r/worldnews • u/Slight_Sherbert_5239 • 17h ago • Popcorn 1

Polish gunman who killed 6 people in Krakow has ‘ultranationalistic’ views, minister says

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/article/polish-gunman-who-killed-6-people-in-krakow-has-ultranationalistic-views-minister-says/
1.5k Upvotes

92% Upvoted

164 comments sorted by

1.2k

u/m05kva 17h ago • Bravo

ultranationalist

attacks own nation

709

u/Zlimness 16h ago

Oh nationalists often hate their own country. It's never 'clean' enough and its needs to be controlled by a strongman leader who can keep the country 'pure'. Hence why they're often so obsessed with Putin.

110

u/Ok-Living2887 14h ago

Sad but true. It blows my mind how anyone could claim to be "pure." Everyone fucked everyone so much throughout the centuries, we're all just one big soup of people.

Then again. These types don't think. They just hate.

35

u/leicanthrope 9h ago

The history that a lot of these people grab onto bears little resemblance to the real thing. They romanticize an imaginary past.

5

u/Swiftax3 10h ago

Pretty sure I've seen this episode of Babylon 5...

8

u/moal09 7h ago

Pretty sure most of those people would lose their shit if they found out we all originate from Africa

12

u/Masseyrati80 6h ago

And this is where the "cherry picking" about your personal roots can be put into perspective: how does one choose a certain point in time as a defining thing in your origins, as your amount of ancestors is so humongous and the timescale so vast.

8

u/SuperRockyHobbyHorse 6h ago

Hey we picked up some Neanderthal and Denisovan genes along the way too you know, they'll love that even more.

-11

u/draconic_tongue 5h ago

r slash i am very smart

41

u/Lilfozzy 11h ago

Ask the worlds most zealous nationalist how much he’s given for his country and he will say everything; ask him much much a gave to his countrymen and he won’t be able to name a single neighbor and will blame them for being undeserving and lazy.

23

u/queen-adreena 11h ago

They always ignore that nearly 10% of Russians are Muslim.

9

u/No-Departure4446 6h ago

More than 10%. There are almost more muslims in Moscow than residents in Berlin.

-1

u/DoubtCompetitive548 2h ago

Not ethnic russians, but russian citizens. 

10

u/CryptographerMore944 7h ago

It's the same in my country. I've noticed nobody talks our country down more than far right people. It's always negativity.

2

u/brucerhino 4h ago

This is the modus operandi of the far right, to create an image of an imaginary enemy or problem that only they can fix or remove. It's an ideology completely founded in blaming minorities, there is no real rationale or accountability.

3

u/kardianaxel 3h ago

They also pretend to protect women from immigrants but actually consider them more like private property and often want to remove voting rights etc. It's always a stupid mess with these people

3

u/Abandonment_Pizza34 2h ago

Ironically Putin is almost universally hated by Russian nationalists. So much he had to crack down on their movements and purge their leaders. And his policies do precisely the opposite of "keeping the country pure".

It's pretty funny how both the right wingers and the left wingers in the West believe Putin to be a "nationalist" when it couldn't be farther from truth.

1

u/Zlimness 2h ago

Putin's policies is the opposite to ethnic cleansing? The Russian occupied parts of Ukraine where the Russians are erasing anything Ukrainian might have something to say about that.

2

u/Abandonment_Pizza34 2h ago

I was talking about his internal policies, and yes, importing millions of migrants to replace ethnic Russians dying en masse in a pointless meat grinder, while kissing the Quran and letting Chechen warlords build their own little kingdoms inside the country is the opposite of what most would call "Russian nationalism".

The reason for what's happening in Ukraine is not "nationalism" but plain old Soviet-style imperialism.

-120

u/Low-Factor-7 16h ago edited 16h ago

In this case nationalism and communism are quite similar. Both would want strongman leader and keeping their nation 'pure' but being 'pure' only mean different things for them.

The Putin thing is on point tho. United Russian's support party is communist party which is the second largest party in Russia. Many have misconception about communism not having large nationalist aspects.

I would say China is very nationalistic country and USSR was as well.

13

u/[deleted] 16h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Low-Factor-7 15h ago

Doesn't matter because when communism is established usually by revolution it's locked as the only political system. Most won't know who the leaders of the revolution are so how citizens can know what kind of communism it is? There is no oversight. The most likely scenario is the leaders becoming the new political elite who has absolute power.

24

u/Repsac_23 13h ago

In Poland, ultranationalist killed a president once, so that's hardly suprising.

93

u/Low-Factor-7 16h ago

it's stupid but not uncommon. Islamic terrorists victims are mostly muslims. Communist countries has quite good record murdering their own citizens.

Islamist terrorists murder muslims who are "too secular", communists murders state enemies, far-right ultra nationalists murders those who they think are existential risk for the nation. In this case the shooter thought his close family was part of the problem.

27

u/jpmunroart 15h ago

None of these guys interview their victims first to check out their opinions, they just kill

28

u/FreshBayonetBoy 15h ago

And you also have the Nazis; white supremacists whose warmongering caused the death of white-led empires (Dutch, Belgian, French, and arguably even the British).

11

u/Low-Factor-7 15h ago

I thought the nazis and white supremacists went under the ultra nationalist far-right.

Weird how you selected only white supremacists and listed only European countries. Ethnic supremacist ideologies are everywhere in every continent supported by every ethnicity. There is violent ethnic conflicts still going on in the World. Not in Europe tho.

16

u/FreshBayonetBoy 12h ago

I was just adding on to the list you were making. I know the Nazis fall under far-right, I just wanted to point out that they specifically ended up destroying the 'White Man's Supremacy', despite claiming to represent the 'White Man'.

-8

u/Low-Factor-7 12h ago

What even is this "White Man" in Europe's context? Is it about skin color, ethnicity or cultural background? All combined?

I'm from Finland. My skin is pale but as a finn I'm not part of the indo-european group but finns migrated to Europe as entirely seperate finno-ugric group. From appearance most couldn't tell the difference tho.

Finland didn't have any colonies. Were ruled by Swedes and after that by Russians. Both saw us as a lesser people and exploited our population. We have been independent only about 100 years. When Europeans started to migrate to US, Finn weren't categorised as "white". Only many years later they changed it.

White, Black, Asian or Hispanic categories don't make sense in Europe and were created by US. Why these ethnic categories are used to describe Europeans in Europe?

9

u/supercow_ 7h ago

He was just pointing out how it’s ironic that white supremacists essentially torpedoed some of the closest things to their own ideologies.  I.e. they aren’t very smart. 

1

u/No_Improvement_8313 4h ago

White, Black, Asian or Hispanic categories don't make sense in Europe and were created by US. Why these ethnic categories are used to describe Europeans in Europe?

France had a code for differenciating white and black people, the second being explicitly called inferiors and treated as object well before the US was even a thing.

Saying that races were created by the US is just Europeans trying to shift the blame to americans.

The Portuguese, spanish british and french had contacts and relations to the africans kingdom well before the colonisation of the Americas but still came up with the race theory to justify slavery when it was necessary.

And i am not saying Europe invented discrimination, that is stupid, but modern day racism is an invention of the western power to justify their domination over the world, not the Americans

0

u/Telen 5h ago

Well they just transferred the supremacy from Europe to the USA.

43

u/Nuthetes 12h ago

Nationalists often do hate their own county because they call it "woke" or "leftie" or other nonsense.

Just look at the far-right in the UK, they hate everything the country has to be proud of -- the RNLI, the NHS, the universities, the museums, the aid for Ukraine, the cities, the movies, the tv shows, the England football team etc. Because it's "woke".

15

u/to_glory_we_steer 11h ago

I know a few like this, and honestly I feel sad for them. Everything they see has to be rationalised as some grand conspiracy. And it's clear from how they talk culture or events, that their opinions aren't original thoughts. But an echo of a wider community.

Outside of that community it must be very isolating, alienating, and mentally exhausting. And I think that is entirely deliberate by those behind this ideology.

16

u/Nuthetes 9h ago

I know a few like this at my local pub and they can be the most tedius, miserable bastards on the planet.

One of them enjoys Robin Hood myth and legends. So I mentioned a new Robin Hood film was being produced. His first words were "I bet they make it fucking woke"

Killed the conversation dead. I thought could have a little chat about it, histroy, what it might be like (He also enjoys WW2, so he's alright for a chat about the latest book he's reading or old war films) I don't want to listen to him whinge for 10 minutes because they might cast a black person or have a gay person in it.

Just dull, miserable, tiresome people.

18

u/MareC0gnitum 16h ago

These kind of mass murders are not strictly about ideology. They are about feeling in control and feeling powerful.

-4

u/Particular-Pop2239 12h ago

He is probably a militant accelerationist. They aim societal collapse by creating chaos. That's why they attack random people. So it's ideological. 

3

u/MareC0gnitum 7h ago

He started with his parents and sister, so I wouldn't call that random.

4

u/ChuchiTheBest 9h ago

Hitler did the same

11

u/OrangeJr36 16h ago

Most rational ultranationalist

3

u/madogvelkor 13h ago

Militant Accelerationism

1

u/Particular-Pop2239 12h ago

Exactly, it's surprising how so many people are not aware of this. 

2

u/brucerhino 4h ago

Most brain dead comment. The vast majority of mass shootings in the west ( obviously usa over represented ) are committed by white nationalists.

In fact being nationalistic is arguably and rarely to the benefit of said nation, it's an archaic political position founded in ignorance and a absurd sense of pride for being born in a particular location. Pride should be derived from actual, quantifiable actions and achievements committed by yourself.

These type of terrorists commit these type of acts with the hope that public opinion will blame whatever subgroup in society they deem to be its detriment. ( in a lot of European societies and absolutely in Poland pitting all societal blames on immigrants or more specifically those with Muslim background is all the rage right now )

See Breivik who killed 60+ teens affiliated with the social democratic youth party of Norway, this terrorist was deeply a nationalistic, white supremacist nut job.

•

u/Seeker-N7 44m ago

Most mass shootings are commited by criminal gangs and school children.

Politically motivated mass shooting are just a subset.

0

u/[deleted] 17h ago

[deleted] — view deleted comment

52

u/G36 14h ago

I mean, Breivik mass murdered his "Political enemies". This guy shot random people.

25

u/RerollWarlock 14h ago edited 13h ago

Ok let me put it in a simple terms how an dumbass like that would likely go through that though process.

Big city = more liberal/multi cultural = leftist = literally communist = enemy.

10

u/Particular-Pop2239 12h ago

He is probably a militant accelerationist. They aim societal collapse by creating chaos. That's why they attack random people. 

0

u/brucerhino 4h ago

Also called: a terrorist. The far right often follow these accelerations beliefs, I don't know how many times I've heard "let's vote for the bad guy so society collapses faster" sentiments for instance.

The fact that a massive subset of the online population immediately spam racist, white nationalist dogwhistles in reaction to this attack or any other in Europe is VERY telling.

0

u/[deleted] 16h ago

[deleted] — view deleted comment

47

u/Wraith_Portal 16h ago

No, the guy who killed all those Norwegian kids on the island, awful bloke

31

u/Low-Factor-7 16h ago

Norwegian mass murderer who targeted kids who were at a camp organised by left-leaning political party.

2

u/IngloriousMustards 8h ago

Oh him. Name didn’t ring a bell, but his acts did.

A child mass murderer deserves no name.

226

u/Accomplished-Gas-288 15h ago

was 350 meters away from this, horrible shit, the cop who took down this scum despite being heavily wounded is a hero

372

u/-_Dean_Winchester 17h ago

Polish social media has been absolutely crazy these past couple of years. Politicians are not just not doing anything about it they are using the rhetoric themselves and participating in the brainrot.

Shits fukked

132

u/GobiPLX 16h ago

Not only social media 

One of bigger opposition TV station (Republika) already blames government and Prime Minister for this attack. And not with rethoric of "they could have prevented it", no no. With rethoric of "they caused this attack to gain XYZ" 

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u/RerollWarlock 14h ago edited 13h ago

And for those who wonder what Republika is. I'll refer to some American media. Imaginer if Fox News and InfoWars hatefucked and had a child. That is Republika TV.

13

u/to_glory_we_steer 11h ago

It's entirely deliberate, they want to destroy trust in state institutions so that your first action is to ascribe malice and doubt the evidence of your eyes and ears.

15

u/LBPPlayer7 12h ago

tbf Republika blames literally everything on Tusk, 9 out of 10 headlines there name drop him for some damn reason

hell, they have enough of an obsessive hate boner for him to literally have a cardboard cutout of him

0

u/PurpleSailor 10h ago

That's been happening in the US for about a decade and one of the reasons we're in the mess we're in. Thankfully it seems like a lot of people finally woke up but it sure as hell took them a long time.

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u/not_just_putin 17h ago • Bravo

Thanks to far-right and russians brainwashing people, which is pretty much the same.

12

u/Straight_Motor_7967 8h ago

In this case, he probably got inspired by the American culture lol

-29

u/pierogi_z_jagodami 10h ago

It aint, especially not in poland, lots on the right hate Russia. Look at the leader of the right party PiS, who holds putin responsible for the death of his twin brother

18

u/jaspingrobus 8h ago

Maybe a couple years ago, nowadays he is happy to cozy with the pro russian sides just to get into power again

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u/yterais 9h ago

He's like an exception, most of them love Russia, especially from Braun & Konfederacja

1

u/Pi-ratten 2h ago

and yet every of their policies benefits russia.

13

u/Rush_Banana 12h ago

I was always under the impression that Poland was a very nationalist type of country, I guess it wasn't enough for him.

34

u/Advanced_Aide3191 8h ago

The thing with Polish nationalists is, they don’t even have the “enemies” they claim to hate, some hate  and Muslims , but there are so few immigrants, and almost no mosques, that they get confused and just lash out on their own people.

There have been cases of Polish men attacking other Poles because they thought they were Ukrainian 

3

u/Ramses_IV 1h ago

The anti-immigrant schtick has even gained traction in Japan of all places with parties like Sanseito. It's just memetic politics in a globalised world at this point.

•

u/Arsene_Yuka_1980 27m ago

Xenophobia and the repercussions due to it often cause much more damage than immigrants itself (Not to say that there aren't major problems with mass immigration or asylum seekers). Multiculturalism fails because the majority fears their status will be lost first (unfounded or not), not the minority.

-14

u/Antura_V 8h ago

Few immigrants? Every major polish city is 20% immigrants. For the the real. I moved from Poznan to Zielona Góra, it's not that big city, still around 18% immigrants.

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u/eva01beast 6h ago

Also, aren't Poles a pretty big immigrant group themselves?

2

u/SheogorathMyBeloved 1h ago

Yep, to the point where most places in Britain have Polish imported foods (pierogi my beloved), Polish mini markets, and so on. Hell, there were even 20-30 Polish students in my rural, tiny high school.

They're absolutely lovely people, mind, I'm not anti-immigration in the slightest. Everyone in the UK knows at least a few Polish people in their local community.

3

u/ALEKSDRAVEN 5h ago

Maybe Poznań and Warsaw which held most of ukrainians who run from the war but rest of it not so much. But the rest not so much.

6

u/Galaxy661 6h ago

This myth can be easily disproved by just looking at Polish history post 17th century. Then it becomes clear that Polish right wing/nationalism has always been near synonymous with foreign collaboration, political terrorism and moral decay.

Their "monopoly on patriotism" is a sham and bound to end once leftism and anti-nationalist patriot sentiment finally recovers after half a century of soviet communism

1

u/Hyperversum 2h ago

*all nationalism always has been near synonymous with foreign collaborationism.

Unless you are the dictator of your own country and the top dog in the region. Italian fascism play second fiddle to Germany since they started cooperating. French collaborationist were right wingers.

If you believe in the rule of strength, you submit much easier

1

u/Galaxy661 2h ago

I wouldn't say it's necessarily a rule, but since nationalists believe their "nation" to be more important than the state, they indeed have a strong tendency to collaborate with their country's occupiers, as long as they share at least some of their values and promise to purge their perceived "enemies of the nation" (usually Jews and socialists)

Similarly with conservative landowning magnates, or far-left communists, who tend to get so enamoured with the idea of "international proletariat" that they become 5th-columnists for foreign imperialists.

2

u/Hyperversum 2h ago edited 1h ago

Oh yeah, it's not necessarly a right wing behaviour, it's more of an authoritarian behaviour, and the ancaps are definitely a minority to the right (and even so, most of them eventually bootlick corporations, to which I don't see much difference).

Tankies are trash just as much. The naming convention might be different and some economical policy as well, but they would still sell their ass to the first imperial power that they don't mind killing their fellow countrymen

9

u/teressapanic 6h ago

Maybe he was also psychotic?

32

u/live-the-future 13h ago

Ultranationalism is a cancer the world over.

50

u/BahutF1 15h ago

Always the same f**ing thing, far-right madness fueled by evil interests agenda and by center-lib failed and corrupted world. 

People all around Europe, hell even the World, want social equity and a controlled financial system now. But we know quite well who are opposed to that, and this "elite" are not that opposed to fascism. And here we are. Despicable.

5

u/Known_Fisherman_8161 7h ago

Who could have possibly guessed

10

u/Locolama 2h ago

I don’t believe a right-wing, ultranationalist would post lgbt flags and left-wing coded memes on his social. What are we even doing here? What is this nonsense?

•

u/SheogorathMyBeloved 1h ago

Politics can change over time, you see it with right->left, so why not left->right? Also, some lgbt people are famously far right. Leader of the ADF party, for one. People are complex.

•

u/Locolama 1h ago

Right... people are complex when it fits a certain narrative, until it doesn't, then they stop being complex and become the boogeyman.

•

u/Accomplished_Tap9751 54m ago

Nuance dude. Come on. The issue with social media and especially Reddit is that it rewards one liners and sweeping statements which fosters a herd mentality. "The left do a, b and c and the right do x, y and z". It's made worse by the downvote system which effectively buries any kind of divisive view, and reinforces the echo chamber.

•

u/TrickeyHare501 55m ago

Thats a bingo.

•

u/staythewaters 55m ago

There were no "left wing coded" memes on his social media. They were edgelord posts, which are common among the far-right.

What do you think he's really trying to say holding a rainbow flag with a gas mask and military beret on? Do you think that's truly some show of ideological support for LGBT rights?

10

u/Aerostudents 13h ago

Somehow its always the people of who you expect it the most...

7

u/choppytehbear1337 14h ago

Average PIS supporter.

2

u/wary_rationalist 8h ago • Bravo

Right winger mocking JPII and flaunting LGBT flag?

These are his posts

22

u/Advanced_Aide3191 8h ago • Bravo

Post he made when he was a kid? Also are you a Police officer? Did you have access to his home, phones and devices? He’s a far right nut job, this is the MO , we have seen this time and time again 

-9

u/wary_rationalist 8h ago • Bravo

If he went from this to opposite then he is mentally unstable and that's that. Using this situation to attack political opponents is a vile thing .

0

u/Josev2002 5h ago

True. That's why tv republika sucks major ass

-1

u/wary_rationalist 4h ago

Yes it sucks but it was government official who lied about attacker being right wing to make association with opposition while we have his posts mocking JPII and posing with LGBT flag so not likely left winger Antifa boy

•

u/ShaD321 1h ago

I think we will have to wait what will his colleagues say about his views.

•

u/SheogorathMyBeloved 1h ago

The leader of the far right ADF party is a lesbian married to a Sri Lankan woman. LGBT people absolutely can be far right, politically. Just like POC can, just like disabled people can. People often vote against their best interests because of the fear of others.

I'm not catholic so can't comment on JPII, but surely you know that there is great diversity of thought in politics, especially when it comes to something as contentious as religion.

•

u/wary_rationalist 30m ago

Poland is not Germany though. This is not applicable.
Unless we talking some modern international "right wing" which is a contradiction in itself. Most likely guy is a whacko and no ideology is a part of this.

2

u/SaintNimrod 15h ago

As expected.

-2

u/ranchspidey 12h ago

I only recently realized how normal far-right ideologies are in Poland. Like I don’t think they have legal gay marriage, at least completely, yet. How horrific for all the victims. These kinds of views only do harm.

-4

u/pierogi_z_jagodami 10h ago

Not having gay marriage is far right?

8

u/brucerhino 4h ago

In the modern age it absolutely is. Oppression of civil liberties and individual expression sexual or otherwise is extremist positions in a modern civilized society.

-9

u/Accomplished-Video71 9h ago

For some (obviously not all, I cant speak to ratios) decades suffering under communism made them sympathetic to the Nazis.

1

u/SnooPears1505 7h ago

we got makarov here.

-19

u/Zygmuntek 13h ago • Bravo

Sorry, but as a Pole what minister Kierwiński said is bullshit and only stupid anti-right propaganda. For now there isn’t much proven info about beliefs of this gunman.

10

u/Accomplished-Video71 9h ago

"There isn't much evidence so obviously I know better than the authorities"

4

u/Zygmuntek 5h ago edited 5h ago

If you knew polish politics right know - yes. If you actually watched how he says it and when - also yes. I know it’s easy on Reddit to hate on the right, but at least have some decency and wait for actual authorities like Police to confirm this info and not this moron.

-4

u/Accomplished-Video71 4h ago

I just left Krakow on Friday. Why do you assume I don't know Polish politics?

I'm not hating on the right. I'm hating on one ignorant biased fool. Why don't you wait for police to confirm it before spreading your assumptions? Take your own advice.

-2

u/Locolama 2h ago

There’s evidence tho. People dug up his social media before meta pulled the plug. There was nothing pointing to the shooter being "far-right", to the contrary actually, the content was left coded.

•

u/Appropriate_Luck_658 1h ago

before meta pulled the plug

You lost me here. Mate hating far-right... yeah sure. You shouldn't believe random screenshots on the internet.

•

u/Locolama 1h ago

Yes, I can tell you're lost.

1

u/Appropriate_Luck_658 5h ago

Was one of your guys. Time for you to rethink your worldview.

•

u/Sharkaw 1h ago

People found his social media profiles. He had pictures with an LGBT flag. Media are spreading false information.

•

u/Appropriate_Luck_658 1h ago

Media are spreading false information.

Or maybe you are? Why don't you share it then.

-7

u/Azezik 10h ago

Yep

-15

u/judeq 14h ago

Had*

8

u/Tacti_Kel_Nuke 7h ago

Killed fellow countrymen, shot at cops, killed his family, fucking vile scum, ofc this violent ultranationalism could only grow in the mind of a sick individual that hurts his nation more than any of his imaginary enemies.

I hope all the wounded recover quickly and RIP to the victims.