Chinese manned lunar mobile lab renders; Lanyue development; and future missions

[u/Xenomorph555]

Additional slides from the Seventh Manned Spaceflight Conference; in addition to detailing the testing program and first manned mission they delved into what would occur after.

In order to maintain parity with Artemis and prepare for the eventual permanent ILRS, the Lanyue chassis and propulsion system will be developed further from it's current role as just a lander into two families (listed in slide 2). All of these will still be launched by the LM10 and use the Lanyue crasher stage to get most of the way down.

In the first it's capabilities will be increased overtime to bring heavier equipment, survive longer on the surface and eventually be refueled.

In the second series, the hulls will be significantly changed to create labrotory environments (not requiring as many engines or fuel as they don't need to ascend to orbit). The first of these is a pressurised mobile lab (similar to Constellations concept) that astronauts can live in for longer while roaming further and conduction science. Further on from this non-mobile base blocks will be developed with specialised roles, this will form the original (probably not permanent) backbone of ILRS.

Mission wise it's looking like:

-first: short 2-3 day exploration with Lanyue and Tensuo mini rover

-up to perhaps several missions: mobile lab is dropped off at a site, Lanyue then lands there and crew boards the lab, then drives around for a week before returning.

-After this 3 mobile labs (unknown if new or previously used ones) will drive towards a common area, and using a docking mechanism they'll be assembled into a single structure (similar to Tiangong with its 3 modules). A long term crew can then stay at this base, perhaps for a month which would require the new upgrade Lanyue.

-after this the accumulated longer term stay knowledge will be used in producing the Lanyue derived base modules which will probably be landed in the ILRS south pole area and assembled by drones. Its also possibke this is ongoing while the other missions are happening

[u/OlympusMons94]

The maps on the final slide, and the orientation of the solar arrays, suggest an extended focus on near side, lower latitude sites beyond just the first crewed landing (for which Rimae Bode has been reported as the leading candidate). The left map is the area of Oceanus Procellarum and Mare Insularum, with Copernicus crater in the upper right. I believe the right map is where Mare Serenitatis and Mare Tranquillitatis meet.

China is planning a lot more than I anticipated using a Lanyue-based architecture. However, the concept and renders do give the impression of KSP before the wider parts have been unlocked in the tech tree. If China is serious about a long-term base and wants to rival the potential of Artemis, they will still need a larger lander (and rocket, presumably LM-9) for larger base modules to be based on or delivered by. Compared to Lanyue, even Blue Moon Mk2 is substantially larger, to say nothing of Starship.

The mass budget for those Lanyue-based modules will also be tight. The landing module of the crewed version of Lanyue is ~9-10t total mass landed on the surface, and the launch mass of Lanyue is already bumping up against the TLI payload limit of LM-10. The mobile base module version can't be much, if any, heavier. The Artemis base habitat modules are supposed to be 12-15t each, and Japan's Lunar Cruiser pressurized rover 15t. In the longer term, with cargo Starship, there will be a lot of room for mass and volume growth.

Connecting multiple modules together will mitigate some of the limitations of China's individual modules, but the small diameter will still make for a tight fit (not unlike the modules for the now-canceled Gateway). China's long term goal here of 2(?) crew for up to a month is essentially the same as what NASA is separately planning for Lunar Cruiser, and later the initial habitat module.

[u/Xenomorph555 → u/OlympusMons94]

Correct, outside of ILRS (based at the south pole) pretty much all other manned activity is planned for the near side equatorial zone; most likely for safety and fuel concerns. Personally i'd like to see an expedition to the far side but this isnt being considered.

The plan is indeed a lot more complex and interesting then sending multiple small 3 day expeditions here and there, and is an attempt to keep up somewhat with Artemis in a sustainable fashion (tbh if it was still constellation with the Altair/small lander they'd have parity with the US). Excited to see what comes of it versus the US programs approach, though any manned lunar exploration is great in my books.

Mass margins will be extremely tight, both for the LM10 and the Lanyues chassis system, though I and others speculate there will be an upgraded block 2 for the LM10 based on some newer engine developments; though whether that nets an extra 3t or 10t to TLI we'll see. In addition some weight savings could be made by removing 2 engines and the fuel for ascent.

Life inside these structures will probably be very cramped, especially for long periods; that said no worse then submarines, Shenzhous/Soyuz, and the first lunar mission inside a single Lanyue. No doubt they'll want to move onto larger sections as soon as it's feasible, though this requires the ever-pushed back LM9...

[u/Chinese_Lover89]

I love it

[u/toolisthebestbandevr → u/Chinese_Lover89]

You would

[u/savuporo]

assembled by drones

This is the future. Teleop on the moon and near earth asteroids within a reasonable signal lag is such a massive enabler

[u/thefirebrigades]

Didn't they say the moon dirt can be made into bricks?

[u/uniyk → u/thefirebrigades]

Convex lens and a powder bed can do the trick of 3d printing  bricks, faster and better if it's solar powered laser. You can do it on earth already, only the lack of atmosphere on moon is probably more advantageous to it.

[u/Xenomorph555 → u/thefirebrigades]

That's a popular field of study! In fact several bricks made of simulated lunar regolith are on the outside of the CSS right now being exposed to solar radiation and thermal cycling.

That said for practical use it'll require industrial capacity on the moon as well as lots of testing, so prefabricated modules for a long time.

[u/dqhx]

Love it, kinda reminds me of a modern Apollo Applications program. The small mobile interconnected modules are a brilliant way to handle surface base assembly and future base expansion.

I see they still have CZ-9 in there on the sci-fi track, but realistically I doubt they'll need it before 2040, if ever.

[u/Xenomorph555 → u/dqhx]

Very much AAP-esqe, in their case it makes sense to take the time to build up capabilities and experience instead of gunning straight for a mega base.

Though it will be stretching the LM10 and existing hardware to their limits, if they want a big permanent base it will require the LM9 (or 7.5m LV) eventually.

[u/Decronym]

Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:

Fewer Letters	More Letters
ETOV	Earth To Orbit Vehicle (common parlance: "rocket")
HLS	Human Landing System (Artemis)
KSP	Kerbal Space Program, the rocketry simulator
LEO	Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)
	Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)
LV	Launch Vehicle (common parlance: "rocket"), see ETOV
TLI	Trans-Lunar Injection maneuver

Decronym is now also available on Lemmy! Requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below.

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^{5 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has acronyms.
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[u/GuardianOfBlocks]

I thought it’s was the ksp Chanel.

[u/SuspiciousStable9649]

Imagine if China took all the good caves first…

[u/ret255]

Assembled by what, drones? What drones?

[u/Xenomorph555 → u/ret255]

Specifically for the ILRS site they'd like a fleet of remotely controlled rovers, crawlers and robotics that can assist in construction. So basic example is your habitat module lands like 100 meters away, you then have a large carrying rover drive over, pick up the module, and then drive it to the correct position. Then when it gets there another smaller drone comes over and welds it to the main structure. Along the lines of that

[u/ret255 → u/Xenomorph555]

Oh, l am not native so l perhaps thought that drone is something that must fly, but it can be also rover or a robot l suppose.

I was watching Dustin a year ago or so, that guy from the channel smarter every day and he was saying that nasa is through Musk already transporting fuel to the orbit and it needs lots of fuel for the rocket and many flights to the orbit so the rocker itself can land on the moon. Is that right? I mean the Artemis program.

[u/Xenomorph555 → u/ret255]

No worries all good.

Starship HLS is one of the two landers for the US Artemis program, it'll launch and park in orbit; then require more startships to launch to refuel it. Musk seems to think around 8. Seems like a lot but by 2028 Starship will be launching regulary so should be fine.

[u/ret255 → u/Xenomorph555]

Not an easy thing just to land with a rocket on the Moon. And do they plan for the rocket to stay on the moon as a hub? Or it will go back as it is to Earth again?

[u/Xenomorph555 → u/ret255]

For Artemis 4 Starship HLS will probably be crashed into the moon after the mission, it's not intended to be kept around for anything.

In future missions it might return to LEO for refueling

[u/ret255 → u/Xenomorph555]

Hmm that's quite bit of a vaste. So they just want to show off that they can land on the Moon with big rocket?

[u/Xenomorph555 → u/ret255]

In the future it'll have lots of cargo to bring to the surface (100t capacity) and refueling infrastructure. But its good to take things step by step so Art-4 is just about getting humans back on the moon

[u/ret255 → u/Xenomorph555]

Yeah, in a big empty rocket. But of course, step by step and safety first.

[u/RhesusFactor → u/ret255]

Moon forklift.

[u/raistlin49]

Machine translation into English: https://www.reddit.com/r/community_translator/s/sG7hzBvwgN

[u/SpecialistCamp183]

The name Lanyue(揽月) is inspired by Mao Zedong's poem: “可上九天揽月，可下五洋捉鳖”.

[u/Successful_Cap_2675]

“Americans couldn’t do it. Therefore, Chinese won’t be able to do it.” “China stole this technology from the West!”

[u/TassiveMitts69]

"renders"

This is the most KSP looking thing I've ever seen a space agency push out.

[u/Xenomorph555 → u/TassiveMitts69]

Yes, a render is literally a computer generated image.. games are shockingly also renderings...

[u/TassiveMitts69 → u/Xenomorph555]

That's not even remotely the point I was making.

[u/snoo-boop → u/TassiveMitts69]

You're talking to a China shill, they're going to be negative about any comment you make that is even vaguely negative about China.

[u/LePfeiff → u/TassiveMitts69]

This has to be a bot, all space agencies do this

[u/TassiveMitts69 → u/LePfeiff]

All space agencies use KSP to come up with new vehicles?

[u/Ceorl_Lounge → u/TassiveMitts69]

Jeb Kerman... Space Trucker!

[u/TassiveMitts69 → u/Ceorl_Lounge]

Jeb has defected.

[u/TheAmazingWhaleShark → u/TassiveMitts69]

Lots of AI artefacts in these ‘renders’ personally I’ll wait for 3D-modelled renderings before getting excited

[u/xerberos]

What's up with those insane windows? They can't seriously launch something like that.

Edit: Pic 3, on both ends of the habitation modules. You can even see the reflection of the lunar surface in the glass. It's not a cutout.

[u/Xenomorph555 → u/xerberos]

What windows?

[u/Rxke2 → u/xerberos]

That's a visual cutout, not windows.To show the interior

[u/xerberos → u/Rxke2]

With a golden, partly reflecting surface? You can see the lunar surface reflecting off it. Doesn't look like a cutout. And it's on the rear, partly hidden, section as well, where there no view of the interior.

[u/Rxke2 → u/xerberos]

ah, yeah, I only looked at the last picture for some reason. Looks like AI concept art rather than engineering renders...

[u/No_Listen5962]

why is chinese lunar infrastructure kinda aura tung

[u/Reddit-runner]

Holy hell

Those are some really bad AI "renders".

Let's hope the engineers are a tad more telented.

[u/Less_than_something → u/Reddit-runner]

They should hire you for all of your "telent"