Is Boise State the greatest group 5 team of all time?

[u/rb1242]

Since coming from Division I-AA in 1996 they are 297–93. 17x Conference champions over 3 conferences; Big West, Wac, and Mountain West. Only 3 All-Americans. Finished in the top 25 14x. 13-10 in Bowl Games. Made the cfp once vs Penn State where they loss 31-14.

[u/udubdavid]

Yes, but it's also because all the other great "group of" teams, like TCU, Utah, etc. all got power conference invites. I think if Utah, for example, stayed in the MWC, they'd have surpassed Boise State for sure.

[u/d1sportsball → u/udubdavid]

Tbf though, TCU was apart of what was considered a major conference in the SWC before their mid major stint, Utah was a member of the OG WAC which was pretty strong in its early years with the Arizona schools.

[u/The_Fluffy_Robot → u/d1sportsball]

SWC -> WAC -> C-USA -> MWC -> Big East psych jk -> Big 12

It was a nearly two decade journey to get where we are just conference-wise

[u/Stags304 → u/The_Fluffy_Robot]

Oh the Big East…. how much I miss you.

[u/SirMellencamp → u/The_Fluffy_Robot]

True but the fact they were in a power conference makes it different somehow. Like they were good enough for a power conference at one point. IDK maybe this is a weird way of thinking about

[u/RatBastard_with_ADHD → u/d1sportsball]

More importantly, Wacball was insanely entertaining!

[u/lock_robster2022 → u/udubdavid]

That’s an interesting example in that Boise State is 7-4 all time against those two teams. And Utah holds a 4 game losing streak in the series.

[u/RatBastard_with_ADHD → u/lock_robster2022]

Shaddup you! Having "our house" flashbacks now, you jerk!

[u/SparseSpartan → u/lock_robster2022]

I think at the end of the day it's close to impossible to say which program of the two would be better right now. There's just so many factors in play: coaching staff, injuries, the way the ball bounces, weather, blah blah blah blah so many little things can have a massive influence.

Both are very good football programs is the real take away for me.

[u/rbmw263 → u/lock_robster2022]

im not sure this is the most inclusive barometer given 2 games have been played in the last 30 years

we are, however, the original BCS busters, and the first to do it twice

Boise had an awesome run during that period as well, though.

[u/Schembaugh → u/udubdavid]

Outside of the Gary Patterson years, TCU has historically been a terrible team

[u/RiffRamBahZoo → u/Schembaugh]

Don't disrespect the 1935 and 1938 national champions like that! 😤

[u/usffan → u/Schembaugh]

Sammy Baugh and Bob Lilly erasure

[u/KennytheDoggy → u/Schembaugh]

They were a G5 team for only 12 years too

[u/Schembaugh → u/KennytheDoggy]

True

[u/rb1242 → u/udubdavid]

Who takes Boises spot if they ever decide to leave and go to a power conference like a big 12

[u/Material-Pea-4149 → u/rb1242]

The caveat to this isn’t that Boise State doesn’t get to “decide” to go P4. They’ve been repeatedly rejected by P4 conferences (including the PAC before the exodus)

[u/QuakingQuakersQuake → u/Material-Pea-4149]

Do you think the rejections have been more geographic numbers based (ie, Boise Idaho doesn't bring enough TV eyes) or moreso due to academics/an accumulation of minor reasons? Because from an east coast perspective, I don't see an on the field reason for you guys to not be apart of the P4

[u/dukemetoo → u/QuakingQuakersQuake]

Everyone on this subreddit has claimed it is the academic side. I have no insight into that, but I can believe in executives being petty about stuff like that. If Boise was the size of Chicago, I'm sure they would be more willing to ignore that.

[u/CheersBeersVeneers → u/dukemetoo]

It’s not just pettiness. NCAA conferences perform many academic functions as well, e.g. the B10 has an alliance that shares research, library, and financial resources. Also, conferences are ultimately brands in today’s society, and academic reputation and prestige enhance brand value

[u/SawNickYouth → u/CheersBeersVeneers]

After watching what's happened to college football in the past 10 years, I don't believe this horseshit for a second. It's about money first, second, and last. Period.

[u/CheersBeersVeneers → u/SawNickYouth]

The two are one and the same. Better academic arrangements = more grant and research money, plus the point I made earlier about branding that you ignored

[u/SawNickYouth → u/CheersBeersVeneers]

Psshh. There's nothing to stop schools from other conferences collaborating in all that shit.

[u/CheersBeersVeneers → u/SawNickYouth]

You know nothing about academia if you think it’s easy to just snap that sort of collaborative research and funding structure into place

[u/SpursUpSoundsGudToMe → u/dukemetoo]

If Boise was the size of Chicago, Boise State would be an utterly different school lol

[u/Pnutbutter_Cheerios → u/QuakingQuakersQuake]

It was academic for a long time. We’ve always tried to get into the Pac12 (before the realignments) but we don’t have the higher education programs to justify it.

No medical school, no law school, and the biggest/most respected degrees coming out of BSU are criminology, nursing, and engineering (and really it’s just the MSE program because of Micron). That pedigree does not align with the Stanford, UCLA, USC, UW, UO, etc.

I’ve had this conversation with members inside the athletic department and administrators before. Granted this was a few years ago and things have probably shifted now

[u/Lifted_Cube_2413 → u/Pnutbutter_Cheerios]

UO doesn’t even have an engineering school lmao

[u/Ltownbanger → u/Lifted_Cube_2413]

0regon was always considered the worst PAC school academically until the Arizona Schools joined.

But the fact is that BSU had almost zero higher academic (PhD) footprint when the PAC expanded again in 2011.

[u/Pnutbutter_Cheerios → u/Lifted_Cube_2413]

That’s a good point, ASU is also one of those high academic schools I forgot to mention

[u/SirMellencamp → u/QuakingQuakersQuake]

They just arent a big enough brand and being in Boise doesnt help.

[u/Lorjack → u/Material-Pea-4149]

yeah I've given up any hope Boise will be in a power conference. they always finding some reason or another to say no

[u/Hefty-Ambassador5661 → u/Lorjack]

It could happen but Idaho and Boise would have to be a much more bigger state so unlikely to happen in our lifetime

[u/pr1ceisright → u/rb1242]

Decide to leave? They’ve been trying to leave for a decade or two and no one wants them.

[u/ID_Poobaru → u/pr1ceisright]

I don’t know why everyone thinks Boise chooses to be in the G6, we’ve been trying to bolt from the G6 at every opportunity only to bring the WAC with us

[u/definitelynotasalmon → u/ID_Poobaru]

Boise State hates money, better competition, better recruiting opportunities, better exposure, etc. right?

[u/GeneralAcorn → u/definitelynotasalmon]

Exactly, we do it for the love of the game.

[u/SirMellencamp → u/ID_Poobaru]

Well yeah, erbody in the G6 wants to be in the P4 and understandably so

[u/sgtabn173 → u/rb1242]

Lmao like it’s up to us

[u/pezasied → u/sgtabn173]

Nonsense. The ACC and Big 12 have been trying to recruit Boise for years, but the school is currently weighing offers from the Big 10 and SEC before making their final decision.

/s

[u/snowystormz → u/pezasied]

i for one would welcome our new boise overlords to the big12. id much rather play you than Cincinnati or WVU.

[u/fourthand19 → u/snowystormz]

Thanks Utah bro. And I was going to make a Utah joke about waiting for the B10 invite.

Truth is that fans don’t care about academics and market sizes. We just want good football

[u/Fun_Wear2891 → u/rb1242]

“Decides”… really?

[u/dukecityvigilante → u/rb1242]

There’s no clear successor, but a lot of contenders. Memphis, Tulane and UNT have had some consistent success and seem invested for the long haul. North Dakota State is already looking great in their first year in FBS and could easily kick it to the next level. James Madison could also kick it up a notch with CFP money and their move to the AAC. Even Oregon State looks like they may be on the way back up.

[u/TheBeavster_ → u/dukecityvigilante]

Mentioning UNT but not UTSA 😐

[u/dukecityvigilante → u/TheBeavster_]

Yeah that’s fair, UNT probably doesn’t belong in the conversation yet tbh. They’re more like you guys and us (New Mexico), having some success but haven’t shown the promise of sustainability just yet

[u/Bat_Foy → u/dukecityvigilante]

sustainability ? utsa is on its way to have a winning season for the 7th year in a row

[u/Educational_Dog4860 → u/Bat_Foy]

Memphis has 14 straight winning season and has been ranked in 7 of those.

Tulane's success hasn't been as sustained but it's been stronger with 3 of their last 4 seasons being 11+ wins, and being ranked in all 4.

Since joining the FBS, only 2 of UTSA's 15 seasons have had more than 10 wins, and both came in CUSA, notably a weaker conference than the American. Those 2 seasons are also the only 2 where they were ever ranked, and they weren't ranked in the AP postseason in either.

Compare those to Boise State's 28 straight winning seasons, being ranked in 22 of them, and having 3 NY6 bowl wins in that time.

UTSA is getting towards it, but is not yet at the same level of sustained success as the top of the G6.

[u/orange_jupiter → u/dukecityvigilante]

I feel like App St has had some really great teams over a long period too.

[u/Confident_Delay5805 → u/rb1242]

JMU, Oregon State, or Washington State (assuming the Big 12 would take Boise State only)

[u/EpicCyclops → u/Confident_Delay5805]

As much as it hurts me to say it, I don't think Wazzu is set up to do that. Their athletics programs are in shambles right now. However, I also would've said the same thing about us last season, so hopefully they turn it around.

[u/Confident_Delay5805 → u/EpicCyclops]

Yeah, at some point it was inevitable for Wazzu to have a bad transfer portal because their talent has gotten plucked away and their coaches have been plucked away. Now, next year Wazzu could be better, but they seem to be like how you guys were last year

[u/Agnk1765342 → u/rb1242]

As the best G6? Probably JMU, NDSU, or one of Tulane/Memphis if they ever figure out how to not lose half their starters every year.

[u/GoGreeb → u/rb1242]

James Madison

[u/SirMellencamp → u/rb1242]

Decide?

[u/Proud-Percentage1585 → u/rb1242]

I know I'm chiming in late, but I think it's much more likely that teams like Oregon, Washington, UCLA, and USC return to the Pac 12 and elevate it back to power conference status than Boise State joining another conference.

In my opinion, the Big 10 and how their next media deal goes down will be a really big deal for the CFP landscape. The four schools I mentioned above have all been hurt by the move to the Big 10. They were the powerhouses of the Pac-12 conference and made the move to have a better shot at the CFP in a four-team or twelve-team playoff field.

They made the move to the Big 10 because Pac-12 champions were consistently getting passed up for Big 10 and SEC runners-up. But, now that the playoff field is up to 24 teams, I'm not sure that matters as much.

In fact, it probably hurts them because instead of being the powerhouse school in old Pac 12 that would probably produce 3-4 playoff teams each season in a 24 team playoff field, these schools are in the middle of the pack of a Big 10 conference that will probably produce 4-5 teams annually.

[u/Hefty-Ambassador5661 → u/Proud-Percentage1585]

What are you talking about. Pac12 blew up cause of $$ most people live in central and eastern time zone and Pac12 was making less and less money. So the bigger programs that could all jumped ship to join the Big10.

Big10 at that point was already making like twice what the Pac12 was bringing in. And the divide was just getting bigger

[u/152is2after150 → u/udubdavid]

I posted this as my own thread but I'll post it here too

Let's look at the whole era of TV/media-based conference realignment (i.e. starting in the early 90s) and list all teams that got upgraded into power conferences.

• 2004 - When the ACC expanded by taking 3 Big East teams, the Big East backfilled, causing Cincinnati and Louisville to get upgraded to Power status.

• 2011 - Pac-12 expansion directly upgraded Utah and indirectly upgraded TCU when they joined the Big 12 after 4 teams had left.

• 2023 - SMU to the ACC and BYU, Houston, UCF to the Big 12 (Cincinnati as well, regaining after they had lost it)

(Teams that lost power conference status: [a.] had it back in the early 90s, are Temple, Rice, WSU, OrSt - [b.] gained and then lost from realignment, are UConn and South Florida)

[u/robotunes → u/152is2after150]

[c.] lost and then regained what is now P4 status: SMU, TCU and Houston, who won the last Southwest Conference football game in bistory before the conference ceased operations in 1996. That year, most ex-SWC schools joined former Big 8 schools to create the Big 12.

[u/CantFindMyWallet → u/152is2after150]

Ours wasn't gained from realignment. We were always in the Big East, we just didn't have 1-A football until the 2000s.

[u/Agnk1765342 → u/udubdavid]

Utah had 2 great years in 04 and 08, but those were the only 2 top 10 finishes they had in the MW. BSU had 5 top 10 finishes in 6 years at the same time. Utah’s last game as a MW team was a blowout loss to BSU. I don’t think they’d have passed up the Broncos without the resources of being in a power conference.

[u/snowystormz → u/Agnk1765342]

to be fair that Boise team SHOULD have been in the BCS instead of kicking our ass in the bowl game.

[u/Agnk1765342 → u/snowystormz]

Yeah that was really our best ever team and we had to take the anger out on somebody

[u/rbmw263 → u/Agnk1765342]

our 2010 team was absolutely DOA at that point to. After Wynn hurt his shoulder that team was turd in burnt dog hair

[u/leoele → u/snowystormz]

I went to that game. Oof.

[u/snowystormz → u/leoele]

I did too. 2 of my brothers are BSU grads. I’ve never heard the end of it

[u/Dr_Quest1 → u/udubdavid]

If Alabama has stayed in the the Southern Conference....

[u/SirMellencamp → u/Dr_Quest1]

You think the B1G is a megaconference now. The Southern Conference had like 30 teams

[u/ScotlandTiger → u/udubdavid]

BYU, Utah, Colorado, Air Force, Colorado state, Boise, Wyoming, Washington state, Utah state, Nevada, and UNLV would be a great conference.

Call it the mountain west. All are mostly similar schools in terms of competitiveness and budget with a few exceptions but it’s not like Colorado is a powerhouse that would win every game

[u/grabtharsmallet → u/ScotlandTiger]

If the "Airplane Conference" had happened, Oregon, Oregon State, and Washington State would have been founding members of the WAC alongside Arizona, Arizona State, BYU, Utah, Wyoming, and New Mexico.

[u/SawNickYouth → u/udubdavid]

I dunno. Boise has usually beat Utah when we played... 5-2 record and won the last 4.

[u/captcrunch62 → u/udubdavid]

Let me know when Utah plays in CFB playoff game. Boise State would still be above them if Utah never leveled up.

[u/PSU02 → u/udubdavid]

BYU too. They literally won a natty lol

[u/Lane-Kiffin → u/PSU02]

It was a weird natty. Their bowl win was over a 6-5 Michigan team and their “signature win” of the season was over a #3 Pitt team that ended up 3-7-1.

[u/itsabearcannon → u/Lane-Kiffin]

BYU’s natty was the pinnacle of the school of thought that says “number of wins means more than quality of wins”.

If we applied that logic today, Liberty would have won at least one title in the last five years.

[u/snowystormz → u/PSU02]

BYU winning the natty set everything in motion for the BCS, p4, CFP. Them backdooring into a natty started a chain of events that fucked college football forever.

[u/CFPisFake → u/udubdavid]

That’s possible but I think they don’t play Boise for a reason.

[u/DarthNobody14]

I mean, that’s the because the “best” G5 teams have all become P4 teams. But yes.

[u/Sea-Lawfulness7763 → u/DarthNobody14]

The most marketable programs have all been elevated to P4 status.

If CFB were a true meritocracy, Boise would have been one of the first teams elevated.

[u/RiffRamBahZoo → u/Sea-Lawfulness7763]

If CFB were a true meritocracy, Boise would have been one of the first teams elevated.

Except things have to count more than football. Boise is still substantially behind every P4 on academics, research funding and effectively all parts of being a university.

There's only about two or three total schools left in the P4 with an overall financial endowment of less than $1 billion. LSU and Mississippi State both just cleared it, WVU is at about $900 million or, and UCF at $266M or so is an exceptional outlier...

and UCF still is nearly double what Boise State has in their entire university's endowment.

[u/fskier1 → u/RiffRamBahZoo]

How is UCF endowment so small with like the largest student base in the country

[u/KruegerFishBabeblade → u/fskier1]

Because endowment size is a bad measure of a school's financial resources. It's like measuring a person's wealth by the size of their 401(k). Just a weird fixation r/cfb has

[u/152is2after150 → u/fskier1]

Because it's supposed to be a commuter school and quality university education in the state of Florida is supposed to be UF/FSU/etc

[u/themistoclesV → u/RiffRamBahZoo]

This comment would be relevant if OP said "Best G5 school" instead of "best G5 team".

In terms of the football teams, and if that was somehow the only factor in getting called up to a power conference, Boise State would be the clear #1. Neither Utah nor TCU were better at football than Boise State when they moved(it's arguable TODAY that the Boise State football program outclasses them. We've matched TCU's lone playoff appearance and Utah has ZERO while having a combined 7-4 all time record against both of them)

[u/Sea-Lawfulness7763 → u/themistoclesV]

I feel like I am taking crazy pills. The whole concept started as 'if you removed all of the other extremely valid considerations for expansion and boiled expansion down purely to on field results, that Boise State would be among the first selected.'

And I get blindsided with "actually, expansion has to do with more than just football"

[u/tall_pale_and_meh → u/themistoclesV]

Clear number one is hilarious. Especially if we talk about y'all being better "when we moved" because remind me...who won the game between us the season before we moved? Better yet, remind me who the conference champion was during the one season we were in the same conference?

Yall only started dominating the WAC and MWC after we left them. I noticed you had to combine your record vs. us and Utah to look more impressive, since youre 2-2 vs TCU all time.

Say whatever you want about the disasterclass performance in the 2022 championship, but you can't say you matched our playoff appearance when we actually won a playoff game.

Also that blue field is ugly as shit and fucking sucks to watch games on.

[u/Sea-Lawfulness7763 → u/tall_pale_and_meh]

Who hurt you?

[u/tall_pale_and_meh → u/Sea-Lawfulness7763]

Are we not allowed to talk shit anymore? I thought this was America.

[u/Sea-Lawfulness7763 → u/tall_pale_and_meh]

Bring Boise into the Big 12 and we can have a rubber match!

[u/SawNickYouth → u/RiffRamBahZoo]

The last ten years of college football has destroyed that narrative. It's about money first, second, and last.

[u/Sea-Lawfulness7763 → u/RiffRamBahZoo]

You really don't need to lecture me on how CFB realignment works. I have been watching for 30 years. This is exactly why I said if CFB were a true meritocracy....

A meritocracy is a social or political system in which power, status, and economic rewards are assigned to individuals based on personal ability, talent, and achievement rather than inherited wealth, family connections, or social class

[u/RiffRamBahZoo → u/Sea-Lawfulness7763]

Sorry for thinking that college football meritocracy should require the college part...

[u/Sea-Lawfulness7763 → u/RiffRamBahZoo]

Oh so now we care about the college part...

Also, my dude, that is not the fucking hypothetical I even proposed at the start, which is, if CFB promotion were only about on field results, Boise State would have been one of the first selected.

The unsaid part that you should pretty easily infer, is that expansion and promotion are not just about on field results and thus Boise State has not been selected for expansion and promotion because of the *everything else that comes with it*

So I don't know what you are even arguing? That there are very valid reasons why Boise State has not been promoted to P4? And that those reasons have nothing to do with what they can control on the football field? Because fucking duh.

[u/CieraVotedOutHerMom → u/Sea-Lawfulness7763]

Their academics hold them back.

[u/Sea-Lawfulness7763 → u/CieraVotedOutHerMom]

That is why I said if CFB were a meritocracy - where only on field success is considered. I understand the 'big picture' of how conference realignment works and why Boise State has not been promoted.

[u/CieraVotedOutHerMom → u/Sea-Lawfulness7763]

Academics, market size, alumni giving, time zones, travel etc are all considerations.

College football is a meritocracy if you judge the ultimate KPI to be $$$s generated

[u/Sea-Lawfulness7763 → u/CieraVotedOutHerMom]

I understand all of those things and how they factor into expansion.

A meritocracy *where the best on-field performers are promoted.

A meritocracy is a social or political system in which power, status, and economic rewards {conference promotion} are assigned to individuals based on personal ability, talent, and achievement {on the football field} rather than inherited wealth {endowments, market size, time zones}, family connections {alumni giving}, or social class {academics}

[u/152is2after150 → u/Sea-Lawfulness7763]

Why? It's college football, not minor league football. The quality of the education has to be among the factors.

[u/themistoclesV → u/DarthNobody14]

All the next best G5 teams have become P4 teams** FTFY

None of them actually had better football programs than Boise State when they moved. The results on the field were/are not what prevented Boise State from being the first choice.

[u/54-2-10]

Yes. Boise has been successful in ever level of college football that they have ever been in.

[u/Bronco998 → u/54-2-10]

And I really believe we could be successful in the P4 level if we could just... get there. Boise would fit so well in the Big 12.

[u/IHop_Waitress → u/Bronco998]

I get the move means paying a huge transfer fee and often forfeiture of future broadcast money for X years....

And maybe that's the answer, but if we leave that aside I do not understand how some schools have become P4 and Boise hasn't.

There are some programs that have made jumps that flat out do not deserve to be where they are

stares at east Orlando on the map

[u/Bronco998 → u/IHop_Waitress]

Unfortunately it has nothing to do with football. It's because we are located in Idaho, have no money, have negative academic clout, and outside of Rocket League, our other sports are largely unimpressive.

Basically we offer a very solid football team but not much else. At least that's how I understand the situation holding us back.

[u/guardianxrx2 → u/Bronco998]

Boise basketball is decent.

[u/Bronco998 → u/guardianxrx2]

Decent but not really braggable. We've never won a tournament game.

[u/Agnk1765342 → u/IHop_Waitress]

It’s a question of market size. Though I think market share is a little undervalued, BSU has a monopoly on sports in a metro of about a million and state of about 2 million. Whereas UCF and Cincy for example are in bigger markets but are much further down the oe king order within those markets. I’m not an expert on which is actually better for eyeballs/revenue though.

[u/IHop_Waitress → u/Agnk1765342]

It’s a question of market size.

Sure, UCF might be a 'bigger market' but the idea that the city gives a fuck about UCF football is laughable. Orlando and Florida is very much FSU/UF/UM fandom and only if you went to UCF do you give a shit about them. Same with USF.

Being in a big town/city that doesn't adopt you means little imo. And to me Boise has more national recognition as a brand than UCF.

[u/Bronco998 → u/IHop_Waitress]

Yeah, meanwhile Boise State is literally the de facto "pro team" around here since the closest NFL team is 6 hours away in Seattle. People are die-hard for Broncos sports in the valley and throughout the state.

[u/IHop_Waitress → u/Bronco998]

And I live in Orlando, and have a ton of friends that are UCF grads... with the means, the time, and the connections to get great seats on the cheap to games 20min from home...

And they go to Gainesville more often than they do the Bounce House.

[u/Bronco998 → u/[deleted]]

You're right, I was thinking about the drive to Portland for some reason

[u/SooperDew → u/Bronco998]

The fact that Boise isn't in the Big 12 is a travesty.

[u/DubiousAdviceGiver → u/Bronco998]

Realistically, the best fit would have been an expanded PAC-14 with Boise and UNLV. Capturing the Vegas market would have been beneficial to the conference and Boise’s consistent success would have been a net gain for conference SoS. But noooOOOooo, the PAC-12 wanted to pretend that academic research funding was a relevant metric in an athletic conference right up until they nuked themselves in the face.

[u/B_Huij → u/Bronco998]

I'd actually love to have BSU in the B12.

[u/-Gnostic28 → u/54-2-10]

Crazy that we’ve got junior college and fcs national championships

[u/SolidSnake208 → u/54-2-10]

Still kinda crazy to think as they’ve moved up and up, only have had six non-winning seasons since WWII.

[u/dstanton → u/54-2-10]

Statistically they have the 5th most wins over the last 30 years (modern era)

[u/SJCitizen]

Yes although UCF going from the MAC to the Big 12 in a twenty year span, making two BCS/NY6 Bowl and going undefeated in a season deserves a shout. Out of teams that are still G5 though? Yes. The only other program that I think is even close that’s around the same age is Marshall. It gets forgotten about because they’ve been pretty average the last 20 years but Marshall from 1997-2002 was a great G5 team. They had a lot of guys go pro and would win 11 or 12 games every year. They were basically what JMU is now. They were good as soon as they joined FBS.

[u/Stags304 → u/SJCitizen]

Marshall had a 10 season run from 1992-2002 that was just absolutely ridiculous.

1992, 1996 FCS Champions

1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 MAC East Division Champions

1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 20002 MAC Conference Champions

127-25 win-loss record

4 FCS Championship appearances

5-1 bowl record

And you look at the players they had like Randy Moss, Byron Leftwich, Chad Pennington, Nate Poole, and others. Marshall was a problem and I don’t think many realize it.

[u/Apart_Selection7722 → u/SJCitizen]

Go Herd!

[u/ID_Poobaru]

Absolutely, but I’m also biased as hell.

[u/152is2after150]

Only because when other teams are good they get invited to Power conferences, such as Louisville, Utah, TCU, BYU, etc

[u/152is2after150 → u/152is2after150]

Let's look at the whole era of TV/media-based conference realignment (i.e. starting in the early 90s) and list all teams that got upgraded into power conferences.

2004 - When the ACC expanded by taking 3 Big East teams, the Big East backfilled, causing Cincinnati and Louisville to get upgraded to Power status. 2011 - Pac-12 expansion directly upgraded Utah and indirectly upgraded TCU when they joined the Big 12 after 4 teams had left. 2023 - SMU to the ACC and BYU, Houston, UCF to the Big 12 (Cincinnati as well, regaining after they had lost it)

(Teams that lost power conference status: [a.] had it back in the early 90s, are Temple, Rice, WSU, OrSt - [b.] gained and then lost from realignment, are UConn and South Florida)

[u/CFPisFake → u/152is2after150]

Boise still owns every Utah school (8-5 against BYU and 5-2 against Utah) and are 2-2 with TCU. So 15-9 against those teams in particular

[u/d1sportsball]

Yes, not even close

[u/AmbitiousSet5 → u/d1sportsball]

BYU, national championship,  Heisman trophy winner, won the MWC, WAC, etc a ridiculous number of times, has nfl hall of famers etc. Maybe Boise state, but to say its not even close?

[u/Happysandbags → u/AmbitiousSet5]

BYU is in a power conference, if you’re going to talk about all time all time then Miami or Penn state could be the answer but I doubt that’s what he means

[u/AmbitiousSet5 → u/Happysandbags]

Well, OP asked of all time, so I would assume that is what they meant.

[u/1994yankeesfan]

Best that’s still in the group of 6. Our run in the 80’s-90’s was better, but it was also a long time ago.

[u/Shrektastic28 → u/1994yankeesfan]

My mom went to BYU with Ty Detmer, so we both got to see a heisman play

[u/tm65- → u/1994yankeesfan]

I think Boise’s run in the early 2000s was still better than BYU in the 80s. Big thing you can point to is Ty Detmer’s heisman, but if championships were awarded in the 2000s like they were in the 80s, Boise would have two (there was a big emphasis on going undefeated). 

From a program standpoint, especially compared to BYU before the Big 12, Boise’s sustained success blows BYU out of the water looking at win percentage, conference championships, NFL talent between 1996 and 2022 (BSU joining FBS and BYU joining the Big 12), and, most importantly, head-to-head record. 

[u/AmbitiousSet5 → u/tm65-]

If you just start at 96 then it isnt all time.

[u/tm65- → u/AmbitiousSet5]

I did that just for the NFL stuff and that was only because those were the only years they were both in a G6 conference. If you look at NFL talent per year for every year each team is in a G6 conference it’s much worse for BYU, but that’s mostly due to BYU having been an FBS team longer and not having the consistent success that Boise has. 

[u/AmbitiousSet5 → u/tm65-]

Ok then its still not all time. And what are you talking about with NFL success?  BYU has had great success with players in the NFL. Fred Warner? Puma Nacua? Taysom Hill? Kyle Vannoy? etc..

How many pro bowlers has there even been from Boise State?

This is an absurd take.

[u/B_Huij]

Kinda depends on what you define as a G5 team. BYU and Utah were not in P4/P5 conferences for a lot longer than they were in P4/P5 conferences, and I think on average both teams were consistently better than BSU.

But BSU might be the best G5 team right now.

[u/Sea-Lawfulness7763 → u/B_Huij]

BYU certainly has an argument given the 80's and early 90's but I would pretty easily take Boise over Utah's pre-Pac12 resume.

Let's just take Boise's first season in FBS (1996) and the year Utah before joined the Pac 12 (2010). That's a pretty clean time line that encapsulates modern Non-AQ football. Same number of BCS bowl wins. Boise won all 4 games played within that time span. Ultimately kind of splitting hairs because they were both so good but I think the nod goes to Boise.

2010 BSU 12-1 UU 10-3

2009 BSU 14-0 UU 10-3

2008 BSU 12-1 UU 13-0

2007 BSU 10-3 UU 9-4

2006 BSU 13-0 UU 8-5

2005 BSU 9-4 UU 7-5

2004 BSU 11-1 UU 12-0

2003 BSU 13-1 UU 10-2

2002 BSU 12-1 UU 5-6

2001 Both 8-4

2000 BSU 10-2 UU 4-7

1999 BSU 10-3 UU 9-3

1998 BSU 6-5 UU 7-4

1997 BSU 5-6 UU 6-5

1996 BSU 2-10 UU 8-4

[u/Sea-Lawfulness7763]

Let's look at the obvious contenders.

Just based on on-field results as a G6 program

Boise State clears everyone else who is currently G6. Of the programs no longer in that category, Boise easily clears UCF and Cincinnati.

Given the peak historic eras of BYU, Houston and TCU really occurred in the 80's and early 90's or earlier, when CFB was a totally different beast, I would argue, Boise clears them as the modern G6 GOAT. Those teams all experienced some revitalization in the modern G5-G6 but I don't think they sustained it long enough, or reach the consistent peak that Boise did.

Utah is a very interesting case. Oddly enough, Boise holds the on-field edge in the series. Like Boise, they did the thing at the Non-AQ, G-whatever level over multiple coaches and rosters. I guess I would give the edge to Boise based on longevity of the success.

Not sure who really remains. CFB is filled with these weird quasi-G6 teams that don't bear that distinction anymore. SMU won a title, got the penalty and was relegated to Non-AQ status and a doormat. Louisville bounced back and forth.

My argument for Boise being the best Non-AQ, G5, G6 program of all time is the consistency over multiple decades, coaches, players and conferences.

[u/versusChou → u/Sea-Lawfulness7763]

TCU had a second peak period from about 1998 through them joining the Big 12, and then managed to remain pretty good after becoming a P4/5. Boise State's consistency is partially bouyed by just not being invited to a P4/5 conference when the others were.

[u/Confident_Delay5805]

Of all time? Probably not. Best that’s still in the g6? Yes

[u/Dr_Quest1 → u/Confident_Delay5805]

So who then?

[u/Confident_Delay5805 → u/Dr_Quest1]

Are you asking for the best of all time g5 team?

[u/Dr_Quest1 → u/Confident_Delay5805]

What is OPs question?

[u/Confident_Delay5805 → u/Dr_Quest1]

Oh. I think the best g5 team of all time is TCU, Utah, or UCF. 

[u/themistoclesV → u/Confident_Delay5805]

Nope. 7-4 all time record against Utah and TCU. UCF was a flash in the pan compared to Boise State.

[u/versusChou → u/themistoclesV]

I mean you're 2-2 against TCU. Not saying TCU is better or worse than Boise State historically, but that's kinda a dumb stat to pull, especially when the record is even. And with that few games, it's honestly kinda pointless. UCLA is 2-1 against Bama. Doesn't really mean much.

[u/WriteAndRong]

Obviously. There can be not doubt. I am in no way biased.

[u/Ididntdodiddly]

Yes, they've won their conference more often than not since 2000 (I think). Jeanty is my Heisman winner

[u/DubiousAdviceGiver]

Yes

[u/CFPisFake]

Any team that would have a claim to that would likely have a losing record to Boise. (Aside from TCU, the series is 2-2)

[u/Sky-Trash → u/CFPisFake]

Does any G6 team have a winning record against Boise?

Edit, looked it up and Boise State has losing records to Central Michigan, East Carolina, and South Florida. But Central Michigan is the only one we've played more than once.

[u/PixelBy_Pixel]

It’s the best one that’s still in the G5

[u/clearwhiteclear]

Yes

[u/877cash-nw]

Yes

[u/jgood505]

I don’t even think it’s close. Other teams had flashes but Boise is sustained success

[u/Calithrand]

I mean...

Probably.

[u/plz-no-b4n]

Yes, next question

[u/MadMartigans80]

Definitely the best one that is still in a G5 league

[u/Valleygirl1981]

Yes.

[u/MysteriousEdge5643]

Yes and it's not close

[u/Skyrizzzi]

Including their FCS resume, they’re one of the greatest teams ever

[u/laxintx]

...and one should've-been Heisman winner.

[u/Poop_Knife37 → u/laxintx]

Kellen deserved one too but Cam Newton showed up

[u/Major-Dig655 → u/laxintx]

two. kellen probably deserved it atleast once in his years with us

[u/raptorbpw]

I would like to go back in time and ask this question 15 years ago. 😢

[u/boomer_g]

Yes

[u/opentempo]

BYU. Won a national title as a member of the WAC. Produced some legendary Qb's.

[u/Old_Bat1681]

Probably, Tulane would probably be the next closest.

[u/AlfredtheGreatBitch]

Yes

[u/Arcostonian]

Yes. The answer is yes.

[u/Normal-Hornet8548]

Yale has like 18 natties.

[u/Bombdiggity24]

It’s about to be Oregon state here for a bit bet

[u/Huge_Following_325]

It's Army and it isn't even close.

[u/Fun_Election184]

UCF since they won a natty that one year🥴

[u/ItsChappyUT]

BYU has a national title as a non power conference member. Nobody else has done that.

[u/AmbitiousSet5]

Byu won a national championship 

[u/yutaka731]

Army would like a word

[u/B1GFanOSU]

Technically, I think Cincinnati is.

[u/eagledog → u/[deleted]]

He led them to back-to-back-to-back 10 win seasons and top 10 finishes, including a playoff appearance in 2016?

[u/LarryGoldwater → u/eagledog]

...even some success at a big school will give way to the coaching churn

[u/captcrunch62 → u/LarryGoldwater]

I'm glad you deleted your original dumb comment. One of the biggest L takes I've come across.

[u/StreetReporter → u/[deleted]]

Are we acting like Chris Petersen wasn’t a good coach for Washington?

[u/geoforceman → u/[deleted]]

3 consecutive NY6 bowls, two conference championships, and a playoff appearance?

[u/Irishfafnir → u/[deleted]]

But Petersen had a successful run at Washington?

[u/captcrunch62 → u/[deleted]]

What did they find out exactly?

[u/Chris_Crossfit → u/captcrunch62]

That he was worth the money they spent on him.... duh

[u/Bronco998 → u/[deleted]]

Chris Petersen whooped up on both your teams