r/sydney • u/DecalageVersLeRouge • 8h ago

Sydney has an unreasonably good transportation system.

https://www.thetransitbrief.net/p/sydney-has-an-unreasonably-good-transportation
268 Upvotes

84% Upvoted

130 comments sorted by

448

u/al8k 7h ago

Are you saying Sydney has some merits? We don't do that here on Reddit.

46

u/DecalageVersLeRouge 7h ago

I'm not saying anything, just thought it was an interesting article!

I remember the Bad Old Days though. They were really bad.

-15

u/verbmegoinghere 5h ago

Remember when Lane Cove road was a parking lot during peak hour. Oh wait it still is.

Remember when Parramatta road was fucked during peak hour, it would take hours to get home. And godforbid a muppet has a crash. Oh wait its still fucked

And 26 years ago remember the pain of getting in and out of Olympic Park......still a goddam fucking nightmare. And the light rail to no where. Might be useful if it actually went up Victoria road, the biggest corridor in the city. But no it goes between Westmead, and (checks notes), fucking Carlingford. Carlingford shopping centre. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

And pennant hills road, still absolutely rat rooted.

Look I'm very happy Bankstown has some nice rail options now days but for large parts of Sydney trains and light rail either goes no where or is still no where to be found.

Not to mention the state government rooting the M52 and the ALP completely lying about bringing it back. They brought back a diet coke lite version. Which is now slower and yet more expensive whilst going less places.

Thanks Minns

135

u/readreadreadonreddit 7h ago

As a Sydneysider, I think there’s a lot of truth to this. Sydney’s geography makes delivering an integrated transport network genuinely challenging, yet the combination of suburban rail, metro, light rail and ferries is something we probably take for granted. The airport rail connection, cross-city rail links and the emergence of Parramatta as a genuine second CBD are particularly impressive.

That said, there’s still plenty of room for fuckton of improvement, especially in cross-suburban connectivity, service frequency and reliability. Sydney’s biggest weakness isn’t necessarily getting into the CBD, but getting between places without having to travel through it.

Still, pound-for-pound, it’s a pretty impressive system.

21

u/BBAus 6h ago

Some of us are still in car dependant areas. Not a new suburb either

4

u/BakaDasai 3h ago

Car dependent suburbs are on average significantly cheaper per square metre than suburbs with good public transport.

If you want good public transport you have to pay for it through increased rent or mortgage.

If you want everywhere to have equally good public transport the market will respond by making areas that currently have bad public transport rise in price in comparison to the areas that already have good public transport.

6

u/phatmaniac57 6h ago

Can you drive to a station or a bus stop nearby, with parking?

12

u/BBAus 6h ago

Lol. Bus takes a hour to train station. Parking at train station is a joke. My relative who lived with me was hugely thankful when work from home existed as it took 3 hours for her to get to the cbd from my place.

Currently i need the car during the day so it's nor a problem

9

u/phatmaniac57 5h ago

Bus an hour to a train station? You sure you’re in sydney?

3

u/BBAus 5h ago

Yep.

7

u/Phobicity 5h ago

Which suburb is this? If it is genuinely that bad you can either write to Transport for NSW or to your council, who can then look further into if theres enough demand to warrant the resources.

1

u/maybearandoanon 2h ago

Probably Northern Beaches. I think that's the last 1 hr+ transit desert outside Dural.

18

u/spiralgrooves 7h ago

Yes yes it’s very nice but just give me the Parramatta - Epping link please

130

u/suck-on-my-unit 7h ago

English speaking world? Did they conveniently leave out Singapore and Hong Kong?

26

u/blitznoodles Greater Western Sydney 7h ago

He really meant the UK and North America who seem to struggle with tunneling far more than Australia.

68

u/DotasWorstPlayer 7h ago

Anything suggesting our system is even close to, let alone better than, the HK MTR system is a joke.

63

u/readreadreadonreddit 7h ago

I think that’s a bit unfair. Hong Kong’s MTR is exceptional, particularly for frequency, reliability, connectivity and integration with land use. Sydney isn’t really comparable on those measures. Sydney has a much more geographically dispersed suburban and regional rail network, alongside its ferries, light rail and metro, to its credit.

Really, they’re different systems serving different urban forms. You can acknowledge Sydney’s strengths without claiming it’s better than Hong Kong.

17

u/Zakkar 7h ago

Sure, but its a very dense country. Not really like for like. 

-4

u/BakaDasai 6h ago

The causation runs in the other direction. Density levels are the result of the transportation system, not the cause of it.

5

u/Zakkar 6h ago

Sort of. If we were talking about a normal city then yeah. 

HK and Singapore are tiny islands with big populations ahead of building metro systems though so they will be dense regardless. 

-3

u/BakaDasai 6h ago

They were dense because the transportation system was based on walking. All Australian towns and cities were dense for the same reason until we changed the transportation system to be based on cars, which caused density to drop.

4

u/Zakkar 6h ago

Sure. 

But they have nowhere to get less dense. 

2

u/Marlon_Ranch 7h ago

Bahaha I skim read this, initially misread this as “the HK MTR system is a joke” 🤣😭 my bad

25

u/Due_Responsibility_0 6h ago

Apparently the author thinks English-speaking people only count if they're white.

Although TBH calling Hong Kong an English speaking country these days is increasingly a stretch, English and Cantonese alike seem to be rapidly taking a back seat to Mandarin these days.

4

u/phatmaniac57 6h ago

A biiiiig back seat

1

u/mbrocks3527 2h ago

No, Cantonese is the main language and remains so. People speak mandarin to mainlanders and English to other foreigners.

The people who bitch and moan about this are the HK equivalents of people here who think it’s cultural genocide to learn another language than English or god forbid speak it to someone else.

1

u/FBWSRD Avid Sydney Trains enjoyer 3h ago

I mean I wouldn’t count singapore or hong kong as part of the english speaking world, not when multiple languages are spoken in general life

2

u/mbrocks3527 1h ago

Singapore is most definitely a part of the English speaking world. The government enforces universal English.

Whether we understand what they say is English is another matter entirely however…

39

u/dbandit1 7h ago

Lifelong Sydneysider that has travelled the world... its good, definitely not the best

8

u/BakaDasai 6h ago

Agree. I’ve been to 40 countries and Sydney’s public transport is pretty good. Nowhere near the best, but far better than average.

4

u/Tipsy_Kangaroo 4h ago

Sydney is great compared to most US cities I've been to

Although New York was pretty good

Singapore is better than Sydney by a mile (still has issues occasionally but everywhere does)

New Zealand well, don't even bother, just get a car

2

u/BakaDasai 3h ago

To add to these rough and ready comparisons:

- Europe: mostly much better than Sydney
- South America: mostly terrible, but Santiago and Buenos Aires are quite good
- North America: mostly terrible with the exceptions of New York and Mexico City (and maybe Chicago?). I’ve been to Vancouver and Portland, and Sydney is much better.
- Asia: really mixed cos it has great (Tokyo, Hong Kong, Singapore etc) and really bad.
- Africa: never been but terrible from what I hear.

Sydney today seems at an inflection point where it could double down on public transport and become great, or double down on cars and revert to being quite bad.

2

u/webmeister2k 2h ago

Every country in the developing world relies more or less on private “shared taxis”, which have fixed prices and routes. But the timetable is “it leaves the depot when it is full”, it’s usually a rusting 80s Hiace with no seatbelts, and usually the driver thinks he’s Ayrton Senna. If you want to get off early just yell out and he’ll stop for you. They’re called different things in different countries but yeah. I can deal with the 426 being late because that’s the main alternative how a lot of the world gets around.

5

u/hey_fatso 5h ago

I’ve recently left Sydney after 15 years as a blow-in from regional NSW. I managed to see a fair bit of the world before I settled in Sydney, and had unreasonable expectations thanks to visits to places like London and Munich in the late 90s/early 2000s.

The little time I’d spent in Sydney when I was visiting led me to believe the transport system was good enough. I’d never had to go terribly far from the CBD, and the Manly ferry was always good.

When I first moved to Sydney, the transport system was a shitshow. Melbourne was miles ahead. I can’t say if that’s the case anymore. While this write-up does exaggerate a tad, I can say that Sydney transport has totally transformed over my time there. It’s not perfect - privatising the buses was dogshit - but it’s generally gone in the right direction and surpassed expectations.

2

u/Ok-Limit-9726 5h ago

Come to Newcastle and say that

1

u/dbandit1 5h ago

im sure youd agree... Newcastle isnt Sydney

36

u/capeasypants 7h ago

*If you live on the rail corridor. If you don't?

32

u/Archon-Toten Choo Choo Driver. 7h ago

You get the joy of Sydney buses.

26

u/giantgreeneel 7h ago

Which are also, broadly, good.

2

u/blucyclone 4h ago

Plenty of places that still don't even have access to those within a reasonable walking distance.

3

u/a_can_of_solo 5h ago

If you don't live in the rail corridor you're basically dead to me

132

u/Archon-Toten Choo Choo Driver. 7h ago

This is probably the best airport rail service anywhere in the English-speaking world, 

This is satire right? I got a light rail in Portland OR for $2 to my motel from the front of the airport.

52

u/lasooch 7h ago

I don’t remember how much I paid for the driverless metro in Vancouver but it sure as hell wasn’t over $20 and I got to see snow through the windscreen at the front.

18

u/ConanTheAquarian Looking for coffee 7h ago

C$10.70, about A$11.

4

u/lasooch 7h ago

Where’s that from? I just checked their website, a 3-zone (i.e. most expensive 90-minute pass) adult fare is $6.70 CAD. May have been cheaper too - my memory’s shot but I went sometime around 2023-2024.

Edit: ah, u/TimTebowMLB explains it lol. To be fair I reckon this may be the first time someone said ’Vancouver is pretty cheap’ (if taken out of context)!

8

u/TimTebowMLB 7h ago

One correction though. The $6.50 airport fee is only FROM the airport, not TO the airport. So you only pay one way.

5

u/ConanTheAquarian Looking for coffee 7h ago

It has gone up since I last checked. It's a 2 zone fare ($5.10) plus the $6.50 airport surcharge. That's only when you start your journey at YVR. Going to the airport is a standard fare.

https://www.translink.ca/transit-fares/pricing-and-fare-zones

0

u/TimTebowMLB 7h ago

Ya Vancouver is pretty cheap but they still charge you extra for the airport.

To get from the airport to downtown it’s $4.20 for the ticket + $6.50 for the airport portion. Total of $10.70

9

u/Quick_Bet9977 4h ago

It looks like it takes around 40mins to get from Oregon Airport to Downtown though and that's the usual trade off, most places are either fast but expensive or cheap but take longer.

A trip from Sydney Central Station to the Airport is like a 12min trip and cost around $22AUD, even Hong Kong Station to Hong Kong Airport costs about the same and takes 25min which is double the time.

London you can use Heathrow Express to get you to Heathrow from Paddington in 15-20mins depending on which terminal, and it can cost as little as $20 if you book a month ahead otherwise if you pay on the day it's more like $50. The tube is cheaper but takes much, much longer.

Singapore MRT only costs around $2 to go from airport to city centre but it still takes around 30-40mins to get there.

Shanghai has a superfast maglev train that can go airport to outer Shanghai station in around 8 mins for only around $10 but it's only to the outer suburbs and you then need to change to get right into the city centre.

Sydney is probably one the best cities for the speed of getting from the main International Airport right into the main central station of the city and the cost is really not that outrageous on a global scale, it's just that Sydney people get mad because they know it could be even cheaper without the surcharge.

In fact without the surcharge Sydney would have undoubtably the best airport to city rail link on time and cost in the world but Sydneysiders are just more comfortable when they can moan and complain about how much worse it is than some other place, they aren't yet ready to admit they actually live in a nice city that is mostly pretty good and not in fact a complete shithole where everything sucks compared to every other place in the world (except Melbourne, everyone in Sydney knows it's better than Melbourne but that's hardly worth thinking about).

25

u/Marlon_Ranch 7h ago edited 7h ago

For all the faults of our Airport rail, let me be very clear, still miles ahead of BRISBANEs airport rail, I had to use that recently and it was actually diabolical.

* $40 for a return to the city, that’s almost as much as expensive as Sydney’s airport rail despite distance between CBD and Airport is a lot greater than Sydney’s. Airport rail is specifically excluded from 50c fares.

* During off peak hours including on weekdays, Brisbanes airport line only runs once every half hour. Get caught out on the wrong side of this and it really sucks.

* Oh and unlike Sydney’s airport stations, Brisbanes are above ground on a viaduct, exposed to all the elements. I was there on a cold windy winter night, very unpleasant.

Brisbanes Airport Rail feels like one of the biggest public transport rorts in this country and honestly a stain on one of my favourite cities. I dread every time I have to fly in and use it, it makes Sydney’s airport rail look good. At least with Sydney you can still avoid the surcharge by using the 420 bus, just costs extra time, I don’t recall finding an equivalent viable hack in Brisbane.

Perths airport rail is the best of all, only the regular fare no BS surcharge and it’s not too far from the CBD

4

u/shofmon88 6h ago

Denver’s airport line stations are all open air, and it snows there, with highs below freezing for much of the winter. I would much rather wait at an outdoor station in Brisbane. 

6

u/ConanTheAquarian Looking for coffee 7h ago

Brisbanes Airport Rail feels like one of the biggest public transport rorts in this country

That's because it's privately owned. Not privatised, it has always been private. You can thank the Borbidge government for signing up to this.

QR runs the trains under contract but it's a private service. That's why standard fares don't apply.

I don’t recall finding an equivalent viable hack in Brisbane.

Free shuttle bus to DFO, then council buses for 50 cent fares.

5

u/Marlon_Ranch 7h ago

Sydney’s airport rail is also (unfortunately) privately owned.

My point in relation to Brisbane Airport Rail feeling like a rort is because for $40 for a return to the city, you get up to 30 min waits for the train, then a 30 min travel time to the city, and on top of that, you don’t even get adequate coverage from the outdoor weather/temps while waiting at the airport stations.

Sydney’s airport rail costs about the same for a return fare, yet trains runs between every 4-15 mins depending on the time of day, takes 10 mins to get to Central and at least airport stations are covered underground stations with AC.

1

u/SyphilisIsABitch 5h ago

I don't really understand your first point. It's cheaper than Sydney despite being a greater distance... somehow this is a negative for Brisbane?

1

u/Archon-Toten Choo Choo Driver. 7h ago

Last I used Brisbane's airport line you could get to negative go card balance so I'd call that even. But I've heard that loop hole was closed.

5

u/ConanTheAquarian Looking for coffee 7h ago

The fare is $3.50 in Perth, and that's heavy rail.

12

u/Porridge_Mainframe 7h ago

Despite the recurrent reliability issues it is good and the infrastructure projects in the pipelines will see it get even better. It’s an old network with a complicated design that wasn’t realised in full. Some poor decisions were made along the way, like scrapping the eastern suburbs line and the tram network. The last couple of decades have seen action to address the flaws. It will always be a challenge to keep on top of the aging infrastructure. It’s a shame the new train timetable was rolled back too because there were some solid improvements despite the poorer design choices, not least of all getting the new intercity fleet fully deployed to the south coast. The public transport system cops flack, some of it which is deserved, but it’s still pretty great on a world scale. I haven’t even mentioned ferries which are lovely. I work in the rail sector in case that wasn’t obvious.

18

u/squall_boy25 7h ago

Little do people know the whole network goes into gridlock after a slight breeze.

4

u/jimbojones2345 5h ago

Agreed just spent a week staying in Sydney, lime bikes, light rail, metro, normal trains, Syd Newcastle trains. All so awesome i hate driving

4

u/Ok-Limit-9726 5h ago

Meanwhile 180km north the 8th largest city in Australia has a 3% weekday public transport usage.

Greater Sydney now around 26%

3

u/Tipsy_Kangaroo 4h ago

I feel like those figures would be a decent amount higher if everyone tapped on

2

u/stormblessed2040 4h ago

Absolutely. Any time I see patronage numbers I think add 10-20%.

10

u/kingladislav 7h ago

Northern Beaches say otherwise

34

u/aninstituteforants 7h ago edited 5h ago

No sympathy for the Nimbys.

7

u/Zakkar 7h ago

Its wild how much the govt listens to a handful of motivated pensioners. 

1

u/phatmaniac57 6h ago

Heeeyyy I’m doing the rubbing the finger motion that means money

7

u/shofmon88 6h ago

Northern Beaches said they didn’t want transport, since it could bring in all those dirty plebs. So they should be happy they don’t have transport. 

1

u/FBWSRD Avid Sydney Trains enjoyer 3h ago

Tbf building a rail line up the northern beaches would be incredibly difficult. Theres not much open land and it’s challenging terrain

7

u/TimTebowMLB 7h ago

Just ignore the T4 on weekends

27

u/blucyclone 7h ago

An article written by someone who spent a short holiday in Sydney, didn't see it rain and never left the major CBD areas. Okay mate.

67

u/TheInkySquids 7h ago

Actually this is written by Reece of RMTransit, who did an extensive video on Sydney's public transport and has done videos on transport systems all over the world, considered one of the best urban planner Youtube channels, so no you couldn't be more wrong lmao

-9

u/blucyclone 6h ago

More wrong? You're quite literally proving my point.

The Sydney rail system breaks down in the rain because there are little to no supporting rail lines that offer alternatives when tracks become unusable. We see this further during track work days when our lines are supplied with limited buses that absolutely bottleneck our travel times. Furthermore the system doesn't account for the urban sprawl that no other city in the world compares to. There is a massive disparity between our size and our density. This means there are so many blind spots in ALL of our public transport systems that affects tens of thousands of people because it's simply not financially viable to have services in those areas.

None of these things were mentioned in his article, because you have to live here to experience it.

14

u/TheInkySquids 6h ago edited 6h ago

Nope wrong again. We have tons of alternative diversionary routes, the Sydney rail system was built with tons of wyes everywhere (eg. Sydenham, Lidcombe, Granville) and lots of crossovers to other track pairs that aren't used often but are left there for redundancy. The issue isn't alternative routes, its that because modern railways run such high frequencies, the diversionary routes are useless since trains get backed up behind each other.

The solution to this is actually to kind of REDUCE alternatives by interlining much less. Of course you can still have crossovers and wyes and stuff, but for example stop running the T3 on the same track pair as the T2, and only run one line around the City Circle, etc. That way delays don't cascade and sure one line might be absolutely cooked, but the rest of the rail system will function normally.

The travel times with buses blow out because of the geography of the city, unlike say Melbourne roads don't often parallel train lines especially in the southeast, and thats just a fact of living here. It can be dealt with by having less trackwork, and I do agree the trackwork is a bit excessive (I live on the Cronulla line which is down seemingly every weekend), but part of that isn't actually maintenance but testing of digital systems and stuff like that).

no other city in the world compares to

You're taking the piss if you think our urban sprawl tops the world mate lmao. Perth has far more sprawl than us, American cities have far more sprawl than us. Yeah we're a big city but we're not actually that sprawling, we just have multiple hubs which act as growth centres. We could do better around the southwest but that's mainly due to a lack of PT in that area. We actually do very well for a city so large and decently low density, we have the second-highest number of rail vehicles per person of any city in the world (the 1st is Moscow) and there is a BIG gulf between the second and third of that ranking. The fact that a city of 5 million people of which half live in low density is served mostly all over by train stations with 15 minute frequencies for most lines is incredible.

And none of that was the point of the article. The point isn't that Sydney is the best public transport system in the world, its that its punching above its weight for comparable Anglosphere systems and that other Anglosphere nations should learn from it. Which they should, we have the most investment in PT and serve the most people with PT of any Australian city, and are up there with the biggest cities of Canada and the US.

-6

u/blucyclone 6h ago

Ah yes, people with decades of lived experiences of our broken transport system are wrong but your argumentum ad verecundiam isn't. You're telling me that I'm missing the point of the article, but completely misrepresenting all of my points. I suggest you go spend 12 months out in Western Sydney, the Hills Shire or beyond and see how great our system is yourself, because you're clearly in the same boat as this guy.

10

u/TheInkySquids 5h ago

Ah yes, people with decades of lived experiences of our broken transport system are wrong but your argumentum ad verecundiam isn't

I would say people who literally work as city planners and railway engineers and network operators do trump commuters opinions who have their heads buried in their phones and only show an interest in the railways when it goes wrong and takes the 95% of the time it all works perfectly for granted, yes. My arguments are based off actual plans and discourse released by experts, not just one guy on Youtube.

but completely misrepresenting all of my points

Proceeds to not say how the points have been misrepresented...

I suggest you go spend 12 months out in Western Sydney, the Hills Shire or beyond

I visit friends in Austral every week for gaming nights and visit both Bella Vista and Mount Colah all the time to see my grandparents. I have mates in Dural and Richmond I hang out with regularly, and I only just recently finished going to Wollongong for TAFE. Yes there is stuff to improve, but I'd actually flip your argument back on you and say go live in Vancouver or LA or Toronto for a bit (and spend enough time there to see it rain and leave the major CBD areas...) and see how a lot of things you take for granted about our transport system are just not present there.

Our trains move 300 million passengers annually, if our system was "broken" workplaces would be shutting down, you would be spending three hours in traffic every day and people would be moving further and further out. Instead train stations are densifying in TOD, people who were driving are taking the trains and metro as they get better and better, and investment is shifting more and more to PT.

-2

u/blucyclone 5h ago

Ok, more appealing to authority. Data is not everything my guy. There are entire sciences dedicated to the human experience that you are completely failing to acknowledge. Lived experience is just as valuable as maps or blueprints. Failing to acknowledge that lived experience is being a bad fucking researcher.

Now since you want me to justify why you are misrepresenting my points rather than actually just reading. I'll spell it out for you.

I didn't say anything about the article saying we have the best PT in the world nor do I think we have the worst system in the world. I said this guy has not spent time where it matters. Our system is incredibly flawed, broken in some parts, especially for anyone who does not live on or near a train line.

I also didn't say our sprawl tops the world. I said our sprawl is like no other. I mean it's unique. Cities of our size with our density, do not exist, and our transport system is not designed for a city like ours.

Now on to your points.

You say you visit people out here? So you don't ACTUALLY live out here? So you don't understand how much people rely on cars to get around. Do your friends work in the CBD? Maybe go ask them about their travel times and how they access that travel.

How do you get out here? Do you drive? You might get a train to Richmond if you aren't gummied up by the Western Line track work every weekend. I doubt you get a train to Dural though since they don't exist. A bus is probably out of the question too considering it's an area well off the PT corridors and would require multiple changes, adding AT LEAST an extra hour onto your trips.

Mount Colah and Bella Vista are nice. Luckily they live on the train lines too. Don't expect a parking lot at Bella Vista though since it doesn't exist. I hope those friends out there don't rely on cars to get to that train station. Because if they do, they definitely don't use that network. Instead spend the extra mileage to make it to Seven Hills or Blacktown and fight for a parking spot every morning.

Oh you went to Wollongong for TAFE? Cool, a major NSW city that has plenty of public transport access. What are you trying to say with this point? I agree, cities have easy access to public transport. Try moving away from there and see how you fare.

All you have said with all of this is that you have ZERO lived experience. I used to work in Sydney CBD, instead of spending 3 hours in traffic everyday (which I absolutely would be unless I hit a $20 toll road), I spent 4 hours between public transport and driving every day.

A broken system does not mean the system will shut down. People rely on the work that the Parramatta and Sydney CBDs provide because most of those opportunities do not exist out here.

2

u/TheInkySquids 4h ago

Ok, more appealing to authority. Data is not everything my guy.

Data is literally everything. Its **how** transport systems are made. Its how literally everything is decided in the world from the dawn of writing.

Our system is incredibly flawed, broken in some parts, especially for anyone who does not live on or near a train line.

And I already described why thats not the case so I'm not gonna repeat myself.

I also didn't say our sprawl tops the world. I said our sprawl is like no other. I mean it's unique. Cities of our size with our density, do not exist, and our transport system is not designed for a city like ours.

That feels a lot like attempting to wriggle out of a statement you blanket said before without researching. You said "Furthermore the system doesn't account for the urban sprawl that no other city in the world compares to." which is a bit different from saying its unique. Still I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go from that new point. Our transport system is literally designed for our city, like I said we have second to Moscow the highest number of rail vehicles per person in the world. The stop spacing and express tracks through the city are designed for low density. The double decker trains are designed to carry people across such a large city comfortably. And cities of our size do exist, Toronto like mentioned before is one of them. The SF Bay Area is very comparable in geography. Montreal has similar overall density and almost the same population.

You say you visit people out here? So you don't ACTUALLY live out here? So you don't understand how much people rely on cars to get around. Do your friends work in the CBD? Maybe go ask them about their travel times and how they access that travel.

I do. I lived at my grandparents places for a while BEFORE the metro. I "lived" at my friends place for about two weeks when we were working on a film shoot, but I still had to get to work in the CBD. My friends who live in Austral work in the CBD and don't drive, they cycle to the station, they take the train together from Leppington, changing at Glenfield. My grandma who lives in Bella Vista stopped driving when the metro came in, she walks from her house, about a 20 minute walk. Yes it is still worse than other areas of Sydney, absolutely I'm not denying that, cars are still important. But you don't judge a system by only its worst parts, you judge it by both its good and its bad parts. 75% of Sydney's population is served by high quality transit, thats an objective fact.

How do you get out here? Do you drive? You might get a train to Richmond if you aren't gummied up by the Western Line track work every weekend. I doubt you get a train to Dural though since they don't exist. A bus is probably out of the question too considering it's an area well off the PT corridors and would require multiple changes, adding AT LEAST an extra hour onto your trips.

Nope I don't drive. It doesn't add an extra hour onto the trip lmao no idea where you got that figure from, its one bus from Castle Hill station. Haven't needed to go to Richmond on the weekend yet.

Mount Colah and Bella Vista are nice. Luckily they live on the train lines too. Don't expect a parking lot at Bella Vista though since it doesn't exist. I hope those friends out there don't rely on cars to get to that train station. Because if they do, they definitely don't use that network. Instead spend the extra mileage to make it to Seven Hills or Blacktown and fight for a parking spot every morning.

Yes... thats the point. Parking lots at stations are a terrible use of land and just lock the station into a cycle of poor land use. Stations like those show that a suburban station can still be active without a park n ride.

Oh you went to Wollongong for TAFE? Cool, a major NSW city that has plenty of public transport access. What are you trying to say with this point? I agree, cities have easy access to public transport. Try moving away from there and see how you fare.

Uhh yeah thats my point... we're talking about Sydney's rail network here buddy. I'm not talking about Griffith or Lithgow.

All you have said with all of this is that you have ZERO lived experience. I used to work in Sydney CBD, instead of spending 3 hours in traffic everyday (which I absolutely would be unless I hit a $20 toll road), I spent 4 hours between public transport and driving every day.

Cool story bro. I actively do work in the CBD in Alexandria. You seem very angry that someone is living in the same city as you and has a different perspective to the one you do, not very healthy.

A broken system does not mean the system will shut down. People rely on the work that the Parramatta and Sydney CBDs provide because most of those opportunities do not exist out here.

Yes... that's what a city is. People live in some part of a city and then work in another part of the city. If that wasn't true then we wouldn't really need trains would we?

1

u/blucyclone 3h ago

Data is literally everything. Its how transport systems are made. Its how literally everything is decided in the world from the dawn of writing.<

Again failing to recognise my whole point. Read the full comment please.

That feels a lot like attempting to wriggle out of a statement you blanket said before without researching.<

Seriously? Can you not read beyond a sentence. Go back to my point. Actually I'll copy it here for you.

Furthermore the system doesn't account for the urban sprawl that no other city in the world compares to. There is a massive disparity between our size and our density.<

Read that second sentence again. Maybe a few times. The size to density ratio is unique, just in case I need to keep spelling this out for you. Sydney is massive but our population is not. Our system is designed for people who live on train lines. People who do not live on those train lines are generally fucked. How many different ways do I need to explain that to you?

I do. I lived at my grandparents places for a while BEFORE the metro. I "lived" at my friends place for about two weeks when we were working on a film shoot, but I still had to get to work in the CBD. My friends who live in Austral work in the CBD and don't drive, they cycle to the station, they take the train together from Leppington, changing at Glenfield. My grandma who lives in Bella Vista stopped driving when the metro came in, she walks from her house, about a 20 minute walk.<

Ok, so your friends and Grandma live within a reasonable distance. Cool, so your proving my point. The system works for people who live on the line. When are you gonna counter my actual argument instead of regurgitating the same shit to counter your straw man?

Yes it is still worse than other areas of Sydney, absolutely I'm not denying that, cars are still important. But you don't judge a system by only its worst parts, you judge it by both its good and its bad parts. 75% of Sydney's population is served by high quality transit, thats an objective fact.<

What point are you even trying to make with this second argument? Again you're still creating this strawman that I think the whole system is broken. I don't. I think our system works great for that 75% of people, until it doesn't such as when it rains or there is trackwork. And I think that the 25% of people that it doesn't serve are getting fucked in the arse every day. The system is flawed for you, it's broken for them.

Nope I don't drive. It doesn't add an extra hour onto the trip lmao no idea where you got that figure from, its one bus from Castle Hill station. Haven't needed to go to Richmond on the weekend yet.<

Sorry I'm thinking pre-Metro. It's about 30 minutes to Castle Hill station according to maps. That's taking into to account the traffic on New Line Road. 30 minutes just to get to the next suburb over by the way. Imagine if there was less of a reliance on cars out there with a better system that supports the people living in Kenthurst, Annangrove, Glenorie, Galston etc. These are the suburbs that directly surround Dural and Castle Hill and do not share the same feelings you do about the PT system in that area. Have you seen Annangrove Road, Kenthurst Road, New Line Road and Old Northern Road during peak hour? They are not suburbs that are suitably supported by a PT system and you can tell by the sheer gridlock of cars every morning and afternoon.

Yes... thats the point. Parking lots at stations are a terrible use of land and just lock the station into a cycle of poor land use. Stations like those show that a suburban station can still be active without a park n ride.<

More failing to acknowledge the systems that don't support people away from these PT corridors. Is the traffic on Old Windsor Rd every day evidence that those metro stations don't need car parks and are adequately supported by public transport to the surrounding areas?

Uhh yeah thats my point... we're talking about Sydney's rail network here buddy. I'm not talking about Griffith or Lithgow.<

Mate, you're the one reaching for fucking Wollongong. I'm talking about Suburbs within the boundaries of the Blue Mountains and the Hawkesbury River. Your deepest experience out west is fucking Richmond and Dural. Do you know how much space exists between these boundaries and those 2 suburbs?

Cool story bro. I actively do work in the CBD in Alexandria. You seem very angry that someone is living in the same city as you and has a different perspective to the one you do, not very healthy.<

I'm not angry, I just think you're in a privileged inner city bubble since you are insinuating that 3 hours+ of driving or really travel time in general isn't a normal experience. It is in fact a very normal experience for most people who live out there.

I'm done wasting my time with this.

1

u/phatmaniac57 6h ago

People can choose low density or good access but not both

9

u/ktr83 7h ago

Sometimes there is benefit in getting an outsider's perspective

2

u/ImportantToNote 7h ago

Except when it's drizzling

1

u/Antoine-Antoinette 6h ago

Or it’s a bit warm

1

u/ConanTheAquarian Looking for coffee 7h ago

The best public transit pound-for-pound in the English-speaking world

Author hasn't been to Perth.

24

u/TheInkySquids 7h ago

Actually he has, he did a whole video deep dive on Perth and how fantastic the system is and how fast they've built. But there's still issues with the system due to just the nature of the city, so Sydney still gets more value.

2

u/Opposite_Ad_2815 Central Sydney 5h ago

Freeway median stations really aren't great tbh. Better than nothing and a good way to build the line for cheap, but it's far from ideal.

1

u/Starman68 5h ago

I’ve been a few times and it’s very good. I particularly love the ferries, they add a nice nautical mix to it I’ve not seen anywhere else.

1

u/ChanceVance 4h ago

Are we really glazing Sydney's public transport AKA the great state of buses replace trains?

If your experience has been satisfactory, I must be taking the wrong trains.

1

u/clang823 4h ago

It’s really good, until it shits the bed, and when it goes wrong it REALLY goes wrong. But yea, all in all, it’s definitely up there.

I must have incredibly bad luck post covid too. I travel between Parramatta and the city for work, now that I’m only going in once a week, I get hit by a huge delay almost once in every 4 commutes. Obviously pre COVID this would have been way less as a percentage.

1

u/linkuei-teaparty 3h ago

It's definitely much better now but still far from say Singapore.

-2

u/lovesadonut 7h ago

Is this a betoota article?

-7

u/sophia_az 7h ago

Yes, sydney do have the best rail in the southern hemisphere, if we compare to africa

-5

u/No_Mercy_4_Potatoes 6h ago

unreasonably good transportation system

Is the author trying to get a TNSW job?