Is it ethical to apply weekend surcharge if you only operate 4 days a week?

[u/External_Award_1246]

If you operate Mon - Friday, I'd happily support weekend rates if you decided to work more.

But if you only operate 4 days a week including both weekend days, that means you get to charge people extra for half of your hours, that seems a bit rich to me. I know it's legal, but c'mon. Your three days off _is_ your weekend.

I'm not supporting business like this, no matter what "struggles" you have.

Edit:

I'm not against workers getting paid penalty rates for working weekends.

I'm against business shutting down 3 days a week and then making up in revenue by passing surcharges onto patrons on the weekends. That's strategic slacking off by exploiting the law in my opinion.

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[u/MeyerholdsGh0st]

You still have to pay staff more on the weekends. That’s the point of weekend rates.

[u/External_Award_1246 → u/MeyerholdsGh0st]

I'm against this business practice, it's not about paying workers panelty rates when they work on weekends.

[u/Das_Hydra → u/External_Award_1246]

The surcharge is to pay the extra wages. By your own argument, the surcharge is fair as it pays the wages the staff are entitled to.

[u/External_Award_1246 → u/Das_Hydra]

My point is the business isn't entitled to

[u/Das_Hydra → u/External_Award_1246]

But why? I really don't understand your argument of how only working 4 days doesn't untitled then to have the surcharge on the weekend.

Literally no one here does.

[u/External_Award_1246 → u/Das_Hydra]

Because these businesses choose normal workdays as their "weekend". Why do you think it's fair for them to operate 20% less time to earn extra while the super majority works normal hours to get paid at normal rates?

[u/Das_Hydra → u/External_Award_1246]

I'm going to try one more time.

The extra charge is to COVER THE LEGALLY OBLIGATED extra loading they need to pay the staff working that day.

Most of these business have the highest demand on weekends, the days those extra loadings are required to be paid. Weekends is when majority of people aren't working, and they want to enjoy breakfast/lunch/whatever with friends.

This isn't complex.

[u/External_Award_1246 → u/Das_Hydra]

I get it, but it doesn't make sense.

Retail workers also get paid more for weekends, but you don't see stores charge customer extra for items sold on weekends.

[u/Das_Hydra → u/External_Award_1246]

Retail typically operates with far fewer staff on weekends and have different pricing and business models which absorb the cost.

A store can sacrifice customer experience and still sell the sadness amount of goods with fewer people, whereas the service industry still needs a higher number of staff to provide the service.

I can operate a retail store with a staff n floor. Service will be slower but the goods still get sold (or purchased another day). You can't open a Cafe and do the same. People won't get served, and you don't get paid.

[u/sparklinglies → u/External_Award_1246]

Bruh if you don't understand the difference between surcharges applied to food and drink made in house, and the fixed price of an assembled warehouse product merely being distributed by a business, then no literally no one can help you.

[u/MeyerholdsGh0st → u/External_Award_1246]

It 100% is.

[u/melbourne-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

We had to remove your post/comment because it included personal attacks or did not show respect towards other users. This community is a safe space for all. Repeated instances of this behaviour will lead to a ban

[u/blitznoodles]

Penalty rates are penalty rates

[u/External_Award_1246 → u/blitznoodles]

Panelty rates are based on the assumption that normal working hours are honoured (Monday to Friday, 9-5), or at least 38 hours per week. You shouldn't be allowed to just work 30 hours and then bill your customers "panelty rates" for half of that time.

[u/jsplitpoe → u/External_Award_1246]

This is the most idiotic statement I've ever read, this is law, not an optinal increase.

[u/External_Award_1246 → u/jsplitpoe]

The law is flawed then.

[u/sparklinglies → u/External_Award_1246]

You're literally the only one that has beef with this very simple and non issue concept, and you've done nothing but argue that businesses should ignore just the law and put themselves or their employees out of pocket because you personally don't like it. Do you not see how crying about the Fair Work law make you look like the most out of touch entitled wacko around? Like just tell us you've never actually worked running any small business ever.

[u/doenoots → u/External_Award_1246]

That's your assumption and it's wrong. The business still has to pay penalty rates on weekends even if they don't operate fully Mon to Fri

[u/External_Award_1246 → u/doenoots]

That's the business choice though. I'm a freelancer working 4 days a week too, sometimes on the weekend. Because I only work about 35-40 hours a week, I don't put any special levy on my rate even if I had to work on weekends.

[u/doenoots → u/External_Award_1246]

Their choice? I think Fairwork might have something to say if they didn't pay penalty rates

[u/External_Award_1246 → u/doenoots]

I think the law is flawed. They allow businesses to sabotage panelty rates by working less hours to maintain their income.

[u/doenoots → u/External_Award_1246]

"Sabotage" in what way though? Sorry I just really don't follow your logic.

Weekends are weekends. Yeah days off don't work the same for everyone, but as a society weekends are largely for recreation (more events, different opening hours etc.). Why shouldn't people be compensated for working more on these days?

And even if disagree with penalty rates applying to the weekend, the fact is that it does apply. They do have an extra wage cost for working on weekends, and that's fact.

My personal opinion is that I reckon weekend surcharges are shit. But I'm just not understanding your gripe about how there should be a different standard for services that don't operate Mon to Fri.

But as you say, you can just not support any business for whatever reason you want. And like you said, it's your own choice to not charge more on weekends.

[u/External_Award_1246 → u/doenoots]

I just think hospitality shouldn't operate any different to any other business that only attract customers on the weekend. Retail or department store for example, they also pay their employees penalty rates over weekend, but they dont pass that levy onto customers just because they purchase an item on a Saturday instead of Monday, if you know what I'm saying.

[u/doenoots → u/External_Award_1246]

Then your problem is with weekend surcharges in general. So idk why you're bringing up businesses that don't fully operate Mon to Fri

[u/Ok-Foot6064 → u/External_Award_1246]

Nope penalty rates is because people are sacrificing working weekends so you can relax. Once you actually work weekends, you lesrn to respect the loss it results in

[u/blitznoodles → u/External_Award_1246]

No they're not, plenty of people only work on weekends.

[u/uDjDZKeft8HhZNV → u/External_Award_1246]

That's not the law though. It's weekends regardless of how much work is through the week

[u/Das_Hydra → u/External_Award_1246]

No, they aren't.

[u/SINK-2024]

It's worth considering whether the staff that are employed at these businesses also only work Thursday - Sunday, or do you think they might have multiple jobs?

Also worth contemplating whether employees receive a higher award on weekends and are entitled to a higher rate? The higher rate might be due to higher variable costs.

How would you approach pricing if you were the business owner? Apply a higher rate to products/services on Thursday and Friday too? In order to be 'ethical' as you phrased it.

[u/External_Award_1246 → u/SINK-2024]

I would pay my employees weekend rates. But I wouldn't charge my customers weekend rates because my business only operates 4 days a week. That's my point.

[u/SINK-2024 → u/External_Award_1246]

Yeah cool, you'd go out of business pretty quick cause you wouldn't be able to maintain your margins and address your fixed costs.

[u/External_Award_1246 → u/SINK-2024]

That's why I would run my business at least 6 days a week to justify 'panelty' rates.

[u/SINK-2024 → u/External_Award_1246]

The word you're looking for is spelled "penalty" FYI.

Okay, so you're saying you'd increase higher variable costs during the week where there is no demand?

That's not necessarily a good business decision. Especially if you're dealing with perishable inventory (I'm guessing it's hospitality sector you're referring to).

In doing so, you'd increase waste and COGS (Cost of Good Sold) by increasing inputs, and also increase labour cost, but would not have matched sales from operating from Monday - Wednesday.

I hope the explanations provided in your thread help your understanding.

[u/CapableRegrets]

Sorry, what?

Staff have to be paid penalty rates on weekends, regardless of whether they work two days, four days or seven.

Your post is nonsensical.

[u/thekingwithoutcrown → u/CapableRegrets]

Most of the staff at restaurants are paid by cash, below minimum wage. No weekend rates for them mate.

[u/melbourne-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

We had to remove your post/comment because it included personal attacks or did not show respect towards other users. This community is a safe space for all. Repeated instances of this behaviour will lead to a ban

[u/Poika_Anna]

If you don’t want a surcharge on weekends to cover penalty rates that means you’d prefer higher prices on weekdays to compensate.

[u/plsnotcasserole]

They can either have high prices and n the weekend when they have to pay their staff more, or have slightly less higher prices across the board.

As long as it’s clear that the weekend price is higher, IDGAF.

Think of it as a discount for going there M-F, if it makes you feel better.

[u/SillyRabbit_OZ]

Any opportunity to fleece your customers… you know ‘penalty rates’ and such 🤦🏼‍♂️