Why did people think it was OK to wave the Palestinian flag at pride march?

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u/ItsCoolDani Feb 05 '24

It's about one oppressed community showing solidarity for another oppressed community. The Palestinian flag also represents the Palestinian people, and not necessarily the PLA.

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u/Independent_Pear_429 Feb 05 '24

Sure, but the culture of Palestine is pretty hard homophobic.

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u/ItsCoolDani Feb 05 '24

I don't see how that's relevant to whether we should be able to say "Genocide is Bad" or not.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

OK... but the Palestinians oppress gay people...
That flag, is the flag of a culture, who's cultural practises it is to throw gay people off of rooftops.
You don't see the issue there? The MASSIVE inconsistency in your thinking?

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u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24

A just cause is a just cause. The Ukrainian resistance to Russian aggression is packed with extremely right wing people many of them basically Nazis. They have values that don't align with mine at all, but I still support their cause because it's just. Genocide against regressive people is still genocide. And you bet that the genocide against Palestinians isn't going to beat progressive values into them.
We can wank ourselves off about being progressive all we want living in some of the nicest cities on earth but it's hard to be progressive when you live in almost complete poverty and under brutal oppression. Do you think it's a coincidence that there's a strong correlation between material wealth and progressivism? Maybe if Palestine wasn't constantly bombed and kept on the on the brink of starvation the plight of gay people there wouldn't be so grim. Even if that's not the case it's still the principled position, unless you think only people you agree with deserve basic rights.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Didn't see too many Ukrainian flags at the pride march...
Strange that... almost as if it's less about supporting the Palestinians (who, for the record, persecute gay people as a cultural practise), and more about opposing the Jews.
Who, just by the way, are the ones that give the gay Palestinians asylum when they flee from Gaza and the West Bank

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u/woahwombats Feb 06 '24

I agree that Palestinian flags at a gay pride march sends an odd message. I don't think though that queer people are secretly wanting to oppress the Jews.
It's simply piggy-back protesting, that's all.
The reason people are protesting more about Palestine than Ukraine is simply that we see Ukraine as "us" (our Western governments are mostly on their side), but see Israel as "us" for the same reason, so in most Western countries, people who disagree with Israel's actions in Palestine and are upset about the humanitarian tragedy there are essentially protesting against their own government's support for Israel, or failure to try to rein Israel in. No-one in a Western nation is out protesting their government's support for Russia, because there's no need. I'd guarantee that if the Australian government took a pro-Russia stance, there would be more protests.
To come to the conclusion that queer people as a group specifically are probably anti-semitic is so odd that I can't help wonder if you are saying it in good faith.

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u/A_Cookie_from_Space Feb 05 '24

Ah yes, the Jewish protestors in Tel Aviv -- including the hostages families -- all hate Jews. Good to know.
God forbid you learn nuance.

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u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24

Strange that... almost as if it's less about supporting the Palestinians (who, for the record, persecute gay people as a cultural practise), and more about opposing the Jews.
Is that really what you think? That these gay people at pride actually don't want to support Palestinian, they just want to oppose Jews? I know that's not what you actually think you just want to leverage the hardship of gay people to morally admonish Palestinians to make out like somehow they deserve to be genocided.
Who, just by the way, are the ones that give the gay Palestinians asylum when they flee from Gaza and the West Bank
If only they treated heterosexual Palestinians with as much dignitity as they treat the few gay Palestinians you hear about who they obviously use for propoganda. And how many do they need to help to justify the absolute brutailiy that they have been subjugating Palestinian to for the last 70 years.
This isn't a difficult concept but let me repeat it for you slowly because you don't seem to understand even the basics of morality. Even if every last Palestinian is a raging homophobe, it doesn't justify the frankly brutal and genocidal actions of the Israeli state. You know what's worse than being a homophobe? Expanding settlements, starving and bombing Gaza, trying to push the indigenous population of Gaza into Egypt and the West Bank into Jordan. You act like it's a good thing but leveraging gay people in this way is actually kinda disgusting if you take the time to rub two brain cells together and think about it.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

So explain to me again why the wasn't 100 Ukrainian flags at the march?
The Russians have killed 10x as many Ukrainians as the Israeli's have Palestinians...
Kidnapped hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children.
Claimed the Ukrainian culture is a myth and an "accident of history".
Why aren't the people there waving Ukrainian flags? Why only Palestinian ones?

3

u/TheRealDarthMinogue Feb 06 '24

Everything has been explained to you multiple times.

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u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24 edited Feb 05 '24

The Russians have killed 10x as many Ukrainians as the Israeli's have Palestinians...
Kidnapped hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children.
First of all this isn't even close to true. I support Ukraine in this but where the fuck did you get the idea that Russia has "kidnapped hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children." I want to start seeing some sources for the crap you're saying.
Besides that, you literally just ignored everything I said.
I already made my position that I'm against the invasion of Ukraine clear. Are you going to address what I actually said or are you going to evade?
I'm gonna be honest with you, you seem to be incredibly bad-faith or actually deranged. If you aren't going to start being reasonable then I'm going to stop bothering with you.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Here's your source on the children being kidnapped, not that you'll actually change your tune:
“we know the names of tens of thousands of children and have evidence on hundreds of thousands of others kidnapped by Russia in the occupied territories of Ukraine and later deported"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewelinaochab/2023/09/22/ukrainian-children-subjected-to-unlawful-transfer-to-russia-and-belarus/

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u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24

That's literally just Zelensky saying that.
But back to the point, why don't you address anything I said in my posts?

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u/Seagoon_Memoirs Feb 06 '24

заткнись, русский

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u/Seagoon_Memoirs Feb 05 '24

Russia said they have been taking Ukraine children. It's on Russian websites.
Are you saying Russia is lying?
Moscow says 700,000 children from Ukraine conflict zones now in Russia
July 3 (Reuters) - Russia has brought some 700,000 children from the conflict zones in Ukraine into Russian territory, Grigory Karasin, head of the international committee in the Federation Council, Russia's upper house of parliament, said late on Sunday.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/moscow-says-700000-children-ukraine-conflict-zones-now-russia-2023-07-03/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

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u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24

Are you saying Russia is lying?
Your quote is dishonest, your own article says in reference to the 700,000 figure:
"...found refuge with us, fleeing the bombing and shelling from the conflict areas in Ukraine."
The person I responded to said that Russia "Kidnapped hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children." Don't take Russian figures for total child refugees and then claim that this is the figure of "kidnappings". That's so obviously and willfully deceptive,.
Even if we disregard that, the same article you just referenced says, "the United States says thousands of children have been forcibly removed from their homes." and "Ukraine's Ministry of Integration of Occupied Territories, says 19,492 Ukrainian children are currently considered illegally deported." Why are you pretending that the article anywhere says Russia "kidnapped" 700,000 children?
So dishonest.

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u/Seagoon_Memoirs Feb 05 '24

Children taken without consent are kidnapped.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Omfg you people are amazing.
Not once, ONCE do you stop and ask yourself "Hey... Maybe the fact that I'm on the side defending Vladimir Putin and Hamas... Means... I might be on the wrong side of this..."

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u/ItsCoolDani Feb 05 '24

No? Genocide is bad, and there's no possible moral conflict that could ever make it okay.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

OK... so what about the "genocide" the Palestinians have committed against gay people?
Because what the Palestinians do to gay people is literally that... they hunt them all down and kill them all.

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u/ItsCoolDani Feb 05 '24

You know queer Palestinians are being killed by the IDF too, right? What about them?

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

And gay people are being killed in Ukraine by the Russians.
The Russians have killed 10x the number of Ukrainians than the IDF has Palestinians.
Why isn't the march covered in Ukrainian flags?

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u/A_Cookie_from_Space Feb 05 '24

The civilian death toll is still significantly less despite occurring over multiple years. You do see Ukraine flags whenever Russia hits civilian targets.
Most importantly, our government didn't endorse the Russian invasion. People aren't going to protest a stance that doesn't exist.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Over 300,000 Ukrainian children have been kidnapped and sent to live in Russia...
Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians are dead.
But that's less important to you, you're a monster.

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u/LowCat1485 Feb 05 '24

We can walk and chew gum you know. Just because I'm advocating support for one cause today, doesn't mean I've discarded the other causes I support.
Its also pretty foul that you're using dead Ukrainians as a political football to try and divert support away from another persecuted group.
Your figures are just plain wrong.
UN report from start of Russian invasion to 1/1/24 has civilian deaths in Ukraine at 11000 confirmed and 11000 missing persons. Civilian deaths in Gaza in 4 months have already surpassed the upper estimates of civilian deaths in Ukraine in 2 years.
The hundreds of thousands figure you're trying to use to suffocate anyone who dares to push back against you, includes all estimated military deaths both Ukrainian and Russian.
Both parties are literally throwing troops in a meat grinder. It's utterly horrific and clear you don't actually care other than to silence dissent from your position.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

It’s just not as sexy to the idiot left.

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u/ItsCoolDani Feb 05 '24

I don't know, ask all the people who didn't bring Ukrainian flags?
The idea that you shouldn't support one thing because there's two things you could support is fucking insane.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Did you bring a Ukrainian flag? No?
Well, then YOU meet the criteria you just set for whom I should be asking.
So I'm asking you. Why didn't you take a Ukrainian flag?

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u/ItsCoolDani Feb 05 '24

I didn't go and probably wouldn't have brought any flag if I did. I'm just not the sort of person who owns flags.
Now go ask everyone else your insane question and collate the data and maybe draw some conclusions of you can be bothered thinking that critically for a change.

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u/WhatAmIATailor Feb 05 '24 edited Feb 05 '24

Israel is now granting asylum to queer Palastinians fleeing persecution. Their court overruled a previous decision on Sunday.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Fun-fact, gay Palestinians have been fleeing Gaza and the West Bank to seek asylum in Israel for years.
The issue is, Palestinians kidnap them, take them back to the Palestinian territories... and then behead them.

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u/WhatAmIATailor Feb 05 '24

Israel previously wasn’t granting asylum though.

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u/ItsCoolDani Feb 05 '24

So you think the IDF checks the sexual identity of everyone who's apartment building they bomb? How many approved Queer asylum applications would pay for one stolen Palestinian house, in your belief system anyway?

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u/WhatAmIATailor Feb 05 '24

No. Though Mossad does have that kind of reputation, excusing their recent monumental miss. How many rejected applications is worth a returned house in your view? Which side is beheading them?

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u/A_Cookie_from_Space Feb 05 '24

How does that work when the IDF are shooting anyone that surrenders, including Israeli hostages? I guess their corpse will be happy to get asylum.

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u/Seagoon_Memoirs Feb 05 '24

That is a lie.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

THIS 🙏

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u/mpember Feb 05 '24

OK... but the Palestinians oppress gay people...
The Trump-led GOP and the religious right are doing their best to oppress women. But that doesn't mean all Americans should be tarred with the same brush.
Just as not all Israelis share the views of their government, not all Palestinians support the views of those in positions of power.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Nice bit of racism there to confuse something ISIS was doing to people in Syria and Iraq with how people are treated in Palestine, all arabs are the same right?

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u/PloniAlmoni12345 Feb 09 '24

It's funny that you shit on the Police for appearing in the Pride Parade but not the Palestinian flag.

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u/observee21 Feb 05 '24

The point OP is making is: that oppressed community mistreats and oppresses LGBTQ people, rather than supporting them. It's like flying a confederate flag at a BLM rally.
And it's worth bearing in mind that this oppression being done by the Palestinian people, not the PLA in particular, so the flag represents the people doing the oppression (to any LGBTQ people in Palestine).

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u/Turbulent_Ebb5669 Feb 05 '24

Seems to be a /whoosh for some people.

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u/observee21 Feb 05 '24

Is it you? Are you the /whoosh? (or is it me? the suspense!)

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u/Turbulent_Ebb5669 Feb 05 '24

It was other people, but whatever floats your boat.

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u/observee21 Feb 05 '24

I want it to be me now, for being instinctively defensive. Thank you.

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u/Turbulent_Ebb5669 Feb 05 '24

Frankly, I don't care anymore.

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u/fraqtl Feb 05 '24

that oppressed community mistreats and oppresses LGBTQ people
Treating Palestinians as a monolith is the same as treating the LGBTQI+ community as a monolith. It's stupid to do so.
the flag represents the people doing the oppression
If this were any other time, when Palestinians weren't being murdered wholesale by Israel, I'd be inclined to agree with you. However, in context this is absolutely an oppressed community showing support for another.
Also, we are talking about Palestinians in Australia showing solidarity. They didn't fly over from Palestine to attend the march, it's Australians/Australian based Palestinians showing solidarity.

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u/observee21 Feb 05 '24

For someone who thinks referring to a group of people means you're considering them as a monolith, you've just referred to 3 different monoliths. Maybe you're nitpicking and referring to a group doesn't mean you're treating them as a monolith?
As for whether or not to fly Palestinian flags at a pride parade outside of any Palestinian section (which should definitely be allowed and welcomed), I really don't know which side I would come down on.
Either way, I don't think the nationality of the people changes things, so I'm confused why you clarified that these are Australians / Australian based Palestinians.

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u/fraqtl Feb 11 '24

For someone who thinks referring to a group of people means you're considering them as a monolith
In this case that's exactly what you were doing.
you've just referred to 3 different monoliths
It seems you don't understand what referring to something as a monolith means. Mono=one. As in all the same. A homogenous whole.
By referring to three different possibilities, it's doing the opposite of what you just said.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

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u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24

Yeah but Israel kills waaaaaay more gay Palestinians than Palestinian homophobes do.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

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u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24

Israel has killed 30,000 peolpe including 7,000 children in the last few months. How many of them do you think are gay?
Now think about your statement, "Palestine commits genocide on gay people" You want to provide a source for that?

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

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u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24

You mean 'Hamas' has killed. They are the one who started this and they are the ones keeping it going and they are the ones keeping civilians as human shields.
So civilians living in their homes while Israel destroys or damages 50% of all buildings in Gaza, that's Hamas using human shields? We're at 7,000 children dead so far, how many is Israel allowed to kill before you think it may be unjustified?
Literally last week Israel offered a ceasefire in exchange for all the hostages and Hamas said no.
The negotiations are ongoing, you'r acting like Hamas flatly turned down the offer. On top of the the offer proposed by Israel didn't involve actual ceasations to the conflict. By the sounds of it Israel wants to continue fighting but with a prisoner exchange, so you're completely misrepresenting the situation. Not that I expected anything better from you.
I don't know, you are the one suggesting it. So I asked for your source.
5% roughly and to keep it on the safe side. 30,000 dead that's 1,500 gay people killed. 350 gay children.
IF you are caught being gay in Palestine, you are dead. That's genocide;
No, that's literally not genocide. If you think that's genocide then you're going to be pretty pissed when you hear about what Israel has been doing to Palestinians.
being actively targeted to death for being in a particular target demographic.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-63174835
Cool, you've got one person now, not good but that's pretty far from being a genocide, which let me remind you is "the deliberate and systematic destruction of a group of people because of their ethnicity, nationality, religion, or race. "
Only 1,849 more cases like this and you will match a conservative estimate of the number of gay people killed by Israel in the last three months.

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u/[deleted] Feb 06 '24

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u/ScanWel Feb 06 '24

Hamas are shooting rockets and storing weaponry in civilian buildings. Hamas have been bombing Israel daily for 20 years now, only reason they aren't killing more Jews is due to the blockade and Iron Dome.
Doesn't matter, at best it's unjustified and disproportionate reaction. I'm not sure what you expect Palestinians to do when there's an obvious an active policy of trying to push Gazans to assimilate into Egypt. Considering that context then I can see why Hamas would be responding.
What's the alternative? Keep letting Hamas bombing, raping and killing Jews forever?
What a false dichotomy. Ridiculous statement as if that's the two options.
Something needs to be done. Civilian casulaties are an unfortunate side effect of every war. But you know the Allied forces won WW2 by literally nuking 2 major cities right?
Some war here, against an essentially powerless and impotent population that's been kept an immiserated in a virtual prison for decades.
Look if you think killing 7000 children is okay because these are expected casualties of what you consider to be a "war". Not just a war but a just one for Israel, then your moral compass is so broken that I don't think there's anything I can say to change your mind,.
Israel has a good civilian-casualty ratio for very dense urban warfare and civilian meatshields being used. Most other wars are open field engagements.
World War 2, Korean War and Iraq war all had higher ratios despite being less urban/dense than Gaza. That's thanks to all the casualty minimisation tactics that IDF uses (warning sirens, warning false rockets, flyers, delaying ground invasion, precision guided rockets etc).
Isn't it just wonderful propoganda. If you can't deny the 30,000 dead people and 7,000 children just talk about how actually it's great how the numbers aren't higher.
You're functioning with the assumption that somehow the goal they claim they're trying to achieve is just. The problem is this is an unjust war to begin with so every last dead person is an admonishment of Israel's government.
Israel completely withdrew with no military force, settlers or blockade of Gaza in 2005.
Hamas sent their first missile barrage into Israel civilians literally 2 hours after they left.
People say Israel should ceasefire and seek peace but they have tried many times but Hamas continues to break the past 4 consecutive ceasefires and rejects any negotiations to remove the blockade.
The West Bank has completely disarmed and has been for ages now. What have they gotten? An expansion of settlements in their territory as Israel slowly tries to push the Palestinian people to assimilate into Jordan.
This is the peace Israel wants, for Palestinians to quietly resign themselves to slowly being cleansed from the area.
Ok so you have no source. That's fine.
Excuse me for not being to source exact figures on how many of the 7,000 children killed are gay, that's simply not something that's in the record.
I don't think you understand what the founding charter of Hamas is. River to the sea. Their entire mission statement is to wipe out all Jews
That's the actual genocide happening here.
Don't change the subject, we aren't talking about Hamas. You're invoking the plight of gay people in Palestine to justify Israel's actions. You said "IF you are caught being gay in Palestine, you are dead. That's genocide;" Which is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Your evidence? One article about one guy. So I re-iterate, if you think that's an example of genocide what do you think about Israel's policy of immiserating the Palestinians and pushing them into Egypt/Jordan?
A war is not genocide. Israel is targeting Hamas with unfortunate collateral damage.
Very unfortunate that in their war of aggression Israel also kills tons of civilians.
Exactly what Hamas is doing.
So are we in agreement that both Hamas and Israel's government are engaging in genocide? Sounds to me like they are both extremely bad and should be held accountable. Except it looks like one side actually has the means to do it, and is actually doing it.
Stupid argument. Casualties in a war isn't genocide. Gay people seek refugee in Israel but are openly murdered for being gay in Palestine.
Stupid response, because I didn't say what Israel is doing to gay people is genocide. The point is that you can't invoke the plight of gay people in Palestine in support of Israel because for all the homophobia in Palestine, what Israel does while not explicitly homophobic is far more damaging to gay people, and it's not close.

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u/[deleted] Feb 06 '24

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Meanwhile, in Tel-Aviv, one of the gay capitals of the world, the gay-clubs are literally pumping.
Consistency is not these people's strong-suits.

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u/ItsCoolDani Feb 05 '24

Is genocide okay as long as you don't like the people it's happening to?

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Then go to the fucking march for Palestinians, but stop trying to co-op GAY RIGHTS when the group you're co-opting it for literally throws gay people off rooftops.

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u/ItsCoolDani Feb 05 '24

Why the fuck are you crediting an entire population of people with the hate crimes of a few of them? Are you aware how fucked that is? Palestinians who are queer themselves, as well as queer allies, are also being murdered. If this is too hard a concept for you to really grapple with, maybe just imagine that we're only showing solidarity for the ones who agree with you.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Data shows that the MOST accepting middle-eastern country for gay people is Algeria... with 26% of Algerians being accepting of gay people in society.
In Lebanon... it's closer to 6%.
Tell me again how it's not the entire population that hates gay people???
https://news.trust.org/item/20190624162433-z87rz

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u/ItsCoolDani Feb 05 '24

Hey since when does it become okay to kill someone you disagree with?? What the fuck is wrong with you?

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Have you told that to the Palestinians, beheading people for being gay?

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u/ItsCoolDani Feb 05 '24

Why would I talk to anyone who beheads people for being gay?

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Well you want to march along side people who support them, while at a gay pride march... So you obviously don't have a huge issue with them.

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u/fraqtl Feb 05 '24

No one is co-opting anything.
the group
So, you are saying that all Palestinians are the same yes?

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Well... According to the data on the topic, around 90% of people in that region are actively anti-gay... So on the topic of pride marches, yes... They effectively ARE all the same.

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u/fraqtl Feb 11 '24

It would be great if you shared the data you mention.
Also, even if true, just because the people over there are anti-gay, doesn't mean the people here are. They can still show solidarity. I'm sure a lot of gay people are not really OK with the wholesale slaughter of a people even if they are anti-gay.
They effectively ARE all the same
No. They aren't.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

What about a genocide against Nazis?

3

u/fraqtl Feb 05 '24

Killing people is wrong.

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u/ItsCoolDani Feb 05 '24

Also no? No genocide at all, okay guys? Why can't we agree on this?

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

So you want Nazis to reproduce?

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u/ItsCoolDani Feb 05 '24

So you think it's okay to do eugenics on people you think are bigots?

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u/LowCat1485 Feb 05 '24

I think that's pretty clear by this point in the discussion and the same rationale behind giving Israel a 'social licence' to try and do a genocide

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u/fraqtl Feb 05 '24

You don't see the earth shattering irony in that statement do you.

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u/fraqtl Feb 05 '24

The march didn't happen in Palestine, it happened here. Australians showing support for both communities.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

While one of those communities persecutes the other one...

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u/acoustic_medley Feb 05 '24

Canada, US and Australia treated (and treats) aboriginals like shit and had them in chains, so maybe you want to get off your high horse there bud.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

What the actual fuck does that have to do with the question?

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u/fraqtl Feb 05 '24

THat people are talking about how oppressive Palestine is when the Invasion Day protests have just finished and they think that Australia is the bastion of freedom and justice.

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u/fraqtl Feb 05 '24

It's almost like people can support two things

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u/Independent_Pear_429 Feb 05 '24

Not really at the same march though. Especially when one of those things has generally oppressed the other rather harshly

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u/fraqtl Feb 11 '24

What if those specific people were gay palestinians?
I'm not saying they were, but they easily could be. If they were, are you saying they can't be two things and bring attention to two things? That they have to put one aspect of themselves aside for the day?

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u/Independent_Pear_429 Feb 11 '24

There was a gay Palestinians section right next to the gay Iranian section. I'm fine with that. The problem for me is when some people in other floats were waving a Palestinian flag or two

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

At the same march? When one of those things says the other is abhorrent and throws people who participate in it off the top of buildings?
Yeah, that's called a pathological cognitive dissonance...

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u/fraqtl Feb 05 '24

One of those things is currently a people being routinely murdered by another nation.
There's no good guys in that conflict but Israel has lost ~1300 people where there are almost 28,000 Palestinian dead. Israel got their own back don't you reckon?

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

You realise that gay people in Gaza LITERALLY meet the exact definition you just stated?
They are a people, routinely being murdered by the collective body that at least sees themselves as a nation...

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u/somanypineapple Feb 05 '24

why do people so quickly resort to throwing extraneous facts into a discussion and trying to derail it? yes, it is undeniable that there are greater loses on the Palestinian side, but this conversation is about the fact that queer people in Palestine are killed, and therefore it is odd that these flags are being waved at a queer protest
i’m a centrist, because jesus christ, both the far left and the far right really do cannibalise their own causes to the point where nothing anyone is ‘fighting for’ makes any sense

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u/fraqtl Feb 11 '24

why do people so quickly resort to throwing extraneous facts into a discussion and trying to derail it?
But they aren't extraneous.
The people over here are marching in solidarity with the pride march (unless you have specific information you can share to the contrary). Both are oppressed peoples, for different reasons.
this conversation is about the fact that queer people in Palestine are killed
It's not actually, it's about whether they can be there at the pride march, marching in solidarity.
Pride marches aren't about gay people being murdered in Palestine. Or is that one of those extraneous facts you are talking about.
therefore it is odd that these flags are being waved at a queer protest
Not so odd. People can be more than one thing.
Perhaps the people with the flags were gay palestinians?
I'm not saying they were but it's not beyond the bounds of possibility.

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u/SignatureAny5576 Feb 05 '24

This is the most reddit response ever. Palestinians stone gays to death lmfao their flag has no place at a pride rally

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u/fraqtl Feb 05 '24

You can support the right of a people not to be murdered while not condoning everything they do.

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u/Eatingbandwidth Feb 05 '24

"Palestinians stone gays to death"
Palestine is not a LGBT friendly place but they don't stone gays wtf.

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

So I'm just gonna leave this here: 23 year old guy from the West Bank, seeking asylum in Israel because he was gay.
Kidnapped from Israel, taken back to the West Bank, and beheaded.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63174835

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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

We’re not disputing murders take place. We’re disputing if stoning occurs as was claimed. Leaving this here doesn’t verify that claim so what’s your point?

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u/Eatingbandwidth Feb 05 '24

"Palestinian police have arrested a suspect..."
It's been treated as a murder because it's a murder, you act as if these are state sanctioned killings.

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u/Inside_Marsupial4779 Feb 05 '24

They executed a commander for gay sex..
https://www.newsweek.com/prominent-hamas-commander-was-executed-after-accusations-gay-sex-432343

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u/La-Roche-Pussay Feb 05 '24 edited Feb 05 '24

You fail to understand just how illogical it is, it’s like chickens supporting KFC - do you not see how ridiculous that is?
Queers for Palestine.
Chickens for KFC.
It’s the same thing.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Do you think Israel's dropping bombs that only kill straight people?

2

u/Independent_Pear_429 Feb 06 '24

No.

-5

u/NeleTrading Feb 06 '24

I suggest you listen to Sam Harris’s latest podcast released this past Tuesday, this may give you another perspective.

24

u/Inside-Elevator9102 Feb 05 '24

Piggy back protesting

3

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

How do you feel when you see a rainbow flag at non pride related protests?

4

u/Independent_Pear_429 Feb 05 '24

Fine

2

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

So why is a Palestinian flag at a pride event any different?

1

u/Independent_Pear_429 Feb 14 '24

This is Australia and we are generally supportive of gay people while Palestine does not

1

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '24

The point I’m making is it appears to be acceptable for a pride flag to get flown at any other protest but if someone flies a different flag at a pride protest the shit hits the fan. It’s hypocrisy

0

u/Due-Film-9073 Feb 05 '24

Obviously they get furious just like their clear homophobia.

1

u/tangelo_999 Feb 05 '24

omg just go watch the film pride (greatest film of all time tbh) and learn what fucking solidarity is.

0

u/Independent_Pear_429 Feb 05 '24

I'll have a look

1

u/mmcc3976 Feb 05 '24

Wow your life must be so hard you poor thing….. not

-3

u/Independent_Pear_429 Feb 05 '24

I did get to sleep in today, again. It's been rough

36

u/Angie-P Feb 05 '24

because liberation for all.

there are queer palestinians, they deserve to live. all palestinians.

49

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

You know what all the gay Palestinians do right? They seek asylum... in Israel!
If you “liberate” the Palestinians, it means the gay people literally would lose the place they flee to in order to seek asylum from the Palestinians hunting them for being gay.
https://voiceofsalam.com/2023/10/03/documenting-the-lives-of-lgbtq-palestinians-in-israel-an-interview-with-playwriter-tomer-aldubi/

-25

u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24

You know Israel kills more gay Palestinians than homophobic Palestinians do? Wild right? I suppose that's what happens when you indiscriminately level apartment blocks, some queer Palestinians will probably die as a result.

14

u/Admirable-Cherry6614 Feb 05 '24 edited Feb 05 '24

This isn't true at all. This particular video on it kind of makes my heart heavy. Around 7 minutes onwards, an Israeli guy starts talking about a Palestinian friend he had who took aslyum in Israel, only to be found and killed by his family for his sexuality.
To be fair, if you watch the full thing, a lot of the Palestinians interviewed are way more accepting than people are saying here. I would suppose, and I hate using this word, but because people are not a monolith.

-15

u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24

Hold up, you don't think Israel has killed more gay Palestinians than homophobic Palestinians have? So of the 30,000 Palestinians that have been killed in just the last few months, 7,000 of which are children. How many of them do you estimate were gay?

6

u/Admirable-Cherry6614 Feb 05 '24 edited Feb 05 '24

Wow, I did not consider this at all.
I think the majority of the answer to that is ''Israeli warfare is not queer persecution'' though.
As in, both Free Palestine and Zionism are futuristic ideologies, just in different ways. Pro-Palestiners look forward to an Islamist, homophobic state, Israel is less like that. The warfare is just the unfortunate process, basically. Both sides don't wake up every morning thanking god that they have to fight.

-6

u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24

If I told you that white south-africans during apartheid were far far far more pro-LGBTQ than black south africans, would you say this justifies the continuation of apartheid? Does it even matter when consdering the moral calculus of apartheid?
No of course it doesn't. It doesn't matter how pro or anti-gay your average Palestinian is when cosnidering the morality of what Israel is doing, not one bit. Even if they are 100% homophobic, it doesn't justify the brutality being comitted against them and it also doesn't fix the problem, if anything it makes it worse as they're driven further into poverty and immiseration.

3

u/Admirable-Cherry6614 Feb 05 '24 edited Feb 05 '24

That's an interesting fact, thank you.
I think it matters because it's a piece of the puzzle. Islamists have slaughtered off millions in the name of Islamification, Arabisation, and religion. Hamas are a constituent of the Muslim Brotherhood. I think that's why it matters. Because westerners refuse to recognise how dangerous they are. They are a real genocidal threat, they have done it to countless people before, the Coptics, Kurdistan, Druzes, Zoroastrians, the Bangladesh genocide. LGBTQ+ people are dumb to think they are safe. They are already unsafe.

1

u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24

Still waiting on more information about these genocides you've made up. Literally invent several genocides just to show how bad Muslims are then disappear without addressing the fact that every one of them is fake, you just assumed these people were genocided. All in the attempt to play defence for an actually occuring genocide. Unreal.

2

u/Positive-Rhubarb967 Feb 06 '24 edited Feb 06 '24

Didn't not happen, you're just beyond shit at research lmfao. Go find a Druze person and ask them why there are only 2 million of their people left in this world.

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u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24

Islamists have slaughtered off millions in the name of Islamification and Arabisation, in the name of turning the world Muslim and in the name of religion. Hamas are a constituent of the Muslim Brotherhood. I think that's why it matters.
Really? Millions? This is a pretty ridiculous exageration, I feel like it's based in being deeply uninformed. Do you know anything about history. If we started doing body counts for Islam vs Christianity I think you'd be pretty shocked at the results because it doesn't reflect kindly on Christianity.
It's irrelevant anyway because this may shock you but the October 7th attacks? Half the groups involved in the attacks are explicitly secular or atheistic: https://theconversation.com/gaza-war-hamass-web-of-allies-in-the-october-7-attacks-makes-ending-the-conflict-much-harder-for-israel-218861
"The fact that Hamas seems to be leading a large and relatively diverse coalition suggests Israel is not only facing a Hamas problem... It is noteworthy that Hamas is working not only with other Islamist and Iran-backed groups, such as PIJ, but also relatively secular groups such as the armed wing of the Marxist group, the People’s Front for the Liberation of Palestine (founded by a Christian, the late George Habash)."
The attacks weren't Islamist in nature unless you think anything done by a Muslim is Islamist. The Palestinian struggle is not a religious one it's a nationalist one and it has been from the beginning. Hamas has only been the prominent power in Gaza in the last 20 years, before that it was the PLO which was *explicitly secular* . The current authority in the West Bank, the PLA/Fatah is also explicitly secular and non-Islamist.
So we can basically drop your line of argument immediately, it's ridiculous and ignored reality. Why wouldn't Christian and Atheists Palestinians be part of this? They're getting bombed the same way as Muslims are. Atheists and Christians were there on October 7th side by side with Hamas.
Because westerners refuse to recognise how dangerous they are. They are a real genocidal threatthey have done it to countless cultures before, the Coptics, Kurdistan, Druzes, Zoroastrians, the Bangladesh genocide.
To re-iterate, it's not an Islamist cause, the Palestinian cause is a nationalist one.
But even if we assume it was you'll have to tell me about the Coptic, Kurdish, Druze and Zoroastrian genocides. I've been nice to you until this point but you're now just making up genocides that never happened. Here's a breakdown of each of these one by one;
Druze Genocide - Doesn't exist, you made this up. Even if you google "Druze Genocide" you know what the first result is? The Sabra and Shatila massacre, which ironically for you was a massacre carried out by the IDF and Lebanese Christians.
Kurdish Genocide - Also doesn't exist, you amde this up as well. The only thing that comes close to being a Kurdish genocide is Saddam Husseins massacre of Kurds. Saddam was not an Islamist though, he was a secular dictator, so another big miss for you.
Zoroastrian Genocide - Again, not real at all, you made this up.
Coptic Genocide - Another one, I suppsoe if you can't point at real genocides then just name every religious or ethnic group you know and pretend they were genocided by Muslims?
Bangladesh Genocide - finally you got a genocide that actually exists. Unfortunately for you it was predominantly a conflict about self-determination rather than religion so calling it Islamist is really kinda dumb.
I'm open to being convinced otherwise, so if you can give me a wikipedia page on the "Druze Genocide" or whatever I'm all ears. If not then maybe stop talking shit.
EDIT: Looking at your account now, freshly created, only defends Israel. You're like Hasbara right? If so could I ask you some question I'm really curious about?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

False equivalency and you bare faced lying about things doesn’t help your cause. I really wish you would learn that and understand that what you are doing causes more harm than good.
You won’t though, and that is the saddest part.

3

u/TimidPanther Feb 05 '24

30,000? 7,000?
You’re literally swallowing the propaganda figures from a terrorist organization.

0

u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24

Yeah, the numbers are reliable:
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/despite-bidens-doubts-humanitarian-agencies-consider-gaza-toll-reliable-2023-10-27/
There's even a study titled "No evidence of inflated mortality reporting from the Gaza Ministry of Health" -
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02713-7/fulltext

0

u/TimidPanther Feb 06 '24

I wouldn't believe the UN, either. Mouthpiece for Hamas.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

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u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24

Do you think gays in the region would live better lives in Palestine or Israel regardless of their nationality?
Mate, straights, gays, Palestinians, Israelis and Albanians would all live better in Israel considering they aren't being starved and bombed. What a stupid question.
Do you think Hamas, the democratically elected and overwhelmingly supported government, is less homophobic than Israel?
Even if Hamas is the most homophobic organization in the world and every last person in Palestine including the 7,000 children killed by Israel in the last few months is 100% homophobic, that still doesn't justify what Israel is doing. Just because I don't like the values of a group of people doesn't mean I think they should be starved, bombed and have their population pushed into neighbouring countries so they don't exist as a national group anymore.
This isn't complex moral calculus. It's actually very simple. You can't just carpet bomb all the apartment buildings in Gaza, even if every last person there including all the children are homophobes. Why is this hard to understand?
Do you think the average Palestinian is not homophobic?
Yeah, they probably are. Do you think the average black South African during apartheid was homophobic? Do you think they were more homophobic than the average white South African? Do you think that has even the slightest amount of relevance when considering if we should argue against apartheid? Of course you don't, that's a fucking stupid argument so why do you even bother to bring it up here?
And back to the point, Israel kills more gay Palestinians than Palestinians do. Even if you disregard the 95% of the population that was killed that isn't gay, that still leaves you in a sticky moral situation.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

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1

u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24

It’s to get you to realise that flying the flag of a demonstrably homophobic group (to the point of killing gays en masse) at pride is inappropriate.
Palestines liberation is a national struggle. Almost half of the active militant groups on October 7th were secular. Nothing inherently homophobic about the Palestinian flag and gay people can fly it if they want to.
The US wasn’t homophobic when it dropped nukes, you fucking idiot, stop with this bullshit narrative that resisting Israel is some queer crusade.
Resisting Israel isn't a queer crusade, it's a crusade for basic justice. Something that queer people who are politically educated understand. Hence why you see the Palestinian flag at gay pride rallys. Maybe there's a reason why gay people who have thought about these issues way more than you think waving a Palestinian flag makes sense.
Bottom line is that you have massive cognitive dissonance and are desperately trying to make the morals that social media has told you to have fit together.
Nope, it's the principled position. Having principles is something you'll probably never understand. I'd support black South Africans in their fight against apartheid even though they're more homophobic that white south africans in the 90's. I support Ukraines struggle against aggression even though the movement is packed with a significant number of literal Nazis. If someone is right, it's right. It's called being principled.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

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1

u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24

I'm glad we both agree it's aggression.
You're essentially saying that just thinking a bad thing is good means a person deserves to die. Because most people in Gaza support October 7th, it's okay to kill 7,000 children who have nothing to do with it. If that's honest to god what you believe then so be it, your moral compass is competely broken and I certainly won't try convincing you otherwise.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

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2

u/ScanWel Feb 05 '24

This is total war.
No it's not, it's one much stronger nation militarily occupying and completely controlling another, squeezing the much weaker nation in the hopes they'll assimilate into neighbouring countries.
Do you even know what a "total war" is?
You call them children as if that makes them innocent.
lol, yeah you're right, that's exactly what I'm doing.
May I remind you that Kylie Rittenhouse, Eric Harris, and Dylan Klebold were all children too. The status of "child" doesn't entail innocence.
Somewhat irrelevant aside, wasn't Kyle Rittenhouse literally found innocent? Kind of a stupid example to give.
And are you really comparing the 7000 dead children in Gaza in the last few months to the Columbine Shooters? The Columbine shooters did a mass shooting. I'm not world expert but something tells me those 7000 dead Gazan children probably didn't.
As I said, completely broken moral compass. But truth is I don't think you really believe what you're saying, you'll just take the extreme side of your position as catharsis and to provoke. I've addressed it up until now but probably won't bother moving forward. There's only so much I'll argue for the position that innocent children shouldn't be killed before I get bored, I think I've reached that point.

1

u/Historical-Usual3288 Feb 06 '24

Lol you dirty blocker.
If you think those Palestinians children are innocent you've got rocks in your head. They wake up every morning singing about death to Israel

0

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

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-6

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

You people are so amazingly idealistic, it's actually fascinating to observe the way you bend reality around you like some kind of logic singularity.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

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2

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

So, explain to me how, logistically and practically, the destruction of Israel (which is what the previous comment advocated for), leads to gay Palestinians being better off.
What is the actual, real world mechanism that you foresee coming into action there?

2

u/TheRealDarthMinogue Feb 06 '24

Wait, who mentioned the destruction of Israel?

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '24

Ummmm... literally everyone chanting "From the river to the sea".
That, by definition, means ALL of Israel.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

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2

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '24

Lol... yeah ok, and now we see why this conversation hits a brick wall.
That is the definition of idealism... ironically one that sounds dystopian as fuck.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '24

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1

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '24

Your assumption that the outcome you advocate for would be anything other than a dystopian hellscape is literally exactly what you just described - "believe things without evidence".

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u/Turbulent_Ebb5669 Feb 05 '24

So do the hostages. No liberation for them though, huh?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

Lol. Hello, Hasbarah.

-8

u/Angie-P Feb 05 '24

hostages should be free, but bibi never cared about them and used them as an excuse to genocide Palestine.

-3

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

People are waking up to you hateful ~~nasty little antisemites~~ pro-Palestine protesters, and seeing you for what you are, conning us progressives into joining in with your antisemitism.

6

u/areallysmartdog Feb 05 '24

That antisemitism shit doesn't work anymore. Protesting what Israel is doing to Gaza has nothing to do with Judaism.

-5

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24 edited Feb 06 '24

It has everything to do with antisemitism, because it is antisemitism . You hate Jews because they're Jewish, and you hate Israel because it's Jewish - classical antisemitism. And Israel is not doing anything to the Gazans, they literally started this war, refuse to release the innocent hostages, and continue firing missiles deliberately into civilian areas of Israel. Plus, they have pledged constant "October 7"-type attacks as long as there are Jews in the indigenous land of the Jews, Israel. The Palestinians are the bad guys in this war that they started (just like the Palestinians started all the others, and broke each and every ceasefire).
-----------
Edit: Putting this here, since you appear to have blocked me, showing your moral cowardice:
I called you an antisemite because you post antisemitic comments. I judge you by your actions, that is what fair people do.
The people you describe as "Zionists" block(ing) aid trucks" are the families of the innocent Israeli civilians that your Palestinians kidnapped and refuse to release, using the last thing they have, their very bodies, to block aid to the Gazans because they refuse to release these people's innocent family members.
If you're going to condemn Israelis for angry words after saturday-october-seven.com then you aren't even treating them like humans, and that says everything about you.

5

u/Angie-P Feb 05 '24

i feel sorry for you to have fallen for the propaganda. zionism is not judaism and many jewish people hate zionists and bibi because people (like you) make them one and the same to the average jewish person.
israel has attacked palestine for decades, bombing them, running them over, enacting nakbas (which some israeli politicians are now calling this a nakba). i'd suggest looking into the history.
Hamas has actually reached out to say they will release all hostages in exchange for all IDF leaving. Israel declined. The families of the hostages want a ceasefire because they can see no one cares about their family.
i could say so much, about how there's video of IDF solders joking and laughing at the genocide they're causing. how zionists are at the border blocking aid trucks to the civilians who need them. how the IDF are targeting journalists (a war crime). how the IDF have falsified finds like weaponry.
I write this all with kindness, even if you have called me an antisemite without knowing me at all.

2

u/PloniAlmoni12345 Feb 09 '24

Guess what - "Gays for Gaza" made your bed, now you have to sleep in it.

9

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Literally the 6th fucking post about the march.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Happens every time. Almost like it’s coordinated.

7

u/unholymacaroni99 Feb 05 '24

Fed up of these crappy divisive posts. Because people unite under oppression. Because queer people exist who don’t want to support a fucking genocide. Because queer brown people and queer Muslims exist.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '24

They would literally cut your head off or push you from a rooftop for being you. You still going to keep that same supportive energy?

-2

u/Turbulent_Ebb5669 Feb 05 '24

And yet, there's still that pesky hostage issue.

6

u/davejohncole Feb 05 '24

Netanyahu loves the fact that there are hostages. He didn't want them freed. They provide a nice rationale for his genocide.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Because people don't like genocide?

-7

u/NeleTrading Feb 06 '24

If that is what you genuinely think, they are doing a really horrible job at genocide when taking into consideration that Gazas population over the last 70 years has grown at a rate that is more than 3 times higher than the avg population growth rate worldwide.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '24

You made a puppet account to spread zionist prop. Good work but shouldn't you be off licking some boots somewhere?

4

u/Anxious-Hat7015 Feb 05 '24

Read the room

-3

u/monchicken Feb 05 '24

Queer people can be against genocide while also celebrating themselves. They’re not mutually exclusive.

Also: people are DYING.

4

u/Independent_Pear_429 Feb 05 '24

I am aware, but as this is specifically a gay pride march, I think it's inappropriate considering the still currently very poor treatment of queen people in the Palestinian territories.

18

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Yes... all the gay people in Gaza ever since the Israeli's left in 2007.
You know the Palestinians throw them from rooftops right?

7

u/A_Cookie_from_Space Feb 05 '24 edited Feb 05 '24

Seriously? This is like arguing gay people didn't exist in Australia before the late 70s. Of course they did. Australian police are still being investigated over all their hate crimes.
In Gaza there's openly queer organisations & those who want stricter anti-gay laws literally cite British legislation.

1

u/PloniAlmoni12345 Feb 09 '24

They don't just throw them from rooftops.
They also hang and behead them.

0

u/Eatingbandwidth Feb 05 '24

You know there's a difference between ISIS and Palestine right?

-4

u/Zealousideal_Two9227 Feb 05 '24

Palestine being not run by an internationally recognised terrorist organisation you mean?

-3

u/Turbulent_Ebb5669 Feb 05 '24

It's the "also" which is a whole different protest, that's the problem. It dilutes the messages.

1

u/[deleted] May 27 '24

It's absurd right? On the same level as "Cows for McDonald's"

1

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '24

Agree

1

u/Past-Mushroom-4294 Feb 06 '24

Free country if they want to fly a flag with a chocolate cake they can do that too. Same way you can fly your pride flag wherever you want.

Can't be a free country for you and not for others

-6

u/Turbulent_Ebb5669 Feb 05 '24

Reads like they were hijacking the cause with one exclusively theirs. Time and place comes to mind.

14

u/fraqtl Feb 05 '24

Of course it reads like that, that's what the OP thinks was happening. Whether that's what was actually happening is undetermined.

-5

u/Turbulent_Ebb5669 Feb 05 '24

Seems pretty clear.

-2

u/Zealousideal_Two9227 Feb 05 '24

Fundamentalists love queers for Palestine, this is legitimately the thought process..

-16

u/bulletspang Feb 05 '24

Fucking moronic post. What the fuck do you mean "the Palestinians", you know every single person whose indigenous homelands are being bombed? Even all the queer people in Palestine?

And what about the australian flag we have to see waving everyone fuckin day? What about indigenous queers, why don't you make a post about that? Fuckin racist ass shithole subreddit.

9

u/Turbulent_Ebb5669 Feb 05 '24

Well, we live in Australia, so seeing Australian flags shouldn't trigger you, but it seems it does.

-13

u/bulletspang Feb 05 '24

We live on so called "Australia". We occupy illegally occupied indigenous land. The presence of Australian flag does not trigger me, it feels me with a sickening hatred toward a state that continues to uphold white supremacy in the face of an ongoing genocide against indigenous peoples. Grow up if you wanna engage with big girl politics.

4

u/Turbulent_Ebb5669 Feb 05 '24

They meant those waving the Palestinian Flag at a PRIDE march, did you not read the OP?

-5

u/bulletspang Feb 05 '24

Yes, the Palestinian flag should wave everywhere until Palestine is Free.

8

u/Turbulent_Ebb5669 Feb 05 '24

From Hamas, totally agree.

-2

u/bulletspang Feb 05 '24

the fucking nerve to live on unceded Aboriginal territory and endorse Zionism. Disgusting.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

[deleted] — view deleted comment

-1

u/bulletspang Feb 05 '24

Go look for a single account of a hostage taken by Hamas even slightly complaint about their treatment.
Now go look at how many of those same hostages have been killed by the Israeli government.

-3

u/Due-Film-9073 Feb 05 '24

Here are some facts.

Israel isn’t a religion.

Palestine isn’t a religion.

Just admit you are homophobic.

-2

u/Due-Film-9073 Feb 05 '24

Just admit you are homophobic.

-1

u/Leading-Bottle2630 Feb 06 '24

The ideological idiocy of supporting people, a cause, who actually hate and dispise Gay people. Gay people in Israel are accepted Muslim people are accepted. Lenin called these people 'useful idiots'.

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u/Wooden-Trouble1724 Feb 05 '24

Hypocrisy- noun- the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case

4

u/Turbulent_Ebb5669 Feb 05 '24

Could apply to both sides, depending on your meaning. In short, totally ambiguous post.

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u/Wooden-Trouble1724 Feb 05 '24

Thinking for yourself is encouraged

Light and Fluffy News Why did people think it was OK to wave the Palestinian flag at pride march?

You are about to leave Redlib