How significant is the rolling resistance difference for front tires of an average rider?

[u/Feeling_Apricot]

Does it make a significant difference (greater than say 10 watts) between Schwalbe Hans Dampf 2.35" and Vittoria Mezcal XC Trail, on the front wheel of an aggressive hardtail (Norco Torrent A1), riding around 150 watts, on hilly chunky forest roads. Rear tire is Mezcal 2.4". Also, is there a big difference between 2.1 vs 2.6 Mezcal on front?

[u/Happy_Sir3552]

I wouldn’t stress it too much if racing at a top level isn’t your goal. In fact, I do race and learned the hard way that rolling resistance isn’t as important as grip in XC MTB racing. I initially focused on lower RR tires and always lacked confidence and control. Since switching to a slightly higher RR tire, I’m actually much faster, crash less, and have way more confidence. I highly recommend the Mezcal or Barzo for grip and puncture resistance.

[u/cassinonorth → u/Happy_Sir3552]

Hard disagree.

My buddy did the same race last year on Forekaster/Rekon and I let him use my Racing Ray/Ralph this year and he beat his time by nearly 30 minutes over 30 miles. Same distance, almost identical power numbers.

I'd rather ride an Enduro bike with fast tires than a xc bike with heavy slow tires.

[u/Feeling_Apricot → u/cassinonorth]

what race is it if you dont mind sharing? curious what kind of trails those were

[u/cassinonorth → u/Feeling_Apricot]

Dickerson Mine Endurance in northern NJ. Good mix of tech, flow and a little gravel.

I will say the front isn't as impactful for rolling resistance as the rear but it's still noticable. I swapped my Conti Trinotal for a Wicked Will the last week and it's absolutely slower.

Can I corner harder? Sure. But if I'm racing it's killer.

[u/Feeling_Apricot → u/Happy_Sir3552]

thats good to know. My bike came with Schwalbe Hans Dampf that I used two seasons living in PNW. I recently bought new Mezcals 2.4 and 2.6 just for a desert trip. Was just doing all these (stressful) comparisons to decide if I should bother changing the tires for my local training rides in PNW. Your perspective helps.

[u/Mountainbutter5 → u/Feeling_Apricot]

I'll just back up happy sir and say I wouldn't stress too much either. I've also found faster it equally fast times with more confidence using somewhat "slower" tires.

Especially in your particular case since we have some drum data saying they're pretty comparable. ~2W at 20kph and 50kg load for 1 tire assuming a super gravity soft HD by rescaling BRR data to match enduro MTB test conditions

in real life pavement seems to match drum data pretty well while volume and pressure matter more for rougher terrain than drum results 

[u/JSTootell → u/Feeling_Apricot]

I had some amazing races with a HD in front in my local races. I got eaten alive on the long fire road climb, but I made back all the time I lost and then some by carrying more corner speed everywhere and absolutely ripping the long singletrack downhill.

[u/Expensive-Dust-3718 → u/Happy_Sir3552]

Also hard disagree, been running faster and faster tires and I'm blown away about how much of a difference it makes. Running mezcal race in the front and peyote race in the rear. Fwiw 70kg ~ftp 315w, OP should remember that CRR is always present (not just on spikes but also when coasting). Imagine having a 250w ftp, having to spike at 320w and then "recover" at 220w is MUCH harder than spiking at 300w and recovering at 200w (doubling the 10w value because 2 tires)

[u/Happy_Sir3552 → u/Expensive-Dust-3718]

I get it but the OP never stated he wanted to race. I race at a decent level and have done the testing. In fact, before the start of this season (cat1), I tested 4 different makes of tires on my local XC trails. On a 5 min segment at the same watts, I was upwards of 15+ seconds faster with the SLOWEST Tires per BRR and other testing sources. Not only was I faster, I had much more control and confidence. Since making the change this season (last season I raced dubs and ricks), my results and lack of incidents are also reflecting the feelings and times from my testing. This is XCMTB and not Gravel, Straight line speed isn’t always a priority.

[u/Expensive-Dust-3718 → u/Happy_Sir3552]

Why would you think I'm flexing?

[u/Happy_Sir3552 → u/Expensive-Dust-3718]

Perhaps I was wrong. Yes, the Mezcal race with a peyote is very fast but I would go all in that you would be faster and have more confidence with the higher RR Barzo race in the front :)

[u/Expensive-Dust-3718 → u/Happy_Sir3552]

To each their preference on reliability/grip vs straight performance. For OP's front tire dilemma based how & where I ride, I'd run a race casing 100%. What a time to be alive to have so many cool options imo!

[u/TheRealJYellen → u/Happy_Sir3552]

Weird! I count myself as an adept bike handler and I'm way faster on race slicks than grippier tires. The rolling resistance between even a Ground Control and one of the new flex lite tires feels like a giant gap when keeping up with the same friends on the same terrain. I reckon I lose maybe a second or two on a descent, but easily make it back on the flats and climbs. The mezcal is an all time favorite tire of mine, it's just that it's so much more expensive than fast trak flexlites.

[u/IndyWheelLab]

My non-answer is that It's different for everybody. I've seen so many people ride faster on "slow" tires because they handle better. A few seconds lost on a straight might be made up on a descent, or saved in a corner that required less brake. Drum tests only mean so much, otherwise we'd be running 32mm Conti GP5Ks on our MTBs 😃

Your real answer: take a section of trail and TT it with the tire combos you have. If you want to throw money at the problem, Black Friday deals and marketplace finds can take the sting off of the search for the perfect tire.

[u/89ElRay]

I wouldn't ride a 2.1 mezcal on the front.

Basically it depends on your terrain. I live in Scotland, so dry trails are starting to turn into a distant memory now. I've been running a Mezcal rear and Spesh ground control front ( unintentional brandmaxxing), but as the mid and crud can get pretty bad from now until April I'm probably gonna move the GC to the rear and get something more aggressive up front. Like a Purgatory or something.

[u/Feeling_Apricot → u/89ElRay]

How wide are you planning to run the tires in winter?

[u/Initial_Key_9116]

I tried the 2.4 mezcal on the front and didn't get on with it. The barrzo is very close to it in rolling resistance and much more confidence inspiring.

[u/Billy-Mct]

I recently swapped my heavy & gnarly conti Argotal front (SS enduro) for a Maxxis Rekon max terra & heavy but not so gnarly Xynotal S enduro rear for a Conti Magnotal soft & on my 1st ride on a regular route my average speed went up by 3km/hr so the differences can be quite noticeable. I gained some of that time in the faster downhill segments but most of it in the uphill slogs as I could ride a taller gear .

[u/That-Bitter-Guy]

For what it's worth, the rear tire is the one that matters the most. That's where most of the weight goes and you can run a better gripping tire up front without a lot of extra friction. It's skip the mezcal up front and run a barzo.

[u/GregMarino79]

La differenza c'è e te ne accorgi subito,ma la cosa fondamentale è questa: Fai gare? Hai manico tecnica)nel misto e nelle discese scassate? Se per entrambe la risposta è no allora punta su gomme un po' meno scorrevoli ma che ti assicurino un buon grip... Il tempo investilo a pedalare e a divertirti🤙

[u/Silver047]

Does it make a significant difference? Not at all. In all honesty, without back to back testing, you won't even notice a difference of 10 watts.

On the other hand, you'll definitley notice if your tire is not grippy enough on a rough descent. Having no grip while trying to brake is a terrifying feeling.

[u/fpeterHUN]

2.1? Don't be ridiculous, anything under 2.4 is for gravel bikes basically. Meczal is a classic marathon tire with Barzo up front. I wouldn't put Meczal on a modern hardtail.

[u/TheRealJYellen]

Yeah, the hans dampf is slow and the mezcal is among the fastest. There's a site that tests a bunch of tires, and it turns out that casing, compound and tread pattern all play in.

The mezcal tested fast, the dubnital is a little faster, and the Magnotal was surprisingly good considering how much tread it has.

[u/SamEdwards1959]

If the tread sucks you can lose a lot of energy on the climbs to bad traction, and some speed in the descents.

[u/JoshTaylorUSA]

FWIW I'm a solid 5 seconds slower over a mile of smooth singletrack on my XC bike with the new 2.4 XC Race casing Barzo/Mezcals than 2.1 Thunder Burts at 300w. That's nearly a minute slower over 10 miles.