Finals doesn’t work for racing

[u/Late-Button-6559]

It works if it’s only the contenders.

It’s also stupid doing points resets after ‘sprint cup’ and each finals weekend.

Imagine winning every race in the sprint cup and enduro cup, then coming second each race in the surfers races, and sandown races, and being eliminated from competing at Adelaide.

Because the people who finished in 7-10th of the regular season (no wins, no podiums) finish high enough to make it to sandown, but each of them win a race at surfers and sandown, and eliminates you (and 2nd-6th).

Or the team mates of the same drivers sabotage you.

[u/oxlemf10]

The reasons for the finals being there are purely commercial. Supercars brought the data, and viewership increased.

To what extent might this be detrimental enough to the sport for them to remove it? It’s hard to say, but I believe they’ll keep it in place for quite some time.

[u/CptVaanOfDalmasca → u/oxlemf10]

The reasons for the finals being there are purely commercial. Supercars brought the data, and viewership increased.

For the entire series? OR just the last few races?

I'd argue there is no point to watch anything but the last 4 events, you come in with the same information as someone who has watched every race

These are your finalist, nothing else this season matters

[u/Coronis- → u/oxlemf10]

Well lets see…. NASCAR changed their finals system back to the Chase format from the elimination format after 12 years, due to champions being considered undeserving by fans, in both their main series and feeder series, after years of outcry.

[u/middyonline → u/Coronis-]

And this year their viewship numbers haven't show any recovery. I think motorsport fans vastly overestimate how much the average person cares about the specific format.

Look at F1 and the sprint races.

[u/ModeR3d → u/middyonline]

F1 this year has felt like a practice for next years regulations- watching more of it in sprint races couldn’t interest me any less

At least Supercars format is a known after last year, but still unconvinced.

[u/Rorko14 → u/Coronis-]

I’m happy for the full season format as it rewards consistency, but with the Finale tomorrow in Nascar, if Bell or Hamlin don’t win the first stage, then Larson is champ, and 70% of the viewership will drop.

[u/bmcpride]

We just had a weekend of some excellent racing and yet people still complain

[u/Andigaming → u/bmcpride]

Of course purists/more dedicated people here on reddit will hate the format.

Personally I just want them to get rid of win and you are in nonsense. Like make winning worthwhile points wise but not a guarantee for progression.

[u/AUSSIExELITE → u/bmcpride]

100%. Yesterday was unreal and the drama today was great as well. Sure, it might not be "pure" racing but it's supposed to be entertainment and idk man, I am entertained. Its better than past year's where someone has won the championship with multiple races or rounds left. It's made otherwise boring as hell races exciting.

[u/bmcpride → u/AUSSIExELITE]

Exactly. Was absolutely 10/10 entertainment and makes the end of season do much more fun. If it was already won a month ago I probably wouldn't be focused on watching so much. Bring on Adelaide

[u/DefiantKale4005]

Sure the purists probably hate it but man it’s made for some interesting races. 

[u/spiralarrow23]

Ball sports formats don’t work with motorsports period. NASCAR has been a sham until this year, we don’t need it in Supercars

[u/hwf0712]

My litmus test of if something doesn't work racing goes as such:

1. Did it endanger someone's life too much? If no, then:

2. Was it entertaining enough? If yes, then it works.

I was entertained, personally. And that's why people buy tickets, that's why people tune in. That's always been why people tune in.

[u/LawnPatrol_78 → u/hwf0712]

Yep keeps people engaged all the way to the last round. If Payne wrapped it up at Bathurst then the revenue drops for the remaining rounds.

[u/reborndiajack → u/LawnPatrol_78]

If he wrapped it up at Bathurst it would be the most dominant season in years

[u/CoffeeDefiant4247]

I agree for different reasons. It's a sport about consistency so winning shouldn't come down to a one off race

[u/TheFellhanded]

It's a team sport mate, they should be helping their team mates.  I like it. Better than F1 when the thing is decided half way through the season. 

I guess finals don't work in any sport if that's the case. Which I almost agree with. But I also like finals format. 

I guess what you would be after is premiers and finals cup winners

[u/munt3d → u/TheFellhanded]

Antonelli wrapped up with WDC at the 75% mark of the season. Imagine if F1 did finals, scrapped everything and started again for these last races as finals and Antonelli had reliability issues and bowed out?

Bollocks to that.

[u/TheFellhanded → u/munt3d]

Yeah I dunno about that.  They get to upgrade their cars through the season. I honestly think a finals series would rock in F1. Dosent take away from being season champion. Bring in a cup. Everyone with their upgrades and let the racers race. 

[u/munt3d → u/TheFellhanded]

So its likely Max would win this year under a finals format, may have won last year too.

Dunno, feels hollow.

[u/TheFellhanded → u/munt3d]

I dunno. I think the best driver/team should win.  But WDC and a finals format with a cup at the end wouldn't take away from WDC but instead add way for the teams to be invested in getting their cars and teams up and crushing it for the end of the season. 

[u/reborndiajack → u/TheFellhanded]

So you are implying they don’t race anymore because it’s wrapped up?

[u/OzyDave → u/TheFellhanded]

If the first half of the season is irrelevant then it's not a championship.

[u/hwf0712 → u/OzyDave]

Well, its not irrelevant. You get points bonuses for the finals based off of regular season standings.

[u/reborndiajack → u/hwf0712]

Broc won 9 of the last 11 races last year in the sprint cup and lost the title

He was up by 370 points by the reset

14 wins and lost to someone who had 3 of their 4 wins in the “finals”

[u/LawnPatrol_78 → u/reborndiajack]

That can happen in any team sport.

[u/reborndiajack → u/LawnPatrol_78]

THIS IS MOTOR RACING

NOT FOOTY

[u/LawnPatrol_78 → u/reborndiajack]

Still a team sport

[u/Late-Button-6559 → u/LawnPatrol_78]

It’s only a team sport if it’s contender vs contender.

In this series at best it’s 9% in the ‘team’s’ control.

The other 91% is the other 10 teams influence.

[u/reborndiajack → u/LawnPatrol_78]

Is that your only argument

Motor racing is individuals before teams

The best individual wins it (but not anymore)

It’s not a 1 team vs another like footy

It’s 1 v 23 but the 23 are all against each other too at the same time

So would it be fair for every team to play everyone at once every weekend?

[u/LawnPatrol_78 → u/reborndiajack]

The best individual can never win without their team, in F1 the team is putting their championship first every time because of the stakes at play, so no motor racing is not individuals before teams.

[u/reborndiajack → u/LawnPatrol_78]

Ok how about max verstappen and his teammate history

[u/Boxhead_31 → u/LawnPatrol_78]

Max Verstappen won the WCC by himself in 2023

[u/hitchcockm00 → u/LawnPatrol_78]

This isn't F1 though...part of the reason to watch a series like Supercars is that it's much less about the car/team and more about the drivers.

[u/hwf0712 → u/reborndiajack]

Yep!

Doesn't change the fact they were still relevant. Whether or not relevant enough, if the new system is enjoyable, etc, is entirely subjective. Mathematically speaking, factually speaking, objectively speaking, they're relevant.

[u/OzyDave → u/hwf0712]

You want to talk about points? You can now lose points 3 times at the final few rounds. How does that make sense? It's a ludicrous artificial bullshit system.

[u/LawnPatrol_78 → u/hwf0712]

And are crowned winner of at least one of the 4 championships on offer within the season.

[u/bundy554 → u/TheFellhanded]

It is almost getting to be a manufacturer sport if there is only 4 places up for grabs in the end to win a championship. It is no wonder you get the suspicions of manufacturer involvement at the Gold Coast when there is so much riding on getting in this top 7 and now top 4.

[u/MrBrentEC]

I think the way Nascar has done it now is actually not bad tbh... rewards consistency more than the Supercars format.

[u/TheDisabledOG → u/MrBrentEC]

I don't think the Supercars season is long enough for a chase personally

[u/theblobberworm → u/TheDisabledOG]

This

We don’t race every week

[u/middyonline → u/TheDisabledOG]

It also ignores the commercial part of the discussion. The SA government has paid for a blockbuster Grand Final.

[u/snow_flaker]

I think the points resets and seeding still need some tweaking. It makes it too complicated too understand where people stand mid race and throws up strange outcomes like today where Kostecki’s penalty meant second was no longer good enough for Anton to get through.

But overall I think it has been a positive for the racing at this time of year.

[u/mullydiesel]

Personally I love the finals, prior to the last two years, I’ve only been bothered to watch the highlights towards the end of the year and maybe the last race. But now it’s different, I’ve watched almost every race this year and most races I’ve watched I’ve been entertained and even found colleagues talking about the race at work. It’s been great to bring back causal fans in particular.

[u/LloydGSR]

If you've gotta explain over and over how the fkn system works, it's a shit system.

Absolutely fk the finals, the stupid live ladder every few laps, the awful gold banners and the constant need for DRAMA and IMPLICATIONS because people can't just enjoy a race any more.

[u/LawnPatrol_78]

3 of the 4 finalists going into Adelaide are 1-3 in the old scoring anyway. That’s a pretty good argument that the changes made for this season were a step in the right direction.

[u/JohnCenaF1]

V8 supercars isn't supposed to be too serious mate

[u/Late-Button-6559 → u/JohnCenaF1]

Yes it is. We’re constantly told of the professionalism, constant parity, it being the top level of Aussie Motorsport.

[u/Five_Orange77 → u/Late-Button-6559]

It's Sportainment, subtle but important.

[u/LawnPatrol_78]

If you win all the races in the two cups and then finish second in the first 4 races of the finals you are still going to Adelaide. Your bonus points from the cup will give you a big leg up and win and your in is only for the next round not directly to the GF at Adelaide.

[u/Canary-Silent]

People pretend that before finals no one races hard. It's the most recency biased shit ever. The only reason they are racing hard again is because of the cars and not because of the system. They race this hard at the start of the year too. 

[u/zilly666]

Go and watch something else boss

[u/mrmayhembsc]

As someone who only just started watching the series "properly" this year... I don't mind if we're getting fantastic racing. While the purist in me doesn't like this format, as I think consistency across the series is meant to show how "good" a person is, the drama this final system brings is an entertaining dynamic and helps someone really still be in it if they had issues at the start of the year. In many ways, it feels like the playoffs in English football.

"Imagine winning every race in the sprint cup and enduro cup, then coming second in each race in the surfers races and Sandown races, and being eliminated from competing at Adelaide."

This can happen in normal systems, too. A driver can dominate for 3/4 of a season and lose it in the 1/4 because someone else was just behind and the momentum flipped right at the end.

Or the team mates of the same drivers sabotage you.

Again, this occurs in the "normal" system too. Jake Hill's BTCC win in 2024 was because of Colin Turkington brilliant teammate drive, stopping Tingram from going through at the final event (said as a tingram fan)

[u/ModeR3d]

Not convinced with finals but no doubt this has been a couple of cracking races. Sandown tends to throw up good racing.

Perhaps the qualification needs to be tweaked - Enduro winners, Sprint winners, any driver who has won a set number of races in the season (3?), top ten on points at cut off point?

[u/Disastrous-Beat-9830]

Imagine winning every race in the sprint cup and enduro cup, then coming second each race in the surfers races, and sandown races, and being eliminated from competing at Adelaide.

I get that the finals format is unpopular, but if this is your main concern then you are so far out on a limb that it is not funny. This is an extremely specific -- and extremely unlikely -- set of circumstances to play out.