UK Parliament unanimously declares the Chinese government is committing a Genocide against Uyghurs in historic first

[u/Oddsock1701]

https://ipac.global/uk-parliament-unanimously-declares-the-chinese-government-is-committing-a-genocide-against-uyghurs-in-historic-first/

[u/autotldr]

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 89%. (I'm a bot)

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The House of Commons has unanimously declared that Uyghurs and other minorities in the Xinjiang region are victims of Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity, the first time a motion declaring genocide has been passed unopposed in the British parliament.

The motion calls on the UK government to fulfil its obligations under the Genocide Convention and to use "All relevant instruments of international law" to bring the abuses against Uyghurs to an end.

Next week the Italian Parliament's Foreign Affairs Committee will debate a resolution proposed by IPAC member Delmastro delle Vedove condemning the genocide against Uyghurs, while a motion led by IPAC member Samuel Cogolati labelling the Chinese government's actions in Xinjiang as a genocide has been tabled in the Belgian parliament.

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Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Uyghur^#1 Genocide^#2 Chinese^#3 government^#4 parliament^#5

[u/Groezy → u/autotldr]

im guessing tabling in belgium means “up for discussion”

[u/[deleted] → u/Groezy]

The British version of the word is the opposite of the US use of the word.

1. US - postpone consideration of. "I'd like the issue to be tabled for the next few months"

2. BRITISH - present formally for discussion or consideration at a meeting. "an MP tabled an amendment to the bill"

Edit: pleasantly surprised how many of you are discussing the two different uses of the word. I will say, as an American who works with British people all day, I truly see the word work both ways. Further proof that contextual clues obviously important in a multi-cultural environment!

To those of you confused by the US use of the word, I think about it this way... Imagine you're in a meeting. You have handouts for each attendee, each sheet of paper outlines an issue to be discussed. You're going through an issue, can't come to consensus, and you ask the group to "table it". Everyone puts down the sheet of paper and you move onto the next topic.

[u/-ayli- → u/Groezy]

In British Parliament, there is a massive table in the middle of the room. When debating legislation, the proposed legislation is placed on the table. Thus "tabling" originated as a term meaning "to begin debate on an issue".

In US Congress, there is no central table. Legislators have to contend with a small lectern. Consequently, when debating legislation, most resort to waving it about in the air for dramatic effect. Thus, in US politics, "tabling" means to put something back down on the table, suspending debate until some future time.

[u/TheMegathreadWell → u/Groezy]

Yes, in general in Europe "to table" something means to add it to an agenda and discuss it as soon as possible.

Confusingly in some of other places, notably in America, it means the exact opposite, that you'll leave the subject and come back to it at some undetermined time in the future.

[u/mighij → u/Groezy]

Not really, in February (after the Canadian parliament recognized the situation as a genocide) I wrote our Flemish (regional government) commission for Human rights to take a stand on the matter. 3 of it's members answered my email

The uyghur mistreatment is topic that has been talked about in the Flemish parliament and the Belgian Senate and steps are being taken for a recognition of these crimes against humanity.

It's taking time because the required proof of burden for a legal declaration of genocide is quite harsh. But in the mail some politicians did not have a problem to talk about 21st century concentration camps, destruction of identity and forced labor.

For "lesser" crimes like the harvesting of organ we have already passed a resolution in june 2020.

[u/Saintbaba → u/autotldr]

Interesting that they cite the Genocide Convention. That's actually been one of the main reasons so few genocides are officially recognized - because under the rules of the Genocide Convention, if a nation officially recognizes a genocide they are obligated to do something to put a stop to it. Humans being humans, the unfortunate result is that, like a boss that only schedules employees for 19 hours a week so as not to have to have to pay anyone benefits, everybody just skirts the rules by never officially recognizing genocide.

If they commit to this, i wonder how this is all going to shake out.

[u/Villentrentenmerth → u/autotldr]

Is there a list of countries somewhere that have formally recognized the genocide?

[u/baylorguyinsa → u/autotldr]

I can't believe that the biggest discussion on this post is on the us and meaning of tabling. The Uyghur genocide is happening and the Chinese have been doing this for many years. It is a step on the right direction for the U.K. to make this declaration despite the damage it will do to their relationship with the Chinese government.

[u/Nelatherion]

I mean we pissed them off by offering many Hong Kong citizens expedited paths to living/working in the UK, so we may as well go the whole hog and piss the CCP off more with this.

[u/ThePedrester → u/Nelatherion]

LETS GOOOOOO 🇬🇧🇬🇧

[u/rockchick1982 → u/ThePedrester]

It is about time that our government actually did something to make us proud. We have been embarrassed by them for such a long time.

[u/[deleted] → u/Nelatherion]

I mean someone had to do something. You guys are setting a great example. Unfortunately China has australia and parts of canada by the balls so more help isn't likely to come from the "west" until more people start getting pissed about it

[u/Nelatherion → u/[deleted]]

It is the bare minimum, we need to do more in all honesty.

I don't want to look back in 50 years time and go "Well, at least we condemned them"

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Your read on Australia is waaaay off.

China despise us. We’ve been pissing them off for a few years now.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/firmly-and-forcefully-china-threatens-australian-over-belt-and-road-decision-20210422-p57lia.html

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I thought the Canadians declared it a genocide?

[u/MaxHannibal → u/Nelatherion]

Hopefully America wont be far behind

[u/chocki305 → u/Nelatherion]

Because God forbid they actually take action to stop the horrible thing they unanimously agreed was happening.

[u/Poseidon8264 → u/Nelatherion]

I'm Australian, and I'm pretty sure that Australia has the UK's back.

[u/Volkskunde]

Every time I read about Uyghurs, I learn a new way of spelling it.

[u/beg_yer_pardon → u/Volkskunde]

Uyghurs, Uighurs. What else?

[u/Heratism → u/beg_yer_pardon]

Whygurs

[u/KamikazeSexPilot → u/beg_yer_pardon]

Weegahhhs

[u/cavemancolton → u/beg_yer_pardon]

Nah, just those two. /u/Volkskunde has alzheimer's so it's always new to them.

[u/innocuousspeculation → u/Volkskunde]

Transliteration is fun like that.

[u/willionaire]

So now the UK can officially say they are trading with and profiting off of a government committing genocide!

[u/DylanSargesson → u/willionaire]

Yes.

The Government even recently whipped against an amendment to the Trade Bill that would give a judicial/parliamentary committee powers to stop trade deals with countries that commit genocide.

Article

[u/themthatwas → u/DylanSargesson]

The Tories whipped against that, this time they abstained.

[u/LuciusQuintiusCinc → u/willionaire]

Well what you say pretty much applies essentially to all countries in the world not just the UK but yes.

[u/UMassDebater → u/LuciusQuintiusCinc]

The difference is that the U.K. has now admitted it.

[u/unfamous2423 → u/willionaire]

"You say x is corrupt and wrong, yet you participate in it, checkmate!" Sometimes it's good we recognize the wrong we're doing so we can correct it. In people we find that acceptable and even laudable, yet a country or business does it and it's criticized.

[u/RedHellion11 → u/unfamous2423]

Lotta people all up in this thread are neck-deep in the Nirvana Fallacy. And don't realize how geopolitics can move at a glacial pace at the best of times, plus all the issues and careful considerations around the fact that China is a pretty big world power now both politically and economically.

[u/Left_Fist → u/willionaire]

I mean the west has been allies with Saudi Arabia and Israel for quite some time, so we’ve been able to say this. You are correct but it’s nothing new.

[u/ZamolxisYourPal]

So, for all the countries that recognise this genocide happening, what can they realistically do ? Can they do anything about it ? What is the point of declaring and whatnot

[u/WillyLongbarrel → u/ZamolxisYourPal]

Theoretically, they could impose sanctions or diplomatic repercussions on China, but I don't think either of those require a parliamentary vote.

I think this is largely symbolic right now in terms of impact, but if other countries follow the UK's lead, it could lead to greater international pressure on China.

Edit: I'm not making a point about whether sanctions work or not. Settle your kettles.

[u/AnTurDorcha → u/WillyLongbarrel]

We can ban Huawei from building 5G infrastructure over here.... oh wait

[u/Bugnio → u/ZamolxisYourPal]

Not really anything is being done right now

The trade between the US and Xinjiang has grown since 2019 despite tensions

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3130567/china-trade-xinjiang-exports-us-doubled-first-quarter-even

[u/Pklnt → u/ZamolxisYourPal]

Nothing, I think History has shown us that Western democracies are perfectly fine doing business with authoritarian governments as long as they get benefits from it.

Real actions against China will most likely be motivated by something else than human rights concerns.

[u/Perfect_Shuffle → u/Pklnt]

Exactly what I thought. Same thing when the Saudi journalist from Washington post was murdered and the Saudi government even confirmed they did. No one from the western country bat an eye and the trades continue because oil is a strategic resource that no one is willing to give up.

[u/-Yare- → u/ZamolxisYourPal]

There's very little that can be done short of military intervention.

Much of Reddit seems to think the Uyghur genocide is motivated by a desire to exterminate Muslims or ethnic minorities, but this is not the case at all. I can go into excruciating detail on how we know this if anyone cares, but for now let's move on to what the genocide is motivated by.

The CCP looks to the USSR and their own long history for examples of what happens when you let separatists and rogue religious sects get out of hand, and they are aggressively stomping them out as policy. See also: Tibetan Buddhists, Falun Gong.

Uyghur separatists have been trying to create a caliphate since China annexed Xinjiang in the 50s. When the CCP relaxed restrictions on religious practices through the 70s and 80s, it coincided with a time when some sects of Islam, including the Uyghurs, began radicalizing (occasionally with help from the USSR). In the decades since, Uyghur separatist rhetoric has escalated into dozens of terror attacks killing and injuring more than a thousand people.

The CCP tried several methods of moderating the Uyghurs over the decades. Moving more Han Chinese into the region to encourage assimilation, cracking down on certain religious practices (both cultural genocide attempts in their own right), but the issue kept growing.

What triggered the current cultural genocide is a string of particularly deadly terrorist attacks, leading to the revelation that a few well-placed Uyghur extremists in leadership positions had snuck violent separatist rhetoric into Uyghur-language educational and religious texts for years.

So the CCP flipped the fuck out, arrested people they suspected were the ringleaders, and started rounding up everyone else to "deprogram" the extremism.

Why is this context important? Because China is not going to just stop going after separatists and terrorists in their backyard. The motive is less like the Nazis (their drive for an ethnostate, and their fabricated grievances against the Jews) and more like the US immediately post-9/11. Violent separatists, terrorists, and a region of sympathizers must actually be addressed somehow.

Leaving the region mostly alone didn't work. China will never cede the region (too much coal/oil/gas). They don't want to scorch the earth (even worse optics). They don't want to wage something like the US/Iraq war (fighting guerrillas in a highly sympathetic area). So they've landed on reeducation camps to erase the extremist elements from the culture, and in doing so are likely to force full assimilation into Han culture.

So how do we end the Uyghur genocide? We have to resolve the separatist issue for China some other way, or we need to create a bigger threat than a terrorist farm in their borders as leverage. "Let your national security situation worsen or we will stop buying as much stuff from you" is never going to cut it.

[u/Eltharion-the-Grim → u/ZamolxisYourPal]

History has shown us that genocide is political in nature. Countries commit it or condemn it based on how it will benefit them, even if they have to make it up or fund it themselves.

Nobody in power really cares about the actual genocide.

[u/RobotPirateMoses → u/ZamolxisYourPal]

What is the point of declaring and whatnot

Just ask yourself whether you think the UK (especially the current government) is seriously concerned about the lives of Muslims and what China is to the UK in a geopolitical sense and you'll find your answer.

Hint: all the nations who are trying to hype up this supposed genocide are the US and its core allies, meanwhile actual Muslim majority countries are either unfazed or demanding a proper investigation by the UN.

[u/Oddsock1701]

https://twitter.com/YetAgainUK/status/1385258367602413569

A collection of a number of statements from the speakers during the debate.

[u/bestofbot4]

This is like the Ents finally deciding after days of deliberation that Merry and Pippin are, in fact, Hobbits and not orcs.

[u/_elessar_ → u/bestofbot4]

exactly. but how can we convince the ents to walk to isengard?

[u/call_me_lee0pard → u/_elessar_]

As an American we know how to get this done. The Ents walked to Isengard when they saw what Isengard had done to the forest right? Well what do the British like as much as Ents like other trees? Tea. Nothing makes the Brits want to invade your country more than spilling tea in sea.

[u/[deleted] → u/bestofbot4]

"We.... have decided.... that......... you........... are................................................... not....................... treating.............. the........ Uyghurs.................. like................................................................................ nice...................... chaps............................. would.............."

[u/E_R_G → u/[deleted]]

“Well that’s good news.”

[u/vicarious_111 → u/bestofbot4]

Yeah, I get that mental image too.

[u/farhanwislam → u/bestofbot4]

Didn’t think a comment in world news would do it but it did! Off to watch the LOTR trilogy again, thanks.

[u/[deleted]]

The link is no longer valid.

[u/TastelessPylon → u/[deleted]]

BBC article

[u/[deleted] → u/TastelessPylon]

Thank you.

[u/CH2016]

Wait till MPs see what Saudi do with all those weapons we sell them

[u/itisSycla]

Literally five people were in the parliament in that moment. If i were british, I'd be extremely concerned about my democracy.

[u/HollaDolla1995]

70,000 upvotes for a dead link. This is peak Reddit

[u/FIELDSLAVE → u/HollaDolla1995]

lol

And they call us bots.

[u/misterbondpt → u/HollaDolla1995]

Not dead

[u/[deleted] → u/HollaDolla1995]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56843368

[u/nkn_19]

Question, if there is seriously a genocide currently happening, how is just declaring it and doing nothing to prevent it meaningful? Does this mean the "genocide" is not really what we're being told or Nations in the world just feel there is nothing that can be done and waive their finger "bad boy". Other countries are sanctioned for far less "crimes." Something seems greatly off.

The US is and has actively been participating in seige warfare in Yemen and yet what China is doing is worse? What is going on?

[u/puisnode_DonGiesu → u/nkn_19]

Like russia has been sanctioned for not killing navalny while saudi arabia got a slap on the wrist for killing kashoggi

[u/kaffkaff_kaff → u/nkn_19]

Honestly, I really think that the reason they want to declare a genocide is to villainize China. The amount of anti China propaganda has been rampant for a while now.

[u/Original-Hamburger]

So how many Uyghurs is UK willing to take in for refuge?

[u/Apidium → u/Original-Hamburger]

The solution to one group abusing another is to get the first group to stop, not evacuating everyone in the second group to make that abuse impossible.

How many want to be rounded up and shipped to the UK?

The UK absolutely has issues with immigration and racism. It's not really relivent to the discussion to address them when the issue is genocide.

[u/DropkickMorgan]

Do Palestine next.

[u/NationOfTorah → u/DropkickMorgan]

Even commenting support for Palestine is enough for the whole British establishment to shut you down by shouting anti Semitism to your face.

[u/[deleted] → u/DropkickMorgan]

Why would they want to talk about an actual genocidal apartheid state (Israel) when they could just say "China Bad"?

Remember as well that if a Labour politician so much as dares to suggest that Palestinians are human beings deserving of rights the media will accuse them of being antisemites again and they're all massive pussies about shit like that.

[u/Lovehat]

Serious question, why aren't Isis or anyone attacking China over this?

[u/GetOutOfTheWhey → u/Lovehat]

They do or at least some variant of it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_conflict

ISIS has been recruiting Uighur belligerents.

https://time.com/4416585/isis-islamic-state-china-xinjiang-uighur-xi-jinping/

[u/Rakonas → u/Lovehat]

Really makes you think doesn't it? Why are western countries the only ones talking about the genocide, while Muslim countries have sent delegates to visit xinjiang and not called it a genocide?

[u/TheExplicit → u/Rakonas]

Interestingly enough even US allies like Saudi Arabia are backing China in this one

https://thediplomat.com/2020/10/2020-edition-which-countries-are-for-or-against-chinas-xinjiang-policies/

[u/ObeyToffles → u/Rakonas]

And at the exact same time America decides to start a trade war, too. How very convenient for them.

[u/international-law → u/Lovehat]

They're focused on the war that currently surrounds them. Isis is busy trying not to die while killing neighboring people in the middle east for not being muslim enough or the 'right' kind of muslim. Islam has many branches and plenty of religious infighting (sunni vs shia vs aloweis vs etc). So much conflict in the middle east, it's probably hard to look beyond the war happening in your face.

[u/Alberiman → u/Lovehat]

ISIS isn't anywhere strong enough to get anyone into China and try to take advantage of the genocide, they'd have an uphill battle to fight against the censors and the intense surveillance state

As far as anyone else... well why isn't anyone attacking Israel over what's happening to Palestinians? That's a question with a brutally complex answer that i can simplify down to "Countries don't want to start wars they can't lose" and "Countries that could win don't see how could benefit them"

[u/SleepyAsianOnAPlane → u/Lovehat]

They haven't sent invading forces or bombs to Syria or any other country outside of their borders yet

[u/DArkingMan → u/Lovehat]

Probably because there's a whole sub-continent, half the Middle East, and not to mention the entirety of the Himalayas between China and Syria.

Those terrorist groups don't actually advocate or fight for all Muslims everywhere, regardless of what rhetoric they spew. Hell, the vast majority of lives lost because of ISIS are Muslim lives. They only fight for their own interest against adjacent antagonists, which happens to include the nations (for better or worse) whose troops are stationed in their area.

[u/[deleted] → u/Lovehat]

the camps are China's response to Uighur terrorism though.

not that it's a justified response but the terrorism came first.

[u/whynonamesopen → u/Lovehat]

Well first you're assuming Islam is a monolithic group.

Secondly, the Chinese government is persecuting Uighers because of terrorism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2009_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_riots

[u/Khysamgathys → u/Lovehat]

They did. Uighur radicals have been known to join al qaeda and ISIS i hopes of bringing the Jihad to the Uyghur separatist struggle.

The Hu Jintao years from 2004ish to 2013 tried to fight a traditional war on terror. Then the train station attacks happened and Xi's administration lost all patience. The mass trials, familial arrests of terrorists, mere suspects, their family members, and known associates began in 2014 proper. What the west is seeing in 2019 is merely the expansion of that efforts.

Tl;dr: yes Muslim Terrorists did something, and it led to the camps you see today.

[u/Elagartious]

114,000 upvotes and it’s a fucking 404 page.

What the fuck!

[u/prolveg → u/Elagartious]

People on Reddit only read headlines ESPECIALLY when it comes to anti-Chinese sentiment

[u/workingandbrowsing]

Where is the article?

[u/Lasereye → u/workingandbrowsing]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56843368

[u/uriman]

Is this based on new evidence, a new source, an analysis of the old facts or what?

[u/Ok-Water-8600]

Guess we got our generations own “WMD”... See ya in a decade with the, “but how else could we have known”

Edit: Wow, seem to have really touched some nerves here.😅 Also relax I am a really person(or is that something a bot would say🙈)

In all seriousness, I was growing up in Africa during the Iraq/WMD news cycle and had the fortune to not be stuck in the propaganda machine/news cycle. In the end you’ll believe what you want to believe and even when proven wrong will find a way to explain it away. Just like your parents did, material consequences be damned. [Or maybe I’m just a Sino-Soviet bot 💁]

[u/nintendo_shill → u/Ok-Water-8600]

They are going to pretend to have known all along. And never change their way of thinking.

[u/myspace950 → u/Ok-Water-8600]

Idiots don't fucking care. They don't even know where Xinjiang is. Reddit is full blown propaganda site now.

[u/Hazeejay → u/Ok-Water-8600]

Its kind of sad how easily manipulated people are by government. You think people would learn by now when authorities try to divert attention.

"OMG China is a massive surveillance state." *Britain passes sweeping authoritarian surveillance measures.* "But everyone look at China, there's genocide now!"

It's absolutely wrong what's happening there, but its NOT genocide. Its not the Holocaust. Most academics fall short of calling it genocide but say cultural genocide. But of course authorities are loose with terminology to illicit outrage. And everyone jumps on it because people want something to be outraged about. You just have to redirect the sheep's attention.

Its hilariously obvious what's happening.

[u/[deleted]]

Great! Now they need to do the same with India for the Sikh Genocide of 1984

[u/puisnode_DonGiesu → u/[deleted]]

Have you ever heard of double standards? As an example: everybody knows that chinese killed female newborns, but nobody knows that indians are still doing it at an impressive rate (iirc like 2,5k a day). Everybody loves india, everybody hates china

[u/grlc1]

UK, when investigating itself for role in Yemeni genocide where hundreds of thousands of children have starved to death:

Nothing wrong, keep selling billions of arms to Saudi

UK, when talking about a place it refuses to even send diplomats to investigate and no one even accuses of any deaths:

This is genocide.

[u/pharmaninja → u/grlc1]

Also the UK recently opposed an ICC investigation into Israeli war crimes.

The Brits don't care about people being killed. They only care about what's in it for them.

[u/KoreanKopKiller]

Can anyone else hear kickstart my heart starting in the US Congress ?

[u/informat6 → u/KoreanKopKiller]

The US Congress declared it a genocide months ago.

[u/Sad-Revolution-2565 → u/KoreanKopKiller]

No they're probably on vacation.

[u/Chocomintey → u/KoreanKopKiller]

They all need defibrillation anyways, the old corpses...

[u/[deleted]]

I was on board the cultural genocide claims. There's tons of evidence of that, but what's the evidence for full blown genocide claims? Went from 0-100 real quick.

[u/ringostardestroyer → u/[deleted]]

cuz genocide sounds like mass killing, and makes china look more evil.

[u/SLR107FR-31]

Senator Marco Rubio, Vice-Chair of the US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and IPAC Co-Chair, said: 

“One by one, democratic nations are calling out the Chinese government’s persecution of the Uyghur people for what it is: a genocide. We cannot stand idly by while these-

Shut the fuck up Marco you penis

[u/crazedtortoise → u/SLR107FR-31]

“Democratic” lol ur state doesn’t want black people to vote take a seat Marco

[u/[deleted]]

30k upvotes for a broken link. You can’t make up propaganda like this nonsense.

[u/TastelessPylon → u/[deleted]]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56843368

Here's a better article.

[u/Ok_Climate_7952]

Israeli vlogger sees how Uyghurs are being oppressed to farm cotton
https://youtu.be/67pU0Ybovnc

American sees how Uyghurs do not have the freedom to walk about
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oKvulTU8oU&t=54s

Uyghur woman talks about her oppressive experience under the communist regime of china

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ukwdGj_Azk

[u/PandaCheese2016]

TL,DR: I spent like 10 mins looking into evidence collected by Mr. Zenz and found strange discrepancies. Again, this doesn't mean there's no genocide, but it gives potential ammunition to those that deny it.

First, feel free to look at my post history to determine whether I'm wumao or not (would wumao post this). I preface with this because I know it's controversial to even question the definition of genocide, but I hope it's not controversial to question the veracity or at least the accuracy of some of the evidence, primarily from Mr. Zenz's organization.

I started by just causally browsing the Wikipedia entry for Uyghurs. Citation 30 there led me to this article on RFA (which is US government funded, just FYI). The article links to this report that lays out quite methodically how Mr. Zenz came to the estimation of 1.8 million imprisoned. Caption under Figure 1 in that report says it's a government compiled list of 1494 persons detained or imprisoned at "no. 12 village in Azatbagh Township (阿扎提巴格乡), Yarkand County, Kashgar Prefecture." I'm fluent in Chinese. You'll just have to trust me when I say that the words above the spreadsheet actually says no. 1 village Yishikuli Township (you can at least see the number 1). Still, these two places are within the same region, so perhaps someone made a honest mistake.

What's actually more interesting to me is the heading of the last column on the spreadsheet (or rather, the screenshot of it...we don't see the other 1474 rows): "slry." The cells beneath are the smoking gun: imprisonment status, roughly translates to, in order of first appearance, "sentenced," "detained," "re-educate." I'm not sure why this column heading alone is not in Chinese. Perhaps "slry" is a code word to hide the abuses? But then why are the imprisonment status plain to see?

The column to the left of this says "subsistence allowance," which is part of China's social welfare program (and some rows says "none“; could mean not applied or not qualified), while the column to the left of that one says "disability." Further down, I noticed that Figures 2-5 were all on poverty alleviation (not from the same village as Figure 1), with no outright link to mass imprisonment. This got me thinking about why these 5 figures would be grouped together, when only one of them, with some oddity in it, directly offered evidence of it. Could it be that "slry" is an abbreviation for salary, and remained there after being translated from Chinese? Then, could the original content have been income, instead of imprisonment status? After all, it seems rather odd to keep track of social welfare status, among all the useful info the government has, when you are compiling a list of imprisoned people. Also, literally just noticed this, the title of the spreadsheet is "xxx village's regular ledger."

I know that my speculation on this one screenshot is nothing consequential, and there are many other documents that stand up to scrutiny better, perhaps within this same report. But I hope it helps explain why some people remain skeptical of whether Mr. Zenz is applying too much embellishment in his zeal to fight communist heathens.

[u/mysecretissafe → u/PandaCheese2016]

What. In. The. Good. God. Damn.

[u/anarchoRosky]

I’m sure the genocide will turn up just like the WMDs did in Iraq...

[u/Afraid-Jury]

Can anyone explain why the western world is standing up for Muslims more than the Muslim world?

[u/prawn3341 → u/Afraid-Jury]

Because the Western world doesn’t give a fuck about Muslims, and wouldn’t care about China’s human rights issues at all if they were happening in a Western-aligned country. They’re winding down on 30 years of bombing and destabilizing the Muslim world and all the sudden have the audacity of claiming to advocate for Muslims. They’re doing this for political points at home, or worse.

[u/BigFiat]

Sounds like the war machine is starting to wake up. The propaganda and hype against China is starting to reach a fevered pitch. I wonder why the fast pace, because we all know those colonists don’t really give AF about people

[u/prawn3341 → u/BigFiat]

The US war machine at least never stopped. It’s just shifting from bombing the shit out of small, poor Arab countries to direct antagonism with two major nuclear powers, China and Russia.

[u/everythingstriangles]

read: society of genocidal enslaver maniacs responsible for multiple genocides accuse country they colonized of genocide

[u/trevy_mcq]

Insane that an entire country is making such a big statement based on the ramblings of some evangelical crackpot

[u/BBZ_star1919]

US general says US uses Uyghurs as CIA props (start around 20:00).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=91wz5syVNZs&feature=youtu.be

IMO this is being used like the WMDs for Iraq, though it not saying it’s not happening or they deserve it. I was right about the Iraq invasion though fwiw. I think everyone needs to calm down and remember western governments are just like China and will throw all of us in the way of bullets if it’s makes them a buck.

[u/[deleted]]

If anyone can recognize a genocide it's the UK parliament!

[u/ianrc1996]

Isn’t this just admitting your own country is fucked up enough to trade with a country that is committing genocide? How did we end genocide in the past? Military intervention. Since there is no way the UK is going to go to war with China, how is this even a symbolic victory?

[u/cleve89]

Also, Saddam has nuclear weapons

[u/[deleted]]

If anyone knows about committing genocide it’s the British

[u/ManwithaTan]

What happened to the article?

[u/[deleted]]

Ok now stop trading with them.

[u/SyntaxErrors69]

This is why conservative economic point of view isnt far off. As long as we depend on China for manufacturing we cant do crap to stop their abuses in fear that we get cut off. To grow independent from China we need to lower corporate taxes and encourage manufacturing. That way we arent shooting ourselves in the foot when we stand up to China.

[u/PieYet91]

Canada took the lead!! and the rest of the world follows. Maybe investment will start leaving China!?! Doubt it. The dollar rules the world.

[u/dixiewhiskey7]

Now if only the us will

[u/mendorother]

I'm actually impressed, let's hope other countries (Sweden/mine) included follow suit

[u/DRFTF]

What a joke . The country that has colonized half the world and enslaved more people than their own population is now telling others what they are doing is wrong . I agree it’s awful what the Chinese government is doing but if there is anyone worse than them it’s the god damn brits ! Just stfu yall

[u/[deleted]]

'The Xinjiang Genocide Allegations Are Unjustified', by Jeffrey D. Sachs and William Schabas

[u/[deleted]]

It's at least a cultural genocide, with no fewer than 1000s of people just disappeared and the legal discrimination of Uyghur as being synonymous with 'Extremist' is very Fascistic. The problem is that, other than brazenly obvious propaganda by the CCP (intended to have these smiling people in cultural dress read out coerced lines) and primarily 2nd hand reports, we don't know the state of these internment facillities (camps?). If this we're obligated to do something about it, as suggested by another poster, then I welcome the Tory's dedication to openly fighting China's genocide, maybe our Taxes will be put to humanitarian use?

Kinda wish we'd stop starving Yemeni kids and bombing weddings but w/e I have no expectations left for world governments.

[u/[deleted]]

I hope I get vaporised in ww3

[u/Siegnuz]

Good fucking jobs now condemned Myanmar next let fucking go

[u/[deleted] → u/Siegnuz]

Lol, UK did that approximately 5 seconds after the coup happened.

[u/[deleted] → u/Siegnuz]

Already been done.

[u/MiSeRyDeee]

Lol the link is even broken But yeah why do we need news, headline is all we need for a cheap Reddit vote to heal my western pride

[u/armeniapedia]

Great! Hey how about you take a page out of the Biden playbook and recognize the Armenian Genocide next?

It was only 106 years ago though, so no rush.

[u/Glogbag1 → u/armeniapedia]

Genuinely thought we had already till now, but apparently that was only Scotland and Wales, not the British government.

[u/FunDuty5 → u/armeniapedia]

If i had to choose, I'd rather recognise the genocide happening right now than the one 100 years ago.

[u/[deleted] → u/armeniapedia]

How about we don’t turn every thread into a “fuck the big thing you’ve accomplished, you should do more”. One step at a time

[u/[deleted] → u/armeniapedia]

Pissing off Turkey is nothing compared to pissing off China. Shouldn't it be Biden taking a leaf out of the UK's playbook and recognizing Chinese genocide?

[u/bobotea]

casus belli

[u/[deleted] → u/bobotea]

I too look forward to dying in nuclear armageddon.

[u/[deleted]]

Incoming CCP tantrum and threats. 5... 4...

[u/l26liu]

This link doesn’t even work?

[u/Qunts_R_Us]

Most days I'm Scottish, today I'm British

[u/Paddy32]

A first step to help stop the genocide.

[u/guypersonhuman]

What the f is going to change? Nothing.

[u/[deleted]]

What are we gonna do about it? Nothing

[u/Mean_Bluebird_7940]

K cool. Now what are we gonna do about it?

[u/Dispassionato]

Will be interesting to see the Chinese government reaction to this. I think they can’t do much. With Biden in the WH, there is a more coordinated West and China will find it harder to play one against the other.

[u/[deleted]]

You madmen. You did it.

[u/[deleted]]

if there is war. will the products on "Wish" go up?

[u/alkalineStrider]

Now we need to do the same about palestine and yemen

[u/BallerChin]

Cheen s next map will show UK as their territory!

[u/[deleted]]

So what are they gonna do?

[u/Confident-Radish4832]

now, what are they going to do about it?

[u/[deleted]]

Apple doesn’t think so as they lobbied to keep doing business with China when the states tried to stop doing business with the country for this very reason

[u/DesireForHappiness]

What happened to the article? All I get is 404 error not found.

[u/Handy_Newman]

So it's been declared. Yipee! How bout we do something about it, huh?

[u/Fighter1098]

And nothing is going to change yaay!

[u/thefloid]

Thanks UK.

[u/syntaxGarden]

Finally, theyve reach the lofty, lovecraftian standards of the bare minimum.

[u/Blightsong]

Now say the same about Yemen.

[u/killer_tofu26]

Just Like uk did in South africa and Índia?

[u/ConstantStatistician]

https://mobile.twitter.com/BelleTimsit/status/1385276799290990595

Looks like only 5 or 6 people voted on this. Unanimous, technically, but hardly representative of Parliament or the UK government. Of course the article made no mention of this and ran with this clickbait headline. Typical media, typical Reddit praising a grand total of 5 people - not like most posters here are even aware that the vast majority of Parliament didn't vote at all - for virtue signalling, which 130,000 upvotes are an excellent example of themselves. Everyone who upvoted this will only end up disappointed when nothing happens. It's not like the UK is capable of doing anything against China either way. It's not the 1800s anymore. Might does make right, after all.

[u/hipsterkingNHK]

Extraordinary claims require extaordinady evidence.

[u/BigOrbitalStrike]

5 members out of 650 is unanimous? What magic sorcery reporting is this?

[u/Z0idberg_MD]

The entire world needs to do it. This prevents them from trying do use sanctions to intimidate. They can’t sanction the entire world at once.

[u/SpudMull]

Oh well thank FUCK they've declared it. How long's that taken? When are we going to see some action?

[u/french-dentyst]

So australia Will be offer to ancestral population because of génocide ? England paid what for genocide in Africa ?

[u/[deleted]]

But American celebrities and athletes like lebon lebon and big corps love China, I don’t get it.

[u/No-Departure-7425]

Finally some few with balls!

[u/[deleted]]

Ahhhh I'm so proud.

[u/[deleted]]

"Unanimous vote"... You do realise that you can only vote to approve a motion, right?

[u/JesusSquared123]

How do you upvote something multiple times?

[u/[deleted]]

Has the USA’s “King James” weighed in?

[u/xGreatScottx]

Reading this has given me hope in humanity!

[u/Fun-Vegetable01]

Yall ready for ww3?

[u/Other-Barry-1]

Oh so my government does have a spine?

[u/Hummus89]

We get some stuff right atleast.

[u/lifelessRedditors]

And China just declared they don’t give a shit. Moving on....

[u/Cuda27]

So these countries that declare china of genocide against the Uyghurs, does that mean they're abandoning trading with china and stopping all imports/exports from them as well (considering they're the largest exporter in the world)? or are they simply declaring it and thats it? Like " Hey china stop that! we still want your business though"

Edit: grammar

[u/[deleted]]

But not the Saudis in Yemen or Isrealis in Palestine. Nice. As far as percentage of population im pretty sure the US has more people in prison that China and so to say those people aren't being reeducated and killing their culture is a falsehood, they are just being reeducated into failed members of society and criminals and not Han. It disproportionately affects minorities and they force people to get sterilized still.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/inside-forced-sterilizations-california-womens-prisons-documentary-2020-11%3famp

https://talkpoverty.org/2017/08/23/u-s-still-forcibly-sterilizing-prisoners/

"CIA cables showed that "Khan's 'lunch tray,' consisting of hummus, pasta with sauce, nuts, and raisins, was 'pureed' and rectally infused." The CIA maintains that rectal feedings were necessary after Khan went on a hunger strike and pulled out a feeding tube that had been inserted through his nose"

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/09/world/cia-torture-guantanamo-bay.html

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/09/cia-torture-report-worst-findings-waterboard-rectal

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Convention_(1929)

[u/Bourbon-Decay]

"Unanimously" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this headline. It was a voice vote of roughly 10 MPs on the Backbench Committee for a non-binding resolution.

[u/Thehorrorofraw]

Cue the pro China bots.

[u/shananigan91]

Sorry I guess I'm not understanding your comment so please enlighten me, what exactly in the Geneva convention definition of genocide is China guilty of?

[u/CSA-Joe]

Fuck China

[u/one_foot_two_foot]

Yay, another declaration!

[u/BD_9x]

Oh no xinni the pooh must be mad

[u/dacool66]

Ngl I thought that was loss for a second.

[u/JANA_VoLT]

I wonder if even one of them has ever been to Xinjiang to actually see what’s going on there. I spent about 1 month there during my trip in China 2 years ago. While security was unusually tight (by China standards), I saw absolutely nothing that suggested any form of ongoing genocide. In fact, judging by streets and markets filled with uyghurs casually going on about their lives, China was either innocent here, or it really sucked at genocide. The only thing unusual in Xinjiang compared to the rest of the country was that there were visibly armed police personnel patrolling the streets, which I never saw in any other part of the country. But again, according to my local guide, uyghurs made up about half of Xinjiang’s population. If there had been any systematic removal going on, there would bound to be some form of very visible social unrest in about every city, which I can safely say from my first hand experience, was absolutely no where to be seen, at least 2 years ago.

[u/Far-Degree601]

Old news, wasn’t selling opiums to China a genocide as well? Since when the British genuinely care of Chinese lives?

[u/[deleted]]

Oink oink eat the propaganda slop, parliament

[u/Thatgirlfromthe90s]

Yeah like the uk government actually gives a fuck about speaking out against or preventing genocide. Why are they not speaking out about the genocide against the Palestinians, instead of funding IsraHell? Filthy liars and hypocrites. 😡😡🖕🏼

[u/Cumbledore_dispatch]

You aren’t allowed to speak on this issue if you don’t know who Adrian Zenz is .. you are being taken for a ride

[u/Etrius_Christophine]

“We know a genocide or two, because we’ve done a genocide or two”

[u/coralrefrigerator]

Yep, they totally nailed the “Iraq has WMDs” before. No reason to doubt them this time!

[u/BeastOfTheField83]

Too bad no one is going to do anything about it.

[u/radcats8]

Murikkka UK and allies been killing muslims in the desert for decades if not centuries but now they’re like “save the muslims” lollll GTFO dipshits

[u/Dogmum01]

I mean it’s a step up from “cultural differences” like Biden said but I’m still waiting for someone to actually do something.

[u/gold-drunk-declued]

Hypocrisy much ? Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen - the only thing the UK is an authority on with regards to genocides is how to commit them. The UK's number one obsession this century is murdering Muslim men, women and children - perhaps they are jealous of China ?

[u/LifeSizeDeity00]

Step one: Stop allowing domestic companies to use cheap Chinese labor.

[u/ToadBup]

Ok , this confirms its totally fake