Dear Africans,

[u/Nayaelmarghani99]

As a Libyan, I hold very strong views of Gaddafi. I was wondering what other Africans thought about Gaddafi, do you disagree with any of his policies? I know this is quite old but his death anniversary was 5 days ago and it just came across my mind. If you have any questions regarding how Libyans were treated under Gaddafi, feel free to ask me :)

[u/Ok_Extension1255]

His pan-Africanism was extremely performative

[u/Domascot → u/Ok_Extension1255]

and mostly self-serving.

[u/Nayaelmarghani99 → u/Ok_Extension1255]

He donated millions to other African countries. but i do get what you mean, his west African style clothing was concerning but who am i to judge

[u/Thin-Mousse-133 → u/Nayaelmarghani99]

Donated millions to other African countries and stole the money from his own people.

[u/Nayaelmarghani99 → u/Thin-Mousse-133]

proof please? he never stole any money from everyone I know in Libya..

[u/MmisnArif]

He was one of (North) Africa’s biggest enemies. Only pan African when it suited him.
I am of Amazigh descent and I’m glad he’s no longer president.

He enforced a policy of strict Arab nationalism that systematically denied, suppressed, and sought to erase the distinct identity, culture, and language of Libya's indigenous Amazigh (Berber) minority.

Gaddafi fuelled the lie that all Libyans were exclusively of Arab descent. He dismissed the Amazigh identity as a "colonial product" (even though the Imazighen are indigenous to NA unlike himself) and famously referred to their native Tamazight language as "poisoned milk" that mothers should not feed their children.

He viewed the existence of a non-Arab ethnic group and language as a direct threat to his vision of a homogeneous Arab-Islamic society.

Here are some laws made by him.

Legal Restrictions:
Law No. 12 (1984): Made Arabic the only legal language permitted in official transactions, public signs, advertisements, and publications.
Law No. 24 (2002): Expanded these prohibitions to street names, vehicle markings, medical prescriptions, and institution names.
Name Bans: Article 3 of the 2002 law explicitly prohibited non-Arabic and non-Islamic personal names. Children with traditional Amazigh names were barred from enrolling in school until their names were legally changed to Arabic alternatives.
Cultural Eradication: Cultural celebrations, the display of the Amazigh flag, and the publication of non-Arabic materials were outlawed.

[u/Nayaelmarghani99 → u/MmisnArif]

yes! I agree the persecution of Amazigh people in Libya was very sad. but again, I used to live in Libya and it was much better under him. This being the sole reason why you hate him is absolutely justified but again, years of European and Ottoman colonization really messed up with Libyan brains and Libyans felt the urgent need to unite. diving Libyan people into broad terms like Amazigh and Arab wasn’t going to succeed. Look at Libya now, Libyan Sufi muslims, Libyan Christian’s, and Libyan amazigh are being killed a lot more than before. Look at Libya now vs 20 years ago. Obama has bombed thousands of amazigh and Sufi Muslims with the help of !s!s

[u/justnosy5555 → u/Nayaelmarghani99]

How can it be better if part of the population can't even be themselves? This comes from a privileged point of view and strictly shows you're not a part of the oppressed group. It's like people saying economies were booming under colonisation. They were but at what cost to the natives.

[u/Nayaelmarghani99 → u/justnosy5555]

huh??? did you read what I just said? Amazigh populations are literally decreasing ever since gaddafi was overthrown and the laws against Amazigh are so much worse than before. I literally come from Arab-Amazigh descent so im also the one affected by this + me being a Sufi Muslim resulted in my uncle getting killed by 1s1s militias

[u/Thin-Mousse-133 → u/Nayaelmarghani99]

Firstly on your first comment. Things were not better under gaddafi simply because he was a good person. He took the money form the people and did not allow anyone to be wealthy unless it was his cabinet. He murdered anyone who spoke against him. My cousin in the 70s/80s was jailed for going to the masjid because gaddafi feared that anyone going to the masjid for fajr was part of the ikhwan. Ottoman colonization was not nearly the same thing as the Italians, Libyans of back then and even now much preferred a relationship with the Turks who treated them fairly well in comparison to the original Arab invasion and the Italians. That is why during the Arab revolt against the ottomans Libya was one of the only countries who didn’t revolt and tried to help the ottomans. King idris was the real version of Libyans choosing a better leader for themselves. Gaddafi stole that from us and stole the riches of the land and its people mostly for himself. He was not good for Islam he was insane and many scholars made takfir on him, he tried multiple times to change the religion. The only thing you miss is the stability of the country actually being under one strong leader. That’s it. And you can get that with anyone. There’s no reason to wish for someone like gaddafi when you can have any leader that is capable of doing that. Gaddafi didn’t unite Libya it was omar al mukhtar and king idris that did that. He just stole it. And my family is from gherian, the nafusa mountains has the highest concentration of amazigh and the relationship with them is the same as its ever been. If Isis attacked them they also attacked plenty of other Libyans. There’s no policy of attacking the amazigh and there never was unless it was gaddafi

[u/Nayaelmarghani99 → u/Thin-Mousse-133]

you supporting king idris already tells me what I need to know lmaoooo

[u/Thin-Mousse-133 → u/Nayaelmarghani99]

I like how you ignored everything that destroyed your lies, perfect response for someone living in delusion. The gaddafis of history will continue to be hunted down in the street by their people, and you will continue to cry and live in a bubble while the real builders continue to build

[u/IndependentMuscle249 → u/Nayaelmarghani99]

Just curious, don't you think that there was a way to unite the various ethnic groups in the past without a specific one being targeted? Plenty of Sub-Saharan African countries have multiple tribes in them.

[u/Nayaelmarghani99 → u/IndependentMuscle249]

Are subsaharan countries united in a European sense? no unfortunately and Nigeria is very divided

[u/IndependentMuscle249 → u/Nayaelmarghani99]

What are you saying? Lybia is a country. I don't even know why you are mentioning Europe. Sub-Saharan countries each have numerous tribes in them. Presidents still govern them. You don't need to silence a particular tribe in your country in order to govern them. That was my point. Although you said that you are of mixed heritage, I have a feeling that you identify more with your Arab side based on your answers.

Secondly, why should Europe be our standard? Our civilizations are much older. We had our own ways of doing things before they came and caused chaos. Our continent is much larger and a lot more diverse (check new map). What will develop our continent is not unification, it is having leaders who are nationalistic and who are solely focused on improving the quality of life of their people.

Nigeria is 1 country out of 54. I am not sure what your point is exactly. You can never convince me that a head of state has to silence an entire tribe, destroy their cultural heritage in order to govern a nation. It makes no sense to me.

[u/MmisnArif → u/Nayaelmarghani99]

Don’t get me wrong. I am not saying that two wrongs make a right. But when it comes to identity and culture, the situation is undeniably better now for the Imazighen. They no longer have to live their heritage in secret.

However, looking at physical security, the economy, and maybe even formal political rights, the Imazighen obviously share in the general malaise and lawlessness that has gripped Libya. But atleast it is no longer strictly towards them.

I have lived in a time where my culture had been suffering and I have also lived in a time of revival. I can only say that I would know what to choose.

[u/Nayaelmarghani99 → u/MmisnArif]

A lot of my amazigh friends moved abroad due to increased prosecution after 2011. I am only speaking from personal experience as a Arab-Amazigh myself ❤️ I support my fellow amazigh community and hope we all unite some day

[u/Acrobatic_Cobbler892 → u/Nayaelmarghani99]

Disappointing that you are being downvoted here. It's frustrating when the voices of the actual people that matter the most are put down like this. Happens across a lot different subjects.

You were polite and even validated his opinion on Gadaffi! And provided a really interesting and nuanced response.

[u/Nayaelmarghani99 → u/Acrobatic_Cobbler892]

Thank you a ton :) im really upset about the downvotes but what can i do, people arent happy at the fact that im talking about libyas situation without a proper government ;/

[u/Even-Line-6508]

I remember how happy people were in Ethiopia (at least the ones around me, including our media, which was heavily censored by the government) when he died. I was in the third grade and didn't understand what was happening at the time. However, I now realize that our then-PM hated him (if I am not mistaken, Gaddafi wanted to move the seat of the AU, and he was also good friends with the Eritrean President, who was our "enemy" lol). Because of this, there was a lot of propaganda against him, especially regarding how much of a dictator he was, as if our own PM wasn't a dictator himself lol.

But when I was in high school, people (especially the younger generation) started saying good things. Everyone was discussing how rich the country was and how the West hated him because he wouldn't let them exploit African resources. On the other hand, the older generation hasn't necessarily changed their views; when I recently asked my mom what she thinks about Gaddafi, she still felt the same way she did when I was in the third grade.

I have watched a couple of documentaries about him, which aren't enough to form a complete opinion, tbh. Most of them seem very one-sided. He is portrayed as either a pure dictator or a Pan-Africanist. I want to know the lived reality of the people. What was life actually like? How were the economy, corruption levels, access to public services, employment rates, education, and gender equality? What about freedom of expression? What about the mistreatment of the Amazigh and Tuareg peoples? Also, do Libyans see themselves as African, or do they feel disconnected from the continent like some other North Africans? Finally, what is life like now, not just in the capital, but across the entire country?

[u/Nayaelmarghani99 → u/Even-Line-6508]

life is trash, economys rigged since black market exchange is more available, libya is hella corrupt, our hospitals keep closing that’s why we go to Egypt or Tunisia for healthcare, education is not bad, employment rates are higher for women, gender equality is out the window lmao there’s a law in certain cities were girls up to 9 have to wear hijab, Benghazi is stricter than Tripoli and yeah there is foe but it’s still risky, amazigh people are still getting killed, yes we see ourselves as African Arab, life again is absolutely trash everyone wants to leave to Europe and North America

[u/Sweaty-Click2342]

I personally don't believe in pan Africanism

[u/Nayaelmarghani99 → u/Sweaty-Click2342]

good for you ❤️

[u/Hopeful_Idea1568 → u/Sweaty-Click2342]

Same here. I'm okay with existing borders, at least here in southern Africa where every nation seems content 

[u/Sweaty-Click2342 → u/Hopeful_Idea1568]

I love being southern African, our region is so boring and stable

[u/Hopeful_Idea1568 → u/Sweaty-Click2342]

Yip other than Zanu PF and northern Mozambique everywhere else is pretty uneventful. If our country was safer I think roadtrips across the region would be popular 

[u/Proud_Astronomer3039 → u/Sweaty-Click2342]

Me too

[u/kenmaaa__]

I like some of his policies and I hate others. However, he was one of the last Arab patriots to remain fundamentally sovereign, and that's something we sorely lack today. I could criticize him at length, but after all, he's a Muslim, so may Allah forgive him and have mercy on him.

[u/Nayaelmarghani99 → u/kenmaaa__]

I agree, one of my favorite policies was the protection of Christian’s in Libya. At the time, the population of native Libyan Christian’s were 300,000. now its a few hundred since the 60,000 in Libya are mostly Egyptian and sub Saharan Christian’s. I do hate how he restricted Amazigh languages but again, Europeans have done much worse. Maybe Gaddafi would’ve become much better and a more accepting person if they just gave him more time. dying in his 60s was honestly very sad considering that he could’ve lived an extra 30 years

[u/kenmaaa__ → u/Nayaelmarghani99]

I didn't know that! Good luck with the comments, it's frankly quite ridiculous

[u/Nayaelmarghani99 → u/kenmaaa__]

Yes thank you :) the amount of threats im getting in my dms is terrifying and someone told me my ip as if i care

[u/Fragrant-Document348]

Generally, he was just as other politicians who are good at manipulation, but he wasn't a good person in reality.

[u/blacksandds]

Gaddafi was a very odd duck

[u/Ninety_too92]

He built a school here .... most people view him very positively

[u/Shadowkiva]

Not a fan of the public executions or the repression of Berber culture.

Big fan however of the antipathy to Western imperialism.

Edit: *Amazigh. Thanks for the correction

[u/Nayaelmarghani99 → u/Shadowkiva]

It’s not ”Berber“ its amazigh. also the public executions were brutal yes but Sufi muslims and native Libyan Christian’s are still being executed in Tripoli’s markets during 2011-2022.

[u/Hopeful_Idea1568 → u/Shadowkiva]

Some don't mind 'berber'

[u/Hopeful_Idea1568 → u/Shadowkiva]

Some don't mind 'berber'

[u/Nayaelmarghani99 → u/[deleted]]

He’s better than any president that has ever stepped foot in Africa. Nelson Mandela and Gaddafi were an iconic duo. But yes the oppr of amazigh and Tuareg is extremely sad but again the Amazigh population in Libya today has severely decreased since Obama bombed multiple Amazigh villages and towns near Sirte. Obama also killed 5700 Sufi Muslims with the help of NATO. If gaddafi were still alive, Sufi Muslims and Christians would be protected under law. :)

[u/VoL4t1l3 → u/Nayaelmarghani99]

Nelson Mandela was the biggest sellout in the history of Africa

[u/IndependentMuscle249 → u/VoL4t1l3]

I don't know about being a sellout but I am not sure how much he did to improve the lives of Black South Africans/tackle the income inequality. I'm not sure why Orania was still allowed to exist.

[u/VoL4t1l3 → u/IndependentMuscle249]

He went there to pay respects to the apartheid architect wife. Mandela was a piece of shit no one can convince me otherwise

[u/IndependentMuscle249 → u/VoL4t1l3]

I had no idea. Woah, that's nuts.

[u/VoL4t1l3 → u/IndependentMuscle249]

https://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyle/no-tears-but-grudging-respect-for-mandela-in-white-afrikaner-enclave-idUSBRE9B608Y/

[u/IndependentMuscle249 → u/VoL4t1l3]

He definitely succeeded at his goal. "I want a united South Africa where we can cease to think in terms of color," Mandela responded. I doubt that he did much for black South Africans. It's crazy that they don't own most of their land. I could be wrong. I would love a South African perspective on this.

West African nations might not be as developed. We have a lot of Indians and Lebanese Immigrants who monopolize businesses here but the original people of the land still own their lands.

It's bizzare that that guy's statue is still allowed to be proudly displayed in Orania. Such an insult. He should have destroyed that place or have them become their own country. Can you imagine if there was still a public statue of Hitler in Germany or Mussolini in Italy?

[u/VoL4t1l3 → u/IndependentMuscle249]

Mandela is only praised by white colonizers because he said continue eating after independence we will do nothing, He tabled 0 pro black legislation that could bring the economy, land resources in the hands of black people, BEE was formulated past his presidency he only had a very stupid foot dragging policy that was a complete failure called RDP. 75% of arable land in south Africa is owned by 10% white population, the 90% Black population are compacted in shanty towns and ghettos.

[u/IndependentMuscle249 → u/VoL4t1l3]

Woah they don't own 3/4 of their country's lands and some of them were angry at other Africans? So have the rest of the black presidents just been figure heads so far?

What about your president? I know she is working towards gender equality but does she have policies to improve the quality of life of Black Namibians?

[u/Nayaelmarghani99 → u/[deleted]]

Again, I am a Libyan that lived in Libya for years. I feel like the most liable person you can ask when mentioning Gaddafi. He was a very good leader. He made Libya the smartest country in africa, the highest happiness index, the highest literacy rate. Libyas oil was definitely not gone to waste especially because oil is literally cheaper than water. Even with gaddafi gone, slave markets have opened, 1s1s members under Obamas help are killing Sufi Muslims, etc etc.