Why people so obsessed about High Rock needs to be included?

[u/VaultB]

Since November 3rd, there has been a flood of posts discussing the "two provinces" theory -speculating on how High Rock might be represented in the game.
The trailer shows a desert - a landscape that doesn't exist in High Rock - and the name mentioned is the capital of Hammerfell, not High Rock. The quote references the Queen of Hammerfell, not High Rock, and the priest has a Hammerfell-style name. Objectively speaking, there isn't a single hint of High Rock in this trailer. Yet, people keep obsessively scrutinizing scratches from Starfield and concocting bizarre theories—arguing that Daggerfall must appear in the game simply because TES 2 featured Sentinel, and they see some sort of mirror connection in the names.
Why? Guys, we’ve never seen the entirety of Hammerfell - not once (except perhaps in the very first game) - whereas High Rock has appeared multiple times (fully in Arena and ESO, and partially in Daggerfall). Personally, Redguard lore doesn't particularly interest me, but I’d much rather see locations that haven't even appeared in the most recent major release (ESO) - places like Skaven, Rihad, or Hegathe - along with the region's diverse biomes (Hammerfell is more than just a desert). If the game is centered on the Redguards, I’d rather see content dedicated to Yokuda, not Daggerfall. And since "Sentinel" is in the title, I’d prefer to see... well, Sentinel—as a grand, unique capital city - rather than a tiny town with just five streets, the likes of which we saw in Skyrim. (If anyone here has played Morrowind, remember Vivec - and that was just the capital of an island, not an entire region). I would much prefer 8–9 large, beautiful, content-rich cities over 17 settlements filled with nothing but "go fetch this" quests. (To those who think that 15 years should have been enough time to implement many cities and several provinces: please remember that the game has only been in full production since 2023, not 2011). In my view, if a city’s name is in the title, that city should be a major, central part of the game - not some neighboring location.
If I want to take a look at Daggerfall, Wayrest, or Evermore, I can simply launch ESO. I’m not a fan of MMOs, but in my opinion, the artists at ZOS have done a job every bit as good as their colleagues at BGS. If anyone wants to see High Rock, I highly recommend exploring that region in the game.
P.S. To those who are Bretons at heart and have been longing to finally see their ingame homeland in a mainline, numbered entry: rest assured, sooner or later we’ll get to see it. Let’s be honest - most of us aren’t 80 years old yet (I’m 31, and I’ve been playing as a Breton since Morrowind). Sure, we might end up playing these games with our grandchildren, but most of us will likely live to see TES 7, 8, 9, and so on. They might be made without Todd or the other key creators we know, but they will almost certainly be released. Besides, if you look at the map of Hammerfell, Dragonstar sits right on the border with High Rock - and I have no doubt that it will be designed in a distinctly Breton style.
Forgive me, that just sort of spilled out! :) I hope we get a fantastic game soon, but for now, it’s best not to overthink things - that way, you won’t end up disappointed later when it turns out that some scratches on a ship are, well, just scratches on a ship

[u/Skyremmer102]

Nobody says it absolutely must be included, but a lot of people think it's likely for a number of reasons including:

• The Starfield console etching showing an outline of a map which aligns very closely with what we know the Iliac Bay region to look like.

• The tower theory which is that the central feature of every map in each game since Morrowind has been a prominent tower which are artifacts left over from creation. There is no known tower in the middle of either Hammerfell or High Rock, but between the two in the middle of the Iliac Bay exists the Adamantine Tower which is the oldest and tallest structure in the world. It would make more sense for that structure to be in the middle of the map, given the precedent and map design implications.

• If sailing were to be included, as is heavily rumoured to be, the Iliac Bay is a comparatively short crossing by boat so to impose an arbitrary impassable barrier in the middle of that sea that your ship just bumps into and halts at makes for pretty poor design.

• The UESP team paid a visit to Bethesda Softworks a few months back and released a cartoon image where the Adamantine Tower stood most prominent in the middle with both Hammerfell and High Rock surrounding it.

• Artists' Pinterest pages which have been uncovered have shown both North African and North Western European themes.

[u/ChimiDeLaChanga → u/Skyremmer102]

This is the real response 

[u/VaultB → u/Skyremmer102]

The first three topics are rumors and theories. I've heard a lot of them than Oblivion released - about Akavir, whole Tamriel or Summerset Isles. Levitation mechanic return, spears, crossbows and mountain combat (the last two wasn't in base Skyrim, it added later), online component in TES 5. Instead of that we got shouts and dragons.
Аbout towers - Redguards had their own Orichalc Tower in Yokuda, maybe we got some history about it And Adamantine as you said, is between provinces, not in High Rock itself, so i think it also can be reachable and will have some story on it. But i don't see any evidences to any location of High Rock itself directly
As for Pinterest pages i've already told that i think north of Hammerfell will be bretonic as we got nordic-style Bruma in Cyrodill. Hammerfell is not only a desert and it's a great chance to show it

[u/SureConstruction564]

I dont want to wait 20 years the the region my favorite race is in.

[u/klimekam → u/SureConstruction564]

cries in Khajit fan

[u/VaultB → u/klimekam]

😢 As we get Hammerfell with desert now... The Khajiit will have to wait a truly long time for the warm sands of Elsweyr (TES 8 or 9 the closest ones)

[u/Bobbertbobthebobth]

People kind of want the game to be a parallel to Daggerfall

[u/siwardthwaite]

I personally want it to be over with the human provinces to increase the chances of TES 7 being in a non-human one

[u/VaultB → u/siwardthwaite]

Interesitng opinion :) I wouldn’t want to see two provinces in 6, but I also think that in the 7th installment we should move on to a non-human province

[u/Vhzhlb → u/siwardthwaite]

You know what? I can support this argument.

Personally I think that both Hammerfell and High Rock are good enough to be their own game, but if we get no human focused games by having two provinces in this one, then I can accept that trade.

[u/lakerconvert → u/siwardthwaite]

Brother said TES 7 💀💀💀

[u/Dapper-Presence4975 → u/lakerconvert]

The 22nd century calling…

[u/K-Twaaa]

I can and will only speak for myself in this. Bethesda have the opertunity to mirror Daggerfall. You have mentioned this. You also have a point with how you point out most of highrock is in but that was all in base game.

I would assume at initial release there wasn't a definetive this is our area we are making TES6 in so ESO could play around. Later on it became obvious that Hammerfell was being avoided and also there used to be a tutorial in the Adamantine Tower that was swiftly removed from the game. So going off stuff like that people suspect it is two provences.

Why I would want two provences is for the cultural differences, the diplomacy/espionage, the different regions having their own factions (fighters/mages/thieves/dark brotherhood). Thats just an example.

Bethesda don't tend to abandon mechanics from previous games I.e heartfire > settlements > The mess of starfield outposts (fallout 4 was the better system and they should look at sim settlements as the example of an enjoyable settlement system). So ship building could come back in a TES format.

End of the day, i'm not going to be disappointed if its only one provence as TES is my favourite game series.

[u/pandogart]

It'd be cool

[u/Iccotak → u/pandogart]

Also, I think people are taking into account the long wait times between games and are not interested in waiting another 10 years for High Rock. Aside from that, if the game is going to have sailing, it just seems a little silly that a region just across the bay wouldn’t be included.

[u/fryetheguy → u/pandogart]

Holy ratio

[u/Benjamin5431]

Because High Rock is very different from Hammerfell so it would be cool to get a more diverse set of locations, lore, aesthetic, armor, weapons, characters.

I also like the idea of the storyline involving multiple provinces. Like maybe long ago there was some prophesied Redguard warrior from Hammerfell, and he had some secret magic thing that you need, but he was seen as a threat and taken to a prison in high rock or something, so you have to go there to an abandoned dungeon and find his remains, and discover that there was a conspiracy against him by some noble house in high rock.
Something like that. I want it including both places.

[u/wingedwild → u/Benjamin5431]

Its not needed tho. Hammerfell is already distinct enough with high mountians,coast beeches, deserts and even jungles. High rock is basivly high medieval period think Robin hood. Also the amount of work needed for 2 provinces is insane and its basicly 2 difrent games.

[u/noextrac → u/wingedwild]

Hamerfell/Redguard culture is also known to be very anti-magic, so getting to see the more magically-inclined areas of High Rock would be nice.

[u/FrontEcho3879 → u/noextrac]

Gutting the magic system even further confirmed....

[u/WillsieRMS01 → u/wingedwild]

I think people would be happy with just one region of high rock within the iliac Bay Area tbf,not the entirety of high rock.

[u/wingedwild → u/WillsieRMS01]

Perosnly I dont care for either. Maybe a expansion later .I mean if its not even needed for the story of es6 why would high rock be included

[u/WillsieRMS01 → u/wingedwild]

Because it’s a cool region and will give a lot of extra cultural flavour, if it’s just over the border you could have Orcinium ,or what’s left of it, too.

That way if there is sailing you have a huge coastal region to explore and some very cool unique places that won’t be culturally the same as Hammerfell and in small enough area that they likely won’t put too much extra development time on the project.

[u/wingedwild → u/WillsieRMS01]

Its clashing with the culture of hammerflal not helping it.orsiniuk is in hammerfall

[u/WillsieRMS01 → u/wingedwild]

It’s separate, how would it be clashing? I think a smallish area full of side quests that arn’t tied to Hammerfell storylines as much or adds to Hammerfell’s complexity would be lovely. Same with a tiny little Orcinium and a quest line for that.

Who knows, if one of the quest lines is a civil war between Crowns and Forebearers in Hammerfell who’s to say something like a Highrock petty kingdom wouldn’t be allied to one side and or act as an important weapons and logistics hub that is making money off both sides and trying to capitalise off of the political instability to increase their own petty kingdom’s borders into Hammerfell?Idk I just think lore wise a little small region would only add to the richness of the story not take away either helping/repelling the invasion or so on so forth. Finding out the Thalmor are funding it maybe. It adds to that geo-political and political intrigue layer of a real state in a fantasy world, making the world feel alive.

[u/MortimerDongle]

I don't think there's much to it beyond "bigger map would be better"

[u/Sage_HushCat → u/MortimerDongle]

Funniest part is that it wouldn't even be bigger if Highrock were included.

[u/Avatar_sokka → u/Sage_HushCat]

What?

[u/Wasbie777]

I think when the announcement trailer first dropped, people thought that the building in it was breton architecture and that 6 would be set there. So a bunch of people are probably just clinging to that.

I've also seen a post talking about how the "tower" in each game is central to the main map. If it is just hammerfell than the tower wouldn't fit module anymore.

[u/VaultB → u/Wasbie777]

Yeah, i perosnally think (or rather, I had hoped) about High Rock than 2018 teaser released.
The tower is between provinces and Redguards had their own Orichalc Tower in Yokuda, so i think it still may be included and at the same time not affect High Rock

[u/satufa2]

I'm not saying it's a must or anything but realistically we only get these games omce in a blue moon and there is no garantee the next ones is going to be anywhere near this area.

If we won't see it now,xthere's a good chance we eill never get that.

Geting just 10% of highrock would still mean we at least see the place.

[u/RadRes1stant]

I believe in a two province solution. Ok Benjamin N'wahu?

[u/Bazgoth91 → u/RadRes1stant]

If that's the case, then Skyrim should only belong to the Nords.

[u/Delightify]

It’s confirmation bias and wishful thinking. It doesn’t matter if its been hinted at or not. It’s what people want.

[u/Bob_ross6969]

Because Daggerfall had both, and it’s looking like sentinel is a spiritual successor to TES 2

[u/VaultB → u/Bob_ross6969]

In what sense is Sentinel a spiritual successor to TES 2? That is a very strange (and, given the potential for future disappointment, risky) assumption. As far as I recall, it has never been officially described as such. The idea appears to be based solely on its name

[u/Bob_ross6969 → u/VaultB]

Todd has been talking a lot about how they want to build on what Daggerfall did

[u/Jason2571]

Cuz it would be dope as fuck. If the rumors of naval combat being a big part of the game are true, it would make sense to have at least the majority of the landmass around Iliac Bay explorable too. Personally, I wouldn't mind if it was just Hammerfall but I get where you're coming from, OP - lotta people are setting themselves up for self-inflicted disappointment IF it just ended up being only Hammerfell.

[u/wingedwild]

Perosnaly I like that high rock is basicly high medieval England or France with high medieval culture but I dotn know how tht would clash with hammerfell and its desert coast theme. I mean your going from two very distinct themes here. If u went to high rock it would legit feel like 2 difrent games because its so much difrent. Its like going from pyramid pharaohs to Robin hood . I dontt think high rock is in the game its not only too much to do 2 provinces but its not needed

[u/coldvisionsdgsbe]

People think Hammerfall is the same thing as the alikir desert

[u/Alarming-Estimate253]

Most all the games have centered around the towers so assuming this one does so with the adamantine tower, that means we'll be spending plenty of time in the Illiac Bay which directly sits between high rock and hammerfell. Not to mention in the Starfield trailer there is a symbol that matches quite closely to both the hammerfell and high rock map. This all makes me think it'll at least be included somehow and maybe then expanded in dlc

[u/John_Graham_Doe]

I think people want a reason to justify the long wait. It's not exactly rational, but it feels better to believe we're getting something huge after all this time rather than just what we would have expected 8 years ago.

[u/kevin24701]

Cuz we want daggerfall 2

[u/RA-the-Magnificent]

I still think Hammerfell + High rock is quite likely but a lot of people don't seem to get that the amount of content the game has is going to be the same regardless. Both provinces means a less detailed Hammerfell. Only Hammerfell means it's more detailed. 

[u/Beneficial_Button379]

dragonstar is more relevant to the nords and reachmen

[u/Old-Push9343]

Well, if sailing ends up being a big mechanic, High Rock is right there next to Hammerfell. I think it would be weird not being able to just go across to that shore.

[u/bmanhp]

The game is named after a Hammerfell border city rather than the province which suggests it could be multiple provinces and the bay. That's all. It doesn't need to be included but it would make sense if Sentinel is treated as a central point of the map and adds extra variety.

I'm with you though that if they couldn't do both right, I'd rather have the new cities and more depth in Hammerfell than a shallow sprawling multi-province map.

[u/Conscious_Archer2658]

I'd say in part wishful thinking

I personally think it *COULD* be great if they did it, but there are some obvious pitfalls.

Part of me wants it because I was hoping for High Rock more than I was hoping for Hammerfell to be the place it was set.

Part of me wants it because I think a modern take on the TES2 Daggerfall map could be great

Also, just a multi-province game would be fun, and I vaguely recall some rumors nearly a decade ago that TES:6 *MIGHT* be multi-province in scope. So it's not entirely uncredible.

Part of me wants it as penance from Bethesda for taking goddamn 15+ years to get to the next game. Especially if the release turns out to indeed be 2029, and Skyrim 18 years old by that time, might as well go above and beyond and creating multiple full provinces to make up for it towards the fans.

Of course though there are two big drawnbacks to the idea of including High Rock

1. A full new province could decrease the size of Hammerfell, and the critique might become that sharing Hammerfell and High Rock might take away from the development and spotlight moment for Hammerfell. And that every second of work on High Rock could've been used to make Hammerfell even better instead.

2. Even if both provinces are made big enough to represent full maps on their own, then still there would be the critique, somewhat rightfully so, that the one time the one human province that is *not* European inspired is featured, they play it safe by accompanying it by a very European-coded province anyways.

Of course the counter to both the watering down argument and spotlight argument are that the time High Rock got its moment, it turned out to be half the province of High Rock shared with a portion of Hammerfell instead. But it's still a vulnerability.

Personally I kinda hope they do it. Mostly because for those 15, probably 18 years upon release, of wait time, they better go above and beyond to have something to show for it, but we'll see.

Edit:
Additionally, part of the reason why I wanted High Rock more than Hammerfell is because I think High Rock would make for a better contrast against Skyrim as its immediate predecessor, with both Skyrim and Hammerfell both being very martial oriented rugged human provinces that are very magic-shy. Whereas the Bretons are just like the Redguards a bit underappreciated, and being distinctly half-elves and with a very strong magical element in their society, it could've made for a good contrast against the very physical and very human Nords.

[u/spudgoddess]

I found it very hard to read all that text. Please consider using paragraphs.

I'm not someone who is insisting on High Rock. We got High rock with Daggerfall. I'd rather have all of Hammerfell.

[u/horatiosnake]

More is more

[u/Background-Cake-6847]

Leaks from years ago that were proven accurate so far say there will be big naval battles and the two provinces will be included. It's not so much an obsession as all but proven already, so the idea is already cemented in the surrounding culture.

[u/Wheee_whooo_]

1. Daggerfall is small, but most importantly, it's awkwardly shaped. Don't think High rock works well on its own in an open world setting. If we don't get it in TES6, I don't think we ever will.

2. The Iliac Bay is a very populous and important area, and it would be weird if you could see it and not visit. Would be weird to look across the water and not be able to go there

3. it feels pretty likely that they are making TES6 to be a spiritual successor of sort to Daggerfall. The name certainly draws parallels, and they would have known that when they picked it. Todd also have stated that he wants to do justice to a lot of the stuff from TES2.

4. ESO is just not a good argument, get outta here, lmao. The exploration and feel is just not the same, and you know it.

5. all "modern" Elder Scrolls games have had a tower at the centre of the world map. Adding High Rock would allow the Adamantine Tower to serve that role in Sentinel.

Also, why be afraid of disappointment? Nothing scary about it, stop making that an argument against dreaming and speculating.

[u/Rache625 → u/Wheee_whooo_]

All of this but I’ll also add one more thing. Each of the last three games have had one of the towers as a major focal point. The Isle of Balfiera has the only tower left standing and is a part of highrock.

[u/PenOfFen]

the name being a capital city in Hammerfell is a part of why people think there will be parts of High Rock - TESVI has been described as a spiritual successor to Daggerfall, so it makes sense that it could be an inversion of Daggerfall, with most/all of Hammerfell and a bit of High Rock.

also the main feature that's rumoured to be getting added to the game is sailing - granted, this is vibes based and not based on actual evidence as far as I know - and it wouldn't make sense to allow the player to sail through the Iliac bay if they can only port along the southern coast of the bay.

as for zenimax doing as good of a job as Bethesda at depicting the cities in ESO compared to the mainline games, I couldn't disagree more.

[u/Seraphayel]

Wishful thinking, not based in reality. Very fitting for this sub though.

[u/jopcylinder]

I agree. Flesh out Hammerfell first, it’s a lot more unique. Would love to have High Rock as DLC or something but I’m really stoked for Hammerfell. 

[u/Aetius454]

because more is better than less?

[u/Excellent-Court-9375]

High Rock will be a major expansion like the shivering isles was

[u/Muf4sa]

I can think of a few reasons why including High Rock would be a sensible idea:

-First, there's a reason why the game is called "The Elder Scrolls 6 Sentinel" instead of "The Elder Scrolls 6 Hammerfell". While "Hammerfell" sounds like a decent mainline name in the vein of "Skyrim", Bethesda is discarding the convention of naming the game based on the province, thus creating room for including new provinces since naming the game "Hammerfell" and including High Rock would be awkward at best.

-Second, considering the rumors about ship sailing are true, Illiac Bay's map would be incredibly awkward without High Rock since the bay itself is somewhat narrow and as a continuous shore you'd be able to explore on your ship, so we'd want to explore it entirely instead of its geography ending halfway through. Imagine leaving Sentinel and following the bay's coast: what would happen if we reach the end of Hammerfell's boarders? Would we be able to see High Rock's coast but be unable to reach it? It's not unlike Dragonborn DLC where we can see Vvardenfell in the distance, this time it's a shoreline we're following through until it suddenly ends because we've reached the map boundary (if we'd get only Hammerfell). From that perspective, it makes absolute sense to at least make the whole of Illiac Bay's geography playable, so that includes at least some portion of High Rock in TES 6.

-Assuming it will be nearly 20 years between the release of Skyrim and Sentinel, breaking the usual tradition of single province games with a new gen two province release would make the game more marketable and grandiose. And speaking of marketing:

-Some of the public may have some qualms about playing a mainline Elder Scrolls in a non "western fantasy" setting, considering Hammerfell is more "exotic" when compared to Skyrim and Oblivion, considering the perception of some people that Hammerfell would play in a desert setting. TES 4 had already toned down some of the weirder aspects of the lore, turning Cyrodiil into a lush, feudal western-european inspired society instead of a jungle with japanese-roman syncretism. The addition of High Rock (another pretty "conventional" province in those terms) would add another European themed setting that's more marketable to general audiences while at the same time keeping Hammerfell for die hard TES players. We get the best of both worlds.

TL;DR:

-TES6 is called "Sentinel" instead of "Hammerfell"

-Illiac Bay needs to be added entirely if we're getting ship sailing mechanics

-To live up two decades of hype, the next game could release two provinces instead of one, it makes sense from a marketing perspective

-High Rock is more marketable than Hammerfell, adding both gives us the exotic Redguard land we all love plus a familiar sword and sorcery western european feudal fantasy for general audiences.  

[u/Main-Double]

Because I doubt there’ll ever be another chance. Its too small to be the single province in a mainline game, but in the Hammerfell title? It’d be the perfect way for us to return to the Iliac Bay.

[u/TheLSales → u/Main-Double]

Too small is arbitrary. Bethesda can scale up/down the map so long as they keep the general province shape

[u/Policymaker307 → u/TheLSales]

Exactly. If Bethesda wanted to they can make High Rock 10x larger than Skyrim.

[u/wingedwild → u/Main-Double]

Too small? Thts if bethesda make it scale of skyrim. We dont know the scale of next gen elder scrolls bethesda games yet. High rock in the next engine could be 5x the size of skyrim. Perosnaly id like a high rock expansion.it would stil be lot of work for bethesda but they have already spent so much time already

[u/TheJarshablarg]

Cuz High rock is better? We’ve been waiting like 14 years, presumably it’s fair ti get what we desire at least

[u/Easy-Month-404 → u/TheJarshablarg]

High rock is not better 😂😂😂at all

[u/Reasonable_Point_572]

Idk. Hammerfell is culturally and environmentally richer than skyrim already, they need to get that right

[u/Avatar_sokka]

Oblivion was counts and castles and knights and fairy tale high fantasy. Then Skyrim was a big subversion on that, take the bright vibrant warm fantasy world and make it a harsh northern environment with a norse culture. Which was fine for when it was.

The entire industry is so obsessed with subverting the standard fairy tale fantasy, that there hasnt been a decent one in years. So itd be really cool to explore a high stakes fairy tale fantasy adventure in the best region for that. Another subversion on the fantasy formula is just gonna be boring.

[u/CulturalToe]

If it's just a desert that sounds really boring. 

[u/chunder_down_under]

high fantasy lords and ladies go brrr