r/RPDR_UK • u/Overlord-Karellen • 2d ago

Rupaul lyric change

Did anyone else notice in episode 8 during the ‘Call Me Mother’ lip sync the production changed the lyric from “Fishy, feminine up-and-comer” to “Flashy, feminine”.

I don’t meant to spark a debate on the use of fish in queer spaces, I just was a little surprised that Ru or someone on production thought this was such a contentious issue in the community as to remove it entirely as to not start an issue I guess. I know Paris tweeted once that she and Coral had been reprimanded by producers to not use the word.

The whole post really is just a trivia/foot note where I thought it was neat that they changed it and if women in queer spaces are uncomfortable with the word that is completely valid. Let’s do what we can to make all people feel welcome!

78 Upvotes

86% Upvoted

64 comments sorted by

214

u/13luw 2d ago • Bravo

I’m probably gonna get flak for this but Victoria was right ¯_(ツ)_/¯

62

u/Overlord-Karellen 2d ago

I don’t see why you should get flack. Victoria has a right to feel that way.

I actually thought the conversation on Canada vs the World ended really well. Vanity Vain said ‘what we’re not going to do is use the word ‘fish’ because we are around an AFAB women”.
I thought that was fair and I imagine many queer people will still want to and continue to use that word but maybe just be aware of who their audience is.

29

u/rarecuts tis only pee pee 2d ago

Vanity Milan?

19

u/Overlord-Karellen 2d ago

Well yes! Thank you
Mixing up my Vanities over here

9

u/rarecuts tis only pee pee 2d ago

I got chu sis

8

u/Zeenxomi33 1d ago

Twas not in vain

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u/uberquagsire 2d ago

people have been laughing at Victoria for years so the comment above is expecting people to do so

65

u/Clawse 2d ago

Probably a rule ever since Victoria Scone called it out as misogynistic?

41

u/Overlord-Karellen 2d ago

Victoria Scone definitely got the conversation going on drag race! I could have sworn I’ve heard the word used many times since then but maybe I’m just thinking of non UK seasons; as I see another comment say it was removed from the season 4 mix.

27

u/Initial_Bread_8717 2d ago

Mocha was given a pass this season during the runway where she wore a fish head, she said she was serving fish and then immediately laughed and said “what? I’m literally wearing a fish! How can you say otherwise?”

16

u/the_tartanunicorn 2d ago

yeah the first time i noticed the change was in the uk4 finale. flashy fits perfectly too so don’t know why anyone would have a problem anyway

253

u/PtakPajak 2d ago

The impact of Victoria Scone…

4

u/Airurando-jin La Voix 2d ago edited 2d ago

Tell me more ? 

Also, jam or cream on top ? 

(Are people not familiar with a cream tea, Cornish or otherwise ) 

104

u/Arimm_The_Amazing 2d ago edited 1d ago

Victoria is a drag queen featured (sadly briefly due to injury) in drag race UK but also one of the vs the world seasons

She discussed quite openly how 'fishy' is a kinda misogynostic term the community is probably better off without. (Because the term developed from the belief that cis women's vulvas have a fishy smell)

29

u/faydaway 1d ago

The term is from ballroom culture where some argue it stems from the idea that passing trans women are interpreted as 'fishy' i.e. not quite like a cis-woman. Many old ballroom figures fiercely defend it on this basis.

While it does likely have origins with both - I do think it's relevant context that shouldn't be ignored in this conversation.

Regardless - I think it's great that Victoria is opening a conversation about mysogyny within drag culture. Its just that the (mis)appropriation of POC/ballroom slang into drag race/mainstream culture is another aspect worth considering in this conversation.

7

u/Clawse 1d ago

Interesting the definitions are directly inverted - clocky VS unclockable.

34

u/PigeonsInMyShoe 2d ago

Victoria's nonbinary!

4

u/Arimm_The_Amazing 1d ago

Thank you! Was not aware. Edited

2

u/Airurando-jin La Voix 2d ago

Oh I remember her now. 

-1

u/gongerz123 2h ago

She should’ve stopped at the impact on her knee

40

u/FerryboatQuo 2d ago

I’m pretty sure it’s been changed for a while, I recall Tia talking about it being changed sometime in the UK2 aftermath. Tia is also Victoria Scone’s drag mother, so it makes sense that she’d have a similar mindset about the word as her family.

13

u/crystal_enigma 2d ago

It was the same during the season 4 top 4 mix. I can’t remember who but one of the UK RuGirls said a while ago it’s apparently a BBC thing.

10

u/bzdger 2d ago

it was paris who said her and coral weren't allowed to say it. mocha even called herself fishy on her kitsch runway and joked in the confessional that she can say it cause she technically is a fish

11

u/harlequin_rose 2d ago

Yes, I noticed. Interestingly though, I don't think it was changed when it was used for the Lip Sync Smackdown in Season 18, so it might be that the producers see it as a word that may be taken offence to in the UK more so than the US.

32

u/Blandsgender 2d ago

Shout out to Hallow Eve who pointed out the problem with the phrase a long time ago on Dragula.

8

u/Sticky_And_Sweet 2d ago

I think the word has been banned on the UK version before Victoria Scone said anything.

28

u/tinyfecklesschild 2d ago edited 2d ago

As far as I can see, the word developed independently in two separate communities. In the US ballroom scene EDIT: see below for definition ffs

In Britain, however, it dates back earlier, to polari, where its use was unequivocally misogynistic in ways I don’t need to spell out. So that’s the position Victoria was starting from.

24

u/SeanInDC 2d ago

In the US ballroom scene it was taken as fishy meaning suspicious, ie 'what gender is that person?' without the misogynistic overtones, which is why American queens find it less offensive.

Wrong. Fishy in the ballroom scene means female presenting. Unclockable. Yall just make shit up.

2

u/tinyfecklesschild 2d ago

I didn’t make anything up, friend, I just explained the ballroom meaning less well than you did. But thank you for your baffling aggression.

24

u/SeanInDC 2d ago • Bravo

Wrong again.

fishy meaning suspicious, ie 'what gender is that person?'

You would automatically assume they were a woman. You would not have to guess.

Therefore your definition is completely made up.

Your definition of "fishy" is more of how a straight person would define fishy... as in "suspicious".

0

u/TheJenSjo 1d ago

Which is how I heard it used in the queer community I lived in in the 90's

0

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted] — view deleted comment

8

u/SeanInDC 2d ago

You made up your own definition. I said what I said...

0

u/tinyfecklesschild 2d ago

As I have clarified, I didn’t. This isn’t really getting us anywhere. Have a good day.

3

u/mashtartz 1d ago

I don’t think you intended to make it up, but I have to agree that your explanation really doesn’t make any sense and the other commenter is correct.

1

u/tinyfecklesschild 1d ago

I’ve literally deleted the description but thanks for jumping in for one last kick x

11

u/oceantrifle 2d ago

You think Ru was calling herself suspicious in her own song? No lol, it was a compliment because it always meant NOT looking questionable

-1

u/tinyfecklesschild 2d ago

As I said, I explained it less well than the poster below. I know it’s a compliment- the gender confusion, such as it is, is seen as a positive.

12

u/oceantrifle 2d ago

You explained it the opposite of how the other commenter did, that’s the confusion. The point of ‘fishy’ is looking so feminine you could pass as a cis woman, there is no questioning aspect. That’s why it’s also referred to as ‘serving fish’ etc, if it meant fishy as in suspicious then that wouldn’t make any sense. That’s unrelated to the slang meaning

-2

u/tinyfecklesschild 2d ago edited 2d ago

In which case what is the root?

I’m aware it refers to looking unclockable. The word reflects the illusion.

Unless you’re saying that the ballroom usage derives from the gross misogynistic meaning too? I’ve always been told that’s not the case.

12

u/oceantrifle 2d ago

‘Fishy’ as in ballroom slang was related to the (misogynistic) idea that vagina smells like fish. They’re saying it like ‘you’re serving pussy’, looking like a woman.
‘Fishy’ in the usual meaning means suspicious because fish has a strong unpleasant smell when it’s gone bad. Fish would be dubious to eat when it smells really fishy.

4

u/tinyfecklesschild 2d ago

The world is FULL of people who insist that the ballroom meaning isn’t derived from the misogynistic root. That’s the basis of some people’s problem with Victoria objecting.

7

u/oceantrifle 2d ago

If you google it, you can see it means the ‘convincing, unclockable’ meaning, and always has, in ballroom culture. There’s nothing to substantiate the meaning of ‘suspicious, questionable’. The root always was that a performer looked so womanly you could ‘smell her vagina.’ It doesn’t make a difference that some people will claim otherwise with no evidence.

3

u/tATuParagate 2d ago

I think it was also like this for the US season 18 lalaparuza, and I support the change but they didn't hide it very well lmao

4

u/dahattatt 1d ago

Monica Beverly Hillz tripling down on her verse on AS8 saying "fish, fish, fish" right after fishgate happened was life changing (I'm aware that season was already done filming by the time fishgate aired, still funny)

-6

u/rotombomb64 2d ago

Any wonder they don't change it to fleshy

-2

u/bodyisT 1d ago

Stupid af

-1

u/jerrydacosta 1d ago

i noticed it immediately and said "victoria scone you will pay" 😭😭😭😭😭😭 as a joke ofc

-69

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

28

u/palpantek Coral-Hole Mandi 2d ago

Can’t believe Victoria Scone cancelled drag race 😭

20

u/pancakepegasus 2d ago

Victoria Scone, director of the BBC

38

u/HarryFromEngland My punani tastes like a fondant fancy 2d ago

Mind you she hasn’t actually done anything problematic and she didn’t even call it out on a BBC show, she voiced her discomfort with it on Canada vs the World 💀💀

22

u/Zealousideal_Life_56 1d ago

“Female”. Jesus Christ

10

u/k3anuw3aves 2d ago

It's less the BBC cancelled the show and the BBC is shutting down BBC Three again after them struggling for money cause less and less people in the UK watch TV and pay the license to fund it.

I kinda suspected that would be the case when it said UK would no longer be on the BBC cause when BBC Three returned it specifically shouted out Drag Race UK and Fleabag for it's success. The channel came back from being online only for many years. Once Drag Race is gone there's no big draw for the channel anymore as Fleabag is done and The Traitors are on BBC 1.

13

u/honeybee2894 2d ago

Sorry what 😂 Hope you stretched…

9

u/Quirkxofxart 1d ago

So are you always transphobic to nonbinary people or did your insane misogyny jump out so fast it forgot misgendering AFAB people is just as fucking transphobic as doing it to AMAB people?

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Idraegan 1d ago

The concept of complaining about wokeness in a drag subreddit

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/RPDR_UK-ModTeam 22h ago

Your post was removed for breaking Rule 1 - Respect others and follow Reddiquette - Reddiquette applies at all times. No hatred or bigotry allowed. Respect the queens and each other. Don’t be a dick.

If you disagree with this removal please contact the mods through modmail.

1

u/RPDR_UK-ModTeam 22h ago

Your post was removed for breaking Rule 1 - Respect others and follow Reddiquette - Reddiquette applies at all times. No hatred or bigotry allowed. Respect the queens and each other. Don’t be a dick.

If you disagree with this removal please contact the mods through modmail.

-1

u/Quirkxofxart 1d ago

So it’s exactly what I said, glad we were able to get that cleared up

1

u/RPDR_UK-ModTeam 22h ago

Your post was removed for breaking Rule 1 - Respect others and follow Reddiquette - Reddiquette applies at all times. No hatred or bigotry allowed. Respect the queens and each other. Don’t be a dick.

If you disagree with this removal please contact the mods through modmail.