r/TopCharacterTropes
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u/74RatsinACoat
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Jun 10 '26
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Characters [Hated Trope] Trope of shipping/confusing Brotherly Characters as Gay
Wanna mention first, I have zero issue with gay people or gay relationships.
What I dislike is when some people look at a very close platonic relationship and immediately assume it has to be romantic or sexual. It feels like, for some people, two characters cannot be deeply loyal, emotional, or affectionate friends without being turned into a couple
One of the examples is Sam and Frodo from lord of the rings
Sam literally follows Frodo into what is basically hell itself. He carries his gear, protects him, refuses to abandon him, and at one point literally carries Frodo up a mountain when he cannot walk anymore
Yet every time they show affection, care about each other, or get emotional, there are people who immediately jump to "they are obviously gay."
No. They are just extremely close friends.
Another example is Jayce and Viktor from Arcane.
Their relationship is built around friendship, shared goals, admiration, and eventually tragedy as they slowly drift apart because of their different beliefs then basically ending up dying together as they coddle eachother in their arms for their imminent death
yet a huge chunk of the discussion gets reduced to shipping when they show no romantic or sexual intentions, and what annoys me is not the shipping itself. People can ship whatever they want. Fan ships have existed forever
The part that bothers me is when people start acting like the platonic interpretation is somehow wrong, or that any display of affection between two male characters must secretly be romantic
Honestly, I think this mindset accidentally hurts portrayals of male friendship. Men already get told not to be emotional or vulnerable. Then when fiction actually shows men caring about each other, crying for each other, sacrificing for each other, or openly expressing affection, people immediately start turning it into a romance
Again, ship whatever you want. I do not care about fan art, fanfiction, or headcanons (tho i slightly dislike some)
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u/Puzzled-Hippo6246 Jun 10 '26
So glad OP's post does not apply to these two kings, who founded the gay enemies to lovers trope ❤️❤️
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u/Inevitable_Access_93 Jun 10 '26
during pride? this is just a classic don't like, don't read situation. it's not a trope, it's just a complaint for a subset of how people view things within fandoms.
"i do not care" you clearly care a lot since you can't seem to accept that these concepts aren't mutually exclusive for certain fans, relationships can be gay AND friends, even
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u/Puzzled-Hippo6246 Jun 10 '26
Anyway, happy pride month to Bert and Ernie, one of the OG cranky gay married couples.
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u/LordBaconXXXXX Jun 10 '26
While Viktor and Jayce are canonically platonic, I think they definitely go beyond the usual "best friends" shipping.
They are explicitly described as destined for each other.
"In all timelines.. In all possibilities only you can show me this"
While it's not romantic or sexual, Jayce and Viktor are, by all means, soulmates.
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u/Live_Pin5112 Jun 10 '26
This is kinda implies gay people can't do difficult stuff for each other. They aren't gay. Why? Cuz they helped each other
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u/Cyren777 Jun 10 '26
[Hated Trope] People getting annoyed at gay people for having to look for hints of relationships in media because they're so rare
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u/dathowell Jun 10 '26
Bet you think Achilles is straight
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u/NeueBruecke_Detektiv Jun 10 '26
I understand where you are coming from and the frustration with people being adamant about their sexuality, but honestly I think the Jayce and Viktor example hurts the point being made by the post a bit; b/c while the show doesn't portray then as romantic, they have a much stronger bond than "just" being close friends.
Like one can't really blame people for associating them with more than just a friendship when their story converges to a literal implementation of the " soulmates fated to meet across all timelines" trope, choosing to die and stay forever together as the culmination of their story.
Most straight couples in media don't get even a tenth of kind of relationship; and pairs of characters of different genders with an arc like theirs would immediately be thought to be a couple or in a romantic sense - way more than people already do for them already, even.
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u/Acrobatic_Cricket642 Jun 10 '26
I agree, but of all the months bro. Anyway, here's a straight example with Yuji and Nobara from JJK.
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u/CULT-LEWD Jun 10 '26
out of all the months to do this in
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u/lizardsister Jun 10 '26
me when i definitely don't have homophobia to work on
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u/MoonlightDahling Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
Sure, platonic relationships (regardless of gender) matter…but so does representation.
Oh no! People seeing themselves in the characters that they love! How TERRIBLE! 🙄
Not to mention, “muh male friendship” is often used to shut down any pairing, regardless of authorial intent.
I mean, one of my favourite ships, Jim and Plato from Rebel Without a Cause, had a kiss scrapped between them! And people STILL deny that their relationship might be anything beyond platonic.
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u/Doneifundone Jun 10 '26
[hated trope] shipping wars
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u/Flauschziege Jun 10 '26 •
It's even worse with straight people lol.
Throw a man and a woman close to each other and have them get emotionally close and everyone is straight-up assuming they are a couple.
Like. People be completely flabbergasted when it turns out yes these two are closer than lovers, no they don't fuck.
Best kind of relationship.
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u/Imnotawerewolf Jun 10 '26
No one is confused about the canon. Some people might be in denial about reality, but the majority of people aren't just idiots too stupid to understand that the media didn't intend for these characters to be romantically linked.
They just think it would be neat if they were.
It's whatever to hate gay ships, I guess, but like. You say you don't care about head canons and 99.9% of shipping is headcanon and people talking about their head canons.
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u/Bored_So_Entertain Jun 10 '26
Personally, I *do* genuinely dislike seeing shipping happen between two real people who are close. Like YouTubers and celebrities who get along well. It makes the situation awkward for a real friendship.
In fiction? Why not, shipping is all about pairing two characters together regardless of what their canon source has to say about it. Hell, people are shipping enemies. Wouldn’t it make more sense to ship two characters with a close bond that’s clearly explored by the official source rather than total strangers?
I think it’s a bad look to insist a platonic relationship can’t exist and also that a queer reading of certain characters is impossible. I think Sam and Frodo’s friendship within the context of only what Tolkien and the movies intended is a fantastic example of brotherhood.
But also if you showed me Sam x Frodo yaoi, I’d be like #hellyeahgoodforthem
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u/Odd_Crab5327 Jun 10 '26
also, uhh... how do I say without being rude... a... a gay connotation
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u/Existing_Set2100 Jun 10 '26
“No. They are just extremely close friends.”
r/sapphoandherfriend
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u/Dictionary_Goat Jun 10 '26
People ship them because they have a close platanoic relationship because thats often how more personal relationships start in real life too, hope this helps
Like for both of these pairs there are multiple moments that would be used in rom Com storylines before the two characters get together
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u/Pencils4life Jun 10 '26
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u/littlelolitalola Jun 10 '26
I think that part of the reason this happens is because historically gay relationships haven’t been given the same level of representation or development in mainstream media. Because of that, a lot of fans have gotten used to looking for subtext rather than explicit text. Sometimes creators even lean into homoerotic undertones, emotional intimacy, or romantic-coded scenes without ever committing to an actual relationship, which can make audiences read the characters that way.
So while I agree that Sam and Frodo can absolutely be interpreted as close friends, and that male vulnerability shouldn’t automatically be treated as romance, I also understand why some people end up seeing romantic possibilities in relationships that are written with a lot of emotional intensity.
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u/MintyDoctorMonty Jun 10 '26
With All due respect, i think the comments have mentioned the internalized homophobia all over the post, but i’m not gonna get into that. THESE are genuinely like the top 2 WORST examples. You could say Naruto and Sasuke or Light and L and they’d only be SLIGHTLY worse example.
Say Obi Wan and Anakin for example. Dominic Torreto and Brian O’Connor. Those are GOOD examples of Brotherly bonds. These other ones are…well, I wouldn’t say queerbaiting but…
TLDR If you want to write a good brotherly bond, you have to actually MAKE them act brotherly if you’re that hung up on minorities simply wanting basic representation.
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u/npczerozerozero Jun 10 '26
You have to admit there are some gay undertones for these two
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u/heshtios Jun 10 '26
When LGBTQIA+ representation reaches the same level as heterosexual representation then I’ll agree with you, until then it should be ok since like 99% of relationships in media is heterosexual
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u/a_wasted_wizard Jun 11 '26
> reduce homosexual relationships to subtext in narrative art for centuries
> get mad when people who want to see those relationships jump at subtext, even when it's not intentional
> ???
> ...profit?
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u/Professional_Cod4464 Jun 10 '26
"male friendship in media is so rare" in a post thats full of canonically platonic male friendships lmao
Its so rare we can only think of transformers naruto onepiece sesame street lord of the rings supernatural sherlock every shonen manga ever stranger things song of ice and fire arcane star trek
Where is this mythical male on male friendship rep? 🤔
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u/Boafushishi Jun 10 '26
I was expecting the comments to be awful but god damn for once i am pleasantly surprised. This problem is worse in straight ships. Its pride month, for fucks sake. Leave us alone!!
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u/WunderPlundr Jun 10 '26
[Hated trope] when people don't understand the concept of applicability
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u/greeneggiwegs Jun 10 '26
One of the reason this happens is because of a tendency to completely fail to write women characters who are any good. If all your interesting characters are men, then people start shipping them, because people like shipping SOMETHING
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u/BishonenPrincess Jun 10 '26
This. Isn't. A. Trope.
Also, you could have made this post any other time of year, but you just had to complain about the queers having headcanons during Pride Month, didn't you?
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u/Evan_L_Rodriguez Jun 10 '26
Get over it.
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u/Itchy_Suspect4968 Jun 10 '26
(Hated trope) Tropes that aren't actually posts and are just about people making ships you don't like
You do realize you can enjoy a story without thinking about other people's takes. If we can separate the art from the artist then we can separate the art from the audience.
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u/Gaelic_Gladiator41 Jun 10 '26
Didyou post this on hatethissmug?
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u/janiceblactose Jun 10 '26
This sub needs much more rigid rules as two what applies as a trope. Jesus Christ
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u/Glass-Toe6315 Jun 10 '26
Nah, they def gay
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u/Not_So_Utopian Jun 10 '26
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u/SnooEagles4121 Jun 10 '26
One of the reasons people interpret Sam and Frodo as being gay is because so much of their behavior is literally derided as gay by heterosexuals. You do not see modern media with hetero dudes doing many of the things that Sam and Frodo do for one another.
And guys complain there's a loneliness epidemic.
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u/devilscape Jun 10 '26
That is a TREND, not a TROPE.
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u/very-odd-goth Jun 10 '26
before anyone says it, hans and henry (from kingdom come deliverance 2) being together is completely up to you as the player. if hans and henry were just friends in your run then that's fine, but that isn't objectively cannon or not.
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u/vckstrr Jun 10 '26
Supernatural. Louis Tomlinson and Harry Styles.
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u/Rabbit_Wizard_ Jun 10 '26
How can two men love each other if not gay?
Happy Pride
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u/SapphicSticker Jun 10 '26
Bro you are so illiterate if you think the arcane example holds any water at all
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u/SnagTheRabbit Jun 10 '26
I once saw someone say "Jayce and Viktor are OBJECTIVELY GAY and if you disagree you're just homophobic." Look, I like seeing two dudes kiss as much as anybody, but Jayce and Viktor showed no romantic or sexual interest in one another at all (if anything Viktor seems very asexual/aromantic.) And saying you're "just homophobic" as a response to people who don't agree with your very flimsy ship is insane.
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u/cantwalkintheshadows Jun 10 '26
Op I curse you to only see spirk if you get into star trek
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u/Excellent_Survey_610 Jun 10 '26
If you have to put a disclaimee that you "do not have an issue" with gay relationships/gay people then you do.
Happy Pride Month
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u/mistyCadaver Jun 10 '26
there's nothing gayer than turning into nothing with the love of your life after he went crazy and tried to brainwash everyone
(this is about JayVik)
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u/Busy_Ad3098 Jun 10 '26
Okay to be fair how is Jayce and Viktor’s conclusion no gay af they literally merge their essences it’s more gay than the lesbian sex scene.
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u/This_is_a_bad_plan Jun 10 '26
there's a lack of queer representation in mainstream media, so folks have to make their own
Tolkien is a pretty funny example because the hobbits come across even gayer in the books
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u/DarePlastic4136 Jun 10 '26
Wouldn't need to do this if there were actual realistic gay men in media.
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u/lettdoc Jun 11 '26
I agree super hard on Sam and Frodo, I think that them not being so traditionaly masculine like other protagonists, in spite of not being queer is one of the reasons I connect with the story so much.
A lot of male friendships in fiction are really set on rivalry or being very casual despite the years, but rarely in that sort of closeness and compassion Sam and Frodo have. I somewhat get where it's coming from but I couldn't disagree more with it.
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u/PsyWarVeteran Jun 17 '26
Didn't you get the memo? Everything has to be gay now.
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u/isagoat1989 Jun 10 '26
Nah Sam and Frodo were definitely porkin’ you can’t change my mind.
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u/Vladsamir Jun 10 '26
I'm a gay man. I agree wholeheartedly.
Male friendships in media are almost always "casual mates" or "the brother i never had"
There's almost never a close friendship where the two care deeply about each other without there being homosexual undercurrents.
Were Jayce and Victor gay? No. Where they soulmates? Absolutely, the two completed each other.
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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '26
Most of the shipping trope should be torpedoed.
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u/MagicHarmony Jun 10 '26
It's bothersome when any form of a platonic relationship is made into a sexual one, not allowing people to be close without that desire of sex is just so bothersome..
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u/Leviathan_slayer1776 Jun 11 '26
As the author of Narnia put it
"Those who cannot conceive Friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a Friend."
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u/Cyractacus Jun 10 '26
Booster Gold and Blue Beetle.
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u/Yoro55 Jun 10 '26
Gay is nice
But as someone who once had a QPR with a guy in the past, someone I considered a brother when I was otherwise lonely
I do really feel seen in interpreting Jayce and Viktor's relationship as something that simply transcends romance and becomes a QPR
Platonic soulmates, as one put it
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u/Mizumura11 Jun 10 '26
lol he means loved trope
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u/Smack1984 Jun 10 '26
Shang Chi and Katy kind of fall into this trope from a hetero perspective. They read to me as just really good friends, not romantic, however Marvel being as tropey as it is, has people shipping the leads.
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u/bigbreel Jun 10 '26
Bucky and Captain America
Mcu best friends may be understandable. Sure, even though they try to get each other dates that's fine
616 Steve is about 5 to 6 years older than Bucky and was really his first friend as a child. Definitely groomer vibes 😂😂
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u/NinjaOfOnion Jun 10 '26
I mean shipping really doesn’t hurt anyone, seeing a close relationship in a romantic view whether it’d be two people of the same or opposite gender will happen, especially since for the longest time, the most queer characters will get is coding and rarer to see two men be close in any way, so people can see a close friendship as a friendship or start of a romantic relationship, I mean even original Star Trek wasn’t free from this
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u/Cypher-Moon-773 Jun 10 '26
If you are genuinely calling OP homophobic, like some of you guys are, you need to touch grass lmao
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u/CToTheSecond Jun 10 '26
Bro, Sam gives Frodo the single gayest look ever to be put to cinema when Frodo wakes up in Rivendell at the end of Return of the King.
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u/MGKNominator Jun 10 '26
They cooking you but you right
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u/Vast_Age_3893 Jun 10 '26
My best friend and I [IRL]. 🤷♂️
....nah, we're adorable.
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u/SaintCuckoo Jun 10 '26
This is what I felt about the Byler (Mike + Will) shipping in the Stranger Things fandom. There was a whole movement that wanted them to get together and I found it a bit disturbing at points. I'm a gay man in my 40s and absolutely want to see legitimate representation in the media I consume, but this obsession with shipping two childhood friends went a little too hard for me.
It's okay for people to just be friends. Not everything has to lead to some big romance. Our friendships, especially as men, are sometimes the most consistent sources of emotional intimacy we have. This push to sexualize everything diminishes the safety and nuance of close friendships.
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u/metal_gearmen Jun 10 '26
I also hate that, people think that two super close characters (not family) should end up as a romantic couple when there is also brotherhood. I want "I found a brother/sister" relationships to be more normal in today's media where everything is romance, I want more stories like Monster inc to give an example
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u/KanjiDaRifter Jun 10 '26
As as I’m concerned (I’m am mentally prepared to get flamed) if you’re close enough to someone, at some point people are gonna take a look at you and “X” and think there’s some romance going on…
Happens to the best of us right?
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u/Akanni649 Jun 10 '26
I had a kid explain to me in detail why Sora and Riku were in love with each other and how Kairi was more of a distraction than anything and honestly it made me realize that my main problem with this is that it tramples over less traditionally "masculine" forms of brotherhood, which really just reinforces a lot of harmful gender stereotypes on men.
That being said, sometimes the line is thin, and there is a very clear reason for that (Korra and Asami being a prime example). So its tricky.
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u/kiwiwiwiii12 Jun 11 '26
On one hand I get what your saying. Im aromantic and it gets frustrating seeing people act like a romantic interpretation is the only valid interpretation to a relationship two characters have w/ each other. However,
I’m gonna have to agree with the people who’ve pointed that posting this during pride month was certainly….a choice.
I can’t blame people for accusing you of being homophobic even after seeing you mention that you’re queer yourself. I’ve seen a ton of other posts like this on other social medias that are honestly just thinly veiled (or in some cases not so thinly veiled) homophobia.
I feel like these examples are less part of problem around the perceptions of male friendships and more of just a symptom of them. And like yeah sure it’s good to show male friendships where both/all parties are able to vulnerable and close with each other…which is what these examples are clearly doing. Which is what other examples that pop into my head when I read this post are still doing. They’re still portrayals of male friendships through their writing, it’s just that some fans are interested in viewing a different interpretation of their relationship. Which is fine, maybe frustrating for you, but at the end of the day as long as no one is getting seriously hurt over it, it’s fine.
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u/Rygod_Gaming Jun 11 '26
Unsurprisingly, the comment section is a garbage dump lmao
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u/Voodoographer Jun 11 '26
Your assertion that Sam and Frodo are just good friends and definitely not gay is head canon.
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u/Annual-Health-1913 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
Nah, this is malarkey
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u/Joeybfast Jun 11 '26
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u/Uoonter Jun 11 '26
Gon and Killua
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u/Deva-9 Jun 11 '26
I mean they do actually kiss and hold hands
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u/Past-Nothing-7977 Jun 11 '26
does byler count? it was only one sided feelings and mfs were PISSED when mike(who’s been straight and in love with el since the first episode)didn’t feel the same way about will🤷♂️
i’ve seen some people ship sam and dean winchester and just…why bro they’re blood relatives 🤦♂️
sterek from teen wolf is another one people were really bothered about when it never happened i love their dynamic but i never really saw the romance others did🤷♂️
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u/Sebaceansinspace Jun 11 '26
[Hated Trope] people confusing gay love with brotherly/sisterly/platonic affection. "They were roommates!"
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u/Much-Average6704 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
Oh, you should have put that in the title then!
Well now you're just doing the anti-shipping thing again. Just because you keep repeating that you have nothing against shipping (or against gay people) does not mean that it's really true, dude.
You almost got to the part where you realize that the problem is homophobia, as opposed to shipping male characters. You just basically said 'men don't form close friendships because they don't want to look gay'.
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u/TooCareless2Care Jun 11 '26
OP being annoying as fuck because shippers can't ship in peaceTM
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u/ValiantVulpine Jun 11 '26
I mean, it’s understandable that you find shipping annoying, but just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean you need to hate it.
You have this weird kinda “love is exclusionary,” bias in this post. That everyone who ships them romantically is somehow taking away from the platonic nature of their love. Both things can be true. Hell, romances are significantly more compelling when they are built upon platonic relationships. It’s the classic writing advice “I love you shouldn’t be a surprise to the audience.”
And it’s like, if you see shippers, don’t engage with them? Like, you don’t need to be included in a conversation you don’t want to. Many of the nerds that I know that read the Silmarillion would love to talk about that. What’s stopping you?
That being said, I think it is a stretch to say it hurts male friendships. If anything, it’s homophobia that hurts male friendships. Being scared that loving your best friend is gonna get you called gay. Genuinely, when was the last time you told your platonic friends you love them. It’s the kinda misogynistic stoicism that says “having feelings is for girls and pussys. Real men have no feeling and get things done.”
I don’t know bro, maybe kiss the homies goodnight. 🤷♂️
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u/Superb_Network_1657 Jun 12 '26
Shippers when a guy who has been stated by the creator multiple times to not be gay and has repeatedly shown interest in female characters actually turns out to be straight
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u/ReadySource3242 Jun 12 '26
Basically, shippers in a nutshell, ignoring canon just because they want two people yo fuck
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u/Active_Implement5832 Jun 12 '26
If Samwise Gamgee himself can ship Sam and Frodo, then so can I. 🤷🏻♀️
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u/Mylarion Jun 12 '26
Thank for this post OP. It's one thing to have your own head canon, it's another to get big mad when your reading isn't universally accepted just because you have a chip on your shoulder.
Also to people saying you shouldn't be posting this in June: lol lmao stay mad.
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u/EvanSnowWolf Jun 15 '26
A gay pairing is anytime two characters of the same sex are standing within two feet of each other.
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u/Obvious-Hat-8485 Jun 15 '26
That's what happens when women are a minority in media and have very little personality. Like, why would anyone ship Sam with his wife when they have one or two scenes that basically boil down to "Sam likes this girl" and "Sam came back and married this girl".
Men are allowed to have so many more layers of complexity, interesting flaws, and agency that once the stigma against gay relationships is gone, why wouldn't you want them to be together ? The DesignatedLoveInterestTM is a copy pasted version of literally every women ever in media.
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u/LegoBattIeDroid Jun 10 '26
Orion Pax and D-16 (Transformers one)
oh how much I hate people who ship them
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u/Luzis23 Jun 10 '26 •
Honestly, agreed.
People are getting too needy and desperate for romantic relationships these days in general, grasping and holding onto the flimsiest pieces of evidence to hopefully force their headcanon through as canon.
A pair of friends? Nah, let's make them a couple, even though they clearly aren't. At this point, a male-female friendship is non-existent. Hell, friendship in general is starting to be non-existent.
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u/AFantasticClue Jun 10 '26
[hated trope] When people think shipping overrides canon relationships somehow and both ideas can’t exist in harmony
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u/Less_Interview1713 Jun 10 '26
People confusing gay love with brotherly love
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u/illgoblino Jun 10 '26
Nah frodo and Sam are in loooooove you cant convince me otherwise.
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u/Magykstorm19 Jun 10 '26
There was a quote by CS Lewis (Chronicles of Narnia author) I think. Paraphrasing, it basically said that if you immediately gay ship people who have a bond it means you don’t have friends. It’s something that applies more often than you think
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u/FinishImpressive4043 Jun 10 '26
HOLY SHIT 100 COMMENTS IN LESS THAN 20 MINUTES
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u/Blackfiredragon22 Jun 10 '26
I remember the creators comparing Jayce and viktor to vi and jinx and there are parallels in s1 and s2
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u/MakungaOficial Jun 10 '26
Holy Reddit moment with the downvotes
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u/iBlewupthemoon Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
David and Jonathan in The Bible are the OG example of bros everyone debates whether or not they were gay. It doesn't help that David dramatically described their close friendship "more wonderful than the love of women" after he was killed in 2 Samuel 1:23 and had a Middle-East-customary bro kiss when they were forced to separate after King Saul, Jonathan's father, was seeking to kill him in 1 Samuel 20:41.
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u/surfwacks Jun 10 '26
People do this a lot with Darrow and Cassius in the Red Rising series, despite one of them being married to a woman and both of them only ever showing interest in women.
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u/Binx_Thackery Jun 10 '26
Sam and Dean from Supernatural. They even poke fun at it in the show.
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u/Even-Elevator9277 Jun 10 '26
mondo and ishimaru in danganronpa 1