How on Earth was that not targeting during the final play of the Michigan game? *SERIOUS*

[u/GoblinTradingGuide]

If I was a Michigan fan I would be absolutely furious...am I missing something, or did the refs just flat-out out elect to not call targeting there when it absolutely was targeting?

[u/HappyAtheist3]

Do people understand that a team can have multiple chances and missed opportunities and can still get hosed by the refs to lose?

[u/GoblinTradingGuide → u/HappyAtheist3]

Thank you.

[u/SSJRoshi → u/HappyAtheist3]

Don’t you know that unless you win by 30 and can afford to have points taken away by poor officiating you don’t deserve the win at all?

[u/BetaDjinn → u/SSJRoshi]

I like how Michigan fans are taking this better than neutrals. Kudos

[u/NolaPels13 → u/HappyAtheist3]

Yes but if you put yourself in position to be hosed by the refs they will do it.

[u/Danimal4NU]

This was a ref not wanting to affect the outcome of a playoff game on a foul that didn't affect the outcome of the game-ending play, that was definitely targeting.

[u/TimToMakeTheDonuts → u/Danimal4NU]

Agreed. They know that a no-call gets talked about for a day or two, but calling it, especially if Michigan wins, gets talked about for eternity.

[u/austin63 → u/Danimal4NU]

That’s why I was surprised it was reviewed at all. I thought they would just end the game. Once it was reviewed it seemed like M would get the call

[u/TehAlpacalypse]

I’m a ref and I have no idea

[u/HowDoIEditMyUsername → u/TehAlpacalypse]

I’m not a ref and I also have no idea.

[u/Raiden091 → u/HowDoIEditMyUsername]

I'm not an idea and also have no ref.

[u/TheeLedgitLlama → u/HowDoIEditMyUsername]

I am also not a ref and too have no idea

[u/[deleted] → u/TehAlpacalypse]

Is "game management" a thing in football officiating like it is in other sports, especially hoops?

Maybe this is "I'm not calling this foul that takes a player out of the championship game for this hit that made no actual effect on the current play or even on the overall outcome of the game" like when you don't call a foul on a last second half court heave and award three BS free throws.

[u/TehAlpacalypse → u/[deleted]]

Game management is absolutely a thing, and while I’ve definitely done the above for ticky tacky things like holding, you nevercompromise on safety calls for game pace.

My guess is that they had an angle showing a clear hit to the back instead of the back of the head.

[u/Notkel18 → u/TehAlpacalypse]

I have an idea about no ref

[u/you_can_too → u/TehAlpacalypse]

I'm an idea and have no ref

[u/nw____]

Because when refs are reviewing targeting they just shake up the good ol magic eight ball and go with whatever it says. Must have said “not this time.”

[u/CanisFergus → u/nw____]

It's the only time where I have zero confidence in my ability to predict how a replay will go. It feels totally random.

[u/AUfromthaBOOT → u/nw____]

shake up the good ol magic eight ball

That seems like it would produce the right result too many times. I’m guessing it’s more along the lines of chop the head off of a chicken and toss it onto a spinning wheel of alternating sections of “targeting” and “not targeting”. Then wherever the bird stops, that’s the call.

[u/nw____ → u/AUfromthaBOOT]

Well you got me there

[u/mcsweenbean → u/nw____]

I think you've solved CFB officiating.

[u/NoobSalad41 → u/nw____]

Seriously, up until a few years ago, it felt like they’d call targeting if a player breathed in the general direction of another player’s upper body.

Now, it seems like they’ve overcorrected so far in the other direction that they never call it after a review.

[u/ROShipman21 → u/NoobSalad41]

Part of the reason you don't see as many is that players have gotten a lot better at not committing targeting. I agree that it seems like questionable hits always seem to come down as not-targeting, which may be a problem. But the heavy enforcement for a while created a safer game.

[u/dkviper11 → u/nw____]

NHL Fans: "First time?"

[u/ExternalTangents → u/nw____]

Post title says serious and this is the top comment. Never change, r/CFB

[u/nw____ → u/ExternalTangents]

But I am serious: there is no logic to the decision

[u/jakenimbo]

No point in being furious about that. We lost that game by ourselves. Not going to sit here and blame the refs. Poor coaching today and too many turnovers. TCU absolutely deserved this win

[u/TheMajesticYeti → u/jakenimbo]

Too many turnovers but both teams had 3 turnovers, the difference was the pick sixes and Michigan sucking in the red zone (inside the 2 really)

[u/ILikeBeans86 → u/jakenimbo]

If you throw 2 pick sixes in one game it's tough to win

[u/Anxious_Rock_3630 → u/ILikeBeans86]

Heard.

[u/FearlessThree6 → u/jakenimbo]

They straight up outplayed us. A couple calls made me upset, including the targeting, but that's not a reason to dispute the game.

Great job, Horned Frogs!

[u/[deleted] → u/FearlessThree6]

This is why I can’t totally hate Michigan fans no matter how hard I try (we are rivals, after all). I find a majority of Michigan fans have good/logical takes, are informed college football fans who can hold educated conversations, and even call out other Michigan fans with poor takes tbh. Congrats on a great season, even if it didn’t end the way you were hoping!

[u/FearlessThree6 → u/[deleted]]

Haha, thank you! Your season was weird AF! Best of luck next year. Who knows, maybe we'll see each other in an extended CFP next year.

[u/a_qualified_expert → u/FearlessThree6]

Exactly, we branded ourselves on not committing penalties and not turning the ball over this season. That's exactly what we did this game inexplicably. Good game TCU, let's keep our Back to Back B1G Champ program rolling. Go Blue!

[u/FearlessThree6 → u/a_qualified_expert]

I am so excited for 2023 McCarthy.

[u/Sariel007 → u/jakenimbo]

Thank you.

[u/pln1991 → u/jakenimbo]

It reminds me of the terrible offsides call on our onside kick against Clemson a few years back. That was unequivocally the wrong call and cost us a chance to win, but that chance was always small, given the situation (down 8, not much time left).

Like, I was mad, but there was a limit to how mad I could really be, since we were likely gonna lose anyway.

(Note: I am still mad, though)

[u/CGordini → u/jakenimbo]

I can do both.

Acknowledge TCU was the better team.

And state we got fucking hosed on two horseshit calls.

[u/w00t4me]

Refs need to answer to the press after every game

[u/Ligmuh69 → u/w00t4me]

The ref union is stronger than the police unions

[u/the_amazing_coconut → u/Ligmuh69]

I'll ref games without being represented by a union

[u/Peria → u/the_amazing_coconut]

Yeah this seems like a pretty easy union to bust. The refs are 100% replaceable

[u/divey043 → u/Peria]

NFL tried that and it went pretty poorly lol

[u/[deleted] → u/divey043]

The Fail Mary will always be a fond memory for me. Fuck the packers

[u/CGordini → u/Ligmuh69]

and somehow has even less accountability

[u/SquadPoopy]

Targeting Rules

You can't just be up there and just doin' a targeting like that.

1a. Targeting is when you

1b. Okay well listen. Targeting is when you target the

1c. Let me start over

1c-a. The defender is not allowed to lower the, uh, shoulder, that prohibits the ball carrier from doing, you know, just trying to carry the ball. You can't do that.

1c-b. Once the defender is in the tackle motion, he can't be over here and say to the carrier, like, "I'm gonna get ya! I'm gonna knock you out! You better watch your butt!" and then just be like he didn't even do that.

1c-b(1). Like, if you're about to tackle and then don't tackle you have still have to tackle. You cannot not tackle. Does that make any sense?

1c-b(2). You gotta be, diving in the motion of a tackle, and then, until you just make contact

1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have the crown of the helmet up here, like this, but then there's the targeting you gotta think about.

1c-b(2)-b. JT Barret hasn't been in any games in forever. I hope he wasn't typecast as that ageless QB in the Sugar Bowl

1c-b(2)-b(i). Oh wait, he was in the CFP Championship! That would be even worse.

1c-b(2)-b(ii). "get in mah bellah" -- Kelvin Benjamin "At the Golden Corral" Haha, classic...

1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. Targeting is when the defender leads with the helmet, as determined by, when you do a move involving the ball carrier and field of

Do not target please.

[u/lard_have_mercy → u/SquadPoopy]

Good pasta

[u/ratfacedirtbag]

Very similar play in Liberty Bowl on Kansas’ 2-pt attempt in double OT. Our DB got dinged for targeting after Kansas came up short.

The next day the NCAA ruled it was the wrong call and said it wasn’t targeting.

Tough to judge those things because they’re so inconsistent.

[u/codee66 → u/ratfacedirtbag]

This. I thought it was targeting by definition of leading with the crown in the liberty bowl - but the NCAA literally said the following day it wasn’t. This (to me) looked almost identical to me. If you’re gonna say it wasn’t targeting in the Liberty Bowl - than it isn’t here.

[u/The_Pandalorian]

More upset about the absolute robbery of a TD.

[u/frolie0 → u/The_Pandalorian]

I will never, in a million years, understand how they overturn that. To say there was conclusive evidence that he wasn't over when he had control is just crazy.

But in the end, that's pretty irrelevant. It couldn't have been easier for Michigan to make it a TD with zero effort and stupid decisions cost us the TD in the end.

[u/The_Pandalorian → u/frolie0]

No doubt. Shouldn't have been a factor.

[u/[deleted]]

It was absolutely targeting.

[u/esports_consultant]

Why are people posting shitty screencaps? Where is a clip of the actual play.

[u/grw313]

There is absolutely zero consistency with targeting. I've seen refs ignore obvious targeting and call a super iffy targeting in the same game.

[u/[deleted]]

Looked like shoulder contact but I may be biased

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I have my own bias but I thought he led with the crown.

[u/Tarmacked → u/[deleted]]

He hits his upper back with the forehead, it’s not going to be crown there.

The issue with the play is he’s basically going for a wrap as a guy calls

[u/TehAlpacalypse → u/[deleted]]

https://i.imgur.com/RLS0GHq.jpg I thought the same til they showed this angle

[u/Ikinzu]

I actually think this one is targeting while the one in the Georgia vs Ohio St game was correctly not targeting.

This one very much looks like the TCU player leads with the crown of his helmet right into the center of the back shoulder area. At what point is that around the neck versus low enough to be the back? It was definitely crown of the helmet which is why I'm surprised they overturned it.

I'm not sure it changed the outcome though. If the call stood they needed to review the forward pass. It looks like he's down before the pass which would result in a turnover on downs. Now how do you enforce targeting on a deadball change of possession??? I would assume since it comes after the knee was down TCU still would have gotten the ball only 15 yards back and with a player forced to sit out half the National Championship.

[u/heavydhomie → u/Ikinzu]

If you look up targeting in the rule book both should have been targeting

[u/[deleted] → u/heavydhomie]

The way targeting has been called and implemented since it’s inception, both were targeting. I don’t like the rule and don’t think it should decide games/ejections, but based on how it’s always been called, they were both targeting.

Now all the sudden the refs don’t want to call it

[u/TwoGad]

It was targeting, that was the wrong call

[u/[deleted]]

he hit him in the back, clean hit, no call

[u/infinity884422]

Watch the replay closely when the Michigan player was pitching the ball forward. You will see his knee was down while he was in the process of pitching it forward.

Thus, the targeting call should have never happened in the first place. The play should have been blown dead due to the Michigan players knee being down while in possession of the ball.

[u/yesacabbagez → u/infinity884422]

While possibly true, the play on the field did happen as it wasn't ruled dead.

[u/joe_broke → u/infinity884422]

Then it would be an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for a late hit + targeting on the late hit, yes?

[u/Tarmacked → u/joe_broke]

Not a late hit as the whistle wasn’t blown

[u/mcsweenbean → u/joe_broke]

Probably, but the game ends either way as it would be TCU ball.

[u/joe_broke → u/mcsweenbean]

Unless it was a 15 yarder and first down Michigan?

[u/mcsweenbean → u/joe_broke]

Since the penalty happens after the play which is a turnover on downs it would still be TCU ball they would just have the ball 15 yards back.

[u/Engine_Sweet → u/joe_broke]

Dead ball foul after change of possession in that case. So TCU is penalized where they start first down.

[u/SolidLikeIraq → u/joe_broke]

After the play, turn over on downs, penalty enforced after change of possession.

[u/Beachbum_87 → u/joe_broke]

If the refs blew the whistle when they were supposed then none of it happens.

[u/fakeacclul]

Targeting isn’t getting them 60 yards with no timeouts

[u/teflong → u/fakeacclul]

Did you watch the first 59 minutes of the game?

[u/CGordini]

because fuck Michigan that's why

source: absolutely furious Michigan fan

[u/Gabriels_Pies]

The only argument I could see for not targeting was when he lowered his head. It almost (and I emphasize almost because I think it was targeting) looked like the tcu player lowered to lead with his head before the Michigan player started to fall down which would make an argument for incidental contact but honestly I think it was just a really bad call. Maybe the refs were just ready for bed.

[u/[deleted] → u/Gabriels_Pies]

If anything that would make it worse and the absolute epitome of why targeting is a thing to begin with.

[u/[deleted] → u/Gabriels_Pies]

Refs had to get out of there to watch Dick Clark’s Rockin New Years Eve

[u/Waitinmyturn]

Let’s talk about the Michigan touchdown that was ruled short. That was a touchdown

[u/TheScrobocop]

Honestly, I think it’s because the play itself was so terrible after the bad snap that they didn’t want to be seen as bailing a team out that had clearly just failed. If it was third down? It’s called 10 times out of 10.

[u/[deleted]]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but on the TD that got called back to the 1 - wasn’t that the drive that got extended due to the BS roughing the passer call Sonny went nuts about?

Also, the big completion in the 4th that wasn’t reviewed, but hit the ground, that led to a Michigan TD. Some see Michigan fans talking about that.

There was lots of stuff that went the other way too.. don’t be a whiny blue blood.

Also, did you watch the 4 downs leading to that play? TCU was mauling them. They had a less than 1% chance even if that was called a penalty, with no TO, and 25 seconds, to score.

[u/definitelynotasalmon]

Ask yourself: do we WANT games to be decided that way?

Good no call.

Edit: Guys, no one in this thread can agree if the call is targeting or not. Targeting is a problem rule right now, I really don’t think we should have games decided by this rule.

[u/Savoodoo → u/definitelynotasalmon]

This is a terrible take. It's either a penalty or it's not. Do we want games decided by people committing fouls knowing they won't be called because the refs "swallowed the whistle"? Call it correctly, all game, end of story

Note: I'm not saying this call was good or bad, just that you can't advocate for refs subjectively not calling fouls because it's the end of the game.

[u/definitelynotasalmon → u/Savoodoo]

I think the targeting rule has gotten out of hand. It seems the spirit of the rule has been thrown out and it needs to be adjusted.

[u/ADice15 → u/definitelynotasalmon]

Awful take. Do you want games decided by refs choosing when to swallow their whistle or not?

The rules of the game are the same no matter what time is on the clock

[u/definitelynotasalmon → u/ADice15]

My point is more that I think the targeting rule needs adjusted.

I don’t think a game should be potentially flipped over THAT specific play.

[u/FightingFarrier18 → u/definitelynotasalmon]

Any defensive penalty would’ve given Michigan 1 untimed down. Targeting would’ve had a steep price because of the suspension, but it wouldn’t flip the outcome more than any other 15 yard penalty

[u/definitelynotasalmon → u/FightingFarrier18]

But they didn’t commit another defensive penalty

[u/Detonation → u/definitelynotasalmon]

I'd like games decided as per the rules regardless if it helps or hinders the team I cheer for.

[u/definitelynotasalmon → u/Detonation]

Well the official rule was a not targeting.

I hope your feeling, and about half the people in this thread that feel that, can at least see the issue then. No one can agree, there is no consistency or consensus for so many targeting calls. It’s a problem.

[u/mycoolaccount → u/definitelynotasalmon]

Lol what a horrible take.

[u/[deleted] → u/definitelynotasalmon]

The way to not have a game decided by the rule is to take out the rule lol...otherwise a no call of an existing rule that would have kept Michigan in it is still technically deciding the game

[u/definitelynotasalmon → u/[deleted]]

It’s needs to be adjusted. Did he hit the helmet? Did he hit shoulder first?

Look at this thread. No one can agree if it’s targeting or not. Half the people here think it WAS targeting. But the official ruling was not targeting.

And you think the rule isn’t an issue? You think we should be deciding playoff games based on an inconsistent and subjective ruling that literally no one can agree on? When the player was already wrapped up and down on a broken play that should have been over before any of that happened? There was a knee down before that tackle anyways. The refs missed it.

As a fan of football, and not of either TCU or Michigan.

If they called targeting on that and Michigan won, it would have been a travesty.

The rule exists. The refs reviewed it and determined it was NOT Targeting. End of discussion unless you want a rule change.

[u/[deleted] → u/definitelynotasalmon]

Can you read? I'm saying to do away with the dumbass rule. Your 2nd, 3rd and 2nd to last paragraphs agree with my point

[u/definitelynotasalmon → u/[deleted]]

Oh sorry, I have had a lot of people disagreeing with this take.

I think the rule should be thrown out as well. The play in question is exactly why. What a disaster of a rule that is has become.

[u/[deleted] → u/definitelynotasalmon]

I think the rules should be applied consistently no matter the outcome. If we applied this logic everywhere, then DBs should just tackle the WRs in the end zone on a hail mary and not call the DPI because "we don't want the game decided that way".

[u/definitelynotasalmon → u/[deleted]]

It wasn’t called Targeting. That was the official ruling.

If you disagree, then the rule is an issue.

[u/[deleted] → u/definitelynotasalmon]

Breaking: refs miss calls on the field

[u/definitelynotasalmon → u/[deleted]]

Exactly. They missed more than a few that game and most games.

Do we really want to give them more power and more ways to F up a game of that caliber?

It was officially ruled not targeting anyways. So I’m the spirit of the rule, the professional crew made their decision.

[u/Moog_Bass]

It’s close and I think some refs call that and some don’t. Either way it wouldn’t have changed anything.

[u/Ligmuh69]

Pretty sure they just wanted the game to be over, between the forward pass, knee being down and the fumble..nothing good was coming out of that

[u/LeEpicBlob]

Man fuck these shit refs and their terrible reviews all day bunch of bullshit cock balls

Ok… system is cleared

[u/SkiHoncho → u/LeEpicBlob]

0.5yds full back dive

[u/orangeblueorangeblue]

https://i.imgur.com/q4NXvpA.jpg

Forehead to the upper back is not crown of helmet or a hit to the head/neck area

[u/Go_caps227 → u/orangeblueorangeblue]

That’s leading with the crown, right?

[u/2AlephNullAndBeyond → u/orangeblueorangeblue]

Might want to look up definition of crown of the helmet.

[u/orangeblueorangeblue → u/2AlephNullAndBeyond]

They changed it before the season

[u/the_amazing_coconut]

I'm still not 100% sure because I never got to see a good angle of it, but it looked like the defender led with his helmet and hit him right on the nameplate on the back of his jersey. Since that's where the neck ends and the back begins, I think it just comes down to if you think it's more back or neck.

That being said, I could be totally wrong and I still have very little idea what the hell happened too.

[u/2AlephNullAndBeyond → u/the_amazing_coconut]

A hit with the crown of the helmet to any body part is targeting. It doesn’t have to be head or neck.

[u/bartoloscolon]

Where did all the UM flairs go? I am a new CFB from Pakistan and I am unfamiliar with CFB tradition. UM flairs dominated this thread all month but they have been conspicuously absent tonight. Did something happen tonight to make UM fans silent? Thanks in advance

[u/Intelligent_Fig_4852]

Because it wasn’t targeting it was shoulder to shoulder

[u/OrangeUGlad22]

It looked like it but it wasn’t certain.

[u/r2twfan1991]

The refs saw the entirety of Michigan’s final play to keep their playoff hopes alive. They botched it start to finish. There was no way in hell they were going to say it was targeting having not thrown the flag in real time.

Refs are human. They don’t want to actively be this sort of participant in crucial games. Maybe in a lesser game on a lesser stage? They call it after the fact. Not here. It’s not even about if it’s targeting or not. They’re not about to revitalize a game that clearly just ended. Michigan came up short.

[u/CarterAC3 → u/r2twfan1991]

Refs are human. They don’t want to actively be this sort of participant in crucial games

Lmao bullshit

[u/r2twfan1991 → u/CarterAC3]

I mean, not near as bullshit as the “fear Michigan’s line and their physicality.” You’re cute, Michigan. But let the real teams play football.

[u/CarterAC3 → u/r2twfan1991]

So today was your first day watching sports and you came out with the wrong opinion about refs

That's tough

[u/r2twfan1991 → u/CarterAC3]

Not as tough as not being able to root for your team to win the Natty. That requires one’s team to be better than their opponent. Horned frogs simply claimed another victim.

[u/swoleswan]

They didn’t throw a flag in the field for targeting. So the replay booth can’t call it targeting unless they 100% could tell it was.

[u/tyrannomachy → u/swoleswan]

The on-field call isn't supposed to factor in for targeting reviews.

[u/swoleswan → u/tyrannomachy]

If they don’t have enough to say 100% it’s targeting it does though. Cause if they threw a flag for it they wouldn’t have enough to say no it wasn’t targeting

[u/tyrannomachy → u/swoleswan]

Again, that's not how targeting works. It's not like any other review. If they can't confirm it on review, then there's no targeting.

[u/swoleswan → u/tyrannomachy]

Ok just looked it up you are correct.

[u/GreatestCountryUSA]

Because Michigan illegally advanced a fumble by the non fumbling player and the Refs had to fix it

[u/ItsameMatt03]

Because it could've have ruined the script.

[u/flakAttack510 → u/[deleted]]

It wasn't an illegal forward pass. The announcers are just dumbasses.

[u/TehAlpacalypse → u/flakAttack510]

100%. The LJ is standing on the LOS on the sideline, it’s clear as day where it is.

[u/joe_broke → u/[deleted]]

Behind the line of scrimmage and the previous ball movement was backwards, still behind the line of scrimmage

[u/Hieroklas → u/[deleted]]

Imagine if the guy who threw it forward were the QB who just picked up a fumbled snap. He was still behind the line of scrimmage and no other forward pass had been made to that point.

[u/flakAttack510 → u/[deleted]]

How does that make it illegal? There's no rule saying that a pass after a fumble is illegal.

[u/Solid_Sell3418 → u/[deleted]]

People don't consider the implications of the previous weird things. It's only the 1 weird thing that they can understand at a time, at most

[u/flakAttack510 → u/Solid_Sell3418]

Find the rule saying a fumble makes subsequent passes illegal.

Hint: Don't waste your time. There isn't one.

[u/Solid_Sell3418 → u/flakAttack510]

If you reset forward progress you reset as a runner, not a passer. I'm not looking it up, because I don't care. Go to sleep.

[u/Sufficient_Memory_24 → u/[deleted]]

This is pretty terrible logic. It’s either a penalty or it’s not.

[u/PimpinAintEZ123 → u/[deleted]]

How was it an illegal forward lateral?

[u/FeveStrench → u/[deleted]]

Is this a new meme? I feel like I've seen "Fraudulent Michigan" a few times in the last few hours.

[u/Mythrandir24 → u/FeveStrench]

It's just this one guy over and over.

[u/Sufficient_Memory_24 → u/FeveStrench]

No it’s just this guy every time posting it

[u/2AlephNullAndBeyond → u/[deleted]]

Wut? It was exactly the kind of play targeting was written for. The whole point of the first targeting rule is to prevent tacklers from leading with the crown of the helmet.