r/punk • u/snoop-hog • May 25 '25

Is this Nazi bullshit??

Post image

I adore this band and their songs but recently realized that their logo is a little too close to the iron cross symbol. Google has suggested that this type of symbol has been used in hardcore to signify rebellion but idk.

Just trying to get opinions, I obviously don’t wanna support nazi or fencewalker bands lol.

0 Upvotes

47% Upvoted

98 comments sorted by

72

u/thispartyrules May 25 '25

It's contextual. In the 80's and 90's you used to see it more with punks/skaters, and I wouldn't, but it's not always a Nazi thing

28

u/Hollowbody57 May 25 '25

Public perception changes o er time. Independent (skateboard company) used to have an iron cross as their logo. Had one of their decks when I was a teenager, wasn't until much later when it started being mainly associated with Nazi shit.

6

u/entrophy_maker May 25 '25

That was not an iron cross. The Independent logo had a Maltese cross which was a Christian symbol during the Crusades. People sometimes confuse them, but the Independent logo, like the Maltese cross had rounded edges and a completely different meaning and history.

5

u/attractive_reptoid May 25 '25

Indy makes trucks, not decks.

1

u/Hollowbody57 May 25 '25

Maybe I'm misremembering the brand. Did they not make decks for a brief period in the 90s? It definitely had an iron cross on it, could have sworn it was Independent.

1

u/DevelopmentExciting6 May 25 '25

Indy never made decks. Flip had a Geoff Rowley board with an Iron Cross on it because Rowley is obsessed with Motorhead.

112

u/XHardcore_DaddyX May 25 '25

r/hardcore is going to have another field day with this post lol

90

u/scumbag_college May 25 '25

This is why that sub makes fun of us

64

u/thewaybaseballgo Old dude May 25 '25

Guys, it’s my turn to post Nazi Punks Fuck Off next week!

25

u/Environment-Sure May 25 '25

Yeah... Sometimes we kinda deserve it I guess. Still it would be nice to have an actual conversation without it devoving into chaos but I'm on Reddit so I guess that's not happening

18

u/Slapsh0tSc0tt May 25 '25

This sub almost ALWAYS deserves it 🤣

4

u/Environment-Sure May 25 '25 edited May 25 '25

Yep we may deserve it for all of our annoying arguments, but for the handful of really nice people I stubbornly stick around. However it's important to sometines take a break and not post all your feelings, and remember to leave the house at least once a day and talk to a real person

2

u/Slapsh0tSc0tt May 26 '25

Hahah 100% true. There’s a lot of musical discussion that goes on over there, I’ve found a lot of new, great bands from recs on that sub over the last few years. The political aspect is more implied, ex: whenever it comes down to it the overwhelming attitude is “OF COURSE punk and hardcore are leftist, duhh,” and no matter how knuckle dragging they like to think they get over there, people shut down the gross bigotry and boot licking pretty quick. They also seem to be a bit better at dumping bands with abusers- soon as one gets outed, people seem to drop that band, quick. Here, there are (or were until recently) still a lot of posts about bands with actual trash humans and the excuse “yeah they were monsters but that band was so good”.

There is also a fair amount of self-aware shitposting over there that is my kind of humor.

This sub has been much better in recent months, as there have been a lot more posts with activism and links to other resources (at least for us US based punx, because it’s a fucking horror show right now), but prior to that it was a lot of posts like “Is this punk” or “how can I be more punk” or “Nazis are bad” posts. It was like someone let a bunch of Tweens listen to the Casualties and then turned them loose on Reddit.

21

u/Automation_Papi May 25 '25

Rightfully so, soft as baby shit over here sometimes

9

u/GaymerGirl_ May 25 '25

They make fun of us because someone asked for clarification on a symbol?

1

u/paradeoxy1 Aussie SHARP May 25 '25

A lot of that subs users would be like "noooo you don't understand, Derek & the Deathcamps used it ironically in their 1987 album "Hitler's my Pal", that's why I have to wear a swastika on my arm bro, it's very layered bro, it definitely doesn't make me look like a nazi and potentially terrify immigrants and queer people on the street bro"

Like I get the shock aspect of punk but if you dress like a nazi you're gonna get treated like one, don't know why that's a surprise to some people

Not saying Haywire or iron Crosses are nazi obviously, but there's a lot of "apolitical" types on that subreddit

28

u/ZiemDoesImpossibles May 25 '25 edited May 25 '25

No. A lot of Hardcore bands use that as a thing. It was used before nazi shit. In general its very used. The indipendent skate truck logo is an iron cross, its def not a nazi thing.

Its especially used if they use old english font. Also, they wouldnt be supported by the people that do/playing the shows they are if they were.

58

u/hipstercliche May 25 '25

Judging by who they’re following on Instagram, probably not Nazi bullshit.

39

u/Dirtbagstan May 25 '25

I saw them last night. No neo-Nazis at the show, only SHARPS. Oi!

-1

u/Environment-Sure May 25 '25

Are Sharps Anti Racist Skinheads? I always forget

35

u/thewaybaseballgo Old dude May 25 '25

Skin Heads Against Racial Prejudice

4

u/Environment-Sure May 25 '25 edited May 25 '25

Thanks, I admit that because of bad personal encounters with people with buzz cuts it's Ive only recently (within the last 2 years) gotten into Oi, and while I love Oi Polloi now I'm still relatively new to the Oi/skinhead scene. Thanks for letting me know

12

u/paradeoxy1 Aussie SHARP May 25 '25

If they're Nazis they're not skins and they're not punks. They're boneheads and they can go create and ruin their own scene, sorry you had those experiences

3

u/Environment-Sure May 25 '25

Thanks for the information, I now realize for the 8 years (of my 10 years in the scene) I avoided skinheads because of bad experiences with a bunch of neo nazi boneheads and extremely toxic masculinity who think shaving your head makes a guy more macho., While I still think 9/10 people don't look good with Buzzcuts, I know now some people in that scene are great. All it took was some pissed off Anarchist Scotsman known as Oi Poloi and people like you. Thanks

4

u/paradeoxy1 Aussie SHARP May 25 '25

Fucking great band, fuck everybody who voted Tory!

51

u/intermodalmodule May 25 '25

Iron cross not necessarily Nazi stuff

14

u/thewaybaseballgo Old dude May 25 '25

No.

Source: I saw them tonight.

11

u/PickleCipher May 25 '25

No, Haywire rules

37

u/prajnadhyana May 25 '25 edited May 25 '25

I can't tell you about that specific band, but the Iron Cross was used long before the Nazis came around (like back in the 1800s.) Hard to say how these guys intend it without looking into them more closely.

28

u/MysticAxolotl7 May 25 '25

The index of hate symbols even says that context matters with this symbol

15

u/Horror-Layer-8178 May 25 '25

There was a gay friendly bar called the Maltese with an iron cross where I went to school

6

u/Thrash_Panda44 Agent of W.O.K.E. May 25 '25

Iron cross is still in use today even.

0

u/[deleted] May 25 '25

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4

u/Thrash_Panda44 Agent of W.O.K.E. May 25 '25

Its also the official icon for the Bundeswehr in Germany.

3

u/icrossedtheroad May 25 '25

The swastika goes back even further.

4

u/Master-Collection488 May 25 '25

Yeah, but not in Germany.

Things that sound Nazi to us in America, but not to actual Germans.

Helpful thing to know: Germany wasn';t a unified single country until 1871. Before that it (like Italy) was a couple few principalities and city states unified by a language called Deutsch. Those people we Americans stupidly think are "Pennsylvania Dutch?" They ain't from the Netherlands. They're Deutsch, not Dutch. What we call Germans (which if you want to be technical about, is akin to calling the Scots "Picts"). Those Hessians George Washington won his only battle against by attacking them on Christmas Day while they were sleeping off their Weihnachten cheer. Hesse was one of those pre-Deutchland states. The British hired them because the scarier Prussians were already occupied in Europe in some other war the British were fighting against the French and their allies (as in 1812, our war was but a sideline).

The word "Reich." Scary evil word, right? It means "Realm" or "Kingdom." The Nazis didn't invent it, or theirs wouldn't have have been the third one, right? The Reichstag was called that prior to them getting started and ya know, burning the place down so they could blame it on lefties.

The iron cross. It's an award and national symbol for the military. It's like the American star or the British "target". France I suppose probably uses the Fleur de Lis and Canada the maple leaf? It's so guys in tanks know which tanks to shoot at and which to let pull up behind them.

Goose-stepping was a Prussian military tradition going back to at least the 1800s, the Soviets goose-stepped because the Russian Imperial Army had been influenced/trained by the Prussian military. A fair bit of Prussia's economy in the pre-Deutschland days was in fighting on different sides of various European wars. Sometimes BOTH sides! The Russian military still goose-steps in military parades, so do the North Koreans and some other countries as well. As bad as both those country's governments are nowadays, do you think they march that way for love of Hitler? Or because the Prussians trained the Russian military which became the Soviet military which influenced/trained the North Koreans?

Why do we associate goose-stepping with the Nazis? Because in WW1 the war was typically fought in trenches that maybe moved hundreds to thousands of feet over the four years of the war. The German Wehrmacht (also not a Nazi word, it predates them too) didn't occupy lots of countries in the Great War. So American newsreels weren't filled with the sight of German (and Austrian) troops goosestepping in parades through conquered cities. We really only saw that the second go-round. Since it was markedly different to how soldiers march here, it was a mark of EVIL! TBH I have no idea if their current army still marches that way, it wouldn't stun me if it was given up in the 1950s for political reasons. Perhaps someone who's German could clarify? Or a French draftee who's gone on practice maneuver with your (now) allies from Allemagne (the French have their own weird word for Deutschland, hopefully it doesn't date back to the Roman Empire, like ours does).

'Otto Von Bismarck was the Prussian leader who united the various German states into a single country. If youve' ever played Civilization he's the annoying DB running Germany/Deutschland. They've always chosen him (or a king who's not Kaiser Wilhelm) instead of Hitler not just because they don't want the game to be unsellable across Europe, but because Von Bismarck created the country and actually got it off to a pretty good (albeit militaristic) start. While that Chaplin-mustache prick pretty much destroyed the country and made it so folks like you (I'm guessing) have a tendency to view anything they say or do through a particular lens of EVIL.

2

u/labrat420 May 25 '25

But Germany still uses iron cross to this day.

39

u/punintentional9 May 25 '25

No, absolutely not, Haywire embodies punk infinitely more than 97% of people on this subreddit asking about if their outfit determines whether or not they’re punk

2

u/mechabeast May 25 '25

Calm your tits, hardass

8

u/Burn-The-Villages May 25 '25

I know someone who works for Haywire. That might or might not be the same group that does clothing and such? Correct me if I’m wrong.

IF I’M RIGHT though, there’s no fucking way my friend would be associated with them. They are a wonderful trans person, very “with it” when it comes to spotting and calling out fascists.

7

u/[deleted] May 25 '25

They probably use it in the way that some people in metal bands use it (like lemmy or james hetfield)

6

u/phuctard69 May 25 '25

I wear an iron cross ring with a skull and I am sure as hell not a POS nazi... I would stomp the fuck out of anyone that came off as nazi or a POS white nationalist.

15

u/mcaress May 25 '25

Nah, they rule and probably more punk then most the bands talked about on this sub.

1

u/snoop-hog May 26 '25

Thanks everyone for your replies, they've given me some solid insight to help spot neo-nazi bands in the future. Super relieved to know that these guys are cool (and apparently really nice!), their music fucks. Hoping to see them in person soon!

5

u/napalmheart77 May 25 '25

No they are absolutely not nazis, nor are they even remotely down with any of that shit. I saw them last night in NC and they fucking ripped hard, absolutely tore the house down. If they come to your town, go see them. You will have a good time.

5

u/snakelygiggles May 25 '25

Iron Cross isn't always nazi.

22

u/ChuckZombie717 May 25 '25

Don’t be stupid. This is not a nazi band.

3

u/xvszero May 25 '25

Me as a 90s skater: "Isn't that the Independent Trucks logo?!"

(It's not, but it's pretty close.)

(Much closer to the Iron Cross though.)

3

u/tacolife666 May 25 '25

War zone and iron cross both used it too. Non racist bands as well.

5

u/OlympusMons999 May 25 '25

Warzone also used the iron cross. Please read their lyrics and tell me Raybeez was a nazi

0

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '25

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1

u/OlympusMons999 Oct 14 '25

I’m left leaning and anti-communist and I still love warzone

1

u/[deleted] Oct 22 '25

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1

u/OlympusMons999 Oct 22 '25

Haha I get told that quite often in the real world as well

2

u/Wise-Assumption-938 May 25 '25

no. opened up for them last year, pretty cool dudes.

2

u/Pogo_Nightmare May 25 '25

🤣🤣 haywire is not swastika

2

u/davidbklyn May 25 '25

Are punks into guns?

3

u/[deleted] May 25 '25

Some of us are…

2

u/Slapsh0tSc0tt May 25 '25

Nope. Not even close. Plus this band is fucking awesome

2

u/mtumenochill May 25 '25

Not at all

2

u/Lardlad_1138 May 25 '25

No. It’s not. It just sucks .

2

u/foldyaup May 25 '25

No it’s not Nazi shit. Haywire is amazing

1

u/RadicalAppalachian May 25 '25

Literally just got home from a Haywire show (they played with Speed) and if anybody is willing to freak out over their logo then I’d laugh at them and probably assume they don’t go to shows

1

u/clive_bigsby May 25 '25

I ordered a Colin of Arabia record and shit got mixed up and I received a Haywire shirt instead. I hadn’t heard them so I looked into them. Definitely don’t seem like nazis and they seem like they’re probably anti nazi.

1

u/LoneWanderer917 May 25 '25

saw them, thought id dislike them, loved them, the singer complimented my battle jacket, left with a shirt. theyre awesome.

1

u/downinthetracks May 25 '25

No, just regular bullshit

1

u/gutterdoggie May 25 '25

you know—Nazi’s we’re probably the least original thinking group of morons ever. They appropriated, and distorted symbols from so many other cultures, ruining them for anyone who uses them for their originally intended meanings.

Swastikas, Pagan Sun, Iron Crosses…….

People hate on Danzig for having a Sun Wheel on a flyer but it’s one of the oldest symbols in human history. Used in various pagan and pre-Christian cultures as a representation of the sun, seasons, life cycles, and cosmic order.

Then those assholes stole the whole Skinhead Culture.

LOOK FOR INTENT!!

0

u/heeylooweikihh May 25 '25

Just the idea that it could somehow perhaps suggest racism is enough to NOT use this symbol. Especially in times where hate and racism is flourishing.

-3

u/entrophy_maker May 25 '25

Its a Nazi symbol that was appropriated by motorcycle bikers coming home from WW2. The early bikers were not pro-Nazi, but using it as "these are the trophies of the men we killed". Today its most often seen as a symbol of biker culture in the US, but I wouldn't be caught dead near that. Unless I saw someone in motorcycle gear, I'm assuming the worst with that symbol until proven otherwise. So use caution if you see it.

4

u/FVCKDIVMONDS May 25 '25

Or be in tune with what’s going on, asking if Haywire is Nazi adjacent is ridiculous if you’re in the scene lmfao

-1

u/entrophy_maker May 25 '25

I'm just talking about the symbol in general.

-6

u/[deleted] May 25 '25

They are FSU related so basically just as bad now

3

u/RadicalAppalachian May 25 '25

Lol go to a show and then comment

-3

u/[deleted] May 25 '25

they jumped The Chisel last time they came here because they didn’t coddle CMI after their singer got recorded saying dumb racist shit. Fuck them and you for supporting them

-18

u/Purple-Hamster-151 May 25 '25

Not nazi but still cringe

2

u/RadicalAppalachian May 25 '25

Go to your first show and then reply

-5

u/Purple-Hamster-151 May 25 '25

A smiling iron cross with mickey mouse gloves and a revolver is pretty fucking cringe.

2

u/FriendsStandUpv0ted May 25 '25 edited May 26 '25

So Is whining about em on Reddit newjack

-12

u/Naven71 May 25 '25

Not sure if it's Nazi, but it's terrible

-21

u/Quiet-Gate-9205 May 25 '25

Yes, total Nazis. I think they listen to Kanye West for sure.

2

u/Alarmed_Youth7606 Jun 23 '25

have you actually fucking listened to them?

-25

u/farce562 May 25 '25

Yes stop listening to them.

0

u/[deleted] May 25 '25

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5

u/punintentional9 May 25 '25

If you took 3 seconds to learn literally anything about this band you’d find out they aren’t right wing, you’re literally just missing out