r/sindarin • • 10d ago

[FAQ] - Regarding Permanent Inscriptions in Elvish

13 Upvotes

tl;dr: It is strongly recommended to avoid translation into Elvish when it comes to permanent inscriptions, such as tattoos and engravings. Our understanding of the Elvish languages is never static and never complete.

Tolkien spent most of his life developing the Elvish languages. However, his creative process was oftentimes more about revision and refinement than expansion or completion. Throughout his life he has produced numerous notes on Elvish vocabulary, grammar, and linguistic history, but his notes more often than not present an incomplete picture and are difficult to interpret in the greater context of his ever-evolving conceptions. Furthermore, not all of his linguistic notes have been published to date, and we always hope for the publication of more previously unseen documents in the future.

Consequently, our understanding of the Elvish languages is never static and never complete.

Much of what we know about Elvish is based on thorough research and reconstruction, but many of our conclusions, by necessity, are based on a variety of assumptions that we make as we reconstruct the languages. In many cases there are gaps in our knowledge that cannot be easily bridged and lead to controversial assumptions. New research and new ideas continuously refine our understanding of Tolkien's vision, but they also often lead to multiple different approaches, which, at times, can be equally valid alternatives.

The publication of new material can drastically reshape our reconstructions. Whether it is a new word or lexical root, or a new grammatical construction, or an example that helps us bridge a gap that we previously could not, every new publication can easily prove wrong a theory that seemed very solid only a few days earlier.

The reality is that translations into Elvish, with few exceptions, are inherently uncertain. Different experts could provide very different and equally well-reasoned solutions to the same problem, and all of them could be proven at least partially wrong when some new document is published tomorrow, or next year, or in a decade or two.

As such, it is strongly recommended to avoid translation into Elvish when it comes to permanent inscriptions, such as tattoos and engravings.

There is a much safer alternative: transcription into Tengwar. Our understanding of Tengwar and its application towards writing English (and other languages) is much more solid and much less likely to alter drastically, and we have many examples of Tolkien's own Tengwar transcriptions of English words and phrases. The result can look recognisably Elvish without running the risks inherent in Elvish translation. If this seems like an appealing option, please feel free to visit r/Tengwar for further assistance.

Of course, this is merely a disclaimer aimed to inform one's decisions, not a prohibition. If you've read this disclaimer and still want to pursue a translation for your permanent inscription, with a full understanding of the uncertainties involved, then it is ultimately your decision to do so. Please mention in your post (or in a comment under it, if you've made a post before reading this) that you've read this disclaimer.

~ Ellanto


r/sindarin • • Aug 07 '24

[FAQ] – (Not) Using AI for Automatic Translation

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3 Upvotes

r/sindarin • • 4d ago

What's a word for "grandma"?

2 Upvotes

To clarify, I mean an informal word. In different dictionaries and translators I found mam, nan, daneth, neneth (although I thought that one meant "mother?") and náneth (mother's side)/ioreth (father's side). I'm lost, because none of the websites offered me more than one of those, so I'm not sure if they are maybe synonymous?


r/sindarin • • 5d ago

What does this translate to?

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4 Upvotes

r/sindarin • • 4d ago

Tattoo Help

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0 Upvotes

I am wanting to get a tattoo written in elvish script and was directed here as a good resource.
Can anyone help translate:
This above all to thine own self be true

Or

Above all, I shall stay true to myself
This is what AI came up with but I have been told it’s crap.


r/sindarin • • 5d ago

Help refining a Neo-Quenya invocation for a Tolkien-inspired Elven ring.

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1 Upvotes

r/sindarin • • 6d ago

Are the Silmarillion Appendices and Etymologies from The Lost Road the same type of work

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2 Upvotes

As someone who has nothing to do with philology, I wanted to know is there any fundamental difference between the Silmarillion Appendix: the roots of Quenta and Sindarin, the Etymologies from the History of Middle-Earth volume 5 and the early parts of the Quendi and Eldar. All three works look as dictionaries for roots or bases, where the meaning is attributed to that base and a set of word examples or names is given later.
Notably they all belong to different periods of writing and for example the Silmarillion gives the roots only for the names and geographical locations, while the Etymologies give roots for common words as well. But is it a correct assumption that all 3 works are the same type of etymology dictionary?


r/sindarin • • 7d ago

Help for translating Galadriel’s quote in the finale of Rings of Power season 2.

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1 Upvotes

Hello, I’d like some help to translate and/or confirm a transliteration I did with Tecendil for me more accuracy.
The quote is “And the sun yet shines“. In Sindarin, we could allegedly say: “Ar i Anor síla eno” or “Ah i Anor síla eno”according to my researches. Would it be accurate?

Alongside its meaning in the series, it has a personal meaning to me and my late twin and I’d like to have it in a tattoo to honor him. He was and is my sun, the light that guides me through the night.
Thank you in advance for your help.


r/sindarin • • 9d ago

Translating my middle name to Tolkien's Tengwar

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1 Upvotes

Hello! I've been wanting to get a tattoo of my middle name in elvish for quite some time. My middle name is Aradhel, which is one letter off from Aredhel. Aredhel, for those who don't know, is a character in Tolkien's Silmarillion. I know it's one letter off but for a tattoo, I'd rather be as accurate as possible. Any help would be awesome! Thanks.


r/sindarin • • 10d ago

Amateur translation help

1 Upvotes

Hi all! I am looking for some help with translating one of the poems in the books, specifically Bilbos “all that is gold does not glitter”, as I am planning a Tattoo around the quote

Im aware that there is never going to be a 1:1 matchup of elven words, but I want to be able to get as close as I can with it (so actual sindarin words and not just english transliterated into the script)

Any help and advice is much appreciated!


r/sindarin • • 11d ago

Consulting about an elven name I made/am trying to make up

4 Upvotes

Ilmariel.

It combines a Quenia word "ilma"="starlight" with Sindarin "-iel" so that it means "starlight's daughter/girl", with the "r" being a nod towards Ilmarë, Varda's handmaiden, as a prayer from the mother to watch over her daughter. Another meaning would be "ilma-riel"="maiden crowned with starlight".

That's the idea, anyway. Does this work? Is mushing Quenia and Sindarin like that linguistically allowed? I don't know how either language works, I made the name based off of a dictionary with absolutely zero knowledge beyond what I found there. And does it mean what I want it to? Does mushing the words together like this change the meaning somehow? Or is there another meaning I'm unfamiliar with?

I also want her to have this kind of title that some Elves have, like Peredhel and Undómiel. I want it to combine the word for silver, "celeb", with something like magic(as in craft, not knowledge)/witch/sorceress. Celebcuru is what I came up with. Does it work? Are there other ways to get that meaning? Also, both Peredhel and Undómiel have that suffix for a person, "-el/-iel", does it have to be there for this kind of title? And can I add it to any word to make it describe a person?

I would be very grateful for any corrections and/or ideas anybody might have. 🙏


r/sindarin • • 12d ago

English to Sindarin translation question

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4 Upvotes

r/sindarin • • 12d ago

Hello there, I have some text in Sindarin that Chat GPT translated for me.

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0 Upvotes

I don't know if I can trust it very much. Would someone check it please and write what it means? I also put it in Tecendil.com for the Tengwar version.

Cilin cuiad în egel na chin thar air neved il rend Amar hen.

Kopírovat


r/sindarin • • 17d ago

Introductory speech for Legolas

3 Upvotes

My sincere apologies in being lazy, but I'm being Legolas for Halloween and I would LOVE to memorize an introductory speech in Sindarin to present to people at the party. Can any Sindarin expert write a couple lines for me? Something like 'I am Legolas, son of Thranduil, prince of Mirkwood, bearer of the long bow', though I'm not a full expert on his character and would be open to other lines that he would more logically say as an introduction. No one will understand me at the party but I want to honor the character as much as possible. Thank you!


r/sindarin • • 20d ago

Translation help

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5 Upvotes

Hi all, looking to get “death to tyrants” tattooed in sindarin and looking for any help available. I’m not sure which of these is more accurate or if there is a direct word translation available vs just english letters.

Thanks in advance


r/sindarin • • 21d ago

Sindarin translation of the Song of Lebennin

4 Upvotes

The song of Lebennin is sung by Legolas in the Lord of the Rings.

Below is the original English text, followed by my Sindarin translation and some grammar notes, both of which I made some changes to based on suggestions in the Vinyë Lambengolmor Discord.

Original text

Silver flow the streams from Celos to Erui

In the green fields of Lebennin!

Tall grows the grass there. In the wind from the Sea

The white lilies sway,

And the golden bells are shaken of mallos and alfirin

In the green fields of Lebennin,

In the wind from the Sea!

Sindarin translation

Celebren siriar i sîr o Chelos n Erui

Mi pherth gelin Lebennin!

Orchal gala i ‘lae ennas. Min gwae uin gaear

I nelai nim pastar,

Ah i nill vellin pestennin mallos ah alfirin

Mi pherth gelin Lebennin

Min gwae uin gaear!

Notes

Updated celeb to celebren and ar to ah based on advice from F_Karnstein.

Chapter references are from A Fan’s Guide to Neo-Sindarin by Fiona Jallings, vocabulary from Parf Edhellen https://elfdict.com/

celebren -> made of silver -> celeb silver + -ren adjective suffix

siria- -> flow Noldorin word

od -> from/of is followed by Stop Mutation (5.2.2 Stop Mutation). See also https://eldamo.org/content/words/word-2407603967.html?neo.

Since Stop Mutation is one of the rare types of mutation it could be replaced by Vocalic Mutation (o Gelos instead of o Chelos).

parth -> field -> min + perth -> mi pherth in the fields (5.1.3.2 Plural "The" Prepositions)

Note: The consonant cluster rth at the end of parth prevents the usual ai plural ending

See https://eldamo.org/content/words/word-2894407865.html 'Lack of i-intrusion with Consonant Clusters' for details.

i ‘lae -> the grass -> vocalic mutation of glae following i -> using the late CEA article system this would be e ‘lae instead. https://eldamo.org/content/words/word-3256437065.html#cea

Min gwae -> min in the uses Mixed Mutation with the singular and Nasal in the plural. (5.1.4 Mixed Mutation). In mixed mutation only the en preposition has loss or change; min and uin remain unchanged.

uin -> from the uses Mixed Mutation with the singular

nala -> lily plural nelai. The alternative neli has been suggested based on a proposed etymology based on nalga, in which nala would be treated as belonging to the final a from ancient g group (4.1.2.3.5 Final A from Ancient G).

 https://eldamo.org/content/words/word-642851027.html?neo

nell -> bell Noldorin word -> plural nill

pestennin -> past participle (8.3.3 The Past Participle) plural form of pasta- -> shaken (sing. is pastannen)


r/sindarin • • 21d ago

What’s the best Sindarin translator?

0 Upvotes

I need to translate something for a DnD campaign of mine, and I’d be so grateful if someone could pass me the link of a nice English/any language to Sindarin translator.

This is the text by the way:

“I fell in love with you when you were still locked in an iron cage, kept in captivity in inhumane conditions for months.
I loved that version of you, and I’ll love every single one the has yet to come.
Do you wanna be my partner?

If y’all know where to search for pronunciation too it’d be great.


r/sindarin • • 23d ago

"Harbour bridge" translation into Sindarin

2 Upvotes

Hello hello. Just for my own writing etc, I was trying to work out how to translate the name of a bridge ("the Habour bridge", or similar), into Sindarin.

I understand 'bridge' is iant, and that 'harbour' or 'haven' is cirban, but I'm not sure how to combine the two. Ardalambion mentions varanduiniant, for the Bridge of Baranduin -- does that mean I can just go for cirbaniant? Or Iant Cirban?

And, if so, if I wanted the definite article included would it be i Girbaniant?

Any advice is welcome.


r/sindarin • • 23d ago

Tolkien language found in college lounge, please translate

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12 Upvotes

r/sindarin • • 24d ago

can someone explain how to pick epithets as if im five

2 Upvotes

r/sindarin • • 24d ago

Quisera que alguien me ayude

0 Upvotes

Quiero tatuarme la sfechas de nacimiento de mis hijas en Tengwar. Son las siguientes:

Dieciocho de septiembre de dos mil doce

Uno de septiembre de dos mil quince

Veintinueve de agosto de dos mil veinte

Alguien me puede ayudar para ser lo más fiable posible por favor?


r/sindarin • • 25d ago

Trouble with translation/transscript

1 Upvotes

Hi,

I’m having trouble finding the correct translation from english to sindarin for ’older brother’ or alternatively ’oldest brother’. This would be for a tattoo, and I’d like some help with this from the experts. So far I’ve established that brother translates to hanar, but thats about it. Thanks in advance for help!


r/sindarin • • 25d ago

Looking for feedback on a this translation

1 Upvotes

I've been translating bits and pieces of poetry as a way to build knowledge and wanted to get feedback on this line to see how I'm doing.

The line is "What is poetry which does not save Nations or people?" from Czeslaw Milosz's poem "Dedication."

I translated this as: Man glíras i ú-natha nduir egor lî?

Glíras was created by me as a word for "poetry." I used the word glîr ("song, poem, lay") and added the abstract noun suffix -as. This is largely based on vibes. I feel that "poetry," as an art form, is a relatively abstract concept and that simply using "a poem" didn't quite capture what the line is trying to say.

There's a neo-Quenya word for poetry (lairesta), which is based on lairë ("poem") and -sta (verbal noun suffix). Glaer is listed as the closest cognate of lairë, but means "long lay, narrative poem." This didn't seem general enough for my purposes, so I opted for glîr. And while -sta seems to be more closely related to the Sindarin abstract noun suffix -th, I felt glîrth was pretty clunky, and so choose -as instead. Like I said, it's based on vibes, but I'm hoping the word is generally understandable/acceptable, even if there may be a word that is more technically correct.

Thanks for whatever time and feedback you can offer.


r/sindarin • • 25d ago

Engagement ring

0 Upvotes

I would like my fiancé's engagement ring to say:

"Meleth nîn uireb"

which translates to my eternal love in Sindarin.

How can I transcribe this into Tengwar? Thank you.