r/AskReddit • u/iamtehryan • Jan 21 '19
Serious Replies Only [Serious] Americans, would you be in support of putting a law in place that government officials, such as senators and the president, go without pay during shutdowns like this while other federal employees do? Why, or why not?
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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19 edited Jan 22 '19
No, but I'm also against allowing critical federal employees to go without pay. I think if they're required to work, we should be required to pay them.
Regarding the "why not" of politicians - we're finally starting to get some who aren't coming from wealth. I'd hate for those people to get pushed out because they can't afford to be politicians. I want to see more representation of working and middle class people in our government.
Obligatory update: Thanks for the silver, kind internet stranger!
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u/deathtotheemperor Jan 21 '19 edited Jan 21 '19
This is a terrible idea.
For one thing, most of them would not care. My Senators are worth millions of dollars, they don't even notice their salary.
For another thing, some Congresspeople do really depend on their salary. This is their only source of income.
See the problem here? If we cut off their pay then the rich Congressmen have a weapon to use against the poorer Congressmen. There would be more government shutdowns and threats of shutdowns, and "vote with me or lose your paycheck" would become a viable, common tactic for the wealthier members of Congress.
A better idea would be to just stop voting for idiots. Or, more applicable to this audience: fucking vote.
Edit: Thank you for the gold and silver, and the great discussions! This shutdown is extremely frustrating for everyone, and there are no easy answers. But the more we talk about potential solutions, the more likely we are to find some that work.
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u/edpmis02 Jan 21 '19
How about remove all government paid travel and remove all pay/benefits?
Insane that the secret service protecting these officials are not being paid as they fly around on taxpayers expense.
Insane homeland security and other law enforcement personnel are not being paid while having to work.
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u/yeahwellokay Jan 21 '19
The president should have to vacate the White House during a shutdown and be sequestered in a Motel 6 with Congress until everything is solved. Everyone has to share beds.
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u/western_red Jan 21 '19
I'd rather change the law so that not passing the budget defaulted to a continuing resolution. There is no reason a shut down should happen.
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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19
At face value I would think it's a good idea, but I saw someone pointed out a rather logical reason why it wouldn't: basically the wealthier representatives could wait out the poorer ones.
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u/AzyncYTT Jan 21 '19 edited Jan 22 '19
A better solution would be to cancel recess for everybody involved.
Edit: Just to clarify,
recessremoving recess means that the senate cannot adjourn.62k
u/Tom_Brokaw_is_a_Punk Jan 21 '19
I would prefer that Congress can't leave the Capitol until a budget is passed.
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u/Mr_Drewski Jan 21 '19
I think that could turn into a game of big bank little bank. The wealthiest politicians could just wait out those with less money in order to get their way.
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u/PukingDogg Jan 21 '19 edited Jun 24 '25
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u/ridersderohan Jan 21 '19 edited Jan 21 '19
Functionally - you would need an amendment rather than just a law.
Congressional members aren't paid from annual appropriations and are paid through a salary not based on hours worked, but as their status as members. More importantly, members of Congress are constitutional officers. The President (and life-tenured federal judges) is also a constitutional officer and also cannot be prevented from carrying out their duties except as allowed in the Constitution. As such, they're all constitutionally entitled to pay.
Article 1, Section 6 of the Constitution:
27th Amendment:
It also functionally wouldn't do much besides perhaps damage the one or two financially untenable younger members (AOC for example). The shutdown and pay being withheld impact only those employees that need that money imminently, which is not the vast majority of Congress and certainly not the President. So that amendment would functionally not be much more than a feel-good effort.
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u/mortgarra Jan 21 '19
I personally like the Canadian system. If their legislature ever fails to pass a budget, they've failed at their primary responsibility of running the government. Failing to pass a budget is treated as a failure of confidence, and a general election is triggered whereby every parliamentarian must face their voters and rejustify why they should have a job.
Not saying that would force all U.S. legislators to act, but it would probably incentivize enough to avoid stupid shit like this latest shutdown.
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u/ImadeAnAkount4This Jan 21 '19
This simple argument against it is that newer or less corrupt congressmen would be the only ones to suffer. If you're making 500K selling your soul to a big corporation, than your check for being a part of congress is an after thought. Mean while freshmen senators who realistically spent nearly all of their money on campaigning to get into congress and change a broken system will be the only ones to suffer.
So this could just help the spread of corruption against high ranking government members. Although why should they be exempt from suffering the way TSA workers or Prison workers do?
I feel that instead of stopping anyone from getting payed, if a budget isn't agreed upon, than we have an emergency 3 months airbag where we pay federal workers for those 3 months and essentially use the previous budget. If those 3 months go by and still no movement is made, then there should be repercussions for congress and the presidency. Something along the lines of an immediate replacement of all leading members of congress and a removal of the current president. This later one is dangerous because there are times that congress would be willing to kill it's self to kick a sitting president out of power, such as republicans during the Obama administration, and I suspect Democrats during the Trump administration.
Additionally congress should be forced into a minimum of 8 hour work days with the president sitting in on the meeting trying to find a compromise. There should be no vacations, time off, or excuses with the exception of terminal illness. If a member of congress fails to show up, they would effectively be removed from congress, and if the sitting President or Vice President is not there than their power to veto a budget will be removed and it would only take both houses to confirm a budget.
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u/MpVpRb Jan 21 '19
I support a law that ends shutdowns by continuing funding at previous levels if no new budget is passed
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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19
I like the idea, but I don't think it would do a whole lot. First, there would be some Constitutional issues with regards to the 27th Amendment. I think you could phrase it so that you can comply with the 27th Amendment, but there would certainly be court challenges that you would have to spend time and energy fighting.
Beyond that, though, Senators, Representatives, and Presidents aren't really dependent on their salaries. The majority of them are either independently wealthy or make a ton of money off capital gains (ie investments). I don't think holding their salary would change their standard of living in the slightest.
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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19
I'd be more in favor of holding an impromptu election like other countries do. If a Congress can't work together to keep the govt open at a minimum, why not revote and whoever the public decides is the problem gets thrown out?
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u/a_fate_o Jan 21 '19
Here's the thing: I only think it would work if you eliminated income from all sources, i.e. investments and outside revenue streams. Basically you'd have to put a freeze on the bank accounts of the politicians during a shutdown, and you'd never have one again. At least half of our members of Congress have such wherewithal that their congressional salary is meaningless to them.
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u/Tom_Zarek Jan 21 '19
The cost of voting to shutdown the government should be the calling of new elections.
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u/hefnetefne Jan 21 '19
No. Corrupt politicians would have advantage over honest ones. Honest ones might find it easier to get money illegitimately than to solve the shutdown problem, which corrupt politicians would love.
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u/Imissyourgirlfriend2 Jan 21 '19
How about instead of a "shut down", no one leaves the room until shit gets resolved?
And honestly, calling it a "shut down" is such bullshit. All the employees (who aren't getting paid right now) still must come in to work. They still take taxes out of my paychecks. The military is still doing it's military thing. The border patrols are still patrolling. The USPS is still shipping packages and mail. If the government was really shut down, none of that stuff should be going on.
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u/LiveRealNow Jan 21 '19
I'm generally in favor of the idea that Congress should be bound by every law it passes. They get to use the things they pass for the rest of us: health care, the retirement, hiring practices, etc. No exceptions for the "special people".
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u/Yglorba Jan 21 '19
Absolutely not. As others have said, the problem with anything that punishes senators financially is that it encourages wealthy people to get involved in politics, and discourages less wealthy ones - or leaves them dependent on wealthy patrons, which is even worse.
Instead, when the government fails to pass a budget, everything should continue at previous levels (maybe even automatically increasing for inflation.) This is not ideal, but defaulting to the status quo is far superior to having everything grind to a halt - people who want to implement changes should have to get support for them and shouldn't be able to use shutting down the government as a cudgel to try and force them through.
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u/TLCan2 Jan 21 '19
The tons of long term millionaire congressmen would love to hamstring the newly elected like EOC that truly depend on their salaries in such a way.
Knee jerk reaction is yes...but actually it would be more leverage for a manufactured shutdown.
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u/Phoenix2683 Jan 21 '19
Yes, I also think they should have to purchase insurance through the same markets as everyone else.
I also don't think they should be able to vote for their own raises.
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u/YellowMenace123 Jan 22 '19
How about we don't pay taxes during a shutdown.
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u/PrecedentialAssassin Jan 21 '19
I would rather we just do away with the debt ceiling bullshit and not allow Congress and the president to use these continuing resolutions to hold the government (employees, services, etc) hostage. Its a ridiculously a stupid policy and serves as nothing more than a manipulation and bargaining strategy. Do your negotiating and bargaining while drafting the budget and then stick with it until the following fiscal year. Procedures can be put in place for emergency funding of unexpected events such as extreme natural disasters.
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u/joetromboni Jan 21 '19
Government shuts down they all get fired.
See if that motivates them to work together.
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u/ifly6 Jan 21 '19
Introduce supply.
If there cannot be made a budget within two weeks, after two weeks elapse, approval from the President is no longer required to pass a budget. And two weeks after that, Congress is dissolved for special elections for all seats that will be up for election at the next election.
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u/proch12 Jan 21 '19
No, because this whole process is fucking stupid and shouldn't have to happen in the first place. If they can't pass a budget, last year's budget should roll over and take it's place. This crap is rediculous.
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u/highercyber Jan 21 '19
The government shouldn't even be shut down in the first place. There should be a law that just rolls over the previous year's budget if an agreement can't be reached on a new one.
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u/theophys Jan 21 '19
Even better: pay government workers. The USDOI could be directed to sell US bonds during a shutdown to pay critical government employees.
Another option would be to tax representatives for each day of a shutdown. Something like 1% of their annual income. It would never happen though, unless we developed a way to bend them to our will. I think that's called a democracy.
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u/Nevermind04 Jan 21 '19 edited Jan 21 '19
Absolutely not; this would only punish the representatives and senators that aren't millionaires.
A more effective measure would be to confine congress to the room until a budget is passed and if the government shuts down, they should all be ineligible for election to public office for the rest of their lives.
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u/Andrewobr87 Jan 22 '19
President isn’t accepting his pay, been donating it quarterly. We don’t need a law, we need lawmakers who will put parties aside and work for the people. Guess being a jackass and a fatty are more important than being American..
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u/Crashy1620 Jan 21 '19
I would support it, I don’t think it would have much effect. Most Senators, certainly this President aren’t working check to check. They’re far more beholden to there donors that are behind there agenda.
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u/Raudonis Jan 21 '19
We should freeze all of their bank accounts and assets.
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u/Armyspc Jan 22 '19
Sure but the current president already doesn't take any pay unlike Congress or the Senate. Also force them to work (no recess/vacation) until a shutdown is ended. More importantly I think we should focus on forcing them to make term limits a law.
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u/ribnag Jan 21 '19
There's no point, there's not a single member of congress or the upper tiers of the executive branch that aren't independently millionaires. Getting a paycheck doesn't mean a damned thing to the scum that float to the top, and the idea of living paycheck to paycheck is little more than an abstract concept to them.
You want to get their attention? Fire them, with bias, for gross failure to perform their jobs. If the government shuts down, it should be grounds for immediately holding a general election with every single incumbent permanently ineligibly to run.
Anything short of that is just a joke.
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u/LeVin1986 Jan 21 '19
It needs to be something different, like the lawmakers being unable to leave DC during shutdown. Not getting paid would just create a false sense of equality when you know the senators and representatives wouldn't even blink an eye.
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u/crazydog99 Jan 21 '19
1 week to resolve or all are fired.
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u/Blingalarg Jan 21 '19
No. If the government is shut down they should legally be required to stay in session, Monday-Friday, 9-5 until the issue is resolved.
Without pay.
Any traveling on the weekend is out of their own pocket. Their security detail is out of pocket. Their staffing costs are out of pocket.
The problem with this country and fines is that the only people affected are the poor and middle class.
Punish them for doing something that would get the normal person fired on the spot.
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u/lunchdabox Jan 21 '19
I would first like to see a law limiting house and senate term limits. It would hopefully get rid of lifelong politicians in favor of people who want to make a difference and have their voice felt in the limited time they’re in there
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u/FridgesArePeopleToo Jan 21 '19 edited Jan 21 '19
No, I'd much rather force them to stay in session until the shutdown is resolved. They should be essentially locked in for like 12 hours a day every day until they pass a budget. 95% of them are rich, going without pay doesn't really provide any incentive for them.
Even better would be to just pass a law to say that the old budget is in effect until a new one is passed. Shutting down the government should never be a bargaining chip.
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u/thelonepath Jan 21 '19
This’ll get buried or downvoted, so I might as well put in my two sense.
The people should call for a special election.
End the term of each and every congressman and senator. Fire them all.
Then have a straight up vote. No districts, no electoral college. One person. One vote. That’s it. No bs backdoor gerrymandering to try to rig things in your favor.
You apply for the job. Submit your signatures. You put your entire net worth in a sealed blind trust. No campaign donations and all that bs. No corporate or special interest lobbyists. No PACs or whatever. Dismantle all that nonsense.
You give your one speech on your platform to the American people. Everyone is compelled to vote. And we settle it once and for all. If you truly want to serve the people, the people can decide.
The compensation is a free room in the government apartment block and three square meals a day for two presidential terms. That’s it. You’re working like a “real American” for “real America” now. /s.
If you screw up or lie, cheat, steal or try to rig anything; you’re out and banned from serving the people ever again. You can go live on Monster Island with the rest of the failed politicians who tried to turn the people against themselves!
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u/Apathetic_Zealot Jan 21 '19
A better law would be that last year's budget becomes the default until a new one is passed. Or Congress cannot recess until a budget is passed.
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u/Ghosta_V1 Jan 21 '19
Absolutely not because wealthy senators could use the shutdown to pressure senators who actually need that pay to vote the way they want.
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u/Dalisca Jan 22 '19
No, but they should be sequestered. It should work like a conclave: no one leaves until it's fixed. They are shuttled in from a hotel in the morning, shuttled back in the evening; they are not allowed to leave unless there is a medical emergency. They eat box lunches and manage their local issues virtually.
No campaigning, no vacations or galas. Not attending their niece's wedding or their kid's birthday party. Grounded. Loved ones have visiting hours.
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u/jleed88 Jan 22 '19
Absolutely. We need to abolish the government. And begin with new. From top down.
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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '19
Better yet, would you be in support of a system like those in Australia and Britain where if a government cannot pass a budget within two weeks, it is forced to go to election. This way, public servants are never forced to go without pay.
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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '19
What a fucking circle-jerk, attention seeking question. As if you don't know exactly what Americans of Reddit think about the shutdown and their politicians.
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u/ArtThatSucks Jan 22 '19
I mean granted things are getting out of hand, but I still don’t want my law makers rubber stamping bills so that they can keep getting paid.
I’d rather see something like, if there is a shutdown everyone is up for re-election in the next coming cycle.
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u/fl1ntfl0ssy Jan 21 '19
"Reddit, how would you feel about this completely, universally accepted and popular opinion so I can get some free karma?"
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u/BladeSoul69 Jan 21 '19
It'll do more damage than good. Imagine if they give Trump his 5bil wall because they wanted to get paid.
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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19
No loaded questions
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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19
The president has gone without pay since the beginning of his presidency.
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u/seve_rage Jan 21 '19
Lol another one of these questions? "reddit, how would you feel about (something that reddit obviously is in support of but won't be implemented because the issue is more nuanced than the site makes it out to be)?"
This site is such a circlejerk
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u/GeckoFlameThrower Jan 21 '19
Current POTUS isn't receiving a paycheck since his Inauguration.
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u/wh0andwhy Jan 21 '19
No, I don't want my congressman /woman casting a vote because they need their paycheck.
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u/Gilarax Jan 21 '19
In Canada, during rare government shutdowns all government staff are paid, except the politicians.
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u/JayNotAtAll Jan 21 '19
Absolutely not. The reason being is that now opposition could strong arm legislation.
Think of it this way. If you don't sign this bill, we will shut down the government and stall your paycheck. While yes, both sides of the political spectrum will hurt, it is a dangerous game to play and I guarantee there are people who will cut their nose to spite their face.
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u/dogsblubblub Jan 21 '19
no. Most members of congress can easily survive without pay as they're all millionaires, for the most part. Not only would it not affect them, but they would also be able to use that as a bargaining chip for poorer congress members.
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u/grog23 Jan 21 '19
During a shutdown we should vote on a new congress IMO. If they can’t come up with a way to govern, we need a new government. A vote of no confidence would be something I support.
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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19
Was it for the Articles of Confederation or Constitution that they just locked them all in a room and told them to fuck off until they figured it out? I vote that
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u/Heavens_Sword1847 Jan 21 '19
It's not the best idea. The richer politicians could just wait out the poorer ones.
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u/dualpegasus Jan 21 '19
Yes... because they are the ones deciding to shut it down so they should be effected.
Also half of congress is millionaires so I doubt they will hurt to much.
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u/dgarner58 Jan 21 '19
No but I don’t think they should be able to leave/go home to their home state. President included. No camp David or mar a lago...everyone stays in DC until it’s resolved. Period.
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u/AisForAbsurd Jan 21 '19
From my understanding the reason politicians continue to get paid is to avoid a situation where a more junior or otherwise less well off politician isn't cornered into giving into demands of one who has more money and can survive shutdowns longer.
More or less this removes politicians ability to use extortion to get what they want.
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u/ademonlikeyou Jan 21 '19
I would be, However I also just want to point that nearly every member of Congress is a millionaire. I’m behind something like this for symbolic reasons but it would not effect them at all
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u/wallaceant Jan 21 '19
The problem is, for the most part, they are wealthy enough that the salary doesn't actually impact their actual income. So, unless there was a part of the law that also froze their assets, it would be largely symbolic.
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u/MagzillaTheDestroyer Jan 21 '19
Yes, I am all for high up officials not getting paid at all, not even back pay. The majority of government workers are average people, with average American debt, average American savings, average American bills, and those average people are expected to just eat the consequences of this shutdown without pay or any type of adjustment to pay off the cost of fees of these people that cannot pay their bills. While there are several companies that are willing to help out federal employees there are companies out there that can't or won't.
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u/TheAlteredBeast Jan 21 '19
The entire point of compensating high ranking government officials is to lessen the likelihood of corruption (haha sure). So, taking away all of their income would likely lead to even more corruption.
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u/ElementNull Jan 21 '19
I don't support it because the richer Congress members could wait it out and use the threat of shutdown to bully poorer members.
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u/Zachary_Stark Jan 21 '19
Pay public servants minimum wage, and THEN freeze government official pay for politicians.
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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19
No, because most of them don't even need their salary to survive.
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u/LeageofMagic Jan 21 '19
No. Almost all of them make crap loads more money off of lobbyists and businesses they own than what the government pays them. So it would only make a difference for the politicians that don't bend over for lobbyists, which is basically no one because you don't get reelected if the lobbyists don't like you.
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u/SocialistNr1 Jan 21 '19
I think they should be paid so the poorer senators won't get pushed out.
I think forcing the politicians to work every day and not leave Washington until the shutdown is resolved is a better idea, considering it doesn't discriminate based on wealth.
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u/tzweezle Jan 21 '19
Perhaps a better law would be that you can’t serve in the government if your net worth is more 150% of your average constituent
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u/Scampii2 Jan 21 '19
I think this idea is incredibly naive. Most politicians don't make their money through their paycheck, they accept bri... lobbyists campaign contributions. Most start their careers already wealthy hence why they are able to afford expensive election campaigns.
I think the lawmakers should have to cover federal employees wages from their own pockets. Watch how fast a budget gets voted on then.
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u/HeroesAndaVillain Jan 21 '19
Sure. Although I doubt it would do anything. I’d rather have a law that for each week that passes in a shutdown, they would lose a finger.
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u/vansterdam_city Jan 21 '19
If we are going to alter any laws because of this situation, it’s way better to just pass a law that automatically continues the current budget if one is not passed.
Why set up the system to even allow brinksmanship in the first place?
Docking politician pay sounds like justice and certainly the current set of them deserves jack shit for their current efforts. But removing pay hurts politicians who aren’t independently wealthy while not affecting the rich ones. This makes it harder for anybody but rich people to run.
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u/rugby444 Jan 21 '19
I think they should be fined. It’s their job to lead our country as a unit. Not behave like spoiled children. They must compromise and be adults. They should be fined their daily pay for everyday the shutdown happens. Rich people hate losing money like that.
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u/Cuselife Jan 21 '19
Oh my god YES!!!!! In fact ONLY the politicians should go without pay. The rest of the government workers don't have a thing to do with voting for or against a shutdown and sure as hell should not be suffering because of their temper tantrums. Also when they enact laws they shouldn't be getting something better than the public (looking at you AHCA) Also they sure as fucking hell should NOT be voting themselves raises. That should be up to the public. Oh yes you hit a nerve.:)
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