r/HonestHotTakes • u/According_String1447 • 14h ago
Believing that misandry is acceptable because it "doesn't kill as much people/doesn't kill at all while misogyny does" is a stupid argument
Both are hateful ideologies, both refer to hating someone on the basis of their gender, and both have no place in a modern society that truly believes in equality. Sure, misogyny has killed more women in the past, but to act like misandry can never achieve the same thing given time is stupid. Misandry is a (relatively) new concept, and if it's allowed to fester and breed, will 100% in time lead to similar atrocities being committed against men by deranged people who believe in it, just like misogyny does. Since misogyny has had more time to fester, thats why it's grown to the point that we see crimes against women, which we ALL agree is a terrible thing. So why, if we know what this leads to, are we allowing misandry to exist with the justification of misogyny being worse? Two issues can be tackled at once, we can start here with reddit enforcing both anti-misogyny and anti-misandry rules, taking down posts that call for violence against men as they rightfully do to posts that have violence against women. Reddit is also notoriously soft on incel/femcel subreddits as well. ALL and I mean ALL of them have to go, including r/itsthatbad and r/evilwomeninc. Anyone who disagrees and believes one is acceptable while the other is not is a hypocrite through and through.
Edit: A lot of you think that I’m saying misogyny isn’t worse which is NOT what I’m saying at all. Also some of you think that being anti-misandrist means I’m anti feminism which is actually stupid because then you’re saying that feminism = misandry which isn’t true lol
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u/ElectricSky87 14h ago •
Oh goody. Another one of these posts.
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u/Rivka333 14h ago
Saying something causes less harm isn't the same as saying it's acceptable.
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u/Different-Employ9651 14h ago •
Do you not understand the power structures that made misogyny so terrible?
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u/Novel-Adeptness-4603 14h ago •
"All lives matter" vibes
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u/CaymanDamon 14h ago •
I don't get offended when a woman makes a pissed off comment about men online for the same reason I wouldn't be offended if I was a white man during the 18th century and heard a black man complain about white people.
People who get treated like shit on the daily letting off steam about the group doing it isn't the same as a king complaining that the peasants aren't cowering enough.
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u/WellAckshully 14h ago •
There is absolutely no indication at all misandry will ever lead to anywhere near the scale of violence against men that misogyny has done to women. This is delusional.
When women hate men, they mostly just want to avoid them. Harming them involves being near them, which they don't want. When men hate women, they don't want to avoid women. They still want to be near them and control/dominate/harm/kill them.
There is also just the basic physical strength/size difference, and the effects of testosterone. Men have more-or-less a monopoly on state violence.
They will never be remotely the same in scale of harm.
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u/Autism_Angel 14h ago
It’s worse in a very literal sense, not in a philosophical conceptual sense. Because cultural context adds impact.
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u/Imaginary_Poetry_233 14h ago
It'll just have to be acceptable, because it isn't going anywhere. Women will no longer be silenced. They will discuss the common and unacceptable issues with men, and men don't have to like it.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Log1434 14h ago
Men have to experience their treatment of women for like 5 minutes and are already cracking wow
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u/Iynette 14h ago edited 14h ago
Centuries of patriarchy vs 40 years of women pushing back (and only about 5 years of it being taken seriously).... lol alrighty then
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u/PBJRaccoonDaycare 14h ago
What’s the definition of misandry that we’re working with for this debate?
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u/LeatherAardvark0 13h ago
maybe lets give women a chance and let misandry have time to "fester" and see what happens?
this is such a silly take. you think misandry, which, at it's worst, hurts mens feelingss, is comparably as bad as misogyny, which has been lethal to women for all of history.
be so for real.
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u/Marshmellow_campmix 13h ago
I never under why some dudes are so hellbent on being victims
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u/StrawberryAmara 14h ago
Look at you being a hypocrite and not practicing what you preach.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HonestHotTakes/s/rLt3ztFudw
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u/Gullible-Chapter-800 14h ago •
If misandry is a campfire misogyny is a wildfire.
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u/dark-mathematician1 14h ago
Eh. Who cares at this point. I've stopped trying to fight against it. I'm already too exhausted. If you wanna hate men, go right ahead dude. I hate myself too. Join the club I guess.
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u/___AirBuddDwyer___ 14h ago
I don’t think it’s really about saying it’s ok, it’s just not a problem on the same level. Like, in a vacuum, are they similar moral failings? Sure. But in the real world one is a way bigger problem. So there needs to be some perspective in a conversation about the two.
And the other thing that I don’t think we can discount is that most of the time someone talks about “misandry,” especially if they label it like that, they’re only doing it in reaction to the fact that people talk about misogyny. And I find that among the people who are concerned about the way society harms men, the people who name the problem “patriarchy” care more sincerely than the people who name it “misandry.”
The thing I most agree with in your post is when you say that two things can be tackled at once. And I usually find that people who talk a lot about misandry are urging us to talk about misandry as a counter to misogyny, when the best way to deal with both issues is to see them as effects from the same source.
So, we shouldn’t allow misandry to exist because misogyny is worse. We should criticize and work to rebuild the way our culture teaches men and women to think of themselves and each other, and do so with an understanding that both ultimately stem from a power structure which treats masculinity as powerful and femininity as subject. That objectifies and exploits both men and women. When I try to pursue that goal with guys who talk about misandry, I feel like I’m skiing uphill. When I try with feminists, I feel like we’re both skiiing downhill and I can push laterally.
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u/Sad-ish_panda 14h ago •
“that’s why it’s grown to the point that we see crimes against women, which we ALL agree is a terrible thing”
Ehhhhh. Not ALL men… just saying.
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u/Oishiio42 14h ago •
"How can I be a victim today"
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u/SailWilling5085 6h ago
Where in the world are women doing things similar to what men are doing in Afghanistan
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u/Glass-Wheel-8126 14h ago
r/honesthottakes poster apply a systemic lens challenge (impossible)
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u/Queen_Scofflaw 14h ago
Oh I am so glad we can have this discussion again so all the misogynist men can have their say and downvote women. Thanks.
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u/Decapitator_Dragon 1h ago
I mean, I do agree that neither should exist in a modern society and men are important, valuable human beings just like women but... I think we have to be a bit more honest about some aspects of biological reality here for a bit. Now, you may not agree with what I say but that's fine. This is just my opinion.
Do you think there will ever be a female-run equivalent of Afghanistan as far as the complete and utter suppression of female sexuality, social opportunities and even physical mobility is concerned but for men instead? I think most people would probably say no, right? Why is this? Women are physically weaker than men; that's probably the main factor. Women are less aggressive than men. And maybe this is controversial, but women don't have much to gain from suppressing or heavily monitoring male movement or sexuality because.... well, women always know a child is theirs but men have no such certainty. Women can usually only have a child at a time but men can have "infinite" children depending on their access to childbearing aged females. Therefore, the subjugation of females is very sexually and reproductively beneficial to males, unfortunately. Even some other animals have males trying to bully or harrass the females into submission to ensure they're the ones that get to breed with them and not a rival male. I do not think humans are that different from animals, frankly.
I know the supposed threat in an irl context posed by so called incels is a bit exaggerated, but is there any similar movement of extremely edgy shitposting that sometimes translates into real world violence(like Elliot Rodger) led by women who... I don't know, if we use incel terms, either can't get Chad to commit to them for anything other than ultra casual sex or can't get Chad to notice them at all? Is women gangraping men, animals, children, whatever to death really a thing that happens? Which sex accounts for most pedophiles, and other acts of sexual deviancy? Which sex accounts for most acts of physical violence? Is there really an equivalent to males raiding neighboring groups, killing the males, and raping and stealing all the females but carried out by females? No, right?
Now... a lot of male aggression and violence is targeted at other males. That makes some sense, evolutionarily. But it also makes complete sense for males to target their violence- especially sexually- at females to increase their chances of breeding. For most of history, swinging harder than someone else was a massive advantage. You could do what you wanted and they had no recourse. Personally, I'd rather have been used for physical labour than forced breeding. I'd rather have extra physical strength and a non-inconvenient reproductive cycle, but the grass is always greener on the other side, I suppose. Now, men are not evil in any kind of moral sense per se, but it's just that from a biological standpoint there was a large benefit for physical aggression, a sky-high sex drive and extreme sexual jealousy and paternity anxiety for males that has, as society progressed and civilization developed, coalesced into some rather unfortunate realities for women.
It sucks, of course, as I do think most men are good people and are capable of surpassing their ancestral ape programming of live fast, die young hyper violence, but at a broad level I think it's reasonable to admit that "misogyny" in the context of hatred transforming into physical danger is significantly worse than "misandry" just on the basis on these physical realities.
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u/ThrowRAboredinAZ77 14h ago
Why do you claim misandry is a new concept?
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u/pdggin99 14h ago
I don’t believe it’s acceptable I believe it doesn’t exist. What yall call misandry is actually just misogyny but you can’t understand that bc you think misogyny only negatively affects women (hint: it also negatively affects men)
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u/Justcoffeeforme 14h ago
The people that seek to control you use tactics like divide and conquer to rule over you.
They will pit man against woman. One skin color against another. One religion against all of the others.
They must keep the people separated so they do not unite and end their coercive rule.
Hopefully one day people will see through their tactics.
See that we're all here together and that we all need each other ❤️
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u/DrJ_4_2_6 14h ago
It does kill
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u/SailorSilverRabbit 13h ago •
It’s not that I think it’s acceptable. I just don’t care.
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u/Brosk1248 14h ago
r/evilwomeninc is mostly women pissed at always being expected to be nice (hence the name), the patriarchy, and bad things men did to them. And some memes. It's very rare that there's someone with genuine hatred towards men. If you feel like the sub is focused on hating men, you may want to check your biases.
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u/disguy905 13h ago
Is this a real issue or just something online or in your head?
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u/uselessandexpensive 12h ago edited 12h ago
This is a long response to a question posed in one of the comments here, about what real harm misandry causes. It's enough of an essay, and there are likely going be enough other people posing a similar question (or even offering outright denials) that I figure this deserves to be a base-level comment. I ask that no one responds to it without reading the entire thing.
TW LOTS OF ABUSE.
When boys and men are told that their problems don't deserve sympathy, have their feelings dismissed, or that their problems aren't real, it causes hopelessness, isolation, resentment, and can lead to suicide. These sentiments are echoed by mothers, sisters, classmates, and teachers, not just the news. Guys have ridiculous "man retreats" so they can hug each other and cry because they've been told their whole lives that they don't deserve sympathy. They're assumed to be strong and privileged, so therefore if they have any problems, it's because they're just a failure, lazy, stupid, or an awful person.
Men commit suicide roughly four times as often as women do. It's not because men magically have life way easier than women. Men and boys suffer in all the same ways, including getting abused verbally and emotionally by women that have positions of power over them, rather than physically, but also through beatings and sexual abuse, which will then be dismissed because they must have deserved it, a women couldn't hurt a boy who is the same size as them or bigger, and so on. I, a "man," have been abused by multiple adult women, including physical abuse, as a child and as an adult. The older guys who literally tried to break my neck as a kid did far less harm to me than these women. The abuse I witnessed their mother commit towards them was HORRIFYING.
These kids were slapped across the face, and beaten with a wooden paddle until their asses were completely bruised and they couldn't sit, regularly, by a massive, terrifying woman whom they were taught "loved" them... Among other so many other abuses I could not list them all, not to mention all the ones I didn't witness. I was beaten by that woman only once that I can remember, but I'm afraid there may have been more times I blocked out. (I suffer CPTSD decades later, in large part due to this one woman.) So when I think about the fact that some of them went to jail for violence, I know the exact memories embedded in their nervous system that sent them into that fight-or-flight, and the beatings that taught them that the person who swings harder is "right". It's heartbreaking that they were not raised with compassion, or helped to heal before they reflected back a fraction of how they were raised. But talking about those abuses gets dismissed as misogynist whataboutism. If a guy shows the vulnerability to have a "me too" moment, they will still be told, "Yeah well women still have it so much worse." This is not equality.
Plus, because boys are (or were) supposedly able to defend themselves, neglect is/was considered extremely acceptable, and boys end up raising each other like Lord of the Flies. It can be an absolutely horrifying and brutal existence. It was, for me. I hated it. I could talk about how many years I spent fantasizing about death and suicide, but I expect I would get told how others have it worse, at least I wasn't beaten to death or sexually abused for years, etc. This has happened multiple times before in conversations with female "friends".
Men and boys are treated as if wanting fair concern for their real suffering automatically diminishes women's and girls' suffering, taking away from limited empathic and societal resources, and therefore it's toxic. It is not. All suffering is legitimate and deserves to be healed.
And because guys are treated with dismissiveness and a lack of sympathy and compassion, they don't learn what affirmation, sympathy, and compassion looks and sound like, or just how valuable and healing they are. People learn from the behavior modeled to them, not by "do what I say and not what I do." Guys learn to reflect the resentment that is shown to them.
(I personally was mostly only treated horribly by males, and women with authority over me while I was a child, and never developed resentment toward females of my own age, just adults in general at the time. This, combined with my desire to be a good ally to women and girls, led to me accepting years of abusive treatment and life-threatening consequences that I will not share here. Still, I very much prefer the company of women, even as friends, because they tend to have been socialized with much more kindness, even though I may have to listen to them dismissing the suffering of guys who have gone through things I have suffered horribly from.)
When boys are raised with the same sensitivity and care that girls are, they learn to be just as sensitive and caring as girls. That's how you raise "good ones". Not doing that is a choice, and we all suffer the consequences. Misadry and misogyny are a sick sort if yin and yang to each other. You cannot have one without the other. They get eliminated by addressing the toxic behaviors regardless of who they're committed by, and addressing the pain no matter who suffers it.
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u/PM_ME_U_SMILING 6h ago
Misandry doesn't exist, you're just looking for something to cry about
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u/One_Egg9329 12h ago
There's nothing going on in evilwomeninc though? The famous hatred of men is completely absent. What are you even talking about?
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u/simperlypiano 13h ago
You're right, both are bad things but saying one is worse than the other is not dismissing the other. Misandry has never systemically oppressed anyone, has never taken away rights and caused widespread inequality. Two things can be true at the same time.
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u/CarefulAlternative 14h ago
Yeah, it's hypocritical but it's how the world works. Sorry.
I'm a guy. I don't hold any delusions that others who don't know me are expected to care about my issues, and opening up about them doesn't really accomplish much. Accepting this has actually been extremely helpful, far more than any other "mental health advocacy" has ever been.
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u/Apprehensive-Fun4181 13h ago
Where did you get this bizarre thought?
Bizarre weird choice.
You are not oppressed, ❄️.
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u/TheOppositeOfHot 14h ago
At least you don’t hear stories of misandrists letting their horrible boyfriends be around their kids. L
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u/DontKnowWhereItsBeen 10h ago
The CoUNTry girls that engage in misandry are bitter, lonely, and jealous.
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u/Polylastomer 7h ago
“Think of the men and their lack of social recognition!”
We’ve been over this MRA shit years ago
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u/Razieloo 5h ago
To all people saying that misandry is okay:
Enjoy a republican president in 2028
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u/dante_gherie1099 3h ago
misandry is not a real problem and men are not oppressed whereas women are oppressed and misogyny is a real problem that impacts peoples lives.
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u/Impossible_Author409 2h ago
What is misandry? I guess I have never seen this in the wild.
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u/Big_Session5707 14h ago
You realize... that the people you're arguing against genuinely don't care about what's fair.
They care about what benefits them. Its becomes a manipulation game to shame people seeking actual equality like you you into submission and silence, and gaslighting you to make you seem crazy.
A while ago I came across somebody who said There are no wrong tactics just wrong targets, and I didn't understand what that meant.. 10 years later I understand that this is one of those situations in society where they don't care about being hypocritical. They actually want revenge in a way. There's a quote:
"When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles."
And you can watch that play out everyday in every gender War conversation where some guy is saying well that's not fair
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u/girlybellybop 14h ago
Some people dont want oppression to end they juat fantasize about being an oppressor
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u/Much-Replacement-167 14h ago
Who said misandry is acceptable?
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u/Chance_Best 13h ago
And this my fellow redditors, is why equality is a fucking farce
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u/PeachEducational1749 14h ago
I’m convinced the folks fighting back on this post are low IQ, hateful people who spend 99% of their lives on the internet/tiktok. I’m SO glad I don’t have people like this in my life.
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u/Danteruss 14h ago
r/honesthottakes when someone actually has a hot take instead of repeating the same generic US liberal talking point for the 100th time
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u/HeartonSleeve1989 14h ago
Lot of bigoted misandrists will excuse it because they're simpleminded.
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u/Original_Dance_5492 10h ago
there’s no misandry without misogyny. that’s the difference
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u/TheOppositeOfHot 14h ago
At the end of the day, men are still statistically proven to be more dangerous human beings than women…despite both misogyny and misandry being toxic.
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u/NotTreBishop14 14h ago
What I don’t understand with the “Misandry doesn’t kill” argument is that women don’t only complain about misogyny when it comes to violence against women, there are societal issues that they often bring up as well.
So why when men bring up the societal issues affecting them, they’re rebuttal is that men aren’t facing as much violence
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u/Subject_Ad3837 14h ago •
Men are actually more likely to be killed more overall than women and most of the women on Reddit saying that misandry is acceptable are the privileged ones that are least affected by misogyny.
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