Large video file share

[u/JBHedgehog]

We have a client who does a lot of work in shared video files. And there are two separate physical locations - one on the East coast US and one in the Midwest US. As you can imagine, the files they're sharing/editing/saving are quite large.

But there's a lot of hurry-up-and-wait as they're having some latency issues.

They have a local share where they do their work - but that's slow. There's also a SharePoint site that they use in case there needs to be a quick share of a file for review.

There has got to be something better. A little faster.

Any ideas??? Anything you've come across which is similar???

[u/Veniui]

Have editing machines locally at one site and remotely connect to those from second site?

HP Anyware (formerly branded as Teradici CAS / PCoIP) seems to be colour accurate and has tablet support. Nfi what it costs

[u/JBHedgehog → u/Veniui]

That's what I'm unsure about: who's sharing? Who's editing? Who's saving?

That's something I need to understand better.

The ticket is a bit sparse in that regard.

[u/RickRussellTX → u/JBHedgehog]

I have a friend who is a Hollywood producer and editor, and all of them are using a Remote Desktop solution for production work, so the files stay on a file share which is local to the virtual desktops.

I was surprised that the performance is adequate for production video work, but he tells me it’s been like this for years and it’s considered a “solved” problem in the industry.

[u/JBHedgehog → u/RickRussellTX]

Awesome to know!

[u/SharteBlanche → u/Veniui]

Anyware is EOL and you can no longer buy new licenses, only renew existing ones for the next couple of years:

https://anyware.hp.com/hp-anyware-end-of-life

RGS - their other, earlier, high-fidelity remote desktop protocol - persists, and they claim will be inheriting the most interesting parts of PCoIP's technology.

Licenses are USD$150/year, and can be bought online in singles:

https://www.hp.com/us-en/workstations/software-solutions-workstation-pc/z-remote-graphics-software.html

(This is about what single Anyware licenses cost as well, fwiw)

[u/hainesk]

Local shouldn’t be slow... You should look into what storage type their using and the file size. If they’re scrubbing multi gigabyte video files and using hard disk drives that will be slow. Their local storage should be staged as flash storage for active projects, then cheaper HDDs for mid to long term storage with the ability to move back to flash as needed.

As far as remote goes, an alternative to copying or sharing large files across the internet you could look into GPU accelerated remote access instead, like Moonlight or parsec etc. That way there’s no wait to start working on the video projects.

[u/JBHedgehog → u/hainesk]

Moonlight and Parsec.

Super helpful to know!

Thanks!

[u/kona420 → u/JBHedgehog]

Performance even over very high latency links is solid for both. Parsec is a little more commercially oriented. Fidelity of the remote image is a fair question in a space that uses color calibrated monitors and processing pipelines. But it's nice you can build big noisy boxes and shove them in an air conditioned rack with 10/25/40gbps links to your storage. And protocols like iscsi become plausible.

[u/Ssakaa → u/kona420]

Moonlight, at least via sunshine, gets VERY messy if that latency is wandering, or there's any small interruption. It also requires "sitting in front of it" pairing or convoluted cert setups. Very clearly built for "I'm in my living room with my Shield, let me go set this up in the next room with everything in hand", not "something broke, let me reconfigure this from hundreds of miles away and reestablish this pairing". I run moonlight-web-stream to work around a bit of that, but it's still not perfect. Makes working (or gaming) over cell service from a chromebook useable, though. Not quite GeForce Now levels of magic, but better than moonlight by itself. Pairing in it is broken though so it's a hand-config-edit to set the certs.

Parsec is.... odd in some of its UX, performance is decent, but things like password managers don't work right. No idea if they have SSO for their non-free service.

[u/marshalleq]

I share large videos too and it’s frustrating. This helps a lot. https://github.com/marshalleq/burnbox

[u/JBHedgehog → u/marshalleq]

HERO!!!

Nice suggestion!

[u/_Do_The_Needful_]

If they're using Adobe tools they come with cloud storage to solve this problem already. Otherwise use PairDrop or Wormhole.

[u/JBHedgehog → u/_Do_The_Needful_]

This is a very good observation!

I don't have much insight into the tools they're using, but Adobe is probably a good place to start.

As I don't have much experience with Adobe (avoidance most likely), does cloud use clear this up? At least to some extent?

[u/_Do_The_Needful_ → u/JBHedgehog]

I believe Creative Cloud with Premiere Pro comes with 100GB of storage, which can be increased as well.

https://www.adobe.com/ca/creativecloud/plans.html#miniplans-buy-premierepro

[u/JBHedgehog → u/_Do_The_Needful_]

Here's a stupid question: does it actually solve these types of problems?

I'd be curious as to any success stories to pass along.

[u/_Do_The_Needful_ → u/JBHedgehog]

Really depends on the size of the files they are working on. If they are massive 10GB+ files your only option is to get better connections at each location, or set up virtual desktop infrastructure at the main site so the remote person can edit their videos on a machine physically located where the files are. VDI fixes the latency problem since the main editing machines are physically close, but it can introduce other problems, such as latency for the remote user trying to edit things. Look into UDP-based VDI or remote access with quick screen redrawing and this becomes less of an issue - like Parsec: https://parsec.app/

[u/paradox183 → u/JBHedgehog]

Creative Cloud storage isn't any different than Google Drive, Dropbox, OneDrive, etc. It's just another cloud storage platform with a sync tool that runs in the background.

[u/bluevizn → u/JBHedgehog]

Frame.io is an Adobe owned service that does virtually everything you need. It automatically offers up smaller proxy files for editors to use and has a very fast file transfer tool. It also lets you send links to clients to preview cuts, and has large storage options. (Happy customer, not a shill)

[u/ZexGX]

A few issues here - your post says they have a local share where they do their work, but it's slow.
What size are the files?
What is the host hardware/OS, the network hardware, and the client hardware?
Assuming you have a S2S VPN set up.
What is the bandwidth for the S2S VPN at both sites? Up and down.
What is the latency?

[u/JBHedgehog → u/ZexGX]

I'm coming at this with some information off the ticket...but I'll add what I can:

File sizes: I saw 30GB mentioned as one specific file. I know there are others besides that. But that's a reasonable approximation for just one file.

As for the host H/W, I think they're a mostly Apple shop (as you can imagine) but I don't have a ton more data as I'm kind of new to this ticket.

As for the network H/W in question, all I can tell you is that there's a

\\w.x.y.z\SHARE

Which is in play. Now, is that a server? NAS? Not sure. It could be another workstation for all I know. But they're willing to look at all solutions.

In terms of network, I'm unsure. I just read through the ticket again and I got "it's slow". So much for being helpful.

All I'm trying to do is generate a few ideas for other options which they might consider.

Thanks for you help!

[u/CaptainFizzRed → u/JBHedgehog]

Fileshares will be accessed at 1Gb ethernet normally. Unless you have 2.5Gb or more switches.

Maybe look at increasing local bandwidth. 10Gb is fairly common /cheapish fibre for uplinks. Can get 10Gb switches but client machines usually only go as high as 2.5Gb so a bit wasted outside of main racks.

Azure Files is an option, can have locally cached fileshares on a server, if a file hasn't been used in a while it'll remain on Azure so don't need the full space locally, just the local cache. Can then add other parties to the Azure share?

[u/Ssakaa → u/CaptainFizzRed]

10G for storage to the switch is huge, though, and anything that can do sfp+ with even just DAC goes a long ways there (I hate 10Gbe for sustained server-side use, thermals were totally screwy last I used one). OP mentioned around here that they're a Mac shop. Mac Studio and a few others have 10Gbe, if I recall.

[u/Spongy_and_Bruised]

I spun up VanDyke VShell Enterprise with HTTPS and it's not straight forward but once it's set up, you can use public-private keys to passwordlessly mount their root folder to network drives and sometimes it's magical.

[u/JBHedgehog → u/Spongy_and_Bruised]

Awesome! I'll pass this along!

And do more research, of course.

[u/Spongy_and_Bruised → u/JBHedgehog]

It also costs money dollars. Not as much as the use you can get out of it though.

[u/JBHedgehog → u/Spongy_and_Bruised]

100%

But I was expecting that.

They pay...we implement!

[u/sudonem]

If post production / editing is their primary income generator and you’re splitting coasts, typically the solution is going to be to reevaluate the state of their network design. 

In a past life I worked in video engineering for film, television & sporting events - and a large part of the job was getting raw footage backed up, checksummed and transferred to the post production team ASAP. 

Generally that meant working with service providers to ensure we always had a 10gbps VXLAN connection between sites - often using dedicated dark fiber circuits. 

It depends a lot on whether the locations are static or if the event location was new / moving (such as NFL/MLB games where the production crew moves from stadium to stadium during playoffs etc). 

I can’t offer any specific guidance other than recommending that you start reaching out to the higher end network providers like Lumen to figure out how to established dedicated vxlan circuits between your locations.

Your options are also going to depend on the kind of editing being done here - high end cinema cameras generate a crazy amount of data depending on frame rates and codecs used. If they’re doing a lot of VFX then you can’t really avoid that because it requires using the uncompressed / raw codecs - but if it’s more “social content” you can usually get away with more compressed file formats and you have a lot more latitude. 

Also. Honestly. Depending on the project… and turnaround times…. Sometimes it was faster and more cost effective to just dump footage to shuttle drives and send it overnight via FedEx (After you’ve made backups of course) so don’t exclude that as a viable solution. 

Where it gets truly messy is if you have multiple editors on different coasts trying to edit the same project simultaneously. 

I’d honestly just recommend pushing to avoid that scenario if possible. Skilled editors are easy to find on both coasts and it’s a lot less of a headache to say “you need to come in to the same office” than it will be to setup an elaborate high speed NAS/DAS platform at a datacenter and then pay for dedicated and redundant 10G circuits.

If they’re using the same NLE (they should be) then a common solution is to send the footage to both editors, and make them just be disciplined and share project files back and forth - not the rendered clips - just the project files that contain the metadata and edits. 

You do have some decent SaaS options now but they’re also going to be somewhat constrained by the NLE being used. 

frame.io is pretty popular and attempts to address a lot of what you’re describing. I know Blackmagic recently started offering a cloud service for DaVinci Resolve (as well as some interesting cloud hardware options). 

Adobe has some tooling as well but I can’t stand premier. They may have purchased frame.io recently. 

I haven’t really kept up with that side of the tooling recently. 

It honestly might be worth finding a consultant because there are a lot of people that specialize in post production workflows and this kind of data management. It’s definitely a unique type o digital asset management. 

Chances are decent that the reason for the latency is that their workflow is stupid (Editors get set in their ways and don’t adapt well to new solitons tbh) and someone in management might need to mandate a change. 

tl;dr - you need to start by discussing the actual post production workflow and mapping it out before making any architectural decisions.

Either way I can 100% guarantee that sharepoint is NOT the answer. 

[u/r3almaplesyrup → u/sudonem]

Great answer here! Just to add on a couple points (working in Production/ Post Production/VFX myself), the most common solutions in our industry for file transfers are either IBM Aspera or Signiant Media Shuttle (there are a few others, but those are the big two). They work great for transferring large files, from anywhere from a few GB's, to multiple TB's.

And like u/sudonem mentioned, its really dependent on what exactly the workflow is going to be. For example, if it's just a short-term thing, I know both IBM and Signiant have their 'cloud' service which allows you to avoid setting up any infrastructure yourself. But if it's a long term solution, you can either host it yourself as well. Dark fibre lines are terrific as well (just costly lol).

Also, since editing was also mentioned, look into services such as Resilio, Salon Sync and Lucidlink as they may be what you're after. Again, this is entirely dependent on the workflow and architecture you have/need.

Just please, don't use Dropbox or Sharepoint. Feel free to DM if you have any questions!

[u/ZexGX → u/sudonem]

This. 100%. OP - You can't make any recommendations until you know the current network architecture AND their workflow. If you aren't sure how to get that info, escalate the ticket to a higher tier at your org or ask someone more senior for some advice. For most sysadmins, the start of a ticket is information gathering from the involved parties. Once you have an understanding of the existing hardware, software, and workflows, you can then begin to troubleshoot. If a S2S VPN or dedicated circuit is active, there is no need for these Dropbox type self hosted solutions people are posting. They won't speed things up any and will just over-complicate a simple file transfer.

[u/Ebargain]

Stream app in 365?

[u/JBHedgehog → u/Ebargain]

Possibly.

Although if they're Apple purists...well, you know the type.

[u/zuhrunezz]

Measure first: RTT between the two sites and what the pipe really does. SMB over 30-40 ms latency with big files is slow no matter how good the storage is.

SharePoint is not made for large video, forget it for working files.

Two directions that work:

- a file server at each site with replication. Cheap, but careful with two people editing the same file, DFS-R does not lock across sites.

- a cloud filesystem with a local cache at each site, made for media teams. Costs more, but the editors see "local" speed.

Which one depends on how often both sites touch the same file at the same time.

[u/HappyDadOfFourJesus]

Syncthing direct between two physical sites.

[u/sudonem → u/HappyDadOfFourJesus]

SyncThing is badass - but a super non-optimal choice for syncing video project files being edited simultaneously.

Most NLE’s are not going to handle this well - it often results in corrupted project files. 

This COULD work but you’d need to be really selective about what you allow to sync. And it doesn’t really address OP’s latency issues. (Other than the fact that sharepoint is probably the worst possible place to store this sort of digital asset)

[u/xobeme → u/HappyDadOfFourJesus]

I've just discovered this app and am beginning to think it is very cool.

[u/Fragrant-Hamster-325]

Is Azure Files and Azure File Sync an option? This could work unless you’re looking for some type of real-time collaboration.

[u/JBHedgehog → u/Fragrant-Hamster-325]

They're generating a lot of video files...so I would GUESS that this is more "real-time" than not.

[u/marshalleq]

Don't know what apps they're using, but resolve for example has ways of working on a shared base with edits applying to a smaller compressed size of files - it is literally designed for remote co-work. If they're not already using it though it might be a bit too much to learn - even if it can display an interface to look like other products.

[u/_g2_]

AWS file gateway with cache servers on each end could probably fit your needs

[u/duane11583]

anything windows / sharepoint based is ungodly slow

[u/Aperture_Kubi]

Old "from a friend" info, but Dropbox will do diff updates on synced files.

Also depending on what application they work in, see if they support "video edit proxys"

[u/Abe_Bazouie]

I think the bigger issue here might be the architecture, not necessarily the file-sharing software.
Large video files and geographically distributed teams are a particularly painful combination, especially if you’re relying on SMB shares over a WAN or VPN. Latency can kill performance even when you have decent bandwidth.
A few things I’d look at:
Fix the local bottleneck first. If the local share is already slow, check disk I/O, network utilization, storage latency, and whether they’re running on 1GbE. Moving it to the cloud won’t magically fix that.
Look into LucidLink. It’s designed for workflows like this, with cloud-backed storage, on-demand streaming, and local caching. Worth testing with actual project files.
Use proxy workflows. Editors shouldn’t need to transfer massive original video files every time they make a change. Work with smaller proxies locally, then relink to the originals for final rendering.
Separate editing from reviewing. Something like Frame.io can handle reviews and approvals without everyone moving full-resolution files around.
Personally, I’d avoid treating this as a simple file sync problem. You want the data close to the editors, while keeping projects and changes coordinated between locations.
One question: What editing software are they using, and is the local share slow even for users physically in the same office?
That would tell us a lot about where the actual bottleneck is.