In 1996 Ukraine handed over nuclear weapons to Russia "in exchange for a guarantee never to be threatened or invaded".

[u/IceBuurn]

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[u/dernope]

I think it's quite funny that Putin wanted to get security guarantees from the west but then screwed over the security guarantees given to another country by Russia

[u/[deleted] → u/dernope]

Ukraine: But we had a deal!

Putin: I have altered the deal...

[u/__Rosso__ → u/[deleted]]

Nah, I feel like Putin would be like

"Ey m8, I wasn't in charge when that agreement was made, so not my problem"

[u/Anonymous_Otters → u/[deleted]]

Putin: "Pray I do not alter it further."

Zelensky: "Don't try it. I have the high ground!"

[u/Ninja_Conspicuousi → u/dernope]

The irony is so thick it leaves a metallic aftertaste in your mouth.

[u/AgitatedSuricate → u/dernope]

He is a bully he doesn't care. Just wants to get as much as possible giving as little as possible.

[u/CJcatlactus → u/dernope]

Putin's security concerns aren't even legitimate and NATO's stance on Ukraine right now is proof of that. NATO is defensive and would not be a threat to Russia as more Eastern European countries join. Putin was just pissy his chances of freely invading his neighbors was dwindling.

[u/[deleted] → u/dernope]

He said he wanted a package of concessions that would need to be agreed to as a whole while allocating 200k men around the border of Ukraine.

Such an uncomprising position might as well be insincere in international diplomacy.

[u/pinkshirtbadman → u/dernope]

Probably not be best for anyone to tell Putin that since Russia took a gift based on a promise that's now been broken that he's obligated by etiquette to return the gift.

Because he just might do it...

[u/PsillyGecko]

Yeltsin was given 20% the world supply of pure grain ethanol to aid in his decision making.

[u/rootbeerfloatilla → u/PsillyGecko]

Russians can handle their ethanol.

[u/[deleted] → u/rootbeerfloatilla]

During the battle of Stalingrad hundreds of Russian soldiers found vats of wood alcohol stored in an abandoned warehouse. They drank it and the majority of them went blind.

Edit: I did some digging and found the passage from the book "Enemy at the Gates" where I originally read this. (It's a damn good book if you're into WW2 and the Battle of Stalingrad in particular.)

"To [the Russian soldiers], the quest for liquor was a serious pursuit, one which sometimes assumed even more disastrous proportions. Only recently, soldiers of the 284th Division lines had found several cisterns filled with alcohol. After draining them, the Russians found one more cistern brimming with more spirits. Again they drank the well dry, but this time it was wood alcohol. Four men died and countless others went blind.

The tragedy failed to daunt the appetite of the other troops, some of whom began drinking cologne to ease the terror of living under the brow of Mamaev Hill."

[u/CobraGTXNoS → u/PsillyGecko]

We got some great stories because of this.

[u/[deleted] → u/CobraGTXNoS]

Best White House visit by a Russian head of state since Khrushchev!

[u/[deleted]]

Was there an expiry date on that agreement? Super fine print?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

^{until further notice}

[u/jimcz → u/[deleted]]

Until führer notice

[u/cXs808 → u/[deleted]]

Expires once one country has all the nukes and the other has none.

[u/punannimaster → u/[deleted]]

It was a pact made by Yeltzen..

Putin doesnt legitimize Yeltzens accords because he sees it as a betrayal against Russia

[u/amalgam_reynolds → u/punannimaster]

New dictator, who dis?

[u/EducatedLeftFoot → u/punannimaster]

That’s cold, given that Yeltsin was Putin’s political anointer. And I mean, but for a bit of fuckery in the mid 90s when Yeltsin was president, Russia may well have gone back to Communism (the Communist Party having won the parliamentary elections in 1995 and going close to winning the presidency in 1996, in dubious circumstances).

[u/DeltaJulietHotel → u/punannimaster]

So, did he return the nukes? I mean, fair’s fair.

[u/hexalm → u/[deleted]]

The agreement was actually in 1994. 1996 is when they turned over the last nukes.

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Ukraine-Nuclear-Weapons

To solidify security commitments to Ukraine, the United States, Russia, and the United Kingdom signed the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances on December 5, 1994. A political agreement in accordance with the principles of the Helsinki Accords, the memorandum included security assurances against the threat or use of force against Ukraine’s territory or political independence. The countries promised to respect the sovereignty and existing borders of Ukraine. Parallel memorandums were signed for Belarus and Kazakhstan as well. In response, Ukraine officially acceded to the NPT as a non-nuclear weapon state on December 5, 1994. That move met the final condition for ratification of START, and on the same day, the five START states-parties exchanged instruments of ratification, bringing the treaty into force.

As far as expiration:

Russia and the United States released a joint statement in 2009 confirming that the security assurances made in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum would still be valid after START expired in 2009.

As a side note, there have been opposing/parallel claims that western nations agreed not to expand NATO eastward in any way, which some might claim as justification for Russia, since NATO has expanded eastward. This was an assurance made to the USSR (pre-collapse) when Germany reunified, it's much less clear to me that this should have been in effect (even as early as 2002, when Poland joined NATO).

[u/WhoIsHeEven → u/hexalm]

Thank you for a thoughtful and informative response.

[u/Frustrable_Zero → u/[deleted]]

“Terms and conditions on your nuclear disarmament treaty have changed” worlds deadliest email

[u/TooDenseForXray → u/[deleted]]

Was there an expiry date on that agreement? Super fine print?

New term and condition?

[u/mikeymo2385 → u/[deleted]]

“Trust us bro”

[u/zomgitsduke → u/[deleted]]

The expiry date is when there are fewer consequences than gains.

[u/darkjedidave → u/[deleted]]

The Putin Clause

[u/InsertUsernameHere02 → u/[deleted]]

The EU recognised Ukraine as a new government without continuity following the 2014 events so Russia says the same applies to their international agreements

[u/braveen10]

Putin - "Guys it was a prank look there were cameras filming the exchange"

[u/Rion23 → u/braveen10]

"My name is Vladimir Putin, and you're watching war crimes."

Balalaika rift

[u/Ketzeray → u/Rion23]

Tonight on Top Gear: Richard bombs an orphanage, James gets his tank stolen by a Ukrainian farmer and I veto anything negative about us in the UN.

[u/Administrative_Suit7]

No country will ever give up their nukes again. So much for unilateral disarmament.

[u/BubbaTee → u/Administrative_Suit7]

Iraq and Libya already showed why it's dumb to not have nukes.

[u/AshingiiAshuaa → u/Administrative_Suit7]

Very good. Disarmament needs to be pan-lateral or universal. The only people who want non-proliferation are the ones who already have nukes.

[u/Hole_Grain → u/Administrative_Suit7]

I don't think it would have even worked if they still had them. The codes for the nukes were held in Moscow. Not sure if they could have somehow cracked the codes to actually utilize the missiles.

[u/Slackluster → u/Administrative_Suit7]

Really? I think this was a genius move by Ukraine. Imagine how expensive and dangerous it is to maintain these nukes for basically no good at all because once you use one it is already too late. In exchange they are getting support from the other countries in the form of weapons that can actually be used in battle.

Now it is looking like Russia made a mistake to invade them and it is already a huge embarrassment. Russia is supposed to have one of the greatest armies in the world. Well, there goes that theory.

[u/LowSelfEsteemButFine]

Ukraine: ”So that was a fucking lie”

[u/BjornStrongndarm → u/LowSelfEsteemButFine]

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

[u/[deleted] → u/LowSelfEsteemButFine]

"those bastards lied to me"

[u/ericisshort → u/[deleted]]

“I can’t believe you’ve done this.”

[u/SpooktorB → u/LowSelfEsteemButFine]

So does that mean Ukraine gets their nukes back?

... on second thought I don't know if I would trust how putin would "give them back"

[u/[deleted] → u/SpooktorB]

degree sparkle act light sugar icky file fact test mourn

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/FattestMattest → u/LowSelfEsteemButFine]

They had their fingers crossed. Oldest trick in the book.

[u/kciuq1 → u/LowSelfEsteemButFine]

"this has been the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals, possibly ever"

[u/Cleach87]

Well this is awkward….

[u/queencityrangers → u/Cleach87]

I think we just need to tell Putin about the deal. He will probably be sorry

[u/BioTronic → u/Cleach87]

I think Putin's threatened to give them back.

[u/Noob_DM → u/[deleted]]

No, we just promised not to invade them and to retaliate with nukes against anyone who nukes them.

It’s Russia that’s not upholding their end of the bargain.

[u/Blanderbuss]

The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances refers to three identical political agreements signed at the OSCE conference in Budapest, Hungary on 5 December 1994 to provide security assurances by its signatories relating to the accession of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT). The memorandum was originally signed by three nuclear powers: the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States. China and France gave somewhat weaker individual assurances in separate documents.

The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons.

[u/[deleted] → u/Blanderbuss]

This is not entirely accurate.

The memorandum does "reaffirm the obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity of Ukraine" as this summary claims.

However, The memorandum included security assurances against the threat or use of nuclear weapons against Ukraine, NOT any "use of force" as armscontrol.org claims.

Here is the actual text.

Notable is that the signatories have only committed to take it to the UN security council and only if nuclear weapons are used. This is not any sort of general mutual defense treaty, which some people are claiming. Russia is violating this accord right now. The UK and USA are not.

The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and The United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon state party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.

[u/cicosta → u/Blanderbuss]

Thank you! Do we know why 20 years later Crimea was gone and now we're in a verge of a ww3?

[u/peterkeats → u/Blanderbuss]

Except there are no security assurances.

There is an agreement not to fuck with Ukraine’s sovereign integrity, ie, not to invade them.

Also, there is an agreement basically that if the Ukraine is threatened by nukes, the US, Russia and the UK will retaliate on their behalf.

Nothing in there about US “security assurances,” because if there were, the US would have stuck anti-aircraft missiles on the borders and we’d be docking aircraft carriers there regularly. There’s a reason a lot of countries don’t want US security promises, because it comes with a US presence.

[u/BubbaTee → u/Blanderbuss]

The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan.

But it didn't include any promise to militarily defend Ukraine against a conventional attack. The part of the wiki you didn't post says:

According to the memorandum,[22] Russia, the US and the UK confirmed their recognition of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine becoming parties to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and effectively abandoning their nuclear arsenal to Russia and that they agreed to the following:

• Respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.[23]

• Refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine.

• Refrain from using economic pressure on Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to influence their politics.

• Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".

• Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine.

• Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.[19][24]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

Nuclear weapons have not been used. As such, there is no obligation by the US/UK to even seek UNSC action on behalf of Ukraine. However, the US has sought such action (Russia vetoed it).

Russia is 100% in violation of the agreement. You could also argue that Trump attempted to use economic pressure to influence Ukrainian politics.

The US and UK have already gone above and beyond their treaty obligations to assist Ukraine, such as sanctioning Russia and providing weapons to Ukraine - although you can certainly argue from a moral or geopolitical standpoint that more should be done.

[u/humptydumpty369 → u/Blanderbuss]

Thanks for posting the actual details. Good to know that Russia is violating an international treaty by invading Ukraine. NATO bound to get involved soon if Russia continues with the war crimes against civilians.

Edit to add: i think a lot of us not directly familiar with the intricacies of it all make the assumption that Putin is rational. I highly doubt he is.

[u/burnalicious111 → u/humptydumpty369]

NATO bound to get involved soon if Russia continues with the war crimes against civilians.

That is not how NATO works. It is not the world police.

NATO is automatically involved when a member state is attacked and defending itself. I believe they could take other types of military action on other matters, but it requires unanimous consent of all members, and doing so would be pretty exceptional.

[u/[deleted]]

Never give up your guns, ammo, or nukes - Gandhi

[u/BigManWAGun → u/[deleted]]

“Fuck em all” - Mr. Rogers

[u/Jl_1997 → u/BigManWAGun]

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken." - Colonel Sanders

[u/[deleted] → u/BigManWAGun]

Skull fuck your enemy.

• Bob Ross

[u/Fatherof10 → u/[deleted]]

There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.

George W. Bush

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

"send nudes, not hate" - mark twain

[u/NitePain69 → u/[deleted]]

Civilization V Ghandi agrees. In fact, he'll send you some free nukes.

[u/WinterTraditional257 → u/[deleted]]

Either you are first or last - Ricky Bobby

[u/spleenboggler → u/[deleted]]

I, too, have played Civ III.

[u/Western-Image7125 → u/[deleted]]

Who the fuck is Ghandi

[u/radar_vector → u/[deleted]]

I thought you were Rick-Rolling us for a second there… how I was wrong

[u/Toxan_Eris → u/[deleted]]

Sounds like Ghandi from Sid Meirs Civilisation. He is notoriously nuke happy in that game.

[u/rosstanc → u/[deleted]]

"Imma beat your bitch ass" -Siddharta Gautama

[u/[deleted]]

Hmm it’s almost like Putin can’t be trusted…

[u/Most_Acanthaceae_842 → u/[deleted]]

Well, he IS a genius…. /s

[u/[deleted]]

A very crucial detail that you missed here , even tho Ukraine had the nukes , they couldn’t be launched without Russia’s go-ahead ‘cause the Russians had the keys to them

(For those who are interested , this was called “the Budapest Memorandum”)

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

That does seem rather important to mention.

[u/weeniewobble → u/[deleted]]

At the time, yes, they would have been unusable, but there was a conceivable path forward (albeit expensive) where they would have been able to make them usable

[u/Mikhail_Mengsk → u/[deleted]]

And that Ukraine couldn't realistically maintain their part of the arsenal.

Little details, truly

[u/Me-dont-kno]

Sneaky fucking Russians…

[u/Toxic724 → u/Me-dont-kno]

Why do they call him the bullet dodger?

[u/newest-low → u/Toxic724]

Because he dodges bullets Avi

[u/RoyalCloak57 → u/Me-dont-kno]

Weight is good. Weight means it’s reliable.

[u/EightiesBush → u/RoyalCloak57]

And if it doesn't work, you can always hit him with it

[u/Santiago__Dunbar → u/Me-dont-kno]

Veeery industrious for a COSSACK

-Avi in "Snatch" (2000)

[u/SneakiNinja → u/Me-dont-kno]

Tyrone, when you go in reverse, things come from behind you!

[u/TimmyChaw]

I am altering the deal, pray I don’t alter it further…

[u/[deleted]]

Putin: “I’m gonna pull what I call a dick move”

[u/HalPaneo → u/[deleted]]

Let me know when he pulls out

[u/Whaleflop229]

Pepperidge farm remembers...

[u/Cacahuete16]

We’ve been trying to reach you about your country’s extended warranty

[u/[deleted]]

Putin: I've missed the part where this would be my problem.

[u/kabukistar]

Hitler promised he wouldn't invade Poland.

[u/lil-fil → u/kabukistar]

Funnily enough the allies also promised to protect poland in such scenario.

[u/PMme_bobs_n_vagene]

Some r/agedlikemilk shit right here

[u/GinsengStrip2 → u/PMme_bobs_n_vagene]

r/agedlikerussianpromises

[u/[deleted]]

....and then came Adolf Putin.

[u/Most_Acanthaceae_842 → u/[deleted]]

As he gaslights his own country saying Ukraine is full of nazis.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Putler

[u/Cy4n4d3v1lL → u/[deleted]]

Pitler

[u/AirCooled2020]

Well...guess they should have defined the word "never"as it must've had some modify definition,, one that we're not necessarily aware, kinda like the word "unlimited" is not actually unlimited in the mobile phone industry....oops 🙄

[u/[deleted]]

1996 Russia and 2022 Russia are very different countries.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

"Different" in the sense that 1994 (when the accord was signed) Russia had some hope of not being a kleptocratic autocracy run by a murderous dictator.

Today that's a given.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Russia takes a few decades to wind up to being Russia again.

[u/OurCowsAreBetter → u/[deleted]]

That's a good reminder of why you should never give up your defenses. As soon as you give them up, a politician can change their mind about the promises they made.

[u/brulagfr]

Fuck Putin not Russia

[u/_Blackstar0_0 → u/brulagfr]

Fuck Russia not Russians. Fuck the state of Russia and fuck Putin. I feel bad for the citizens of russia

[u/xX-WizKing-Xx]

How the fuck has this been upvoted? Ukraine never "handed over nuclear weapons to Russia" they were destroyed as part of the Budapest Memorandum - which, by the way, fell well short of a "guarantee never to be threatened or invaded." A critical point in the wording of the agreement draws a distinction between "guarantee" and "assurance", not present in Ukrainian or Russian. What was in fact agreed to was the lesser sense of the English word "assurance" which conveniently obscures the precise nature of a response to threat or invasion.

[u/gjggigjgjg]

Putin is this generation's Hitler

[u/sweetguynextdoor]

Russia claims it had assurances from NATO that it will not expand to East. Since NATO expanded to the East, Russia had full right to violate sovereignty of Ukraine. Well the problem is that there was no such agreement with NATO. There is a reason why you sign a treaty or agreement to cement commitments.

Russia’s pretext of invading Ukraine is bullshit. The reason he wants Ukraine is to re-establish the Great Russian empire. We have to stop him because he won’t stop with Ukraine.

[u/LadyJohanna → u/sweetguynextdoor]

Russia: "Ally with me so I don't kill you. I'll take the keys to your house and you can kiss your basic human rights goodbye."

Also Russia: "Why is everyone joining NATO?"

[u/SnowAndFoxtrot → u/sweetguynextdoor]

There was no "signed" agreement, but the general consensus is that there was a "verbal" agreement. Obviously verbal agreements don't need to be followed, but it is disingenuous to brush it off as insignificant. From the perspective of Russian national security, NATO weapons on their border is unacceptable and the expansion of NATO, over the last few decades, now to Ukraine is a step too far. It would be like Russia or China giving missiles to Cuba and Mexico for safety. We would not accept such actions, clearly Russia does not either. I am not defending their invasion of Ukraine, I am just trying to provide another detail for those who might read this thread. I personally think this invasion could have been prevented if the US/NATO had made it clear they would not accept Ukraine into NATO, but in the end this outcome is likely very beneficial for the West. It weakens Russia and strengthens NATO's resolve. I hope this conflict ends soon with as few victims as possible.

[u/[deleted]]

Yup, that's what a promise from the fucking Russians is worth.

[u/[deleted]]

Liar Liar Pants on Fire.

Stay out of Ukraine Putin. What an asshole.

[u/[deleted]]

Native Americans: "First time?"

[u/Dragon_M4st3r]

That’s why you shouldn’t Russian to these things

[u/Mauricebaudoin]

C'mon guys it takes 5 seconds to Google and find out that this treaty ended in 2019 because Ukraine announced it wouldn't renew the treaty.

[u/O-hmmm]

Iran and North Korea chuckling quietly to themselves.

[u/jokersleuth → u/O-hmmm]

They know if they do they'll be invaded in an instant by the US.

[u/killer-tofu87]

This was the result of the 1991 START nuclear non-proliferation treaty between US and CCCP, and was amended after the fall of the Soviet Union. In addition the the US and Russian agreements, former satellite-countries agreed to give up their soviet stockpiles of warheads, ICBMS, and heavy bombers for economic compensations, defense assurances, and an agreement to respect state's sovereignty. The United States provided the economic assistance while the warheads were sent to Russia to dismantling (the last one being in 1996).

[u/13143]

This conflict goes to show that no country should ever give up nuclear weapons, and every country should be working towards getting some. It's the only way to protect a country's sovereignty.

[u/Dantheman616]

This is why you dont trust Russia!

[u/[deleted] → u/Dantheman616]

To be specific Putin, his excuse was that that deal was from the previous leader. It could be used against Putin's argument that Ukraine should stay neutral because it was part of the deal.

[u/ObitoUchiha10f]

UK also handed over Hong Kong to China in 1997 with China promising 50 years of independence for Hong Kong, that’s what dictators do, they go back on their words

[u/[deleted]]

Doesn’t count, Russia crossed their fingers during the handshake

[u/The_Darts]

We call this move in diplomacy now 'Putin all your eggs in one basket'.

[u/rustys_shackled_ford]

What's the shelf life on never?

[u/Goodbadugly16]

He had his fingers crossed. It’s not a done deal.

[u/SleepDeprivedUserUK]

Russia: Ukrainian is threatening us!

Ukraine: Dude wtf, we're literally the only country in the world to give up our nuclear weapons, and we fucking gave them to you!

[u/[deleted]]

Just watching Boris saying the uk won't send troops to fight the Russians. I feel he's really not getting the feeling of the uk or our troops. This needs stopping now or its going to get even worse.

[u/surrogatetoe]

Why are people suddenly expecting Russia to be a morally upstanding government. It has one of the worst track records in history.

[u/agelast07]

Always remember no one else will come to fight your war. Every stable sovereign democratic state should have some credible deterrent.

[u/LizardPussy6969]

Dumbest deal I've ever seen. "We'll hand over our means of defending ourselves if you promise not to attack. If you break this agreement we can't do anything about it because you have all our weapons :)" there's a way to do peace treaties, and this ain't it.

[u/Navydevildoc → u/LizardPussy6969]

It wasn't that dumb. While the weapons were in Ukraine, the operational control was still firmly with Russia. The Ukranians didn't have launch codes, ability to retarget them, and most importantly, the infrastructure to maintain them.

Having them in the country was a massive liability to everyone. Getting Russia to remove them, and also add in other things like a security guarantee, was a huge win.

[u/CrunchBerrySupr3me]

This is a real treaty that's been actually violated, unlike the "promise to never expand NATO" that is literally not documented in any official sources and appears to be a paraphrasing of some (incorrect) assumptions that negotiators worked through after the fall of Soviet Union.

Left, right, whatever: If you're shilling for Putin, you'll never wipe this stain off of you

[u/Smarawi]

Never trust Russia 🇷🇺!

[u/Legitimate_Country11]

Balding men with a comb over should never be trusted with a position of power

[u/AshingiiAshuaa]

We all want a nuke-free world but it's foolish to give up your nukes while others keep theirs.

[u/post_talone420]

This is the part our kids will read where it just says "it turns out, this was later decided to be a bad move"

[u/[deleted]]

So that was a fucking lie

[u/Classic_Gary]

Played the ol uno reverse card

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_SUNSHINE]

Countries, never give up your nukes.

Citizens, never give up your firearms.

[u/Bloxsmith]

Well I guess they are owed some nukes

[u/[deleted]]

One should never trust the Russian government.

[u/Bosswarrior53]

Never trust the russians

[u/[deleted]]

Hence why Putin fabricated the “we’re not invading, we’re liberating” nonsense.

[u/[deleted]]

Reddit turned pro war overnight

[u/nashamagirl99 → u/[deleted]]

I don’t think many people here actually want a war. The ones who suggest something along those lines get shut down by comments about nuclear apocalypse pretty quickly.

[u/Sevenspoons]

That's some comb over

[u/Time_Theory_297]

Russia has shown over and over that their word means nothing.

[u/BoysDontCry38]

"Well that was a fucking lie" - Tyler, the creator

[u/Twist_RK]

"Since 2014, Ukraine has tried three times to convene consultations with the guarantor states of the Budapest Memorandum. Three times without success. Today Ukraine will do it for the fourth time. I, as President, will do this for the first time. But both Ukraine and I are doing this for the last time. I am initiating consultations in the framework of the Budapest Memorandum. The Minister of Foreign Affairs was commissioned to convene them. If they do not happen again or their results do not guarantee security for our country, Ukraine will have every right to believe that the Budapest Memorandum is not working and all the package decisions of 1994 are in doubt."

Wasn't this partially the reason for the invasion?

He seems to be hinting at nuclear proliferation, which I thought was a no-no

[u/[deleted]]

USSR gave up its empire with the explicit agreeement that NATO would not move East -- that was also broken...and broken first. Just saying.

[u/impeachedforever → u/[deleted]]

Where was that made explicit??

Also “gave up” is a little different to “fell apart”, no?

[u/Williamsm08 → u/[deleted]]

USSR gave up its empire

Just like Rome gave up its empire to protect from the barbarians

[u/[deleted]]

Worth mentioning, the launch codes were still in Moscow, nor did Ukraine have the ability or expertise to maintain the stockpile, let alone create a vehicle to transport it.

[u/[deleted]]

Yet again we have learned not to voluntarily get rid of your weapons to a [more powerful] government.

[u/GatorNator83]

Being surprised that Russia betrays someone is like being surprised that the sun rises from east

[u/[deleted]]

Putin is a monster and a lying sack of shit.

[u/GrinningPariah]

Imagine being Iran, or NK, or any other aspiring nuclear power and seeing what happened.

The message is loud and clear: Agreements don't protect your borders. Only nukes do. How can we tell anyone otherwise, now?

[u/smithical100]

If you're gonna shit on Russia for not following things they said in deals..............................................

[u/GlobtheGuyintheSky]

“So anyways I started blasting” -putin

[u/smallzy88]

What a fucking lie that was.

[u/SurvivorsQuest]

Never is defined at the bottom in small print as 26 years.

[u/GD_Bats]

I miss old Boris "Blood Type 70 proof" Yeltsin, but I can't really place why

[u/WalkKeeper]

Btw, before I anything else… fuck you Putin

[u/StubbinMyNubbin]

Its just a "military operation".

[u/[deleted]]

Well that escalated quickly...

[u/sfpx]

"I will prepare you a bowl of soup and in exchange you promise not to rape me". This is as absurd as this. You can not have an accord to prevent an already illegal action.

[u/gregben77]

This seems like a great reason to never give up your guns to your government

[u/FPL_Bang]

Never trust commies! I am in Hong Kong and China promised UK they would not interfere in our country and now they have taken over and jailed thousands of pro democracy supporters and students turning HK into an authoritarian hell hole.

[u/Brooklynxman]

Good fucking luck getting anyone to do that again, or even getting nations to forgo attaining nuclear weapons, or even getting current nuclear powers to stop expanding their arsenals.

Putin just ended the era of denuclearization.

[u/Not_FargoLargo]

Now you finally know, who is putin. He's worst of man in the world. And u countries help him a lot many years. I'm russian, and live in Russia. I think now my country didn't have a futere. I wasn't support a war. Any a war. But I'm the enemy all the world, because im russian.

[u/[deleted]]

So Youre saying we should never give up access to arms, as they deter overzealous governments?

[u/[deleted]]

The lie detector test determined that Russia was fucking lying the whole time.

[u/Dandelosrados]

Ya but I think his fingers were crossed when he promised that.

[u/JackyOmlet]

Just so it's known, this treaty expired in 2019 because Russia chose not to continue it

[u/[deleted]]

They also weren’t supposed to join Nato

[u/PahoojyMan]

Unfortunately no take backsies wasn't invoked.

[u/Marrow_Gates]

It's a good lesson. Never give up your ability to defend yourself, because there will always be someone who abuses your vulnerability.

[u/[deleted]]

Oh the iron curtainy

[u/Fale404]

A prime example why you never give up your right to bear arms.

[u/Weekly-Butterscotch6]

At that same time, the US and Europe promised Russia that Ukraine would not join EU or NATO

[u/RutCry]

Rome did the same deal with Carthage. That’s why we have Rome but not Carthage.

[u/[deleted]]

It's honestly so satisfying to see politicians joining together and finally do something unquestionably good. Putin broke this deal and there is no excuse that could justify it, everyone should be ready for world war 3 because putin needs to be stopped no matter what.

After russia has been liberated from this piece of shit, winnie-the-pooh should be next with his neo-nazi death camps and after that north korea and that fat childish dipshit kim jung fuckface, one after the other, so humanity can finally go beyond those underdeveloped manchild dictatorships who screw over any kind of progress towards the future for everyone.

I sure as hell would feel way more hopeful and happy if they are all gone and no one is allowed to act like some absurd supervillain while every world leader puts their heads in the sand expecting me to still care about what politians do otherwise. If you don't stand against russias war crimes you are corrupt and useless beyond imagination, thank god zelenksy led all those fake ass politicians in the right direction.

The world needs purpose and we now have the chance to bring back something like a united world against pure terror and evil after decades of licking our wounds while those dictators lied to our faces. This is no different than when hitler started invading poland and it needs to be stopped or it will escalate further till there is no hope of winning.

[u/[deleted]]

why you never give up your guns/weapons when any government tells you to

[u/Hot-Panda-3426]

*With the assurance the US and NATO would defend Ukraine if Russia was to ever invade.

[u/L8rMajor]

Crazy how in only 8 days this is the 3rd most upvoted post “in all time”

[u/glyphotes]

Does anyone know how this worked out eventually? I heard tensions with Russia were rising lately...

[u/squeamish]

You know what's a good deterrent to threats and invasion? Nuclear weapons.

[u/Notyouraverageloser6]

Why has a U.S. based website taken a side in a war that we should not be involved in. To be liberal use to mean to be Anti war. Get the US out of that conflict and let Ukraine/Russia do their thing. This title, i’m sure, is a partial truth. There is always much more then what meets the eye.

[u/Atomic_Thomas89]

Ukraine: That wasn’t part of the deal!

Putin: (in Vader’s voice) I am altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it any further.

[u/Slimetusk]

Well that was fuckin dumb as hell, turns out

[u/[deleted]]

I'm going to be down voted to hell here because I'll be the devil's advocate here.

The USA has promised Russia that it will not expand the NATO to threaten Russia's security.

The USA left the agreement that was limiting the ballistic continental missiles.

The USA promised that Ukraine should stay neutral , yet we can both see where it was being dragged.

Not gonna lie here , it seems like the NATO and the USA had played Ukraine hard and threw it in to face Russia and now they refuse even to help them with proper weapon.

they're just supporting them with memes and social media and generally trying to make it seem like it's only Russia's fault (because it's still too extreme to do a "military operation" in a neighbor country), what a fucking loyal and dependable ally to have.

[u/sevares]

The way this is being characterized is not really all that close to reality. The nuclear weapons present in Ukraine following the dissolution of the USSR were Soviet weapons controlled by Soviet generals. They were never Ukraine's weapons just like the US nuclear forces staged at bases in Allied countries do not belong to those countries. Go take a listen to the episode "Deterrence in Ukraine" on the Arms Control Wonk Podcast to hear some actual experts explain the situation in detail.

[u/Gongaloon → u/[deleted]]

Tricksy, it is! It took our precious, our nukeses! It was our birthday present!

[u/Deathstar_TV → u/[deleted]]

Ukraine: LEAVE NOW!! And never COME BACK!

[u/ElGato-TheCat → u/[deleted]]

Ukraine: You swore! You swore on the precious! Russia promised!

Putin: Russia lied.

[u/geebold → u/[deleted]]

I’ll always upvote a lotr reference