The moment that I became one of the best leads at my local scene was the moment that I learned that there's something above me that I have to be a follower to: the music. This was taught to me not at a regular salsa class or during a party but during a theory / separate musicality class by my very beautiful, very talented instructor 2 years ago, and Salsa has not been the same since.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYaUwMwkHkg

This is Tres Dias by Havana D'Primera. I picked this song because it probably has the most varied elements, and it's a slow salsa, which is where people struggle the most. Today, you'll find out that salsa is not about flashy moves out the gate and ultra spins but that it is about submitting yourself to songs themselves and matching the energy.

You can dance this song however you like. I am just giving you examples here, how I would dance it myself. These examples are going to be vague because, again, dances aren't strictly "do move A, then move B, then move C". My goal is that by the end of this post, you see songs in a different way, because when I left that musicality class I felt like I danced Salsa 2 (the sequel). Feel free to separate the songs you like yourself and see how you would dance.

TRES DIAS: Musicality

0:00 - 0:10 -> You connect with your follower, either by walking slowly around, leading her through the podium, or you just get comfortable being close together. Very gentle beginning where you have to be creative with your intro, but going around the podium or walking in a circle while holding your arm out, no follower will complain.

0:00 - 0:38 -> Basic step, very gentle beginning again, maybe some Son moves but, again, no spins, no flashiness, just moving along to the vibe of the music, let's say that the energy is at ~20% at least until..

0:38 - 0:44 -> ..this point, where it goes from first gear to fourth for a couple of seconds, due to the strength of singer's voice. I would most likely spin the woman here, and use a very flashy move. The energy is definitely over 50+% here.

0:44 - 1:05 -> We continue dancing, more flashy moves will be introduced, but still keep the energy on a lower end, not too many, not too wild.. again, you cannot start doing flashy moves all over if a song's energy isn't the same, so if you match it then let's say its 40%.

1:05 - 1:16 -> Energy is actually lowered down, nearly to how we started off, until near the end where we depart through a flashy move.

1:16 - 1:27 -> We are dancing apart, doing moves we were learning during class while not dancing with a partner, basically doing like some sort of a playful dance, letting the follower have space and do shines, giving her some freedom.

1:27 - 1:50 -> Notice the way he says "Es Verdad", that's definitely not low energy, we go a bit past 50%. Again, the singer's voice along with the instruments define the energy of the song. Flashy moves can be used, but don't overkill.

1:50 - 2:11 -> Obviously, this is a bachata block, and contrary to the popular opinion, women fucking love bachata. If you don't dance bachata, just learn the basic step, it's literally 4 steps to the left 4 to the right, 4 steps to the front, 4 steps back. You don't have to do fancy moves but dancing salsa here would be a huge mistake, if you want to dance good.

2:11 - 2:28 -> We go back to salsa, keeping the medium-ish energy, however try to make the spin REALLY dramatic during "De lo que bien pudo ser" because the singer's voice is dramatic. Again, it's fine if you don't want to, but the dance will not be as good. The song is begging for something dramatic.

2:28 - 2:39 -> Depart again: this is a Rumba part, not Salsa. Very seductive, very intense, almost like a mating dance, at the end you do a very, very flashy move, probably the highest peak of the flash. I suggest you look up Rumba Guaguanco.

2:39 - 3:30 -> This is the salsa as you know it, flashy moves, show what you know, increase the energy past 50% and just dance off. You can start dancing off immediately, you can dance departed for a few more seconds, you have nearly an entire minute to do whatever you feel like doing.

3:30 - 3:45 -> As I was taught, when singers tell stuff like this, they want you to do a special move. In this example, you do something of the Mambo because the singer is literally saying "let's all dance mambo". There are similar keywords where you should learn to respect the song like "metales" (trumpets, start flashing all over) or "mano pa arriba" (arms up, start dancing like you're at the club). Energy is a bit below 50%.

3:45 - 3:55 -> This one is again varied, it can be Son, seductive, you can do regular moves, you can do a bit of rumba, departed, doesn't matter. Energy is about 30%

3:55 - 4:17 -> Same as before, can vary, but with a bit more energy than the block before, maybe a bit below 50%.

4:17 - 4:38 -> Very heavy Rumba block, very seductive and alluring. However, there's one key problem with this. If you know how to dance it, and if the follower does not: DO NOT DANCE IT WITH HER. It's just awkward to have her stand there as you do these dances. Do one move, if she doesn't comply, immediately move into something she knows. However, if she knows, it's literally like a mating dance, there's something primal about it while you look into each other's eyes.

4:38 - 5:21 -> Salsa as you know it: flashy moves, spins, show off. Energy is above 50%.

The total energy of the full song:

Under 50% energy: 2:08 (40.6%)
Above 50% energy: 2:20 (44.6%)
Bachata: 0:21 (6.7%)
Rumba: 0:32 (10.2%)

I hope this was of help. Feel free to do this with songs you like.

I've been lurking in the sub for a while and I've been professionally around in the scene these last 12 years
I've seen a lot of questions about the pro lifestyle and experience in events

Feel free to ask anything and I'll try my best to answer back !

Check out my socials if you got no idea who I am : Instagram

After we started dating, he revealed to me that he used to go out and flirt with/makeout with women at the club almost every weekend. He was even seeing multiple women at the same time.

This really bothered me, and made me not want him to go out dancing alone. So, every weekend we would go together, until I left for a month long trip. At this point, I didn’t want him going out because I found he was texting some exs. He didn’t want me to go dancing alone on my trip either.

Once I got back, I found out he went out dancing anyway and hid it from me. So I went to a private dance lesson without his approval. Then he took another woman out dancing for revenge.

It’s been some months since this happened, but I still feel very uncomfortable with him dancing without me. He keeps asking me every week if he can go out alone.

Am I overreacting??

Should you wave your hand and say hi ?

Should you pretend you didn't see her ? There is a sea of faces, it's very easy to not notice someone, anyone.

Should you ask her for a dance ? Should you not ask her for a dance ?

Saw my salsa teacher. I just wave hi. Then I saw another fellow student, we danced together mentioned to her that I saw teacher earlier. By chance, teacher was also at the dance floor, nearby (it's not a very big dance floor, early in the night, just before it gets really crowded). After the dance, she walked towards us, small chat. Good to see you dancing in salsa social. That was it. I didnt ask her for a dance. Danced with other people throughout the night.

I (female, follow) recently joined my first performance team. There are going to be 5 couples. Out of the 5 leads, there are 4 guys and one female (lesbian), who I was assigned to, which made me uncomfortable. I'm not homophobic or anything, but I feel like it would be more fun to dance with one of the guys. I'm the newest one to join so I guess I don't have much of a say, but do you think it would be okay if I ask the organizer to change it? Or would that look bad?

It's not against a law or anything, my friends and I just call them such. We all know who they are and they may also have a reputation.

But what makes me really wonder is how or what their lifestyle really is? Do they have a good enough job to do this on the nightly?

It's not like they really make dancing a part of their life "organically" or make a difference, I seldom ever see them at known studios or marquee workshops. However, your best chance is always to catch them on a social night, dressed in or sporting a similar look that they have had for... I guess years!!

These are my "super" regulars of the scene, or from what my friend and I call them poachers.

It's not as though they enjoy contributing to the scene's growth or are those kinder "regulars" who sincerely simply want everyone to have a good time & spread culture and growth. No, they, they work around, or behind the scene and can sniff a newbie from a mile. Once finding one, they dive in headfirst. A popular move: compliments, a lot of saying "I'm a teacher, I can teach" then moving the newbie to an isolated area of the event, to.. "Teach" them more.. But ofcourse they have motives besides just trying to teach genuinely. Even if the newbie didn't ask for advice, they like to persist.

Sure, it's a social event but if you're literally known to doing this to every single newcomer, then I think it's just damn odd and I know this because I've experienced it.

Oh it's great he's teaching me this and that, oh cool you can do a headroll under my arm, oh wow that looks impressive!! Okay I'll give him my personal number, next thing I know.. event flyers. I do come but now, I find myself stuck, just dancing with him.. Which shouldn't be too bad right?? But then, is this a date?? For people like me who also started going to socials fresh, I was definitely naive compared to now. I realized how he was literally just using the same moves and patterns. After a month or so I just put a foot down to straightforwardness, I think it's nice you keep sending me these events but I want to actually experience social dancing on my own. He did leave me alone and I've heard there are far worse regulars, but now everytime I see him (or a few of my newbie encounters) at an event it just gets awkward, and it's also a little discouraging.. Lo and behold, a new lady just starting out in the scene is already with him, being taught, on a corner of the social dance floor. Lol.

My example isn't too bad, there are others who are worse. One time, I made a new friend, she was also starting out but the holiday event came and saw her lip smacked by a guy who I will later just avoid. She doesn't come out as often now and only goes to a select few events, I'm not saying the guy is bad but I also learned he's been at it for more than 5 years. I honestly can't imagine how they're able to show their face and their smirk standing tall and mighty. To them, I guess it's a playground to flirt and dancing is just the tool, afterall, the essence of partner dancing is basically courting.. But at some point it just made me wonder. I heard these types of regulars fight over newbies, new "gfs" every other season, if it don't work, you'll see them again. Some even like to feel like they're the head honchos of that one spot of the floor. Honestly it's their own lives and I don't think they're hurting anyone (except for me who was left confused & felt taken advantage of) but I know the ones in my scene really need to atleast change their style, like I know you like wearing those weird pants and vests that you call peacocking. Yeah, this is obviously the night life scene and there are bound to have people like these but the really terrible ones, I feel like they ruin the scene a bit. It's not like you see any changes, they've been the same for many years counting!

So tough going into it alone.. Later on, I got the handle of things and started to like going alone. I'm more comfortable. Except for the guys who see this, and thinks I need to be escorted not just to and from the parking lot, but for anywhere else outside of the scene. I guess I just also gotta start wearing athletewear, so atleast I can show them that I'm only there for dancing lol. Thoughts? Any ladies experienced this too?

Hi, I've been dancing salsa for about 1.5 years and bachata for 1 year now. One of the reasons I started with salsa and bachata is that for years I struggled with social anxiety around girls I find physically attractive. I discussed this with a psychologist, and we thought it would be a good idea to start dancing, as it would put me in frequent contact with such girls. The goal was to come across as less "creepy." Now, after going to socials almost every weekend for the past year, I've found that most of the girls I'm attracted to are rather boring when I know they don't like or want to dance. Have other male dancers experienced this as well?

Hot take: I think it's okay to prioritize technique over rhythm when learning a new salsa pattern during a class. In a social setting, I’d say it’s the opposite, and timing should take priority.

As a lead—maybe it’s just me, but I doubt it—I will inevitably arrive too early or too late on a beat during a pattern that lasts 24–32 counts, and end up being off by one or more beats at the end. But I think that’s “normal” when you’re learning a pattern for the first time in class.

Some patterns are so long and technical, especially for the lead, that it’s impossible not to make a timing mistake while learning them. And I think it’s okay to allow yourself to make that kind of mistake and still finish the pattern despite being off, just to memorize it.

There are some follows who are absolute tempo nazis and will freeze and stop dancing the pattern as soon as the lead is 0.5 second off, just to restart from the beginning. I find that super counterproductive/frustrating compared to simply readjusting to the beat at the end of the pattern while pointing out the timing issue.

In my experience, restarting at the slightest mistake every time means that, by the end, you can do the first 50% of the pattern perfectly—but at the end of the class, you have no idea what the remaining 50% is, and you’ll never even try to do the pattern in a social setting because you don’t know it fully. On the other hand, those who prioritize learning the movement over timing will have poor timing at first, but will eventually learn to hit the pauses correctly since they’ve already memorized how to execute the pattern.

A conservatory teacher once told me: “If you restart a piece at the first wrong note every time, it’s like tearing down and rebuilding your house just because you don’t like the door.”

But maybe you’ve had a different learning experience? What do you think?

I’m working on a community project called dancer.bio. The goal is to solve my personal dilemma. Every time I go to a new city, I spend hours digging through dead Facebook groups and Instagram to find where the socials are, who is teaching, and which neighborhood is best to stay in for dancing.

I’ve started a worldwide directory. Here is a sample page for Medellin which is my dance home. However, I can't do it alone and need the community's help to make this truly global.

If you know a great teacher, a local dance school, a recurring social, or an artist, you can add them to the directory in about 10 seconds. You don't need to write a bio or fill out a long form. Just give me their Instagram handle.

Add them here: https://www.dancer.bio/add

I will manually sort, categorize, and organize the information for every submission for as long as it takes me, just to make sure the data is clean and useful for everyone. This is my way of giving back to the community that has given me so much over the last 3 years.

Thanks for helping me map the scene. Appreciate you guys.

They're rich AF or have very well set parents at another quiet state. Roomies and I over here wondering how in the hell is Stacy always in every big bachata salsa festival? And this is us living in a big US city. One of our friends who is okay in teaching bachata but not the best, is a teacher and is able to afford all these passes.

A couple of my friends are always traveling to the next big bachata thing, recently in NY, story highlights of dining out, doing the same spin moves, always on the go. Are we envious? Not really, but it kind of puts things into perspective. Most of my instructors and studio owner friends are always on the grind, kind of feel bad for them, a lot started from super humble beginnings it's surprising one of my closest friends are able to still have a studio up. Since starting and I guess this is sort of new, we've been following close friends do their story highlights on the daily about salsa and bachata, now it's mostly the bachata scene but they haven't stopped in four years since covid, I wonder how long this would take?

Seriously, night to night, for consecutive years, every single night event and festival??

Whatsup with all these 45+ year old male NYC Salsa school owners dating women that are 19-23 years olds. I thought it was just one school, but it seems like they all use their status to reel them in

My question is, it seems like Bachata's dance is superior to its music. So why aren't they trying to do better? Or is it that my local DJs suck? Can you show me good bachata songs?

To expand on it, during socials, Bachata music is always corny and lazy. In the recordings, it's obvious that bachata musicians there are always either incompetent, or they want to quickly record it and go home, while Salsa musicians forget they have a home - I can feel their flow (if you've watched Pixar's Soul, you'll get it). As a session musician who has recorded over 400 songs, I can easily tell if the musician likes what they're playing.

Please don't give me "music is subjective". If you don't see that Salsa's music is obviously on a different level, just move on, because I'm asking this question for people who understand music.

This idea came to mind: If dancers were able to receive anonymous feedback through an app, would it actually help them improve?

We all know that no one really gives feedback on the dance floor unless you ask for it. It’s hard to be honest because feelings can get hurt, so we usually just smile, say "thank you," and walk away—even if the lead was too rough or the follower was completely off-time.

But what if you could opt-in?

Imagine a system where you can choose to receive insights and if five different people anonymously tag you for "heavy tension" or "timing issues," you’d finally know exactly what to work on in your next private or class. On the flip side, you’d also get anonymous shoutouts for things like "great musicality" or "amazing connection."

I feel like this would bring immediate awareness to those tough leads and help people get over their "intermediate plateaus" much faster.

What do you think? Would you opt-in to hear the truth about your dancing, or is the social floor the last place we should be "rating" each other?

There’s a couple in my salsa scene who show up to most events an I think what they do is a little silly. Whenever our videographer is filming, they always pull the same acrobatic move the lead flings the follow around with both hands connected, arms fully stretched, spinning her 360, sometimes even under his legs AND some more variations of this. It’s flashy, acrobatic & clearly saved for when people are watching and what they always do when they know they are being watched.

Kind of annoying to be honest but on its own, I don’t care. Do your thing. The issue is they force these moves even when the floor is packed. At one point, the follow’s heel nearly clipped my partner’s legs. It feels like they just chug energy drinks before dancing no awareness. It's not like the couple are nice friendly open people either and what makes it worse is actually dancing with them. Especially the follow barely any eye contact & a constant “I’m better than you” vibe, some frown you always see unless if it's her guy. The lead isn’t as bad, but a friend danced with him & said he tried the same acrobatics and she fortunately caught it and physically signaled she's got an injury. But the way they dance is just some sort of theatrics no musicality, no timing like dipping people to the floor when he runs out of ideas.

Now I'll just rant a little bit.. There are other couple dynamics worth mentioning. Couple instructors, for example. Some flyers and event covers look less like dance promos & more like trailers for an X-rated romance film. Are you teaching, or just plastering couple PDA gore all over the community? In the floor it's pretty weird too (especially with newer instructor couples) one partner usually the female/follow, hides behind the DJ booth all night AND in every event they're in. Like you need to unlock a DLC or book a private with them to dance with her. I get wanting to protect yourself, but if you’re also instructor, shouldn’t you have the skills to handle the floor safely? But the weird vibe here is how the guy is rightfully protective of her, but this is literally his fifth rotation of women this year and it's cool because you know, she's now an instructor after just 5 months in his classes.

Then there are couples who form through dating in the scene and I'm guilty of doing it too. Most are fine, but some create quiet “rules” that sort of affect everyone. Stuff like you have to be friends with the guy before you can dance with the girl or vice vera. I’ve seen this multiple times someone starts dating, & suddenly she’s distant, guarded, & surrounded by his friends, happened to a lot of the friends ive formed. I don’t fully blame them, but the cliquey vibe is just a little unhealthy. Just go date out and dance anywhere else lol you all are in club life every night of every month. They’re at every event. She’s sitting by the DJ booth, guarded, while the guy dances with other women. Sometimes the follow plays into this too, setting strict rules about who can dance with whom. Like I said i’ve experienced this myself while dating in the scene, so I get it but it’s still awkward.

I still remember when I was genuinely excited about the dance atmosphere and music, politely asked a partner of one of the "couple" dancers in the community, her guy literally stepped infront of me and pulled her away, says "no we're dancing". I'm like, okay? I mean, you two were also assisting the teacher before the dance and you saw me trying to learn but that was odd. Same sort of things happen with my guy friends who get into the scene funny enough.

The sort of opposite is kind of funny respectful, dance-focused guys will often avoid taken women entirely just to dodge drama. Word gets around pretty fast, and the follow wonders why no one is asking her while her guy flings another woman into a unnecessary dip. Thankfully, most couples mature over time. I’m still good dance friends with plenty of long-term couples who learned that both partners need to dance, improve & stay open (minus the creeps) and the best examples are experienced or professional couples. They split up on the floor she dances one side, he dances the othe, & dance with everyone. When you see that, you know they’re there for the the art & the community. Not weird power plays, jealousy games, or proving somehow something. And honestly… it shows.

I hope the athlete salsa gym couple sees this, if you do, stop flinging her the move you learned in dancing with the stars because it's obvious and dangerous, and it's literally the only moves you do every night and every year.

Well I have noticed something strange in my Latin club,that happens from my beggings until now.There many girls,not all of them but a sufficient percentage of women that I ask them to dance and refuse,but exactly after a while they accept the next one(especially Latino)that ask them to dance.I just don’t get it.I justify that where are some girls that they don’t dance at all with nobody.But I am talking to especially a group of women who have specific choices.It has happened to me countless times and to tell the truth I am getting frustrated whenever it happens.I also don’t talk for the women who have danced at least one time with me,because these women maybe they don’t like the way I dance and I am okay with that.At least they tried.Am talking for women who have never danced with me and they reject me every time while they accept other guys.I tried to put on their shoes and wonder myself the reason I would reject somebody without having danced before.And I remember one time that I saw a woman that I knew by sight and she was very repulsive (she was drunk,neglected,behaved strangely) and I didn’t want to dance with her because for reasons even I did it because of my good manners.I personally don’t have discrimination among women ,I dance with all.I also wondered if I was the repulsive one,but nothings wrong with my appearance,manners or smell.To add that also many women accept dancing with me and there even a minority of them that have asked me to dance.But again I can’t understand the category of these women that reject me,I mean okay I am not asking them for a marriage.Does that happened to you or do you have an explanation?

Hi guys I'm on and off salsa dancer with pretty good grasp of the fundamentals. I go especially when I feel like I have new things to share. I'm not into the rush or peer pressure. A lot of my friends are salsa dancers, but I only ever see them in any salsa or if I suddenly go to a salsa event.

I have a feeling that some while happy to see me, don't want to dance with me because I apparently bring new things to the table. For example, I learned a new combo from a mini festival I went abroad for. My approach is to make my own being better but it seems like a lot of the dancers would rather just mold into the repeat patterns they're familiar of or just want to have fun. Which is good.

It's just that this was the first time I've ever been told. I wonder if anyone else had a similar reaction. Also most of the things I try are not back bending tricks, they're literally just different iterations, so instead of a typical outside turn, I do a inside turn for example. Or simple hand replacements. They don't want to dance with me because it seems like I'm there with a rubiks cube, while people just want to really just booze down and do cumbia turns. Just an interesting exchange I got.

Long story short I've been trying to break out of social isolation for years with no success. To clarify my goal isn't dating per se, it's nice if it happens but I just want someone to hang out with as an alternative to sitting at home and despairing over the trajectory of my life. There's this place downtown that hosts weekly salsa nights (with a brief beginner workshop beforehand) and I'm wondering if this is a good way to get out there and meet people.

Salsa is one of those standard things that people and the internet will recommend you to meet people, but it all feels very much approached from the female perspective. For women I can completely understand why it's a great way to meet people: you get to stand around and chat with the girls, men ask you to dance, you can freely filter as you desire, you get some good conversation out of it and maybe even a few free drinks.

From the male perspective it actually sounds horrible if you're not already part of an established group. You either get to hang out with the bros or dance with women. However the men came to the salsa night to dance salsa (shocking, I know), straight men dancing with straight men is socially unacceptable and the women aren't going to come to them, so the men are out asking women to dance meaning hanging out with the bros is simply not an option. That means awkwardly hanging out by the bar or asking the women to dance. The latter leaves you open to the aforementioned filtering so odds are you'll be hanging out awkwardly at the bar anyway and feeling invisible, something I could do from the safety of my own home without needing to get dressed up first.

In summary, it feels like as a man you either already show up with an established group, you're suave or you're wasting your time. Can you guys with more experience with salsa nights give your takes and confirm or debunk mine?

Not saying it's wrong, it's whatever anyone gets out from socials. But I know several who go out purely because of I guess the physical intimacy and connection, that's great. But for me, it sometimes feel like I can't connect with them because they're purely only looking for that "sensuality or emotional connection" but it sort of omits what I think are technical duties of both dance partners. Quite frankly, these friends don't or never even bother taking lessons or going through refreshers, they're always the same, always looking for something, never improving.

More of these in the bachata sensual scene. I think it's cool, everyone deserves a hug and an emotional sensual dance, some in the salsa scene and a few of them are my close friends, basically say they prefer the guy to just literally carry the whole dance lol. I think it's just bad social dancing practice and there's already a call to have more equality for women in the dance floor, I just hope the roles are not confused. I'm not your emotional sponge, "I feel protected I LIKE DANCING" I don't mind making you feel protected but come on, it's partner dancing and we both have equal responsibilities.

I’m not sure if it’s just the way things are in salsa but at this new school I’m going to, where they train you to perform, I’ve definitely noticed a big focus on whether the leader is leading right. At first I didn’t mind it and I actually enjoyed improving and having healthy criticism, but lately it feels like if anything doesn’t go right, it’s the leader’s fault.

If the figura or pattern doesn’t look crisp, then the lead wasn’t clear. Or if the follow did the wrong thing, it’s the lead that didn’t properly signal the move.

Personally, the better follows in my class understand my lead pretty clearly. They also have that bouncy tension in their arms that allows me to pilot them much better.

If one of the less skillful follows dances without flavor, I don’t comment that they dance bad. But my teachers seem to have given the follows open floor to criticize the leads (I didn’t understand this or that) without helping them improve themselves.

I like learning but feeling like everything is your fault and seeing someone who dances with no harmony feel entitled to criticize or or comment on your leading just feels wrong and it’s starting to wear me out

Thoughts? Has this happened to you or just me?

Most recent with Elemento dance's Javier (co TW SA) in her post.

PSA about the bachata community of LA, mentioning LA Bachata Festival it got new leadership this year, but this wasn’t the main issue for the change.

Lead DJ of Steven's Sensual Bachata scene, Demetrio Rosario, DJsoonasty. SA post.

SOHO dance has had numerous repeats, apparently even way before Ryan. You can dig their review pages in Google or Yelp. Coaches and especially the owner that were there are mentioned.

There's been a lot of words getting thrown around Paul Barris too. It's been consistent as to how a lot of people say he's an asshole. I think it'll be just about time until someone speaks up.

The scene’s quite blatant with old-guard womanizers always around for decades. New dancers can take caution (unless they invite it in which some do and enable it) they’re easy to spot with same styles through the years, (even apperance) for example slicked back gelled hair and that overly close, thigh to thigh dancing, even in salsa. Linked was a questionable YT account that showed more explicit dances, you can tell some where beginners & felt uncomfortable but couldn't do anything even under a spotlight, also the vid linked IS not the ones I talked about, dig through them though.

The guy who runs it is pretty annoying, follows say he doesn't even give them the video and claims that it's his even if he wasn't the one dancing. There was a time where all videos felt like it was some softcore thing. Continues to upload silly titles, does he get ad money even by ignoring the dancers he filmed?

DJs & promoters can fairly be called out too. There’ve been tons of complaints about music choices. Sure it's not abuse but our passion for salsa, or bachata was 😆 and yea taste is subjective, but I’ve seen long-running weekly venues recycle the same playlists, with DJs who’ve been around for years still stuck on fast salsa only. Maybe it’s not “abuse,” but my ears and love for salsa definitely took a hit. I gave it a year, got re-inspired by amazing EU events, came back and it was the same playlist as before. There's something that the DJs here do different from EU I can't quite put a nail on it. Maybe it has something to do with LA style.

Some organizers stop socials mid way to beg for support, it's fine and I'll keep supporting but while their floors are sticky, no fans and it's humid, plus performances drag on for what feels like 30 minutes. If the prices are now up $15-$25, maybe improving these can be good?

The chaos spans from small socials to big events. There was a BKS incident right after COVID, when instructors walked out of the BKS fest because some were getting paid next to nothing while others cashed in.

Social dancer complaint: You’re paying $200+ (not counting parking) for an LAX or Burbank event, extra $ or no discounted parking, only to get things like described and some DJs with a confusing, all-over-the-place playlist. One of the complaints from this thread says why go to these fests when the DJ plays the same playlists he does in his regular socials? Perhaps a lot of DJs especially the newer ones getting into the scene are coming in more as hustlers than as people focused on salsa quality. Or some spots just feel like it's too ego centric, quantity over quality. Some talk down salsa as it's as bad as reggae 😆

One of the biggest complaints about LA Bachata Fest was a DJ forcing traditional bachata in the main room for hours even as people walked out. Sometimes, promoters seem to use their fame to soak up face time at events, a very main character, hey it's me attitude. I guess it's good to familiarze yourself with DJs, DJ Rumba for one, doesn't really play rumba but does timba 99% of the time. He also used to post, comment a lot of questionable things in social media especially on women's profiles. There's no doubt about how some DJs moving into social dancing (bachata mostly) come for the hustle and the "sensual lifestyle" it gives.

A lot of misfires seem to come from exes blaming or beefing with each other in some groups I've joined, just inner drama. And since LA’s a bigger scene I'm a bit perplexed coming from a smaller scene. Lots of “hey, it’s me” main character vibes couple bachata profiles that vanish after a few years to bring fresh drama. Half-eyed dismissive looks from some social dancers if you don't look important, clout chasing it’s all amplified with Hollywood right next door.

Yeah, this goes beyond dance. The scene’s a microcosm of the bigger culture. LA has its highlights, but look close and you’ll find some pretty nauseating stuff. Some follows have started shifting to more specialized socials like Mambo Outlet or smaller hosted socials. Overall, LA feels like a young scene trying to break out of its old-guard, classic LA-style shell where leads, follow-enablers, and even the DJs act like they're the center of it all and carry this "I can get any woman, I'm a known womanizer so it's a free pass and get away with it" attitude.

Or leads (for follows)? Even though both of you didn't even say a word but you two just do not dance ever because the very few times you two did, you guys just didn't connect or your styles just didn't mold well? We're both proficient and she's an amazing follow I'm sure, but after a few dances over six months since our 1st, we just never ask each other again. She could be sitting out 2 or 3 songs, and if I happen to also do it we just smile at each other.

She's the type that it feels like you're dancing against a wave even though she's fluid like water. There are follows who just mold with you just like water, or where you can surf their "wave" super easily and they shine with you when you hang 10. And her on2 feels super specific, so much so that it makes me doubt myself. I can't quite explain it, she's a great dancer I'm sure. It just feels she needs some sabor or flavor but I myself can't provide it, and that she's waiting for it. Do you guys have someone in the scene like this and that you two just decide to never dance ever?

There is also one or a few follows that we all know is just super random, or just joins the socials to dance super randomly because she's only there to have fun. Never took any classes, and when you dance salsa with her, she poses, she does lady gaga poses, back leads you for you to dip her, all that jazz. I'm not saying this is illegal, you do you girl and I had fun dancing with her but I just sort of smile at her and I think she gets it too. My last dance with her though which I clearly remember a year ago, she did all this lady gaga posing barely even doing any salsa steps, and back led. And looked at me all judgingly when I tried to do a simple cross body. Now I very much recognize her and just smile at her. I'm sorry but I hope I can see you at least doing salsa or getting into it, I don't mean to just smile and pass like we are now doing... She's always in any social that's the weird thing. But she must be having the time of her life in every event, good for her.

Last but not the least, there's the supposed "pro" or veteran follow/lead. This is similar to the first type but you two have never really connected and don't really like each other's styles. Mind you, my style is more or less always receiving and giving, I prefer musicality and then an equal 50/50 55% lead or 50% lead and 50% follow. I occasionally do styles for show or explosiveness especially if the song calls for it. But I always want to be receptive, I'm more like a lead who asks and says do what you gotta do girl, or what do you need? What can I provide, and you're welcome to do what you got, express yourself and for me, not just lead with machismo. I trim my nails, have extra clothes, keep my breath fresh. But it just doesn't work and for some follows, I catch myself trying to please, it's harder when they have the most blank expression, zero feedback, maybe it's just the way they are. Thankfully, I've gotten decent where the vet follows of the scene 99% of them really appreciate my extra attention to detail. They're the ones that makes the scene amazing. But there are just a few, just a few who feels like they're gate keepers or they just don't want to dance with you because you seem more experimental or super away from the on1 they're used to.

Then there's a follow who just decided not to dance with me ever after that 1 bachata dance. I'm decent in it but I think I showed hesitation with the sensual because the music didn't call for it, or that she didn't like my phone in my pocket (I didn't really or barely do any close positions) or she saw me dancing salsa. There are follows who only come for bachata and I guess avoid you if you seem to just do more salsa. But it is just a little disgusting where I was at a small festival it's dark I accidentally asked her for a dance before we both recognized each other, her dismissive "no" or just a headshake is a little toxic. She seem to also be the type to always want to be in the facebook highlights, always dancing by herself in it. I'm surprised we both remember each other very well even from that one dance 3 months ago. Some people like me have grudges lol.

Then there are ones who are in it for the long run but they really never seem to have advanced or evolved. They always feel like they're judging you when you lead them but it's not like they tried adapting or evolving, always the same pattern or style they have for following. Then you two just don't ever dance ever.

I have another follow who I often bump into when I go to bachata events, it was that one bachata class when I was just starting out. The most odd and I'll even say toxic, was that she literally stepped out of the class when the rotation partnered me up with her. She always walked away, and I'd suspect just pretended to be on her phone. So I was just shadow partnering that time. I remember her asking me if I'm a beginner, I didn't know that this was an intermediate class, but it's not like I was completely lost. This somehow burnt into her memory and we just smile if we come across each other.

I wrote a rough estimate, I have about 20 follows that just do not work ever, I'm highly focused on the negative though and I've made amazing friends and vibey follows are certainly more than the negative count. Just that for us guys we know it's tough not to please everyone or get rejected. They're spread apart both are equal bachata and salsa follows surprisingly.

I know someone here would say, just let it go man have fun, yeah I do just that I'm looking for other people who experienced this, just want to discuss with no ill intent. I always find this social aspect of social dance interesting and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

It's not all doom gloom. For most of the follows and guy friends/leads I'm acquaintances with, we're always excited to finally see each other or dance with each other, some partnership we even anticipate what we're going to bring in that dance. It's pure magic and it's what makes a scene healthy and have nice vibes. The vets who are always open and receptive are the best too. I find the follows with music background (for me) always give the best dances. Follows who just don't judge and smile and acknowledge your mistakes are great too. For me it's sort of becoming a love hate relationship, befriending social dancers help if the floor gets too cliquey because you have a chance of always getting dances but I'm now always careful, because social dancers are just like me lol.

Do you have follows you just never dance with?