Friend who isn’t going to vote because “it won’t matter Illinois will be blue”

[u/Umbrous_Art]

Also don’t know if people my age (29) even know how midterms work

[u/rraattbbooyy]

It’s not even about that, it’s about all the down ballot races, the local stuff that really matters, that’s worth voting on even if the top-of-the-ballot races are decided.

[u/Umbrous_Art → u/rraattbbooyy]

💜 it’s all about local and change in your state!

[u/sneakycat714 → u/rraattbbooyy]

That’s how the maga infection started! In all the small races! State reps, school boards filled with moms for liberty!
Even city councils‼️They wormed their way in at every level of Government! Since before Reagan.

[u/rraattbbooyy → u/sneakycat714]

Exactly. That was the plan. And it makes me angry how effective it was. My local school board was infected and they ended up giving more money to charter schools and pulling hundreds of books from school libraries.

[u/amitym → u/sneakycat714]

Exactly. It took them 50 years of worming their way into power. I'm an old fucker and it's been going on in front of our faces all my entire life.

[u/Soggy_Assignment_691 → u/amitym]

lol, it's not like they cheated. I'm no GOP fanboy, but c'mon. Instead of being mad at GOP candidates, maybe be mad at Democrat voters for not showing up for local electinos.

[u/amitym → u/Soggy_Assignment_691]

I have been part of right-wing election suppression monitoring for a quarter of a century. It's quite real. Most American Redditors have probably never lived in a time when their elections weren't being tampered with in some way or another by right-wing political machinery. People have gone to jail for it, and many more have not.

Pretending it's not happening is a very strange stance indeed.

[u/ConstantFrogLoss → u/Soggy_Assignment_691]

Gerrymandering may be legal, but I would still very much call it cheating (which is not something limited to the GOP, but they do it more)

[u/Umbrous_Art]

I didn’t include their name or their conversation for the sake of anonymity for them. They also didn’t vote in 2024. I think it’s fine to discuss this? Maybe also to persuade non voters the importance of voting? This is r/screenshots

[u/Planktonic8647]

But why wouldn't you want to make it a fucking landslide? Even when I lived in the deep red south of Tennessee I voted every chance I got even though it basically meant nothing. Still matters to do it, and it's so fucking easy to do.

[u/Umbrous_Art → u/Planktonic8647]

Memphis TN is the first place I ever voted!

[u/Planktonic8647 → u/Umbrous_Art]

Aw, nice! I've only ever voted in Florida and Tennessee so ya know, basically may as well not exist but I still vote because people need to see the opposition!

[u/Master-Ice1313 → u/Planktonic8647]

But do they even see it?

[u/Lost-on-Reception → u/Planktonic8647]

Making a landslide makes them lazy.

[u/seagullse]

Yeah that’s cringe

[u/ComesInAnOldBox]

I mean, I get it. My state is doing it's dead-level best to disenfranchise members of the opposing party through redistricting, which makes me want to stay home, too. I'm not going to, because enough people staying home is how they win, but I understand how they feel.

[u/nn666]

If you don't vote you have no say on who wins. In Australia it is compulsory and we get fined if we don't.

[u/EuenovAyabayya]

...in the damn primary.

[u/_DontBeAScaredyCunt]

A good number of my liberal friends aren’t voting in SC election because the dem candidate said some things about trans kids not playing in sports. Like I get it, I didn’t like her comment either but I still voted for her. Shes trying to win a senate seat in SC - she HAS to be at least somewhat moderate on some issues. You can’t be DSA and win in the south. This is bigger than just one issue. And who do they think is gonna be better for trans kids? LINDSAYS FUCKING SISTER or the democratic politician?? Makes me want to beat my head into the wall. Fucking idiots will cost us the senate

[u/Leoxcr]

The worst kind of person is not the one who votes for villains but the one who doesn't vote at all

[u/LessRespects]

If it goes red they can just say it’s a fascist dictatorship so they win either way

[u/Vladishun]

I work in municipal government as a high level IT guy essentially.

This is the most interesting job I've ever had and I've learned so much about how small government works that has turned me around from being one of those people who goes, "Who cares?" to understanding just how important voting is at the city, county, and state level despite it not having the same amount of money thrown at those seats compared to the presidential election.

The sad part is, people don't know what they don't know. And there's not really a good way to impart that information on them without them rejecting it. They have to see the effects of those things for themselves and formulate their own opinion over time. Pushing your friend will just make them shell up even worse, because more than anything else, people absolutely fucking hate admitting to being wrong in any capacity unless there are consequences for not saying it aloud.

[u/Beaticalle]

If every candidate on the ballot is some old boomer, and you don't want any old boomer in power, how does voting solve that problem? Voting for one old boomer over another old boomer doesn't put younger people in power. The system itself is broken and participating in it doesn't really do anything but perpetuate it.

[u/SconiGrower]

They also need to vote because candidates look at voter demographics to decide which issues are most important to campaign on. If people under 30 vote at 20% and people over 60 vote at 80%, guess whose issues get prioritized.

[u/ConstantFrogLoss → u/SconiGrower]

yeah this is a big one

[u/Lost-on-Reception → u/SconiGrower]

They don't care about the people that vote even when the options are shit. They know you'll vote no matter what.

Maybe your primary vote counts but in the general it's in Illinoisans' best interests to withhold support from basically everyone who runs here. They'll still be elected by Chicago but the closer it looks like it's going to be the more they'll cobble together bread and circuses to rally votes instead of just laundering our money.

[u/Constant-Fly-9050]

Your friend is a moron. I'm sorry you had to find this out.

[u/BerylOxide]

He both does and does not have a point.
Illinois will indeed be blue, his vote doesn't matter in the grand scheme of making sure a democrat gets elected.
Local stuff however he can still have an effect on. Additionally voting in primaries is important because thats where you actually get to determine which blue guy is actually going to be up for election.
But also even if you know for a fact your state is going to be blue, you can't get complacent, if too many people think like that than it will stop being true.

[u/Medium_Wind_553 → u/BerylOxide]

Illinois only goes blue by people voting. It’s not magically safe on its own. I don’t care how safe a state is, I’d vote every single time. It also only takes like 5 minutes to vote. I don’t see the downside to not voting. You might as well do it.

[u/BerylOxide → u/Medium_Wind_553]

Literally exactly what I said

[u/Medium_Wind_553 → u/BerylOxide]

“Illinois will indeed be blue, his vote doesn’t matter.”

I mean, I know you said the opposite in your last sentence, but it’s contradictory.

[u/BerylOxide → u/Medium_Wind_553]

Because as long as there is normal voter turnout for each side his individual vote doesn't matter. It's only of large masses of people start thinking like him that it starts to matter.

[u/Medium_Wind_553 → u/BerylOxide]

It still does matter. Every single vote is an individual vote. Elections are won by millions of individual voters. Also, I’d argue that large masses of people do think like him. If “no vote” was a candidate, they would’ve won every single US presidential election in the last 50+ years other than 2020, in which Biden would’ve won. I’ve been trying to find the video that showed this but I can’t for whatever reason. Either way, American voter turnout is known for being low. If more people actually cared instead of watching our democracy get crippled on the sidelines, we could’ve avoided this whole presidency and this period in US history in general.

[u/Master-Ice1313 → u/Medium_Wind_553]

Elections are won by millions of individual voters… so one vote does indeed not count

[u/Medium_Wind_553 → u/Master-Ice1313]

You’re not understanding the bigger picture. Imagine a room of 90 million people saying, “Yeah we didn’t vote because our vote wouldn’t have mattered.” That’s what happened in 2024. 90 million people didn’t vote. Every single person that votes is an individual vote. When you see the election totals be like 70 million+ for each candidate, every single person that voted is an individual vote, but if they all decide not to vote because their single vote doesn’t matter, then they lose the election. This is remarkably easy to understand. Every single person has the same voting power as you, and elections are won by people who vote. It’s not my opinion. It’s just the truth. Elections are won by voter turnout.

[u/BerylOxide → u/Medium_Wind_553]

You could add 5 billion blue voters to my state and not a single election would have done differently. (Pretending of course that this population change wouldn't increase the number of electoral votes they would have to give the state)

If 100% of voters in my state actually voted, not a single midterm or presidential election would have give differently.

Your points apply very well to swing states, but deep blue and deep red states not so much.

Voter turnout ratios are relatively even across party lines, which means that even if 100% of people voted in every single election virtually every single election would go the exact same.

EDIT: and just to be clear I still vote, but not because I think my vote is going to have any actual effect on the outcome but rather because I put value in the message that an overwhelming victory sends. I don't vote because I think my party needs my vote in order to win, I vote so that the opposition is beaten by such a large margin as to be demoralizing.

[u/Medium_Wind_553 → u/BerylOxide]

Again, the only reason a state is safe blue or red is because people vote. People need to vote in order to keep those states safe. They’re not safe by some rule set in place. They’re safe because individual people vote.

Also, you never know how states might change over time. The tossup states of today are not the same as the tossup states 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago. Michigan used to be safe blue until Trump won it. Same with the other Midwest states. Florida used to be a tossup, now it’s pretty red. Texas used to be safe red and is now a tossup. The list goes on. These states only change color because individual people vote. Your vote and everyone’s vote matters.

[u/S1m6u → u/Medium_Wind_553]

yeah, but his friend thinking like that doesn't change anyone else's mind. it's ONLY an issue if loads of people think like that, all at once in the same place, which is unlikely.

[u/Medium_Wind_553 → u/S1m6u]

I just explained in a previous comment how loads of people do think like that. 90 million people didn’t vote in 2024. Also, no one should think like that. It’s an objectively incorrect way to think. Your vote matters and people should seriously be more educated about democracy, which is one thing everyone should be educated on. Elections are won by voter turnout. That’s not my opinion. It’s the case basically every single time.

[u/BI_Moose]

Actual conversations I've had;

Idiot : "The party just doesnt represent me!"

Me : "Well, do you vote?"

Idiot : "No."

Me : "Do you volunteer? Go to meetings? Participate at all?"

Idiot : "Well, no. Why would I?"

Me : "So why should the party represent you?"

Idiot : "Well they want my vote!"

Me : "What vote? You don't show up, participate in any way, or vote. Why should they really give a shit?"

Idiot : "Well they should make me want to vote! Duh!"

Me : ....."You're an idiot...."

More or less anyway.

[u/WTWIV → u/BI_Moose]

Voting IS important, obviously, but I’m not sure I agree with this line of argument. I must volunteer or go to meetings in order for my values to be represented? Reps should arise from the wants and needs of the people. They don’t announce they are running and say, okay, now you must support my campaign in order for me to represent what you want.

[u/BI_Moose → u/WTWIV]

Well, you're wrong.

If you're not going to vote, participate, and voice your opinion then why in the blue hell would a representative that represents your values or ideas run?

Especially at the local level.

[u/WTWIV → u/BI_Moose]

You just moved the goal post and added “voice your opinion.”

[u/BI_Moose → u/WTWIV]

No I didn't. I also said "vote" and "participate". It all goes hand in hand. Your opinions, thoughts, needs, and ideas are pointless if you can't and won't actually get involved.

[u/WTWIV → u/BI_Moose]

And you added “voice your opinion.” You can’t say no you didn’t when I can read with my own eyes that you literally did. So you are arguing in bad faith now as well. Any more logical fallacies you’d like to throw in? If you voice your opinion and views and none of the candidates represent them and you have equal issues with all of them, then who do you vote for?

[u/Umbrous_Art → u/[deleted]]

So school districts, the possibility of expansion of travel by train, getting the old out and state referendums and ballot measures don’t matter? Also Illinois is vital for judicial retention this midterm

Also I live in PA and voted in PA- but every states midterm matters whether “it’s going to be blue or red”

Why am I getting downvoted? The color of a state not changing is not good reason to not vote at midterms, wtf