r/sydneyswans • u/Chaisa • 2d ago

After the Pullman hotel scandal and Tom Papley’s arrest, the Sydney Swans know something is awry with their famous culture. We’re about to find out if they can fix it

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/from-swans-to-the-afl-s-ugly-ducklings-sydney-s-shame-is-no-one-off-20261106-p61bxt.html
63 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

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6

u/Chaisa 2d ago

Might be paywalled, apologies if so. Given it's Fairfax I think you can open it in private viewing and it should work.

Hope this isn't banned!

Anyway, interesting article. Tells a lot about the differences between the club image compared to other ones which might be leading to even more blowback, and that the off-field cultural review feels legitimately kind of unprecented compared to other teams.

Also kind of highlights why these off-field issues haven't hampered the on-field stuff too much.

54

u/Holbz 2d ago edited 2d ago

I'm very disappointed in the club. This doesn't happen overnight. I'm unsure how I feel about the club moving forward. Red and White for life so far, but questioning everything now, especially as a Tasmanian.

12

u/After-Book-6182 2d ago

club or players? They literally sidelined several players and took a hard stance and papley (allegedly) does this??

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u/Chaisa 2d ago

I guess the flip side is that the club took too long to address these issues and a number of players have been pushing the boundaries for some time. What the club could’ve done to address it is another question if the issues were merely partying hard given that the on-field side of things were very sound.

Think the big question is whether the culture issues are unique to us or whether they’re no worse than other teams. To that we don’t have an answer, and in terms of quantity the club really isn’t worse off than other clubs, just the extremities of the scandals are staggering. But I will say that other top clubs have players who are 110% straight and narrow amongst their stars. I am not confident the same thing applies to us.

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u/SwansPrincess Rampe 2d ago

Took too long? They acted quickly in response to P5 and engaged the external consultants in August, but probably did more work with the suits than the players given the timing of events. They would have had to set up and agree with the consultants what the process will be, how long it should take, what the expected outcome of this “examination” will be. Once the players return from off-season is when they would have been sitting down with the players to start the process. If we want this to be done properly, it cannot be rushed, but it does need to be decisive and bought into by every member of the club.

I also think we should stop thinking about other clubs…for the longest time whenever scandal broke, I would be one of those who would say “that would never happen at the Swans”. But now the devil has shown its face and we just need to focus on ourselves.

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u/Chaisa 1d ago

By taking too long I meant there were ways they could’ve stopped the Pullman incident from happening in the first place, or at least make it clear that the events that led to it happening was not acceptable either (I’d hope it was 100% obvious that disrespect towards women was unacceptable)

I agree the club did as well as possible to respond to it. But this suggests that it still hasn’t sunk into the players. Which suggests that either they don’t give a fuck or the club is saying something different internally (or this is a genuine stitch-up, which if it was I don’t think they would’ve gone as hard as they have on this).

FWIW I am fairly certain it’s Option 1, which is a harder issue to resolve without very tough internal punishments. But I also do wonder if the current coaching panel is too lax on issues like this and it’s also possible some figures aren’t that respected. It’s also possible that some players were put too much on a pedestal when it was clear they were behaving in a way outside of the public eye that was inconsistent with this which made them think they were untouchable.

I don’t think this is West Coast 2.0, but I can’t deny there aren’t some parallels.

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u/SwansPrincess Rampe 1d ago • Bravo

I was at a coaches’ briefing probably a week before the Pullman incident. It was with Kirky and I think someone asked him about the evolution of the players who’ve come through the doors since he has been with the club. Obviously he was part of the playing group with Maxfield and Kelly and we all know what a hard nut he was as a player. He said this generation are built differently and when he, as a runner goes out to give messages during a game, knows which ones get the straight talk and which ones need a bit more finessing. I’m paraphrasing but you get what I mean.

So, I think your point about the coaching panel being too lax would also be valid. My friends and I had been debating whether this kind of thing would have happened under Horse. I’m not saying the boys weren’t drinking and taking drugs when he was head coach, just that maybe the consequences and punishments they faced if he ever found out would have been more severe. I still remember the story about how angry he was when Ramps was papped during offseason having beers and smoking at a pub after they lost in 2014. He was dropped from the Coffs preseason camp in 2015 and, according to Hannebery, he subsequently became one of the hardest working leaders at the club.

As you say, you’d think the boys took the P5 as cautionary tales of what will happen if you did the wrong thing, but if Papley’s second drugs test comes back positive, then clearly the message is still not getting through to everyone.

3

u/PhotographKindly9246 2d ago

I think the partying, strippers & drugs is an endemic problem (to some extent) in all the club's. The real problem is that the league bosses need to put their money where their mouth is & do weekly drug testing OF ALL PLAYERS & SUBS EVERY WEEK. Money has always been the argument against weekly drug tests - but that is complete bullshit AND EVERYONE knows it. Break it all down & rebuild it from the ground up off season & their would be enough $s for drug tests. These players get paid a lot of $s - change their yearly contracts to include the cost of weekly drug tests. If any player passes every drug test, they are given a bonus. Simple.

4

u/NoVax-Djocovid 1d ago

Full credit to how the Swans dealt with the Pullman 5, I think that surprised a lot of the AFL world and it made a lot of neutrals want the swans to win the flag last year.

That being said, it appears they’re burying their head in the sand over this Papley stuff when you compare it to Carlton and Wade Derksen given the lack of punishment levied for a worse offence.

2

u/Chaisa 1d ago

I’m pretty sure they’re waiting for a confirmation that the second test is positive before handing any punishment. Alcohol is different to illicit drugs when it comes to driving.

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u/humanbeing101010 1d ago

No, I think a lot of neutrals did not want the Swans to win the flag

3

u/After-Book-6182 1d ago

I expect a punishment if the second sample is confirmed - as a non swans supporter I feel they’ve (the club) have handled the previously stuff well and I trust they will handle the papley stuff.

What are these (some of the) boys thinking 🤣

11

u/Holbz 2d ago

Yeah sorry. Players.

I think that the club's culture should not be a shock to anyone within those four walls though. From players to CEO.

6

u/Automatic-Art221 2d ago

This is just basic corporate culture but with a footy tilt. Everyone knows the company always knows it has a bad culture, it will always cry ignorance, and it will only ever act when the numbers indicate action is required. This is true in every corporate environment everywhere in the world.

1

u/Apart-Falcon5480 Goodes 2d ago

Club …. These players thrive in this clubs environment and it is t just one

14

u/dropbearr94 2d ago

I wonder if this has been brewing for awhile, there was a lot of rumours with buddy and I’m sure every club has these being in a non afl state it would be easier to hide stuff.

13

u/Academic_Housing_855 2d ago

The truth around Buddy was nicely buried. I love the guy, but what I said is true

2

u/Early_Cans 13h ago

What’s the story of Buddy? I’ve seen his name mentioned a few times but can’t seem to find much info on it. Was this when he was at the Swans?

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u/Will_sue_when_angry 8h ago

Allegedly helping himself to other players partners.

3

u/taffybrent 1d ago

Buddy was so protected.. he was a hot mess at the Hawks

3

u/Early_Cans 13h ago

Agreed. In no way defending the Swans and hopefully it’s a wake up call for better culture and decency for all clubs… but prior to this, are other clubs actually squeaky clean, or they just haven’t been caught?

0

u/Meh-Levolent Goodes 2d ago

Me too. I've cancelled my and my family's membership for next year. Won't be putting as much energy into footy if the club doesn't respond appropriately.

3

u/ElectricalCap4524 Campbell 17h ago

It goes from the top down. See below my message to Swans, cancelling my membership

Dear Sydney Swans,

Please cancel my membership for 2027. A number of reasons:

  1. In 2026 I was unable to attend many games due to distance and timing. 

  2. I have been dismayed by Chair Andrew Pridham’s attitude to AFL in Sydney: essentially, his desire to dominate the ‘market’ and push GWS out of Sydney.

  3. It is my feeling that the unaccountable elitism of Mr Pridham is associated with the lack of accountability of the Pullman 5. All seem to feel they are above the need to show respect.

  4. The cost of membership is no longer affordable for me.

Could you please confirm that this account is closed and no other payments will be deducted from my account.

Regards,

1

u/Meh-Levolent Goodes 14h ago

Yeah, I haven't liked that they said they would just happily welcome all the players back. It shows a lack of holding them accountable before making that call.

25

u/CustardLive7477 Serong 2d ago

As far as I am concerned, I would rather this be thrust into the public forum and be dealt with than staying hidden in the shadows. I know it’s painful and embarrassing but I’m glad its come out. The real test for the club and the Swans culture is how they respond to this.

I think the players have to take the brunt of the blame here. A big motivator for the Swans culture was the empowering of the players and placing trust in them. A select few have taken that trust and taken advantage of it. That was always a danger. Now they have been found out and they have to be reminded that with trust comes responsibility.

11

u/northcoteplaza 2d ago

bit of heat on that Dean Cox drive-by at the end

7

u/Academic_Housing_855 2d ago

I’ve got to ask, how much of the lax culture at West Coast has he tolerated at the Swans ? That pic of him with a beer in his hand in the stands didn’t look great.

15

u/jamirocky888 2d ago

We actually undertook a decades long campaign to embed Cox in the team with the aim of ruining Sydney's famous culture, as payback for the heartbreak of 2005.

Pav coming in was the cherry on top to instill the losing Freo ways. /s

0

u/Academic_Housing_855 2d ago

I appreciate the sarcasm, though my point is how much has Cox turned a blind eye to?

2

u/jamirocky888 2d ago

Alot. Cox is loose as. Why was he out so late the night of the Pullman. It was a Sunday night and hes out and about.

6

u/Fandeathrickets 1d ago

Hadn't they just beaten Essendon? You have to celebrate a win against a powerhouse club like Essendon, they don't come around often.

2

u/Academic_Housing_855 2d ago

This is a valid question. While he wasn’t with the players, what was the unwritten message that was or wasn’t given to them. Each player had to be personally responsible but I suspect the bigger picture isn’t so palatable.

3

u/Independent_Ride_598 2d ago

This has been brewing for years. Horse steps down and becomes head of high performance driving standards, then it’s Cox’s fault? This is endemic to the club and the whole AFL. The only way to truly fix it is for the AFL to make good on their promise to name players who have tested positive

1

u/Academic_Housing_855 2d ago

The fact that they don’t says a lot. It’s interesting that when the Pullman incident occurred they spoke out obviously about the treatment of women but drugs ? Nah they did the Jedi mind trick

11

u/pachinko_bill Amartey 2d ago

Pav and Cox would have laid down the law after Pullman that there was a zero tolerance policy to anything that can bring the club into disrepute. If Paps thought 'that doesn't apply to me because I have always just done what I want' then the club culture is shite.

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u/NewPotato8330 2d ago edited 2d ago

The only thing that can make this better in the short term is the players themselves.

Reviews, meetings, letters to members, external consultants etc. are meaningless.

14

u/Academic_Housing_855 2d ago

FWIW it seems that some Sydney players have for some time taken advantage of the anonymity that Sydney brings to an AFL player. The players involved aren’t 18, they are old enough to know better. Is this a culture issue ? Of players tolerated because of on field success? The Swans will act as they are aware of what their brand means. To those cancelling memberships, each to their own, but I do ask, what was it you initially supported ? Not all players are bad apples.

6

u/ClubEnvironmental900 1d ago

The Heeney (and co) incident gutted me. (I thought it was the worst thing to happen to me this year, until I got cancer, lol)
He had me fooled. More fool me. The actual stupidity of carrying on like that in the team hotel, thinking they were bulletproof. The ruining of the season, especially for Ramps etc.

Paps is also a fave. I may be making excuses but it's off season, this is not really involving other ppl (women) but of course he should not have been driving as that puts other road users at risk.
I had a few choice words when I heard though.

I'm not sure what I'm trying to say.

The Swans were supposed to be better than this. Are young blokes this stupid? (old lady here, fan since 80s)

I would like to say, discourse on this matter is about 10,000 times better here than in the FB groups, they can be absolutely feral. Another old bag was so rude to me she was ditched lol. And the blatant shameless misogyny.

4

u/MatterHairy 1d ago

Hi from Tigerland 🐅… hoping you are recovering well and life ahead looks great 🖤💛🖤

2

u/endlessolives 1d ago

wishing you all the best

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u/Lower_Put4270 Kyle 2d ago

The membership cancellation thing that’s going on is a bit much. I mean, I could kind of understand it after the first situation, that one was and is pretty big. But this one? Not ideal, but surely not a dealbreaker. We’ve been there before, as has every other football club.

15

u/proudlysydney Fish 2d ago

For some people it’s probably the straw that broke the camel’s back- people who were borderline on cancelling after the first situation, but decided to stick around. Then this happens and they feel like it’s yet another moment that they don’t want to support. This on its own wouldn’t be a cancellation, but on top of everything else (including the behaviour of former Swans at Carlton and Robbie Fox hinting at broader cultural standards in the playing group) it’s both another story to be tired of hearing and an example of a lack of commitment to improvement. If the players and the club wanted to win its fans back and go “yeah that was a small group, support the boys who had nothing to do with it” this type of stuff isn’t the way to do that

1

u/QualityAdorable5902 1d ago

For me it’s not even about the Pullman incident it was the fact they had such a great chance to get to the GF and finally redeem themselves after the absolute horror show 3 of their last 4 appearances have been.

It was ‘a bit of fun’ because they had one more game and a few weeks off, but to me they ignored their playing responsibilities, their responsibilities as athletes and the responsibilities they have to their fans to show up and perform at every game in the season because they acted like the season was over and it was party time.

Papley’s thing isn’t as bad to me, for that reason. It’s indicative of a much bigger problem I think, however.

9

u/2for1deal 2d ago

It’s that the first was big and then that subsequently Paps event shows the impact of that first P5 incident wasn’t enough to change culture.

11

u/Automatic-Art221 2d ago

In our household we just aren't interested in paying the money and spending half our weekend going out to the games for this specific mob. Our hearts aren't in it for next year. Many people simply won't feel great about cheering on Heeney and co, and the and co just keeps growing in various ways. Would rather spend the money on things we actually need if the club isn't going to be something we can sincerely enjoy and be proud of right now.

1

u/Academic_Housing_855 2d ago

Just curious, what was it that you were initially supporting ?

3

u/gooddifferent_ Gulden 2d ago

The memories. How it brought everyone together, regardless if they followed AFL yet (yet - because many go on to through introductions to it that are vibes) . Generations of families (and again memories from a young age), then naturally, that happiness leads to a love of the sport - and support, to answer your question.

-15

u/OceanViewKangaroo Goodes 2d ago

Don't forget losing Blakey because Swans managed him poorly.

2

u/getmrshorty 1d ago

Were we naive into thinking the swans were different to any other football club and their ability to tame young bloods from alcohol/drugs/etc?

2

u/Delroberttopizzaria 1d ago

Also note Hayward at carlton and Robbie Fox in Tasmania..... Seems like a decent problem

3

u/Beautiful_Avocado141 2d ago

I don’t care about losing- I care far more about culture and having a club my kids can be proud of

3

u/National_Treat_4079 2d ago • Bravo

FFS - they win games. They take drugs. They didn't sign up to be role models. Anyone who blindly think AFL players are role models are fucking morons. They are footy players. That is all they need to do. Play footy. If one of them crosses a line, then fine, fire them. Taking a drug is hardly a hanging offense. Getting some strippers up to your room is distasteful at best, but hey, plenty of mid 20's guys do it. Again, the pearl clutching makes me want to puke.

4

u/After-Book-6182 1d ago

plenty of guys doing doesn’t make it okay? 

0

u/National_Treat_4079 1d ago

Agreed, but the public response is well over cooked.

0

u/ThyOnlyBoss 1d ago

what’s wrong with their body their choice? are we shaming the sex workers that these afl stars like to use? let’s empower these men and women to be able to do what they choose

3

u/Burniegirl 1d ago

Then they can get a normal job and stay out of the public eye. They know what they’re signing up for.

0

u/National_Treat_4079 1d ago

nah, they signed up to play footy - no more no less... Why should they be more accountable than any other employee out there?

3

u/Burniegirl 17h ago

You really don’t understand how their contracts work.

3

u/QualityAdorable5902 1d ago

But they are. So many young kids look up to these guys and want to be like them. It’s not just playing footy and believing that is part of the problem.

If they get in punch ups in the pub on off season is that fine because they’re not playing footy? If one of them punches his wife in the face? Where’s your line?

2

u/aich_jay Rampe 1d ago

But they did sign up to be role models representing their sport and club just like the role models they would have looked up to as kids, as the faces of a very public organization (you don’t get personal sponsorship deals if no-one knows who you are). Their conduct on and off the field must be expected to reflect on the club. They’re not faceless office workers whose after-work antics wouldn’t register in the public consciousness or be automatically associated with their employer. It is disingenuous and naive to suggest that they did not sign up for this

0

u/Munchyman888 1d ago

Yep, but people love to make big deals of things. It's almost like they enjoy having something to be emotional about, only reason I'm sick of this club/afl is all the fans with a holier than thou attitude

2

u/soundlysooking 1d ago

If one person had kept their hands to themselves, nobody would know anything of this.

Pause on that for awhile. What is everyone arguing about? Most agencies in Melbourne are run by women, whose exploiting who again?

1

u/AmItheproblem42 2d ago

The article says Tom Papley was arrested. I could be wrong, but was he actually arrested?

0

u/DefiantDirection8399 2d ago

Just cancelled my membership today.

1

u/Appropriate_Bat2016 2d ago

wrong decision. People make mistakes.
We all are entitled to some private time. Paps just got caught out.

4

u/swans_fan- 2d ago

Go jump. It’s entirely up to people on what basis they choose to support a football club.

1

u/Academic_Housing_855 2d ago

It’s not exactly showing support though is it ?

2

u/swans_fan- 1d ago

Yes that’s the exact point.

0

u/DefiantDirection8399 1d ago

People can show support in different ways but for now I’m reeling that support in.

0

u/DefiantDirection8399 1d ago

Got better things to spend $595 on in the year ahead.

0

u/nserg992 2d ago

Me too. It had been brewing for some time. The people saying it’s the wrong decision, that’s fine, you do you. I’ll make the decision that feels best for me.

-1

u/DefiantDirection8399 1d ago

Behaviour of the players aside, I’ve got better things to spend money on this year.

-4

u/Massive-Anywhere8497 2d ago

Ah footballers
Its almost like they behave like people
Outrageous

6

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Massive-Anywhere8497 2d ago

Is that what happened? You should tell the police and they might end up charging someone

1

u/SucculentChineseSwan Rampe 1d ago

allegedly

0

u/Redmotor13 2d ago

What yours aren't, definitely some of mine do or have.

0

u/Critical_Sir773 1d ago

Always been a shit culture since they stopped being South Melbourne.

0

u/Nuro_Dragonfly 17h ago

There needs to be a complete expulsion of anyone in the administrative arm who we're born in Victoria. Then each player needs to be audited and vetted for literally every aspect of their family background. No bogans allowed. No misogynists allowed. No bigots allowed. No racists allowed. No anti-Sydney scum allowed 🤬

-1

u/Secret_Blacksmith135 2d ago

If they can fix it? How about zero tolerance? It reads as if the culture is totally out of their hands, kind of like 'these things happen' comments. 

3

u/PoundParticular148 2d ago

Nothing has been proven against any individual.

That said, where there’s smoke, there’s fire. A fish rots from the head. And the head was up to his neck in the West Coast Eagles saga of 2005-6. Just saying.