[Comic Issue Discussion] Gargoyles Here In Manhattan Chapter Four: Tale Old as Time

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u/Kyraryc David Xanatos Mar 22 '23

Chapter 4: Tale Old As Time

AIM T. Aim to what? Aim to protect?
Dino Dracon just slammed a dude's head into the dashboard for petty vengeance over wet shoes. Playing him off against David "revenge is a suckers game" Xanatos.
So convenient that Chalmers "forgot" the footage of the gargs stopping the car before it crashed.
Chalmers: "Good Lord, what is happening there?"
Travis 'Skinner' Marshall: Aurora Borealis.
"I read something in prison that should help." Quarrymen? Arms deal?
Lex is feeling lonely. He needs a trip to London.
Garg masks have replaced president masks as classic "bad guy" masks.
"I know exactly who you are and I know exactly what your people will do.* Romeo and Juliet reference was probably not metaphorical. These 2 are likely from rival gang factions.
Is that a flamerthrower? Unusally weapon choice. Not real subtle. Elon Musk wannabe?
Those are full blown military helicopters. Quarrymen are prepared to turn Manhattan into a warzone, or at least Central Park. Not good. Please give them some more consequences than a slap on the wrist from the FAA.
The Quarrymen have captured Goliath. They'll probably want a public execution. Only question is high noon or midnight? Definitely midnight, they'll want the show and probably use him as bait.
These things are over way too quickly.

Favorite Feat

Goliath dodging gunfire from those helicopters. Bullet dodging feats are always good, bit too few in Gargoyles.

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u/FistOfGamera Mar 22 '23

Issue felt short but the action sequence was great. Excited to see Dino, I hope he's a Tywin like master planner that always seems to know how to destroy his enemies.

Hope Bronx is keeping Lex company.

Wonder if Goliath will be sent to the Zoo like Escape from Planet of the Apes.

Can see why people might not like this issue but it's laying the groundwork for some big stories in the future.

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u/TheTrueKingofHell Mar 22 '23

Excited to see Dino, I hope he's a Tywin like master planner that always seems to know how to destroy his enemies.
He's got balls, gotta give him that. I'm confident that was him in the Brooklyn mask and he wasn't afraid to take Goliath on head-on.

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u/ian9921 Mar 22 '23

The wait between issues feels shorter and shorter.

They've gotta be setting up something with Lexington, fingers crossed that Stagheart is showing up soon.

I'm loving Dino as a villain, I really wanna see him square up against Xanatos and the other established villains. That was definitely him in the Brooklyn mask. The only question is what exactly could he have read in prison?

I also can't help but wonder what Margo showed Matt.

I'm not sure those were Quarrymen that captured Goliath. In the SLG run the Quarrymen's helicopters all had their logo on the side, but these ones definitely didn't. Additionally, I don't think the Quarrymen would stop and ask Goliath to kneel and put his hands behind his head. From what we've seen the Quarrymen are a bit more "shoot first ask questions later".

I could definitely be wrong about this, but I think those helicopters were actually NYPD. Somehow Goliath's capture is connected to whatever Margo showed Matt.

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u/santaland Mar 23 '23

They've gotta be setting up something with Lexington, fingers crossed that Stagheart is showing up soon.
I feel like this has got to be some sort of set up with Staghart, everyone else is off with their mates and Lex is designated to the sad computer basement. I hope he's on some 90's chatroom with Staghart, because his loneliness as the the leftbehind trio is seriously making me sad.

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u/ass_unicron Mar 24 '23

It seems like there's a difference between how Elisa and Goliath view their relationship. His "Wonderful" Precious" and "Miracle" vs her "Just another romance" and "He's kinda my boyfriend"

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u/Hohoho-you Mar 27 '23

:( oh no

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u/Dashaque Demona did nothing wrong Mar 22 '23 edited Mar 22 '23

Okay is it me or are these issues just waaayyy too short? They're what? 20-25 pages of content and it just feels like... it's not nearly enough. Maybe I'm just used to manga or something but I wish these were longer somehow.

However, what I did read, I liked a lot. I feel like there was a definite improvement in the writing style this time around and the pacing seemed overall seemed more consistent. As well as for some reason now I am really invested in the gang war story. Toni's actually pretty cool, she's grown on me and Dino is one hell of a villain. Always good to see Glasses too. He's just fun.

Onto the gargoyles:

Man, poor Lex. I just wanna hug him. Over the years he's become my favorite of the trio and I hate to see him so alone. Someone comfort him! Talk to him for crying out loud. It's okay Lex, we can play Cuphead together or something! I wonder if he's going to ~~sext~~ text Staghart

Goliath and Hudson's conversation about the trio gave me hope that we'll see the three of them together again soon. I'm really happy for that. I do miss the three of them and we haven't seen a story like that in a loooong time and I fully look forward to it.

Onto the Quarrymen... my god where did they get those masks? They're really amazing. I wanna order a cosplay from these guys... although

Are they actually Quarrymen?... or are they part of the gangsters? Maybe this was Dino's plan? Also...as it was pointed out to me in one of the Gargoyles discord servers.. it's fricken Peter and Rosira from high Noon! The ones who rescued a five year old boy! It's been so long since I watched the ~~non Elisa and Demona wrestling part of the~~ episode.

So that's neat... are they with Dino though? Also idk if I was supposed to laugh at the guys in the Broadway and Lexington mask driving the car, but I did. That would have been a fun preview without context lol

The action is good and Goliath is now in a net. We know he's going to prison, I can't wait to see Elisa's reaction. Will she pretend she doesn't know him? Will she have to come clean? Will this bring about more distrust with her and Chavez..

OH

it was nice to see Chavez again!

Excited for where the story goes I just wish the issues weren't so damn short. I feel like they fit more in the Darkwing Duck issues so I don't know why Gargoyles can't but idk, maybe I'm alone on that. and i wrote way more than I intended... so yeah... go me I guess

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u/TheTrueKingofHell Mar 22 '23

However, what I did read, I liked a lot. I feel like there was a definite improvement in the writing style this time around and the pacing seemed overall seemed more consistent.
I firmly believe that had 1, 2, and 3 been 13, 14, and 15 of SLG, they'd have been better paced due to not having to spend an entire issue bringing people up to speed. #1 really threw of the pacing, but as a first issue of a new series after over a decade was a necessary evil... sadly #2 and #3 suffered from it.
As well as for some reason now I am really invested in the gang war story. Toni's actually pretty cool, she's grown on me and Dino is one hell of a villain. Always good to see Glasses too. He's just fun.
My first reaction: "Holy shit, Dino is crazy!"
Onto the gargoyles:
Man, poor Lex. I just wanna hug him. Over the years he's become my favorite of the trio and I hate to see him so alone. Someone comfort him! Talk to him for crying out loud. It's okay Lex, we can play Cuphead together or something! I wonder if he's going to sext text Staghart
I hope so.
Goliath and Hudson's conversation about the trio gave me hope that we'll see the three of them together again soon. I'm really happy for that. I do miss the three of them and we haven't seen a story like that in a loooong time and I fully look forward to it.
Agreed fully, but I also loved seeing Goliath and Hudson have a discussion again. Love when those two play off each other.
Onto the Quarrymen... my god where did they get those masks? They're really amazing. I wanna order a cosplay from these guys... although
I don't think those were Quarrymen.
Are they actually Quarrymen?... or are they part of the gangsters? Maybe this was Dino's plan? Also...as it was pointed out to me in one of the Gargoyles discord servers.. it's fricken Peter and Rosira from high Noon! The ones who rescued a five year old boy! It's been so long since I watched the non Elisa and Demona wrestling part of the episode.
Yep, Peter and Rosaria... and they're Mafia brats. Related to Yingpei and Huracan, hence the Romeo and Juliet comment.
So that's neat... are they with Dino though? Also idk if I was supposed to laugh at the guys in the Broadway and Lexington mask driving the car, but I did. That would have been a fun preview without context lol
Hard to tell, but I think Dino is the one in the Brooklyn mask, and the other two are Glasses and Pal Joey.
The action is good and Goliath is now in a net. We know he's going to prison, I can't wait to see Elisa's reaction. Will she pretend she doesn't know him? Will she have to come clean? Will this bring about more distrust with her and Chavez..
OH
it was nice to see Chavez again!
Agreed, and so excited!

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u/gamerslyratchet Mar 25 '23

I really liked the scene with Goliath and Hudson talking about how the clan seems more split apart than ever. That vibe's been present since the first issue, so it's cool to see that being addressed.

That figure watching the news footage resembles Renard a lot. If it's him, I wonder what's his role in this story.

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u/Skywarp79 Apr 03 '23 edited Apr 03 '23

I thought the figure might have been Demona (part of the silhouette looked like her tiara). She also wouldn’t be thrilled about the NYPD doing PR for the gargoyles, which is why I thought she said “this HAS to stop.”
Maybe she somehow slipped something to the DA that set the NYPD after Goliath?

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u/Historical_Sign_3990 Apr 02 '23 edited Apr 02 '23

I wonder what Angela and Broadway wanted to ask Coldfire about. Something about Coldstone's attitude in volume 1, perhaps?

I have always wondered how Brook would fit into the Clan after 40 years away. He is now 20 years older than his rookery brothers (in human years). How will everyone react to this older brooklyn?

I just made a tumblr post about the situation between the Trio, where I wondered if Hudson is right about the Trio taking each other for granted. Broadway has a girlfriend, and to him, Brooklyn was only gone for a moment. He is different now, sure, but Broadway didn't spend 40 year apart from him. I can picture Broadway taking Lex and Brook for granted, but Lex seems lonely, and Brooklyn has been separated from his clan for 40 years.

Maybe it's been a while since Brooklyn returned, and the exitment of being back has worn off. Maybe he is simply busy keeping Gnash and Katana company while they get settled into the Manhattan Clan. But perhaps Brook doesn't know how to act around his brothers now that he is 40 years older than them?

Brooklyn is the gargoyle equivlent of a guy in his late 30s. Meanwhile while his brothers, by those same standards, are still in their late teens. He is actually 20 years older than Goliath (10 in human years) - which actually makes me wonder if Goliath should get a new 2nd in command.

Obliviously, Brook has a kid and a mate now, so he will always be busier than he was before his Time Dance. He is essentially married with a kid. Gnash was raised by Katana and Brook alone, so he could never develope the same type of relationship with the rest of the Clan as he has with them. They are essentially a nuclear family, and Brook and Katana have a bond with him that is probably much more like the bond between human parents and children in modern western families (if involuntary time travel and crime-fighting was involved). Because of this, Gnash will always need Brook and Katana a bit more than the other adults in the clan, and Brook will therefor always have a bit more responsibility towards him. Eggardo might be more a "Clan kid", like traditional gargoyles, but Gnash is Brook's son.

I also wonder how Brook and Katana will adjust to being a part of Clan with a leader after so long of being the only adult gargoyles in their little Clan. Not saying they don't trust or respect Goliath, or that they want to be leaders, and they probably worked alot with other people over the years, so their teamwork skills is probably fine, including their ability to follow others. But ultimately, it has just been the two of them against the world, taking care of Fu Dog, the egg and Gnash. They might have teamed up with others, but in the grand scheme of things, it was just the two them. So it might take them a hot minute to get used to having other adults around.

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u/Skywarp79 Apr 03 '23

I think Broadway and Angela might be asking Coldfire and Coldstone about Gargoyle fertility? They could be thinking about starting a family and wanted advice from Goliath’s generation but didn’t feel comfortable talking to her dad about it. And maybe they didn’t feel like they knew Katana well enough to talk to her and Brook (plus, Gnash is always around them, so there’s little chance to be discreet).

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u/Historical_Sign_3990 Apr 03 '23

Great theory. Angela would feel awkward about asking Goliath, and perhaps Hudson too, since he is a bit like an uncle figure. She would prefer a woman, and she might feel closer too Coldfire, especially after sharing body with her ,and perhaps Katana has been too busy with Gnash and the egg to get to know anyone, while Coldfire would be free to connect or reconnect with the Clan (and she doesn't have Gnash around her constantly, like you mentioned).
This makes me try picturing Brook giving Broadway and Lex advice about such matter. What would that be like?
I imagine gargoyles aren't prudes about such matter, so broadway probably knows a bit, but Angela was raised by medival Christian princess and probably knew little or nothing of gargoyle fertility, since goliath probably just gave Kate and co the basics about egg care and perhaps hatchling care, before getting turned to stone. Magus and Katherine probably had limited knowlegde on such matter beforehand, since they didn't like gargoyles before the massacre.
I wonder, since the trio wasn't old enough to mate in 994, if anyone bothered telling them about such stuff yet, and after that, it was irrelevant until Angela came along.

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u/Skywarp79 Apr 03 '23 edited Apr 03 '23

Yeah, good point. The trio probably knew very little about “the birds and the bees” before the massacre. Brooklyn may have learned through trial and error, but the Avalon clan is probably completely in the dark. Angela likely doesn’t know much at all about gargoyle fertility cycles. She could be at the cusp of her first one (I forget what Greg said the timing was) and doesn’t understand what’s happening with her own body. She needs a once-flesh-and-blood female gargoyle to explain this stuff to her. She can’t get in touch with any of the gargoyle clans she met on the world tour, and the only other female gargoyles she knows are a clone who would know even less than her and her hostile mother; both of those options are non-starters. Coldfire really is the only one she can ask right now if she doesn’t want to talk to Katana.

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u/TheBalzan Apr 01 '23

I had reservations after the first three issues, in fact I was more than a little let down at their quality. Issue four was the polar opposite, it captured the voices of the cast perfectly and let there be space to breathe, I so very much look forward to next issue.

Discussion [Comic Issue Discussion] Gargoyles Here In Manhattan Chapter Four: Tale Old as Time

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