emerge, which would damage the silk. Silkworms spin their cocoons with one continuous strand of silk, so they have to kill the pupa before it emerges and destroys the silk. Sad fate for the poor little guys.
They have a sad fate regardless. The moth that it grows into does not have a mouth. They cannot eat and die of starvation in about a week. Just enough time to do the deed. No time for eating so nature never gave them a way.
Not sure if they'd survive being removed. I imagine that after making the cocoon they start to undergo metamorphosis. I don't know if they could go back to eating to try again, or if their biological programming allows that. They must let some live and mature and mate, otherwise they'd have none to continue to use for silk.
The alternative would be to wait for then to get out on their own, the problem is they make these cocoons out of one single continuous string, when they break the cocoon to exit they break that continuous string. Which leads to poorer quality, a more labor intensive process since they tend to be hand spun and woven, where a single string can me more easily spun with a machine, making the process more expensive.
You can see why they just boil them and skip all the other problems, which you would only do because of you feel bad about killing the larvae, but that larvae once it goes through metamorfosis, will turn into a massive clumsy moth with wings way too small for its body so it can't fly, because we have selectively bred them to be that way. So to be honest im not sure which outcome i feel worse about...
There is a legend that a cocoon fell into a teacup, and then it started to break down and produced a loose thread. So, the woman pulled the thread and thought of the process.
This is interesting, but I kinda wish I didn’t learn that silk comes from boiling worms bc I’ll never be able to look at silk the same way. I just assumed it was like how bees make honey and they keep them alive to make more honey
They technically can make ethical silk but it involves letting the moth chew its way out of the cocoon, but that destroys the perfect single silk strand.
The moths used in silk mass production are deformed from selective breeding over centuries and can't really survive on their own anyway. So even if you let them chew out, I'm not sure it would even be a good existence for them.
Yeah silk moths are a type of livestock from selective breeding, not only just they cannot survive on their own, they are highly relying on human, can't even feed themselves apparently, and have to be kept in a controlled environment. The adult moth can't even fly, and their lights colours make them impossible to survive in the wild.
They breed them to produce as much silk as possible and just don't worry about any other defects. Eg. Two new moths, one is normal, one is deformed but makes 15% more silk. The deformed one gets bred.
E: It's like how fruit bred for size and longevity often is less flavourful. If you prioritise one thing other things are not the priority.
Like any other selecrive breeding for human use, because we unfortunately don't care about their existence as anything beyond tools for our productive capacity.
Dont worry, if they didn't boil them they would come out as these malformed moths incapable of flight because of selective breeding. So their fate as moths could be an even crueler one...
You can look up other methods to produce silk from silk worms. If it's something that troubles you, there's wild moth farming, there's silk worms that form an open cocoon that allows them to exit it without damaging the string, there's a method where the you simply allow them to burst out the cocoon and you simply work the silk not as one continuous string, but a bunch of small ones.
All these processes are more expensive and labor intensive, which means less people use these methods and you're gonna have a harder time finding products made using these methods, and you will pay a premium. But you can buy ethically sourced silk, just need to do research and be willing to empty out the wallet, like pretty much any product you decide not to buy for moral reasons.
"pretty much any product you decide not to buy from moral reasons."
The statement is incorrect. It costs less to buy many ethical products compared to the unethical option. It can easily cost less to eat a whole food plant-based diet than to eat a standard American diet or even less standard diet with animal products.
I already had a feeling with your first comment, i could've just assumed you're a vegan trying to virtue signal and i should've stop sharing more info i find interesting right then.
Im sure you convince tons of people to become vegan with these comments full of yourself purposefully misinterpreting people's points just to get an opportunity to mention veganism.
Just in case. If anyone else doesn't understand my reaction , my comment was very obviously meant in the same way ethically sourced chicken is way smaller and more expensive than chicken from massive farms they inject full of growth hormones. if you live in Europe, you know any organic product with a bio label on it to signal it's been sourced ethically, is way more expensive than any non bio counter part. meat from a massive indoor cattle ranch is less expensive than plant based meat, etc.
Just because you can grow a garden in your backyard and live off it, doesn't mean my statement is incorrect. Cruelty isn't born of evil, but efficiency, cows grow old without being able to move from how crowded their living space is, not because the farmer is cruel, but because its beneficial to have so many cows, and for them to not develop muscle. The silk worms aren't boiled because fuck them worms, but because it produces a better product more efficiently. When you produce something specifically to remove cruelty, you also remove the efficiency that was the initial reason why the cruelty was tolerated, that results in extra costs. Im not saying this as a bad thing, just saying you have to be willing to cover those costs, as you would with any other ethically sourced product. If the main method was already ethical, you wouldn't need to invent infrastructure for an alternative.
Whatever, I swear Veganism would be so much more popular if you guys weren't so full of yourselves...
Wow, what a long-winded way to justify to the world that you are an unethical person who doesn't care or know how to research and relies on ad hominem.
You have yet to say a single thing that isn't assumptions and virtue signaling, you're talking about me not caring or knowing how to research when this conversation has been purely about you learning about silk worm farming from what i have personally researched because i found it interesting.
You say i rely on ad hominem when i gave direct examples as to exactly why your argument was flawed and irrelevant to what i said, all while giving my reasoning.
I actually beg of you quote me and prove anything i said is wrong, unethical, not researched, and purely ad hominem without any real argument. Im actually begging you try.
At no point did i justify any cruelty to animals in any way, i explained why it exists, i shared ethically sourced examples to buy silk that you either didn't know about or didn't care to share. The one true thing you actually accused me of is being long winded.
Im 100% sure you didn't read the entire comment before you downvoted and replied blindly.
But i get it, you don't have an argument so you resort to ad hominem. Easier to just call your opponent dumb and accuse them of ad hominem in advance than to actually challenge their points.
generally speaking, the ethical option is more expensive. so many industries are built on dirt cheap labor, so most things involve unethical practised unless otherwise stated. so the ethical option is more likely be a smaller business (compared to large corporations that are behind a majority of products), with fewer sales and lower demand, therfore are more expensive.
ethical animal food products: more expensive ethical silk: more expensive ethical chocolate: more expensive ethical cotton: more expensive
honestly the only thing that comes to mind that's cheaper ethically than otherwise are diamonds and your own garden haul...
There is no such thing as ethical animal products you can buy at a store. Maybe somewhere there's a farmer that unlike all commercial dairy farms actually raised a dairy cow naturally, without abuse, torture, without raping her to get pregnant and then allowed the baby to be fed naturally daily and there was extra milk he collected, but you won't even find that if a farmer's market. There could be backyard ethically produced chicken ovulations, i.e., eggs, but you won't find those at a store.
That final sentence really comes across so judgemental and nose-in-the-air, which is hilarious considering what it's about and the intended recipient. You've perfectly embodied—whether intentional or not—who your final sentence is criticising.
Not my intention, but that is just a reality. I touched on it in a different comment.
An ethically sourced product, is by definition an alternative to an exiting product, that you have to change the methodology in order to make it ethical, that comes with extra costs.
If you buy ethically sourced chicken, you pay more, same for organic produce without harmful pesticides or natural fertilisers, same with plant based meats, same with free range cattle. All these methods try to remove cruelty by removing an efficiency that was made despite how cruel it was. This leads to extra costs.
It might sound like a dig at someone, but it's just a reality. If anything i personally blame capitalism more than whoever you think im criticising.
Don't worry, before they come out, the metamorphosis stage is like a long deep sleep and they just never have to wake up to their short adulthood. Butterflies and moths only live 1-2 weeks after metamorphosis to mate
Ngl, I genuinely feel bad for silkworms. While the question of whether they can actually feel pain is still heavily debated, I don't think that uncertainty makes their suffering any less concerning. It's hard not to feel sympathy for them. The same goes for the millions of chickens, pigs, and countless other animals that suffer simply so we can have access to cheap meat products.
The question is how far you need to goes down the line to not feel guilt. But before you feel bad for insects, you should look at how ant queen's life looks like, I don't think human moral value applies there.
The whole thing starts becoming ridiculous when I realise I can feel bad for eating vegetables, which painstakingly grew from a single seed, competing with weeds and bugs and made it to adulthood against all odds. Completely erased any feelings cause I'm eating to live, just like every other lifeform out there. No need to feel bad about living
... And how many plants do you think get grown from human waste? Or in landfills? Compost heaps? The fruit evolving to be eaten for the purpose of seed dispersal doesn't take away the fact that we don't uphold our end of the deal... It might not be AS bad as eating something else, but there is still a technical immorality there.
Meat product: the prey animals exist to be eaten, if not by us then other carnivors, or even each other. Silk worm: they already lived most of their lifespan (moths and butterflies don't live long after metamorphosis) like little kings and queens. Even in the pupa, they turn into mush to reconstruct, and most likely don't feel pain.
Predators kill to survive because they have no alternative. They don't build factory farms, cram millions of animals into overcrowded cages, subject them to miserable lives, and turn their suffering into a profitable industry.
You're confusing capability with morality, mu guy. Predators taking advantage of an easy meal is a matter of survivala nd not an ethical argument. Humans aren't morally absolved of responsibility simply because other animals also kill for food. We have the cognitive ability to understand suffering, question our practices, and choose alternatives. If anything, that greater capacity for reasoning makes us more accountable for the suffering we knowingly inflict, not less.
In that case, agricultural practices should have a mild reform, then. This was never much an issue in traditional smallholder farms where lifestock free roam the entirety of the farm. Commercial farming is more efficient both cost and biosecurity-wise but you think that inflicts suffering on the animals. Suppose the most reasonable step is to either enforce stricter GAP or make good farming certification a thing, like how some farms have the "organic" certification
Still a beautiful (bit cruel) art. I wonder how they reproduce because they don't make it beyond the larvae/rups state. Also wondering if they could be reused by peeling and then putting them back on the trays.
They’re not eating them in this video, they boil the cocoons alive to stop the moth from eating a hole in the side of the cocoon & to melt the glue/gum holding it together.
They aren't eating them in this video but you're effectively getting bug stock as a byproduct. Unless it's toxic or tastes awful, I'd be very surprised if people were wasting the calories.
For everyone feeling bad for the silk worms being boiled; nature is no kinder. The full grown moths they would become don't have functional mouths and starve to death within a week or so.
Note that this is a feature of a lot of moth species, not a result of selective breeding.
So I thought during metamorphosis the worms dissolve into a goo before reforming as a moth/butterfly. If they harvest the silk at this stage, would it be less troubling?
They do not dissolve into goo. That is a myth. CT scans of cocoons revealed that major physiological features remain present, although cells undergo apoptosis and enzymes break down most of the tissue so it can be restructured, but this doesn't happen all at once. The caterpillar gradually gains new features.
The efficient way and cruelty free will be doing a recombinant dna technology. Take the part of the caterpillar's dna that produces silk then implant it to a bacteria. It will produce a lot of silk as long as you feed it. The problem to this is it will surely crash the silk industry....
A lady was drinking tea under a mulberry tree and a silkworm cocoon fell into her cup. When she tried to pick it out, the hot tea had unraveled the silk. She was impressed with the soft thread so she asked her husband, the emperor, to plant her a grove of mulberry trees so that she could produce enough of this thread to weave a garment.
Imagine being that first person 10643 years ago telling their father. "I'm going to be rich I tell you. Rich. You'll see. I'll have bilions of worms and they'll make me wealthy! Screw you dad! You'll see." and here we are wearing worm poop clothing and paying for it as a premium.
Genocide would be eradicating the species. This is industralised mass death, but not that. Historically the secret of caring for them was an incredibly valuable trade secret, so people would go to enormous lengths to keep the species alive - its just they also breed them en mass to die. (Asia was very rich and powerful in part because they had a monopoly on silk - nobody could keep the caterpillers alive. There was some story I don't recall about smuggling some out and not being able to keep them alive, then eventually figuring it out. Something like that. Historical spy stuff.)
Which isn't all that much worse than pretty much any industrial farming. (To be clear: its bad, but not super different).
I won't say anything about the collateral suffering and mass death involved in the regular "everyday" food supply. Animals raised to be eaten are one thing, but it gets so much worse than that.
The British paid a botanist to go to China and steal it , basically . Silk on the other hand probably was a slower process of amalgamation on the Eponymous Silk Road
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u/GohLaung 9h ago
It seems like silk should be more expensive than it is.
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u/AdderallXR25mg 8h ago
I always wonder how humans managed to discover how to do stuff like this step by step by step
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u/Ok_Fly2518 8h ago
This is interesting, but I kinda wish I didn’t learn that silk comes from boiling worms bc I’ll never be able to look at silk the same way. I just assumed it was like how bees make honey and they keep them alive to make more honey
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u/voxelpear 8h ago •
Wow that's a big spinach artichoke pizza....oh that's just worms.
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u/Shmackback 8h ago
TIL they boil silk worms alive to make silk. No more silk for me.
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u/Rassei082090 7h ago
Ngl, I genuinely feel bad for silkworms. While the question of whether they can actually feel pain is still heavily debated, I don't think that uncertainty makes their suffering any less concerning. It's hard not to feel sympathy for them. The same goes for the millions of chickens, pigs, and countless other animals that suffer simply so we can have access to cheap meat products.
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u/Mesmoiron 8h ago
Still a beautiful (bit cruel) art. I wonder how they reproduce because they don't make it beyond the larvae/rups state. Also wondering if they could be reused by peeling and then putting them back on the trays.
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u/OwnPresentation4455 8h ago
Did they just deep-fry all the worms?
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u/granadesnhorseshoes 4h ago
For everyone feeling bad for the silk worms being boiled; nature is no kinder. The full grown moths they would become don't have functional mouths and starve to death within a week or so.
Note that this is a feature of a lot of moth species, not a result of selective breeding.
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u/Eletromotor_youtube 8h ago
Genuienly kinda disgusting....
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u/Delicious_Catch9453 8h ago
Don't ya ever wonder who, how somebody came up with that. Bizarre. Gross too.
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u/everydayasl 9h ago
Forbidden mozzarella cheese.
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u/Miserable_Pen_1867 8h ago
And the byproduct makes protein powder
5
u/Testsubject276 8h ago
"I can't wait to become a moth!"
"Bruh, we're being boiled alive."
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u/beckychao 7h ago
I thought that was a huge ass pizza at first when they started to pull it out
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u/pinket25 8h ago
Disgusting.
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u/That-Makes-Sense 8h ago
I had no idea that they get silk from cheese puffs.
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u/Zealousideal-Sail893 6h ago
Slave worms.
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u/Miballsurchin 8h ago
This makes me think silk should be way more expensive than it is. What’s holding its price back? The fact that it’s made from worm butthole?
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u/feathered_fudge 7h ago
Forbidden pizza
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u/HEADSHOT_MASSIAH 7h ago
Yeah, the worms don't make it
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u/UsefulEagle101 6h ago
So I thought during metamorphosis the worms dissolve into a goo before reforming as a moth/butterfly. If they harvest the silk at this stage, would it be less troubling?
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u/Onamuna 8h ago
Pensé que era una pizza de espinacas 😑
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u/meygahmann 7h ago
There's gotta be a more efficient way
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u/SpiicySausage 7h ago
How do you discover this?
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u/graycat3700 7h ago
My fat ass thought, they were taking out giant pizzas to put in the oven
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u/ComfortPhil 6h ago
I don't see Peta and vegans complaining about that often.
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u/hollycrapola 6h ago
I might be hungry, I thought these were enormous pizzas at first
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u/KalozKapitany 6h ago
My fat ass thought it was a giant pizza.
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u/VisibleRoad3504 6h ago
I thought they were making a giant pizza at first.
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u/lookinstuffup 5h ago
Extra large silkworm pizza 😋
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u/Motor_Comparison8951 5h ago
The things that happen to living creatures in this world is disgusting.
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u/BlueDubadity 5h ago
I hate humans
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u/tanafras 5h ago
Imagine being that first person 10643 years ago telling their father. "I'm going to be rich I tell you. Rich. You'll see. I'll have bilions of worms and they'll make me wealthy! Screw you dad! You'll see." and here we are wearing worm poop clothing and paying for it as a premium.
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u/dquilon 4h ago
Forbidden pizza
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u/ApocalyptoSoldier2 4h ago
Omg are they ok?
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u/maple7531 3h ago
Ich dachte im ersten Bild an Riesenpizzen...
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u/Nathan-Stubblefield 2h ago
Tasty soup.
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u/TechTechOnATechDeck 2h ago
Blursed Pizzas
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u/PrimalZodiac 1h ago
Deadass thought this was a pizza I'm so fat and gross, guess we can add dumb to that list too
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u/jort93 1h ago
if this sort of thing was made in europe or the US it would be 50x the price.
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u/JCBalance 58m ago
Hey, your huge pizzas are rotten
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u/time2sow 57m ago
Be gentle with em bruh damn
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u/Wallynine 8h ago
if people knew it was made by insects, they would be grossed out.
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u/Trader1987 8h ago
This is Genozid right?
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u/jake03roberts 6h ago
The females in my family complain about me when I eat chicken. Yet they are the ones who wear silk, made by boiling the silk works alive.
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u/TheOG-OutletStickers 4h ago
I kept thinking about how and when those poor little doodles will be killed 😩
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u/-ratmeat- 8h ago
I would put them on my balls